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Love the model and will buy, however, model wise, it does appears too expensive for what it is. The price should be closer to that of a Lord of Change or Bloodthirster.

This is a perfect illustration of the genius (such as it is) of GW's approach to pricing. A percentage of the customer base has become so normalized to the pricing that an already pretty substantially bullishly priced kit is used as frame of reference for what a large model should cost.

Just to illustrate, PP, a company who already attract a decent quantity of often justified criticism for sharp pricing, sell this model for $5 less than Mortarion.

@Azreal13 - could you put the giant image behind spoiler tags, please? It kinda breaks the page


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Scaled Mortarion and the PP Archangel to be in proportion.



So these two sets are at the same price point, right?

The resin & metal model that'll probably take some serious work to build and a young hobbyist will need supervision, and the plastic model that'll be way more user-friendly?

The bat wings with general cuts and the veined insect wings with organic holes?

The naked lizard - that does have interesting anatomy - and the intricately armoured warrior with dynamic chains?

One's bigger, ones got finer detail. One can have a preference for the visua style of either. But value? Bearing in mind how expensive plastic mounds are, and the low price of boxed games for what you get that you know is going to be made up with higher prices elsewhere, like an Xbox sold at a loss to get software sales?

I've said it before when I valued up my friend's late father in law's 56mm collection - toy soldiers is an expensive hobby, and for the level of detail, user friendliness, and creative use of elements to support dynamic poses, I don't feel any more ripped off by GW now than I did when I had the option of ten monopose tactical marines for £10 or £5 for three wonky lead bodies with bolters resting on open palms. Since then, a chocolate bar's gone from 25p to most of a pound - I'll bring an apple for lunch and keep the toys fund building up for my Kytan so I can bring a LOW to the next Black Crusade.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Love the model and will buy, however, model wise, it does appears too expensive for what it is. The price should be closer to that of a Lord of Change or Bloodthirster.

This is a perfect illustration of the genius (such as it is) of GW's approach to pricing. A percentage of the customer base has become so normalized to the pricing that an already pretty substantially bullishly priced kit is used as frame of reference for what a large model should cost.

Just to illustrate, PP, a company who already attract a decent quantity of often justified criticism for sharp pricing, sell this model for $5 less than Mortarion.

Normalized to the pricing? As if I should be getting large high quality models for much cheaper somewhere else? If not, what are you comparing their prices to? "Bullish" compared to what? The Privateer Press model you posted? I can only assume you were joking about about posting and comparing that Privateer Press model -because those models suck- I have a lot of them - yes they do - but seriously, please share on reasonably priced large models that are actually comparable as I would hate for GW to continue to rake me over the coals with their outlandish pricing just because I love the way their models look.

I like that pp model. On display i think it looks nicer. Morty has some fine details. Lotsa stuff to paint by the numbers. The pp model is more classic bone dragon. I like metal too. Especially big metal... Frankly I can't see explaining to my wife how I spent so much and the the two weeks to paint either so I will be buying neither but if I had to choose... Wouldn't be an easy decision.

No opinion across the board.

 Lance845 wrote:
Here is the problem with the price.

https://wargameexclusive.com/shop/chaos/chaos-mortuary-prime-winged-limited-edition/

Mortarion official is 140.00 USD

Mortuary Prime Winged is 47.00 USD

You can get a unwinged version for 5 less euros.

They are both roughly the same size in proportion. GW Morty stands taller because he is in the air. Morty unofficial is easy enough to convert into a flying pose if you so choose.

Do you like the official weapons/wings more? I bet with the 93.00 you are saving you can buy the bits off ebay and still not be paying close to the official price. You could get the unofficial model and have a massive budget for bits to customize and kit bash with. I am sure many will be buying official Morty. Good on you.

For half the cost you could be building your own bad ass morty and at about 1/3rd the cost just have one thats good enough and by that I mean pretty great.

If I had to choose between the three of them I would go with the exclusive model.
I like it more than the new gw model ... And have no display case worthy of that pp model.
Plus I am relatively poor.

