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Female Marines keep coming up because it's apparently Feminist 40k's main contention with the setting. They don't seem to care about anything else, they want female Marines and will not rest until they get them.

And apparently the lack of female Marine models is proof that GW and all of us who play the game are all sexist misogynists who are all conspiring to keep women and minorities out of the hobby.

Oh, and of course the few female models we do have are obviously all "problematic" in some way. Sisters of Battle are "fetishized", Sisters of Silence have boobplate, Escher wear crop tops and high-heels, etc.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Female Marines keep coming up because it's apparently Feminist 40k's main contention with the setting. They don't seem to care about anything else, they want female Marines and will not rest until they get them.

And apparently the lack of female Marine models is proof that GW and all of us who play the game are all sexist misogynists who are all conspiring to keep women and minorities out of the hobby.

Oh, and of course the few female models we do have are obviously all "problematic" in some way. Sisters of Battle are "fetishized", Sisters of Silence have boobplate, Escher wear crop tops and high-heels, etc.

Well if you put it like that it does sound a bit odd. We have only just got a few female Stormcast models in AOS - again loads in the fluff for all factions

The postmodern neo-marxist ...cult (there is no better word for it) is the biggest thread to western liberal democracy that has ever existed.
Fascism has lost already. Probably because it lost the war.
Marxism has the benefit of being the victor over fascism despite being worse. Both ideologically and in scale of devastation it has caused.

They will infect everything.
Girlmarines are just the tip of the iceberg. They will come and tell you that you cannot run a company -be it your LGS- if you are one of the following things:
-male
-white
-straight

Because if you are one of that or -shudder- multiple you are by identity politics driven definition a racist oppressive patriarcist.
You also charge girls more for their models. Cause.... [offers no evidence] ... it is true!

You have two choices:
Get used to and complicit
Or
Speak up.

Btw.
The funniest thing is that in China the term "white leftist" is used a an insult. In communist china, LOL.
They hated the new Star Wars for its SJW narrative so much that it got pulled from theatres. XD

Oh the irony tastes so great!

 combatcotton wrote:
The postmodern neo-marxist ...cult (there is no better word for it) is the biggest thread to western liberal democracy that has ever existed.
Fascism has lost already. Probably because it lost the war.
Marxism has the benefit of being the victor over fascism despite being worse. Both ideologically and in scale of devastation it has caused.

They will infect everything.
Girlmarines are just the tip of the iceberg. They will come and tell you that you cannot run a company -be it your LGS- if you are one of the following things:
-male
-white
-straight

Because if you are one of that or -shudder- multiple you are by identity politics driven definition a racist oppressive patriarcist.
You also charge girls more for their models. Cause.... [offers no evidence] ... it is true!

You have two choices:
Get used to and complicit
Or
Speak up.

Btw.
The funniest thing is that in China the term "white leftist" is used a an insult. In communist china, LOL.
They hated the new Star Wars for its SJW narrative so much that it got pulled from theatres. XD

Oh the irony tastes so great!

......
Yeah, I am stop lurking this thread otherwise my palm may be imprinted on my face forever

 Selym wrote:
Indeed. It would be difficult to identify with Nids or Orks.

I identify quite well with Nids around lunchtime at the Buffet.

Also I am amazed this post managed to survive this long... Given this is very US politics in tabletop gaming.

Though as for a solution... And no, Female Space Marines is not one.

Add female heads for: Imperial Guard, Eldar (unhelmeted and otherwise), Inquisitors, Adeptas Mechanicus (Difficult to tell when you are as upgraded as they are, but should have a few within the ranks), Imperial Agents (Female psykers and the like), genestealer cult. (Are they all male in the later generations..? I can't honestly remember too well)

Don't forget some for Renegades and Heretics, cultists and the like.

The thing is we all want these models (aside from FeMarines) but even if GW made them they'd still be a long while off being released.

