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Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Speaking of weirdboy powers, where's zzapp? Wasn't that a basic offensive weirdboy power? Strange how it didn't make that in.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy




Douglasville, GA

I think they just use Smite for it now. Or 'Eadbanga, judging from the flavour text.
   
Made in ca
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





I'm more surprised they took out power vomit, though tbf, that's also something that can be covered by smite.

My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
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It's actually a good thing they're taking out generic attack spells. They are a big annoyance in AoS magic. 1001 ways to cause D3 mortal wounds isn't an efficient use of rulebook space.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/22 23:48:32


Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
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 lord_blackfang wrote:
It's actually a good thing they're taking out generic attack spells. They are a big annoyance in AoS magic. 1001 ways to cause D3 mortal wounds isn't an efficient use of rulebook space.


True. I was sort of surprised they didn't do the same thing to smite as they did to arcane bolt, where instead of limiting its casting to one per hero phase, to becoming progressively harder to cast like smite. That way you don't need all the different mortal wound spell variants for each faction.

My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
Made in de
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I see little point discussing in this 'tactics' thread if you're just gong to offhand dismiss other people's opinions because they are different to your own.

Ok, let's take on each of your arguments one by one.
Snazzwagons, as stated above, have a far greater potential threat range when compared to KBBs

While this is technically true, staying at that range makes the Snazzwagon a not worth its points at all and and almost exactly as shooty as the squig buggy (but still 40 points less). It's killing 3 GEQ, 2 Marines or deals 1 damage to a vehicle, not a great deal for 100 points. Why should I want that in my list? On the other hand, driving in 6" range to throw the burna bombs and charge almost doubles its damage output.
and they explode on a 4+ which seems to be the majority of the reason you'd take he more expensive Burna bomber.

The burna bommer explodes on a 4+ and does three (!) mortal wounds to all targets within the explosion range. If the snazzwagon had that, it would be right up there with the other buggies. Alas, it does not and therefore spending 1 CP to re-roll that one mortal wound is rarely worth it. Spending those CP on ramming speed on any vehicle of your choice is a more efficient to deal mortal wounds. You also assume that you are hanging back for most of your arguments, making the 4+ a drawback rather than an advantage.
They also have a native -1 to hit so are more tanky at range.

Assuming someone wants to shoot the buggy hanging back and struggling to kill more than a single primaris marine. -1 to hit is an advantage, but not that much on a unit that needs to be in 6" range to justify its points.
Another unit that also has -1 to hit, shoots twice as often, is faster, has higher range, strength and more wounds is the dakkajet - for just 48 points more than the snazzwagon.
I disagreed with you in the last discussion and I disagree with you here (along with Smiley it seems like).

If you don't like our opinions that's fine but basing it on a flawed damage per point against chaff ratio and claiming it as gospel is bogus.

Instead of "I disagree", "you need to accept my opinion" and "your math is flawed" provide some actual arguments to convince me. Provide math for where the snazzwagon actually outperforms other options. Provide battle reports of them doing great things. Provide army lists of people winning tournaments with them.
Provide something at all. Currently I have no reason to believe your opinion is anything but the strong wish to make a model you adore seem like a good competitive option.

Just because you don't like the results of the math doesn't make it wrong. You were the one claiming that the snazzwagon is awesome at clearing chaff, and I proved that to be wrong. Now you claim that calculation to be flawed? That's dishonest at best.
The KBB is better against GEQ, MEQ and vehicles when close up, and when hanging back you basically get worse dakka jets (probably even when not hanging back). Being able to switch from being a bad KBB to being a bad dakkajet at will isn't exactly and advantage either.
As of now, I see no reason to ever take a snazzwagon over other options, therefore players should avoid getting it for purely competitive reasons. Make a compelling argument for them why they should be above red and I will move them.

Something a bit more lighthearted, I actually did the math to compare the snazzwagon to the stompa... yeah, the stompa definitely needs its own category. Two snazzwagons outshoot a stompa vs single wound infantry, nine snazzwagons are better than a stompa against every possible target and still less points.
A key for the ranking system would also be useful.

Awesome-good-ok-situational-avoid? These rainbow tables have been around on dakka longer than me. It's not meant to be scientific data.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/11/23 00:23:47


Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





So where do our good ol Warbosses fit in now? After Jumping/tellyporting boyz into the thick, the bosses are left far behind... I don't really feel like going index bike boss route.
   