Gw draws more criticism for sharp pricing then it does white knights. Most people however seem to have accepted the pricing as high (like me, I'll freely admit) or moved to cheaper alternatives be they second hand or stuff like wargameexclusive.

 lindsay40k wrote:
@Azreal13 - could you put the giant image behind spoiler tags, please? It kinda breaks the page

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Scaled Mortarion and the PP Archangel to be in proportion.



So these two sets are at the same price point, right?

The resin & metal model that'll probably take some serious work to build and a young hobbyist will need supervision, and the plastic model that'll be way more user-friendly?

The bat wings with general cuts and the veined insect wings with organic holes?

The naked lizard - that does have interesting anatomy - and the intricately armoured warrior with dynamic chains?

One's bigger, ones got finer detail. One can have a preference for the visua style of either. But value? Bearing in mind how expensive plastic mounds are, and the low price of boxed games for what you get that you know is going to be made up with higher prices elsewhere, like an Xbox sold at a loss to get software sales?

I've said it before when I valued up my friend's late father in law's 56mm collection - toy soldiers is an expensive hobby, and for the level of detail, user friendliness, and creative use of elements to support dynamic poses, I don't feel any more ripped off by GW now than I did when I had the option of ten monopose tactical marines for £10 or £5 for three wonky lead bodies with bolters resting on open palms. Since then, a chocolate bar's gone from 25p to most of a pound - I'll bring an apple for lunch and keep the toys fund building up for my Kytan so I can bring a LOW to the next Black Crusade.

Yeah..

You've either scaled the two images with a 32mm base Death Guard and a 50mm base Angelius.... So an error of approaching an extra 50% difference in size from your comparison, or a 100mm GW and 120mm PP base, so 20% at best.

Value is subjective, there's zero point in discussing it because everyone has their own line in the sand, but there are facts that can be compared, and a company that also attracts criticism for its pricing turning out a substantially larger model made from a more expensive per unit production method for less than GW are facts that can be objectively compared.

I'll also point out that GW choosing to make a model in plastic such that it dictates a certain price point means absolutely jack gak to me as a purchaser if that's price point is one I deem excessive. I'm familiar with the costing and production comparisons between the two methods, but at the end of the day if GW make the decision to use the production method that results in the increased RRP and that takes it beyond my desire/ability to pay, that's NMFP. I don't accept that I've got to pay extra elsewhere because some other product is cheaper (and, incidentally, still sold a total a profit by their own financials.)

As for "kids can assemble Mortarion more easily?" Like feth is a kid getting an £85 plastic kit if they're not a good enough modeller to tackle the Archangel unsupervised.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bach wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

Love the model and will buy, however, model wise, it does appears too expensive for what it is. The price should be closer to that of a Lord of Change or Bloodthirster.

This is a perfect illustration of the genius (such as it is) of GW's approach to pricing. A percentage of the customer base has become so normalized to the pricing that an already pretty substantially bullishly priced kit is used as frame of reference for what a large model should cost.

Just to illustrate, PP, a company who already attract a decent quantity of often justified criticism for sharp pricing, sell this model for $5 less than Mortarion.

Normalized to the pricing? As if I should be getting large high quality models for much cheaper somewhere else? If not, what are you comparing their prices to? "Bullish" compared to what? The Privateer Press model you posted?

Their own models. As has already been pointed out, Thanquol and Boneripper is a plastic model of an equivalent number of sprues and size that's is sold for just a tad over half the RRP of the Daemon Primarchs and a good chunk less than the plastic GDs.

I can only assume you were joking about about posting and comparing that Privateer Press model -because those models suck- I have a lot of them - yes they do - but seriously, please share on reasonably priced large models that are actually comparable as I would hate for GW to continue to rake me over the coals with their outlandish pricing just because I love the way their models look.

Subjective opinion is subjective, I happen to love the Archangel, just like I happen to love and dislike some other PP and GW models. I have models from all sorts of companies the drawback being that when GW drop a "premium even for them" model one tends to see it as more egregious because of all the other wonderful things that other people are making.