If we look at it even optimistically we'd need to wait for plastic Cadians to get an update which won't be for a while. Like 2019 at the earliest and thats assuming they started working on them last year. Its even less likely that they'd make female Marine because it would pull focus away from expanding the presumably extensivly planned Primaris line. The production time it would take to implement and release the female models people are asking for is probably longer than their attention span is willing to stick around for.

The only female models I can see realistically being added to the range any time soon is within the Eldar aspect warrior lines. If we want to venture into the realm of wishful thinking we can hope Sisters will get an update at the end of the current codex cycle as a celebration type release. Like "yay, everyone has a codex for 8th and heres some plastic SoBs now shut up about them."

I think at the core of it people get two categories confused:

1) out of touch, post modernist, cult like, weird liberal arts degree feminists who hate men and want to destroy all things patriarchal

2) normal everyday people who like comfortable familiar narratives and structure and lap stuff like blindly adding characters who have "female" as an attribute, are vaguely angry at sexism, etc.

Category 2 can be imagined to be part of category 1, but they simply aren't. They're just extremely numerous and like things they are familiar with and stories they know and like.

And it's true in previously nerd focused franchises that can make the reach for the masses, you will see characters blindly swapped time women for no reason other than to get normal people to cheer and go "wooo #girl power!!" See movies, some very mainstream video games, etc. That's not an attempt by. Corporation to appeal to category 1 people, that's a stab at the millions of category 2 average normal folks. Not every change to normalize a setting is "feminist", just the ones you notice.

There are franchises that are safe, though, and 40k is one of them. Normal people simply will not commit the time or money to commit to 40k. Same reason normalizing comics didn't work - have you ever tried to buy and follow comics? It's both massively expensive for what you get and ridiculously confusing. Going to a movie is comparatively zero commitment, which is why star wars has been normalized extremely successfully (and it has been if you're being at all honest with yourself. Both new star wars movies are comfortably in the top 10 most successful films of all time. That does not a "dying" franchise make).

Sure. GW could pull a Disney and try to cram 40k into the normal space unsiccessfully but the situation is very different. Gw does not have two business branches, one which chugs along raking in billions upon billions of dollars and one which barely seems to do anything at all. It was a natural thought to ask "why can't I make this second thing more like this first thing?"

That's not how GW is operating. Look at their marketing. "Hey, remember this great thing from 25 years ago?" Is not a company coming for the mass market. Gw knows that their customers are heavily financially committed weirdos. Feminist 40k does not have the numbers behind them that Feminist Star Wars has. And as long as the hobby is about buying extremely expensive plastic models and painting them for hours before playing a weird nerdy game with them, that will stay that way.

 combatcotton wrote:
The postmodern neo-marxist ...cult (there is no better word for it) is the biggest thread to western liberal democracy that has ever existed.
Fascism has lost already. Probably because it lost the war.
Marxism has the benefit of being the victor over fascism despite being worse. Both ideologically and in scale of devastation it has caused.

They will infect everything.
Girlmarines are just the tip of the iceberg. They will come and tell you that you cannot run a company -be it your LGS- if you are one of the following things:
-male
-white
-straight

Because if you are one of that or -shudder- multiple you are by identity politics driven definition a racist oppressive patriarcist.
You also charge girls more for their models. Cause.... [offers no evidence] ... it is true!

You have two choices:
Get used to and complicit
Or
Speak up.

Btw.
The funniest thing is that in China the term "white leftist" is used a an insult. In communist china, LOL.
They hated the new Star Wars for its SJW narrative so much that it got pulled from theatres. XD

Oh the irony tastes so great!

Never thought I'd see the day where a modern German defended nazism.

Erased a poorly thought out post.

I'm not sure he's saying Nazism was good, just better than Marxism. Either way, I think the mods are asleep.

 Mmmpi wrote:

 combatcotton wrote:
The postmodern neo-marxist ...cult (there is no better word for it) is the biggest thread to western liberal democracy that has ever existed.
Fascism has lost already. Probably because it lost the war.
Marxism has the benefit of being the victor over fascism despite being worse. Both ideologically and in scale of devastation it has caused.

