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2020/10/01 14:18:51
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Play this when your Reanimation Protocols haven’t been as successful as you would have liked. Just when your opponent thinks they have an advantage, your dead Necrons return to the fray.
Ooh I like the sound of that. I didn't like the new RP rule at first because it took away that necron gimmick of models just standing back up after dying and made it more like a FNP variant, but if I can do that in some form then its fine.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2020/10/01 14:27:15
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Kanluwen wrote: Eh. With the addition of the "Core" keyword to the game, it's plausible that Scouts don't get it.
Yeeeah, because people reeeally care about buffing the throwaway screening squads that were all expected to die T1 anyway and denying them core will change anything
Mr Morden wrote: Gunline armies - An extra Missile Launcher is not the issue when there is BS like Eradicators.
Meanwhile, in real life, more and more tournament armies drop them in favour of spamming grav pods, las contemptors, FW land speeders, and other resin pay to win gak. Funny that.
I wish people read less hysteric paperhammer nonsense, which in eradicator case is especially hilarious as a lot of who accuse them of being broken previously attacked limits on (far stronger) quad fusion commanders as unfair and claimed one of the most broken units in the game was totally balanced (and the less said about defence of reapers, the better...)
I really, reeeeeeeeeeeally want to see the data from these tournaments where the real smart competitive players are ditching eradicators for....forgeworld land speeders?
Seconded. I'd also like to see where the broken resin units were in the daemon and orks lists that placed highly recently.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So you want 10-man Tac squads taking 2 heavy weapons?
Big problem with that is?
Fluff, tradition and overly encouraging castle gunline armies yet again?
Yes, the tactical squad gunline castle..what ? You can just spam MSU tacticals and get a free sarge upgrade for every second squad, and still have the same number of heavy weapons.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So you want 10-man Tac squads taking 2 heavy weapons?
Big problem with that is?
Fluff, tradition and overly encouraging castle gunline armies yet again?
You can already do this with two small squads?
Gunline armies - An extra Missile Launcher is not the issue when there is BS like Eradicators.
Fluff - well thats up to the person building their army - what era the Chapter is from, which Chapter etc. If you feel that a given Chapter, comany squad would have a single Special and a Single Heavy then you can do this
Tradition - ??? Well 8th and 9th have brought back more of the original RT style background and such
If you double your missile launcher or heavy bolter count on top of eradicators it becomes an issue. You're right that if you spam 5 man squads you get the same effect but in 10 man units you use less spots then combat squad so its technically more efficient.
You know that tacticals are troop choices,right ?
Thats kinda my point, you're giving troops who can willing split into 2 smaller 5 man units the ability to plonk multiple 5 man 2 heavy weapon units as their troops tax. Why even bother with devastators at that point?
Seeing as six slots is still a lot I could still go MSU and get the free Sergeant and extra Storm Bolter or whatnot. Do you really know what you're complaining about?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/10/01 14:28:13
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Kanluwen wrote: Eh. With the addition of the "Core" keyword to the game, it's plausible that Scouts don't get it.
Yeeeah, because people reeeally care about buffing the throwaway screening squads that were all expected to die T1 anyway and denying them core will change anything
Mr Morden wrote: Gunline armies - An extra Missile Launcher is not the issue when there is BS like Eradicators.
Meanwhile, in real life, more and more tournament armies drop them in favour of spamming grav pods, las contemptors, FW land speeders, and other resin pay to win gak. Funny that.
I wish people read less hysteric paperhammer nonsense, which in eradicator case is especially hilarious as a lot of who accuse them of being broken previously attacked limits on (far stronger) quad fusion commanders as unfair and claimed one of the most broken units in the game was totally balanced (and the less said about defence of reapers, the better...)
I really, reeeeeeeeeeeally want to see the data from these tournaments where the real smart competitive players are ditching eradicators for....forgeworld land speeders?
Seconded. I'd also like to see where the broken resin units were in the daemon and orks lists that placed highly recently.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So you want 10-man Tac squads taking 2 heavy weapons?
Big problem with that is?
Fluff, tradition and overly encouraging castle gunline armies yet again?
Yes, the tactical squad gunline castle..what ? You can just spam MSU tacticals and get a free sarge upgrade for every second squad, and still have the same number of heavy weapons.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So you want 10-man Tac squads taking 2 heavy weapons?