But that's the best part of collecting minis right now, there's loads of choice, and we're all free to exercise that choice. This isn't the 90s and we aren't talking consoles, or, for people more my era, Amiga vs ST or C64 vs Speccie.

61% of current respondents feel that pricing is unreasonable.
63% of current respondents are skipping the release regardless.

@Azreal13 - I was working from the 100mm and 120mm bases

 Azreal13 wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
@Azreal13 - could you put the giant image behind spoiler tags, please? It kinda breaks the page

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Scaled Mortarion and the PP Archangel to be in proportion.



So these two sets are at the same price point, right?

The resin & metal model that'll probably take some serious work to build and a young hobbyist will need supervision, and the plastic model that'll be way more user-friendly?

The bat wings with general cuts and the veined insect wings with organic holes?

The naked lizard - that does have interesting anatomy - and the intricately armoured warrior with dynamic chains?

One's bigger, ones got finer detail. One can have a preference for the visua style of either. But value? Bearing in mind how expensive plastic mounds are, and the low price of boxed games for what you get that you know is going to be made up with higher prices elsewhere, like an Xbox sold at a loss to get software sales?

I've said it before when I valued up my friend's late father in law's 56mm collection - toy soldiers is an expensive hobby, and for the level of detail, user friendliness, and creative use of elements to support dynamic poses, I don't feel any more ripped off by GW now than I did when I had the option of ten monopose tactical marines for £10 or £5 for three wonky lead bodies with bolters resting on open palms. Since then, a chocolate bar's gone from 25p to most of a pound - I'll bring an apple for lunch and keep the toys fund building up for my Kytan so I can bring a LOW to the next Black Crusade.

Yeah..

You've either scaled the two images with a 32mm base Death Guard and a 50mm base Angelius.... So an error of approaching an extra 50% difference in size from your comparison, or a 100mm GW and 120mm PP base, so 20% at best.

Value is subjective, there's zero point in discussing it because everyone has their own line in the sand, but there are facts that can be compared, and a company that also attracts criticism for its pricing turning out a substantially larger model made from a more expensive per unit production method for less than GW are facts that can be objectively compared.

I'll also point out that GW choosing to make a model in plastic such that it dictates a certain price point means absolutely jack gak to me as a purchaser if that's price point is one I deem excessive. I'm familiar with the costing and production comparisons between the two methods, but at the end of the day if GW make the decision to use the production method that results in the increased RRP and that takes it beyond my desire/ability to pay, that's NMFP. I don't accept that I've got to pay extra elsewhere because some other product is cheaper (and, incidentally, still sold a total a profit by their own financials.)

As for "kids can assemble Mortarion more easily?" Like feth is a kid getting an £85 plastic kit if they're not a good enough modeller to tackle the Archangel unsupervised.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bach wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

Love the model and will buy, however, model wise, it does appears too expensive for what it is. The price should be closer to that of a Lord of Change or Bloodthirster.

This is a perfect illustration of the genius (such as it is) of GW's approach to pricing. A percentage of the customer base has become so normalized to the pricing that an already pretty substantially bullishly priced kit is used as frame of reference for what a large model should cost.

Just to illustrate, PP, a company who already attract a decent quantity of often justified criticism for sharp pricing, sell this model for $5 less than Mortarion.

Normalized to the pricing? As if I should be getting large high quality models for much cheaper somewhere else? If not, what are you comparing their prices to? "Bullish" compared to what? The Privateer Press model you posted?

Their own models. As has already been pointed out, Thanquol and Boneripper is a plastic model of an equivalent number of sprues and size that's is sold for just a tad over half the RRP of the Daemon Primarchs and a good chunk less than the plastic GDs.

Your comparable, if you are trying to use GW's own models, is off. Thanquol and Boneripper is a little larger than a helbrute which, although bulky, is considerably smaller than Mortarion or Bloodthirster/LoC, for that matter. See below -






That conversion uses Tau plasma guns, which are fairly small but knowing the size of the plasma gun, that base that the Thanquol is on is around a 60mm. I just got Mortarion today and judged the Tau plasma gun ( I have lots of Tau) to the new model - and the Tau plasma gun is around the same length as Morty's Lantern pistol. When you compare this Thanquol conversion and see the plasma guns (which are actually cut down to 3/4 length), and then know those plasma guns are around the same length as the Lantern from the Mortarion Model, it's obvious that Mortarion is much larger, meaning a Bloodthirster and /LoC are also larger than Thanqoul.