Made in au
Fully-charged Electropriest






Varying cities in the North

I haven't managed to play the codex yet (dammit life), and I'm liking the look of Orks. Offensive anti-armour options look great, but what are people finding best to clear screens? Is it still Dakkajets or Bad Moons shootaboyz?

Also I'm pretty sure I want to run at least one of the new buggies for my Evil Sunz, but people keep proving them to be subpar in here? Are any of them worthwhile?

   
Made in de
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





 Sledgio wrote:
I haven't managed to play the codex yet (dammit life), and I'm liking the look of Orks. Offensive anti-armour options look great, but what are people finding best to clear screens? Is it still Dakkajets or Bad Moons shootaboyz?

Also I'm pretty sure I want to run at least one of the new buggies for my Evil Sunz, but people keep proving them to be subpar in here? Are any of them worthwhile?


If you are looking for screen clearers, there are dakka jets, flash gits, warbikers, kustom boosta blasta and shoota boyz.
If you are aiming for a thematic evil suns army, maybe get the speed freaks box, both buggies in there are decent and you get warbikes for screen clearing. If you don't need bikes, the buggies are easily found on ebay for roughly the same price as the other ones.

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So where do our good ol Warbosses fit in now? After Jumping/tellyporting boyz into the thick, the bosses are left far behind... I don't really feel like going index bike boss route.


For me they are battallion HQ fillers. 3 weirdboys, need 1 or 3 HQ still(generally 3). Trike too expensive to spam, mega armour big meks as well. Can't rely on index being available so leaves warbosses. At least 1 tends to stay near lootas and their grots. Keep grot morale, can help with loota morale and of course they can be used to counter attack anything that comes nearby.

But yeah two big change in codex were that morale became actually issue for boyz and warbosses became bit of oddball. I have yet to actually use the advance+charge rule yet with the codex.

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

You don't lead the charge with your supply vehicles, after all.

Unless you are orks
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy




Douglasville, GA

Most units have Mob Rule now, short of Grots and Vehicles, so I'm assuming "morale is an issue now" because boy blobz aren't the only viable list anymore.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 flandarz wrote:
Most units have Mob Rule now, short of Grots and Vehicles, so I'm assuming "morale is an issue now" because boy blobz aren't the only viable list anymore.


Issue is there's much less boyz and with teleport could even be on different areas. Rather than 5 units side by side you have 2, 3 units. Even if you have 2 units of 30 boyz near what happens when enemy shoots 15 from both as would be smart move? 30 orks total is dirt easy. That's like half the firepower from 2k gunline. 15 dead from both=15 left for both=LD15 for both=d6 casualties for both=2d6 casualties=7 more dies. Oh and less of a worry that you kill up more than there were targets so rather than 30 dead you could kill say 16 and 17 plus morale.... And attacks coming down compared to simply shooting one unit to death goes from 120(one full unit still left) to 69(unit of 12 and 11 so not only less boyz in total but no +1 for numbers). Ergo smart opponent will aim to kill roughly half from 2 units rather than vaporize one squad unless very specific reason exists. And if they are on same area next to each other such reason is less likely to exists than if they were on separate areas(at which point saving one enemy unit by vaporizing unit threatening it and leaving other as bigger threat but around less crucial units could be good trade off). This happened to me all the time in index where enemy shot at two units so that one of them would have no 30 strong mob providing LD so one would generally take extra casualties. With codex as there's no more 5-6 units of 30 having such interlocking protection is much harder. And utilizing tellyporta to attack stuff tends to make it even harder.

Before there was likely 3rd unit so at least one would be on LD30. Or if you had the 3rd unit behind both BOTH had LD30.

And this assuming the 2-3 units deepstrike on same area which of course then means there's less units you can then engage with.

Just look at the lists you see. Much less boyz units. 2-3 units are much less resilient to the morale. Having big damage on 2 units causing failed morale test for both is much more easy than it used to be.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/23 08:05:03


“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
3225 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights
 
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy




Douglasville, GA

Yeah, basically what I said. Still, as long as you keep your units up around 10 models, we're still looking better on Leadership than anyone aside from Nidz, so not a huge deal. Sure, we ain't rolling 5-6 FSUs anymore, but that's because we finally have units that can work on a competitive level besides Boy Spam. That's a net positive in my book.
   
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 Blackie wrote:

Flash gitz need a trukk since badrukk's aura doesn't add that much and they usually need to get in range anyway; furthemore if they're freebooters they get the +1 to hit even if they are embarked.