Big problem with that is?
Fluff, tradition and overly encouraging castle gunline armies yet again?
You can already do this with two small squads?
Gunline armies - An extra Missile Launcher is not the issue when there is BS like Eradicators.
Fluff - well thats up to the person building their army - what era the Chapter is from, which Chapter etc. If you feel that a given Chapter, comany squad would have a single Special and a Single Heavy then you can do this
Tradition - ??? Well 8th and 9th have brought back more of the original RT style background and such
If you double your missile launcher or heavy bolter count on top of eradicators it becomes an issue. You're right that if you spam 5 man squads you get the same effect but in 10 man units you use less spots then combat squad so its technically more efficient.
You know that tacticals are troop choices,right ?
Thats kinda my point, you're giving troops who can willing split into 2 smaller 5 man units the ability to plonk multiple 5 man 2 heavy weapon units as their troops tax. Why even bother with devastators at that point?
Seeing as six slots is still a lot I could still go MSU and get the free Sergeant and extra Storm Bolter or whatnot. Do you really know what you're complaining about?
Primarily the ability to saturate your back line with 2 man heavy weapon combat squads. Partly because they don't need a way to ram yet more heavy weaponry into marine lists and also because it isn't what tac squads do fluff wise.
2020/10/01 14:36:56
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Rites of reanimation is sounding more and more like it is going to do one of the following:
Use immediately after making RP rolls for a necron unit with X inches of this model. Re roll failed RP rolls for this unit. (Most likely)
Use before making RP rolls for a selected necron unit within x inches of this model. Do not make RP rolls for this unit. Instead, restore Dx wounds to this unit. (Least likely)
2020/10/01 14:41:32
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Necronmaniac05 wrote: Rites of reanimation is sounding more and more like it is going to do one of the following:
Use immediately after making RP rolls for a necron unit with X inches of this model. Re roll failed RP rolls for this unit. (Most likely)
Use before making RP rolls for a selected necron unit within x inches of this model. Do not make RP rolls for this unit. Instead, restore Dx wounds to this unit. (Least likely)
Neither, it's used in the command phase, until the end of that phase, so there is nothing to trigger RP initially.
2020/10/01 14:41:47
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Necronmaniac05 wrote: Rites of reanimation is sounding more and more like it is going to do one of the following:
Use immediately after making RP rolls for a necron unit with X inches of this model. Re roll failed RP rolls for this unit. (Most likely)
Use before making RP rolls for a selected necron unit within x inches of this model. Do not make RP rolls for this unit. Instead, restore Dx wounds to this unit. (Least likely)
It said you can do it twice in the command phase. So I wonder if it’s similar to reviving mechanics from AoS, where you roll a dice or whatever and bring back that many models/that many wounds worth of models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/01 14:42:06
2020/10/01 14:44:44
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Yep, can't do anything in the command phase because it needs your enemies to attack. So they could also just pick another unit and ignore the one you buffed...
And I doubt it will let you pick back up models that failed their RP because one rule tells you to remove the models that failed and then you have one that tells you, you need to keep the dead there in a pile like last edition?
I can see it being like Ghost Arks, adding models back to a unit, basically just creating new ones ala tyranid ripper swarm and gaunt spewers.
Elevating your Characters to Masters of the Chapter used to come at a cost in Command points via the use of specific Stratagems. However, in the new codex, you promote your Characters to the most senior ranks by investing additional points or Power for the privilege instead.
Of course, upgrading your Characters in this manner does more than simply give them a fancy keyword. With each title comes a new ability, ensuring that their battlefield presence is enhanced to a level worthy of their rank. The Chapter Champion certainly lives up to his status, gaining no fewer than three new abilities that ensure he’s a real force to be reckoned with.
Each Master of the Chapter also has access to a Warlord Trait and Relic that are exclusive to their rank
Master of the Forge Warlord Trait
There’s one other cool feature in the new codex’s Crusade rules that we kept secret in yesterday’s article – there’s a special Requisition that enables you to promote your Crusade Characters to members of the Chapter Command!