So why again are you trying to compare smaller models to larger ones when trying to say that the larger ones are too expensive? And it's not just about size either, as a fair argument can be made that the sculpts and intricacy of Mortarion/Bloodthirster/LoCs are substantially better than that of Thanquol. How important is sprue count when built models coming out of the same size sprues can vary in detail, size, and intricacy? I think we can agree that the expense to develop and market the Thanqoul model was probably less than the expense to develop and market Mortarion.

Unfortunately it's difficult to draw comparisons between models currently produced without side by side comparison shots. The scheme which Games Workshop use simply doesn't do Mortarion justice, the model strikes a balance with masses of detail without suffering overcrowding. No easy task.

Pricing is relative. It's clear that in the UK the price is somewhat more palatable to most than in other countries but (by the sounds of it) this isn't an exclusive issue with Mortarion but more GW in general. When it comes to pricing in relation to the actual contents of the box, any observations here are speculative at best without industry knowledge.

I've seen alternative production methods mentioned and while there are some absolutely incredible models/miniatures out there manufactured with resin and similar materials, this is simply not a strong point of GW based off their previous endeavours with resin (finecast). While Forge World specialise in resin this comes at a premium and the quality control is widely reported to vary dramatically.

So why again are you trying to compare smaller models to larger ones when trying to say that the larger ones are too expensive? And it's not just about size either, as a fair argument can be made that the sculpts and intricacy of Mortarion/Bloodthirster/LoCs are substantially better than that of Thanquol. How important is sprue count when built models coming out of the same size sprues can vary in detail, size, and intricacy? I think we can agree that the expense to develop and market the Thanqoul model was probably less than the expense to develop and market Mortarion.

The sprue count is everything, each sprue represents a die being designed and machined and is the biggest cost of plastic kit production. The detail, amount of plastic etc is all largely incidental, the cost of producing a sprue that consists of just the frame and one laden with parts isn't miles apart (there'd be increased time on the milling machine when creating the die, and a small increased raw material cost, that's about it.) Plastic costs very little, so including more plastic makes very little difference to the production costs and is only a tiny fraction of the RRP.

There's also extra time needed to design a more complex kit, but as GW design staff are all on salary, there's no actual material increase in money spent, only opportunity cost in the sense they can only work on one thing at a time.

So no, there was likely very little difference in £££ cost between making Thanquol and Boneripper or Mortarion, and the time spent, while a quantifiable "cost" won't have been hugely detrimental to GW's output (the real cost of time spent) as their studio is pretty well staffed.

But yes, I'll happily concede that Mortarion was the more expensive model to make, just by far, far less than the difference in RRP can justify.

I'm just planning to use this guy as Morty when i feel like i need him.

That is a tiiiiiiiiny morty wierdjunson. You might want to get a 100mm base and build up a giant tower of skulls or something for him to stand on to get even close to the footprint of Morty.

The price is what they think the market will bear. That's it. Rationalising it by materials cost or which is more expensive to design is to miss the point. They pick a price point which will maximise the profit without reducing sales too much, like every other business on Earth.

 wierdjunson wrote:
I'm just planning to use this guy as Morty when i feel like i need him.

As the base is smaller than the official model, and as measurements are from/to the base, then yeah, you might want to put that on a larger base.
Otherwise, sure, I think that model is cool!

Costs the same as a Knight, looks cooler than a Knight.

I see no issue with this model. I don't care about the volume of plastic that went into making the model, it's a superheavy for my Nurgle stuff, and costs the same as a close sized superheavy for a different army. Also $10 off magnus price, and I think mortarion's pose and detail migh higher quality, making it worth it.

Knight titans used to be the go-to gotta have it in my army model. Now it is primarchs.