They will infect everything.
Girlmarines are just the tip of the iceberg. They will come and tell you that you cannot run a company -be it your LGS- if you are one of the following things:
-male
-white
-straight

Because if you are one of that or -shudder- multiple you are by identity politics driven definition a racist oppressive patriarcist.
You also charge girls more for their models. Cause.... [offers no evidence] ... it is true!

You have two choices:
Get used to and complicit
Or
Speak up.

Btw.
The funniest thing is that in China the term "white leftist" is used a an insult. In communist china, LOL.
They hated the new Star Wars for its SJW narrative so much that it got pulled from theatres. XD

Oh the irony tastes so great!

Never thought I'd see the day where a modern German defended nazism.

There's a ton wrong with everything you just said. But civility and the forum rules prevent me from tell you just how wrong you are, and just how much I hate you.

Well, humanity doesn't change so quickly. Just be on the other side of the fence next time it comes along.

 GuardStrider wrote:
I am way more bothered by the weird paranoia of some people who keep shouting about some imaginary feminist conspiracy, which honestly act way more aggressive and vocal about their ideas than actual feminists.

Absolutely. This internet anti-feminist movement is absolutely surreal. I really cannot understand how so many people can succumb to such senseless paranoia. "Oh no, they gave a girl a lightsabre, everything is ruined!"

 Mmmpi wrote:

 combatcotton wrote:
The postmodern neo-marxist ...cult (there is no better word for it) is the biggest thread to western liberal democracy that has ever existed.
Fascism has lost already. Probably because it lost the war.
Marxism has the benefit of being the victor over fascism despite being worse. Both ideologically and in scale of devastation it has caused.

They will infect everything.
Girlmarines are just the tip of the iceberg. They will come and tell you that you cannot run a company -be it your LGS- if you are one of the following things:
-male
-white
-straight

Because if you are one of that or -shudder- multiple you are by identity politics driven definition a racist oppressive patriarcist.
You also charge girls more for their models. Cause.... [offers no evidence] ... it is true!

You have two choices:
Get used to and complicit
Or
Speak up.

Btw.
The funniest thing is that in China the term "white leftist" is used a an insult. In communist china, LOL.
They hated the new Star Wars for its SJW narrative so much that it got pulled from theatres. XD

Oh the irony tastes so great!

Never thought I'd see the day where a modern German defended nazism.

There's a ton wrong with everything you just said. But civility and the forum rules prevent me from tell you just how wrong you are, and just how much I hate you.

How is this in any way a defence of Nazism?

Saying that it lost because of the war? Factually true. It was a popular idea around Europe before it was proven insane by WW2 and the Holocaust. Had Germany won, we would likely not be living in democracies right now.
Saying that it is better than Marxism? Opinion, but it's not like Marxist-based regimes have ever ended well.

And it's not like the brand of Feminism to which combatcotton is referring does not exist, or has no presence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

 GuardStrider wrote:
I am way more bothered by the weird paranoia of some people who keep shouting about some imaginary feminist conspiracy, which honestly act way more aggressive and vocal about their ideas than actual feminists.

Absolutely. This internet anti-feminist movement is absolutely surreal. I really cannot understand how so many people can succumb to such senseless paranoia. "Oh no, they gave a girl a lightsabre, everything is ruined!"

You have to be reeealllly unfamiliar with the whole thing if that's your view on it. Anyways, calling the mods in on this. I think we're done here.

 combatcotton wrote:
The postmodern neo-marxist ...cult (there is no better word for it) is the biggest thread to western liberal democracy that has ever existed.
Fascism has lost already. Probably because it lost the war.
Marxism has the benefit of being the victor over fascism despite being worse. Both ideologically and in scale of devastation it has caused.

They will infect everything.
Girlmarines are just the tip of the iceberg. They will come and tell you that you cannot run a company -be it your LGS- if you are one of the following things:
-male
-white
-straight

Because if you are one of that or -shudder- multiple you are by identity politics driven definition a racist oppressive patriarcist.
You also charge girls more for their models. Cause.... [offers no evidence] ... it is true!

You have two choices:
Get used to and complicit
Or
Speak up.