Whats the gameplan with flashgitz trukk? Get into 24" range, park and proceed to shoot out of the vehicle until it explodes and provides surviving gits with 3+?
   
Made in it
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity




Italy

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So where do our good ol Warbosses fit in now? After Jumping/tellyporting boyz into the thick, the bosses are left far behind... I don't really feel like going index bike boss route.


For me they're embarked. I have 2 warbosses with relic melee weapons and thre BWs with rollas. 3 units of 18 boyz and 2 weirdboyz join them. Truck with full squad of nobz (sometimes a weirdboy goes here) and two trukks with 10 bustas and 2 squigs each. Plus gretchins and some mek gunz. There's enough target saturation to let the warbosses assist the boyz and with 10 drops in total I have good odds to get first turn. Oh, they're mostly goffs, so not tons of bodies but the extra hits and S5 mitigate that tipycally, but I know that those boyz+BWs could maybe be more effective if evil sunz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JawRippa wrote:
 Blackie wrote:

Flash gitz need a trukk since badrukk's aura doesn't add that much and they usually need to get in range anyway; furthemore if they're freebooters they get the +1 to hit even if they are embarked.

Whats the gameplan with flashgitz trukk? Get into 24" range, park and proceed to shoot out of the vehicle until it explodes and provides surviving gits with 3+?


Well tipycally 4+ and 3+ just for the kaptin plus one re-roll thanks to the runt, which is decent firepower for a 154 points unit that sits on a 64 points transport. I basically have 200ish spared points in my current list that I fill up with with random stuff: it's usually a 10 man squad of nobz + ammo runt in a trukk, which is my favorite choice, or 5-6 tellyported megnaobz , two boosta blastas or 5 flash gitz in a trukk.

I've never tried the freebooterz combo yet since I'm focussing on other kultures at the moment.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/23 09:18:45


Orks 9000
Space Wolves 6500
Drukhari 4500 
   
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Grovelin' Grot





PiñaColada wrote:
 Marklarr wrote:


Just wanted to add that I’m not trying to be gamey with the rules with this, it just seems that’s the way it’s intended and to me a super fluffy waboss wanting to get in on the action first.

They literally state you cannot use drive-by krumpin' in your opponents phase in the FAQ


Sigh! My bad, I didn’t pick up on that when I first read the FAQ.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Jidmah wrote:

They also have a native -1 to hit so are more tanky at range.

Assuming someone wants to shoot the buggy hanging back and struggling to kill more than a single primaris marine. -1 to hit is an advantage, but not that much on a unit that needs to be in 6" range to justify its points.
Another unit that also has -1 to hit, shoots twice as often, is faster, has higher range, strength and more wounds is the dakkajet - for just 48 points more than the snazzwagon.


I disagree with this.
Whilst the dakkajet does seem like a better choice at first, it does have some drawbacks.

For starters, its a flyer.
Which means that it can't take objectives, it doesn't count on being on the table, and its subject to that weird movement rule where it doesn't go exactly where you want it to go.
The extra range is meaningless if you have to move 20" a turn, so its more like 16" range.
The Dakkajet is not a speedfreak, so you cannot use the fume clouds strat to increase it to -2 to hit.

You can take objectives with the snazzwagon, you can decide where it can go and you can just hang back and shoot for a bit, and you can use the strat on it.
In terms of performance, the snazzwagon would perform better against T4 single wound models with its main gun than the rivet cannon, and it has a big shoota too, adding a bit more to its ranged firepower.
Since it has more shots it has a better chance of proccing ddd as well.

In contrast, most of the damage from the KBB comes from short range; yes, you have a rivet cannon, but you really want to use those burna exhausts. Which means getting in close, which could be risky.

Still not sure about the squigbuggy though. I suspect it might be better in practice than on paper, but the price isn't great.
It would have been nice if it had a support ability. Like, its squiglaunchers could remove overwatch or something.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/23 11:25:55


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Flashy Flashgitz





crewe

I have run 3 SJDs and 2 MTSJs in all my lists so far and they have been my stars of the list.

So far I have found that the SJDs out-perform the MTSJs at an AT role due to the Deathskulls re-rolls for the kustom shokk rifle.

What i tend to do is fire a SJD at a vehicle then move on to the next one. This one then shoots another vehicle, and the last one does the same. By wounding each vehicle i then have my turn 1 Da Jumped Badmoon Bustas pop Moar Dakka and Showin' Off and divide the shots between all three targets.