It’s not just the Space Marines getting shiny new rules, either. As we mentioned in The Codex Show, Necrons players will also be able to grant their Crypteks powerful items of Arkana at a cost in points or Power, so you’ll have some new tricks of your own to look forward to.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/01 15:06:29
2020/10/01 15:10:18
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Billagio wrote: Interesting, assuming the Cheif Apoth still gives FNP the same way, wont be able to bring both him and a CM
Care to elaborate why? I don't get it.
CM is an upgrade. Chief Apoth is also an upgrade. FNP was (maybe will) a warlord trait. I can't see the interaction making both incompatible.
2020/10/01 16:41:29
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
I'm really glad that the character upgrades are handled via points instead of CP. I've been saying for years that this is how it should work. Now they only need to make the relics buyable with points too.
If you double your missile launcher or heavy bolter count on top of eradicators it becomes an issue. You're right that if you spam 5 man squads you get the same effect but in 10 man units you use less spots then combat squad so its technically more efficient.
You know that tacticals are troop choices,right ?
Thats kinda my point, you're giving troops who can willing split into 2 smaller 5 man units the ability to plonk multiple 5 man 2 heavy weapon units as their troops tax. Why even bother with devastators at that point?
If you're using Combat Squads you're bringing 30 Tacticals just to fill up a bat. If you want to benefit from the reduced Troop slot usage you'd have to be planning to bring even more Tacticals than that to even have any kind of benefit from it. That was the point you made.
On "but devs": Devastators don't have to pay for 5 extra tacticals without a sarge, and they're bringing more heavy weapons, and their sarge is better (+1 to hit ability), and they can buy a cherub.
Heavy slots might be an issue, but you can easily bring 3x5 Devastators and 3x5 Tacticals and that's a better choice than 3x10 Tacticals, 3 more heavy weapons won't change that.
2020/10/01 17:17:31
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Crimson wrote: I'm really glad that the character upgrades are handled via points instead of CP. I've been saying for years that this is how it should work. Now they only need to make the relics buyable with points too.
It does seem a big improvement - hopefully the rule of one also means you can't have more than one different character upgrade on a single character.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/01 17:17:43
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
If there is an unspotted nerf to eradicators on the datasheet, then I'm fairly happy with the changes.
Ehh...we haven't seen anything that confirmed the leaks from yesterday.
GW themselves outright talked about things like Chapter Masters and the like being a points boost rather than stratagems when they discussed the codex.
2020/10/01 17:27:09
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Crimson wrote: I'm really glad that the character upgrades are handled via points instead of CP. I've been saying for years that this is how it should work. Now they only need to make the relics buyable with points too.
It does seem a big improvement - hopefully the rule of one also means you can't have more than one different character upgrade on a single character.
...are there any generic SM characters with more than one of the listed keywords? I can't think of one, off-hand.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2020/10/01 17:31:22
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
yukishiro1 wrote: That thing about a strat for whirlwinds that makes whatever they shoot lose defensive positions and also fight last seems both stupid and strange enough to be just the sort of thing GW would do, because giving space marines a fights last character wasn't enough, gotta also give them the ability to put it on anything literally anywhere on the table with a non-LOS shooting unit!
If someone came up with that as a fake I actually gotta hand it to them, it's perfection.
How dare GW decide that a bombarding artillery unit actual do something a bombarding artillery unit is actually supposed to do
This is a game. Fights last is an extremely strong ability that is a near total counter to lots of units. There is no way it should be available on demand to apply to literally any unit anywhere on the board whenever a player wants. The judiciar was bad enough, it would be frankly absurd to give Space Marines a *second* unneeded, unjustified always-fights-last ability that is stronger than the ones other factions get.
If it expires at the end of the SM player's turn it doesn't really matter I guess, but if it lasts until the next turn and therefore makes the targeted unit fight last even when charging, that's a disaster in the making.
2020/10/01 17:45:02
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Crimson wrote: I'm really glad that the character upgrades are handled via points instead of CP. I've been saying for years that this is how it should work. Now they only need to make the relics buyable with points too.
~4100
~1660
who accuse them of being broken previously attacked limits on (far stronger) quad fusion commanders as unfair and claimed one of the most broken units in the game was totally balanced (and the less said about defence of reapers, the better...) 
4000+
Thousand Sons 4000+