Btw.
The funniest thing is that in China the term "white leftist" is used a an insult. In communist china, LOL.
They hated the new Star Wars for its SJW narrative so much that it got pulled from theatres. XD

Oh the irony tastes so great!

The Star Wars film was fething awful full stop and did not notice any SJW elements to be honest just bad writting, direction, pacing.......

To be fair GW has ignoed its own lore and fluff in focussing so much on almost exclusively male charcters for the tabletop.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I'm not sure he's saying Nazism was good, just better than Marxism. Either way, I think the mods are asleep.

Let's just say I've been spending too much time on political forums and I let my mouth run. While I don't nessissarily agree with your assestment of what he said, I will edit my answer.

Thanks for pointing out my stupid.

Eldar guardians have 2 female torsos in their kit, why is it so hard for GW to do the same in the basic troop box for IG, SM(scouts beeing the option there) harlequins and tau?

That plus a release of plastic SoB and a expansion of SoS would silence majority of the feminist complaining about 40K

 Selym wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

 combatcotton wrote:
The postmodern neo-marxist ...cult (there is no better word for it) is the biggest thread to western liberal democracy that has ever existed.
Fascism has lost already. Probably because it lost the war.
Marxism has the benefit of being the victor over fascism despite being worse. Both ideologically and in scale of devastation it has caused.

They will infect everything.
Girlmarines are just the tip of the iceberg. They will come and tell you that you cannot run a company -be it your LGS- if you are one of the following things:
-male
-white
-straight

Because if you are one of that or -shudder- multiple you are by identity politics driven definition a racist oppressive patriarcist.
You also charge girls more for their models. Cause.... [offers no evidence] ... it is true!

You have two choices:
Get used to and complicit
Or
Speak up.

Btw.
The funniest thing is that in China the term "white leftist" is used a an insult. In communist china, LOL.
They hated the new Star Wars for its SJW narrative so much that it got pulled from theatres. XD

Oh the irony tastes so great!

Never thought I'd see the day where a modern German defended nazism.

There's a ton wrong with everything you just said. But civility and the forum rules prevent me from tell you just how wrong you are, and just how much I hate you.

How is this in any way a defence of Nazism?

Saying that it lost because of the war? Factually true. It was a popular idea around Europe before it was proven insane by WW2 and the Holocaust. Had Germany won, we would likely not be living in democracies right now.
Saying that it is better than Marxism? Opinion, but it's not like Marxist-based regimes have ever ended well.

And it's not like the brand of Feminism to which combatcotton is referring does not exist, or has no presence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

 GuardStrider wrote:
I am way more bothered by the weird paranoia of some people who keep shouting about some imaginary feminist conspiracy, which honestly act way more aggressive and vocal about their ideas than actual feminists.

Absolutely. This internet anti-feminist movement is absolutely surreal. I really cannot understand how so many people can succumb to such senseless paranoia. "Oh no, they gave a girl a lightsabre, everything is ruined!"

You have to be reeealllly unfamiliar with the whole thing if that's your view on it. Anyways, calling the mods in on this. I think we're done here.

"my right to free speech and discussion is being suppressed by the feminists! I demand an open conversation about the positives and negatives of a given philosophy, not just shutting down the conversation any time it goes somewhere people are uncomfortable with!"

*Open conversation about the positives and negatives of a given philosophy starts*

"MOOOOOOOOOOOODS!"

shortymcnostrill wrote:
As far as humans are concerned we have an all male faction (sm), an all female faction (sob) and a mixed one (ig). This could be balanced enough*. I do think it's unfortunate that the poster boy faction that gets promoted and expanded over all else is the boys only faction, this kind of skews these proportions.

This is indeed the problem. If the factions that are actually supposed to be mixed gender were represented in model form as such, and if those factions, as well as SoB, had equal spotlight to marines, then the marines being all male wouldn't really be a problem. But this is not the case.