Every game this has killed 3 vehicles turn 1. I have been against Imperial Guard, Deathwatch, Alaitoc Craftworlders and Dark Eldar Coven + Kabal.

So instead my MTSJs have been given anti MEQ duties. They shred medium/heavy infantry with the rokkit kannons and the big shootas go into GEQ chaff lines. The wing missiles i just throw off at random light vehicles/transports and i usually charge with them around turn 2.

I really want to use more Boyz again but my list has none. I am enjoying the crazy high mobility and mass str 8 shooting that my army pumps out that i rarely enter combat unless its with the Warbosses or the MTSJs.

How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
Made in se
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva






How did you guys calculated that the Bonebreaka does more dmg than an G-Naut in CC?
My math (which is squiggy at best, I know) says this:


Vs VEQ:
G-Naut Big Klaw : 11.667
G-Naut small Klaw: 10.667
Bonebreaka* : 6.667

Vs KEQ:
G-Naut Big Klaw : 7.778
G-Naut small Klaw: 8
Bonebreaka* : 6.667

Vs MEQ:
G-Naut Big Klaw : 11.667 (4 models)
G-Naut small Klaw: 11.852 (6 models)
Bonebreaka* :8.333 (4 models)

*9 attacks were used in the Bonebreaka exemple as statistical value : 6+3.



The G-naut is always better and can also shoot a metric ton of dakka. I am definitely biased but I think for 4 CP and 300pts you have a flank destroyer that can back up, shoot and charge again. The bonebreaka is cheaper and can transport 6 models more, sure, but i believe that, if you are using Tellyporta, you don´t want to have that much models waiting T3 before doing anything anyways.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/23 13:49:40


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Why is so much stuff out of stock on the GW website? That's weird.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in no
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




 Emicrania wrote:
How did you guys calculated that the Bonebreaka does more dmg than an G-Naut in CC?
My math (which is squiggy at best, I know) says this:


Vs VEQ:
G-Naut Big Klaw : 11.667
G-Naut small Klaw: 10.667
Bonebreaka* : 6.667

Vs KEQ:
G-Naut Big Klaw : 7.778
G-Naut small Klaw: 8
Bonebreaka* : 6.667

Vs MEQ:
G-Naut Big Klaw : 11.667 (4 models)
G-Naut small Klaw: 11.852 (6 models)
Bonebreaka* :8.333 (4 models)

*9 attacks were used in the Bonebreaka exemple as statistical value : 6+3.



The G-naut is always better and can also shoot a metric ton of dakka. I am definitely biased but I think for 4 CP and 300pts you have a flank destroyer that can back up, shoot and charge again. The bonebreaka is cheaper and can transport 6 models more, sure, but i believe that, if you are using Tellyporta, you don´t want to have that much models waiting T3 before doing anything anyways.

Couple of things..
First off, what's VEQ & KEQ?
Secondly, the staistical value you should calculate at is 9.5 attacks for the bonebreaka strictly speaking.
And lastly, and most importantly, they're talking about it being better per point - not per unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/23 14:21:58


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Venom Equivalent and Knight Equivalent, I'm assuming.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in de
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
For starters, its a flyer.
Which means that it can't take objectives, it doesn't count on being on the table, and its subject to that weird movement rule where it doesn't go exactly where you want it to go.

True. But, due to the fly rule and high movement speed it can go places where where snazzwagon could not - like right next to an enemy character.
In Maelstrom games I can see using a buggy to drive to objectives you want to capture - I just don't see the snazzwagon being that buggy. I'd rather have a KMB or a scrapjet that can actually clear that objective should it be occupied by something. A snazzwagon has almost no chance of getting something like ten guardsmen, pox walkers or cultists off the objective. It's also just a single model, so you would lose the objective as soon as some bored dedicated transport decides to sit within 3" of that same objective.

The extra range is meaningless if you have to move 20" a turn, so its more like 16" range.

16" is the absolute worst case, assuming that need to move away from it in a straight line. In any other situation, thedakka jet will outrange a snazzwagon.
From my experience of playing dakkajets with those weird movement rules since the beginnen of 6th edition, a dakkajet tends to have at least half the table in range, if you want to shoot something you can.

The Dakkajet is not a speedfreak, so you cannot use the fume clouds strat to increase it to -2 to hit.

I'm not sure if I ever wanted to do this. You need to pop the stratagem before any shooting is announced, and the enemy can then just ignore the buggy due to its low damage output.

You can take objectives with the snazzwagon, you can decide where it can go and you can just hang back and shoot for a bit, and you can use the strat on it.
In terms of performance, the snazzwagon would perform better against T4 single wound models with its main gun than the rivet cannon, and it has a big shoota too, adding a bit more to its ranged firepower.

It kills 2.11 marines or 3.55 ork boyz. That's above average, but not great.

Since it has more shots it has a better chance of proccing ddd as well.

DDD damage increase is linear of 16.6% damage, which means that it will never help a model pull ahead of another. A better shooting unit will always benefit more from DDD than a weaker one, independent from BS, number of shots, strength, AP and damage. The only thing that benefits less from DDD are auto-hitting weapons.

In contrast, most of the damage from the KBB comes from short range; yes, you have a rivet cannon, but you really want to use those burna exhausts. Which means getting in close, which could be risky.

The snazzwagon almost doubles its damage when you throw burna bombs and charge your target. Why wouldn't you want to get close with that as well?
On top if that, the KBB has auto-hitting overwatch and the potential of causing mortal wounds on the charge, of course I would want to get close - it does more than three times the damage than a snazzwagon hanging back. The snazzwagon would need to survive for three turns to have the same impact.

In general, I understand your (and englishman's) argument - but that basically boils down to "it's a fast vehicle with a gun that doesn't suck". There are better options to hang back and shoot. There are better options to clear chaff. There are better options to grab objective. It excels at none of these disciplines, and WH40k in general rewards specialization over being a generalist.

However - being a fast vehicle with a gun that doesn't suck is definitely better that other stuff in the red category. Moving it up to yellow.

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Hope we can now move on from the Snazzwagon debate, because it truly isn't good enough to warrant so much screen space. Very diplomatic of you Jidmah to move it up to yellow
   
Made in se
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva






PiñaColada wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
Spoiler:
How did you guys calculated that the Bonebreaka does more dmg than an G-Naut in CC?
My math (which is squiggy at best, I know) says this:


Vs VEQ:
G-Naut Big Klaw : 11.667
G-Naut small Klaw: 10.667
Bonebreaka* : 6.667

Vs KEQ:
G-Naut Big Klaw : 7.778
G-Naut small Klaw: 8
Bonebreaka* : 6.667

Vs MEQ:
G-Naut Big Klaw : 11.667 (4 models)
G-Naut small Klaw: 11.852 (6 models)
Bonebreaka* :8.333 (4 models)

*9 attacks were used in the Bonebreaka exemple as statistical value : 6+3.



The G-naut is always better and can also shoot a metric ton of dakka. I am definitely biased but I think for 4 CP and 300pts you have a flank destroyer that can back up, shoot and charge again. The bonebreaka is cheaper and can transport 6 models more, sure, but i believe that, if you are using Tellyporta, you don´t want to have that much models waiting T3 before doing anything anyways.

Couple of things..
First off, what's VEQ & KEQ?
Secondly, the staistical value you should calculate at is 9.5 attacks for the bonebreaka strictly speaking.
And lastly, and most importantly, they're talking about it being better per point - not per unit.



VEQ: Veichle Equivalent
KEQ: Knight Equivalent

You are right about 9.5 as statistical; even if they are still worst off, and point per point comparison. I was just pointing out that saying that A Bonebreaka hit harder than a G-Naut it is not true. If you compare point per point, mostDEFF.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/23 14:55:34


 
   
Made in de
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





I thought it was Rhino Equivalent?

I'm also curious what saves the Knight Equivalent is supposed to have.

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Gork kills about 6 primaris marines in CC. Bone breaker with average # of attacks kills 4, but costs half the points.

   
Made in no
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




I'm guessing that VEQ is T7 3+ save and KEQ is T8 3+ save then?

The gorkanaut is not dependent on charges to keep being effective and degrades less drastically IMO but it's just tough to not like the bonebreaka. It's such an overachiever in regards to damage. 12 transport slots and still being cheap is a great deal
   
Made in se
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva






VEQ= T7 10W 3+
KEQ= T8 25W 3+ 5++

Dont get me wrong, I LOVE the bonebreaka, I just love the G-Naut more, even if it is less point effective (effective or competitive?). I would like to adore the Stompa also but they need to shave off at least 250 points IMHO.
   
 
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