 Selym wrote:

Saying that it lost because of the war? Factually true. It was a popular idea around Europe before it was proven insane by WW2 and the Holocaust. Had Germany won, we would likely not be living in democracies right now.
Saying that it is better than Marxism? Opinion, but it's not like Marxist-based regimes have ever ended well.

The actual regimes you're talking about were pretty far from the ideology of philosophies they were supposed to be based on.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Eldar guardians have 2 female torsos in their kit, why is it so hard for GW to do the same in the basic troop box for IG, SM(scouts beeing the option there) harlequins and tau?

That plus a release of plastic SoB and a expansion of SoS would silence majority of the feminist complaining about 40K

IG: Yep, would love to see that.

Tau: Already in there, Tau females just don't look super different than tau males (hint: Look at the forehead thingy)

Harlequins: Ditto, I think there are actually 5 female torsos in a 7-model troupe box?

SM Scouts: Still space marines, so you'd have to change the canon first which most people are against.

the_scotsman wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Eldar guardians have 2 female torsos in their kit, why is it so hard for GW to do the same in the basic troop box for IG, SM(scouts beeing the option there) harlequins and tau?

That plus a release of plastic SoB and a expansion of SoS would silence majority of the feminist complaining about 40K

IG: Yep, would love to see that.

Tau: Already in there, Tau females just don't look super different than tau males (hint: Look at the forehead thingy)

Harlequins: Ditto, I think there are actually 5 female torsos in a 7-model troupe box?

SM Scouts: Still space marines, so you'd have to change the canon first which most people are against.

Also:

Cultists - both Chaos and GSC
Ad Mech

 Selym wrote:

You have to be reeealllly unfamiliar with the whole thing if that's your view on it. Anyways, calling the mods in on this. I think we're done here.

Oh trust me, I'm not unfamiliar with any of this, I just strongly disagree with you.

Also, you're calling mods to close your own thread when people disagree with you? You have a problem with free speech now?

No, I think I'm a large part in why the mods got called.

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Eldar guardians have 2 female torsos in their kit, why is it so hard for GW to do the same in the basic troop box for IG, SM(scouts beeing the option there) harlequins and tau?

That plus a release of plastic SoB and a expansion of SoS would silence majority of the feminist complaining about 40K

IG: Yep, would love to see that.

Tau: Already in there, Tau females just don't look super different than tau males (hint: Look at the forehead thingy)

Harlequins: Ditto, I think there are actually 5 female torsos in a 7-model troupe box?

SM Scouts: Still space marines, so you'd have to change the canon first which most people are against.

Also:

Cultists - both Chaos and GSC
Ad Mech

Admech do technically have half the soldiers wearing different metal crotchpieces. I figure that's probably the only, ah, "organic feature" the adeptus mechanicus would leave intact (gotta make more skitarii somehow!) and so you are free to consider that the gender defining feature of a Skitarii.

Cultists and GSC...yep. There's really no good excuse in some of those monobuild or essentially monobuild kits where it would take exactly zero effort to have a female chaos cultist, kairic acolyte, or poxwalker. It gets a little ludicrous when you try to justify it in lore terms

"Ah, see, the genestealer cult would all look male because they're weird mutants, even the ones who are supposed to look indistinguishable from humans, weird mutants so they are all male."

"No, the chaos cultists are all male because...women wouldn't fall for the...cult?"

"Clearly what we have here is an...um...planet full of dudes who got infected with this zombie virus, and so only...only dudes became zombies...yep..."

 Crimson wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
As far as humans are concerned we have an all male faction (sm), an all female faction (sob) and a mixed one (ig). This could be balanced enough*. I do think it's unfortunate that the poster boy faction that gets promoted and expanded over all else is the boys only faction, this kind of skews these proportions.

This is indeed the problem. If the factions that are actually supposed to be mixed gender were represented in model form as such, and if those factions, as well as SoB, had equal spotlight to marines, then the marines being all male wouldn't really be a problem. But this is not the case.

Agreed and well said

To be frank, the Femininst movement has a lot better things to worry about than whether GW include some female bodies in their IG kits.

Like equal pay, sexual assault, pension rights, and so on.

I think we're done here.