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Mmmpi wrote: I'm having some issues with psychers. I was wondering how Greyfax works with an otherwise all sisters army. Is she worth it, or should I stick with IG psychers?
Lammia wrote: So, I had a small game against Tyranids and I was wondering if we think their Codex changes our TAC lists and how we build against them. Is it worth taking 3x Penitent Engine or swaping a Repressor/s for an Immolator/s? Why don't we have snipers? Do we just not bother?
I don't know about Penitent Engines. I brought one in every game I played, and I'm not entirely convinced of it's utility. It's not fast enough to be a threat.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Lammia wrote: So, I had a small game against Tyranids and I was wondering if we think their Codex changes our TAC lists and how we build against them. Is it worth taking 3x Penitent Engine or swaping a Repressor/s for an Immolator/s? Why don't we have snipers? Do we just not bother?
What was your experience that led you to those specific considerations? I haven't played against them yet, but at a glance it looks sketchy. Seems like they got better access to invulnerable saves vs. our melta spam, and some very cool faction boosts to swarm lists, and as you point out, a sniperless army will be less able to exploit synapse. So it looks like greater challenges for us whether facing nidzilla or the gribbly farm, but maybe thats just index vs. codex.
It was a lot of things, the player's casual concern about flamers, the general proliferation of -1s+ to hit, the hordes ability to completely surround and destroy a vehicle, and the 'proper' range of the Immolation Flamer. I know some here have had success with a couple of Immolators being used as screens rather then a couple of Repressors used as metal boxes and it feels like it would be better to have that adaptabilty. The two things I would note about that list in particular is the importance of the broodlord to the army and the fact that the two point increase on Genestealers didn't negatively affect it's pre-codex effectiveness.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Lammia wrote: So, I had a small game against Tyranids and I was wondering if we think their Codex changes our TAC lists and how we build against them. Is it worth taking 3x Penitent Engine or swaping a Repressor/s for an Immolator/s? Why don't we have snipers? Do we just not bother?
I don't know about Penitent Engines. I brought one in every game I played, and I'm not entirely convinced of it's utility. It's not fast enough to be a threat.
Winterwar was great! Definitely got the bug to go to more tournaments. Especially if they're 1 day events, not sure if i could cope with a 2 day event.
Played 3 games and went 1 for 2 which was the result I had kinda expected for my first singles tournament. The event was scored by primary score difference and secondary objectives for tie breaks, it was supposed to be also points value killed as well but it seemed that a lot of people weren't able to cope with working that out.
My list
Spoiler:
+++ According to this... YOU'RE A HERETIC! [1999pts] +++
Knight Crusader: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer, Heavy stubber , Questor
Mechanicus, Stormspear rocket pod , Thermal cannon , Titanic feet
Game 1
Spoiler:
First game Vs Necrons. Dawn of war The mission was 6 objectives worth 1 point at the start of each turn. Secondaries were worth 1 point each, slay the warlord, remove their support (the side that killed the most fast/elite/heavy), Survival( the side with the most units left). I lost but it felt like a very close game the whole way through and i made a few silly mistakes which cost me a few points. I was so nervous at the start of the day i don't remember much about this game. We timed out before we finished the game once we totaled it up the difference was 3 points giving the necrons 13 points with 0 secondaries and i scored 7 points with 2 secondaries. MVP was the Knight Crusader who did was mowing down stuff all game with it's avenger gatling cannon and took a random potshot at the annihilation barge at the end of the game and just one shot it with the thermal cannon and stormspear. I made a few mistakes which cost me some points, I forgot to cap a few objectives with open units and i know i missed at least 2 points. maybe even 3 points which would have tied the game and given me the win on secondaries.
Game 2
Spoiler:
Second game Vs Dark angels. Search and destroy (quarters with the 9" circle in the middle) the mission was 4 objectives worth 3 points at the end of the game secondaries were, marked for death (pick a unit after the setup and it's worth 1vp if killed), chain of command (kill the most characters), attrition(kill the most units) This felt like my hardest game of the day, the guy was castled up behind a line of razor backs with a -1 to hit, 4++ and reroll 1s buff aura. oh my god that was a tough nut to crack, my knight and a unit of dominions took 2 wounds off of the -1 to hit aura land speeder thing and i had nothing else shooty in range to kill it. so changing plans i managed to pop open the razor back directly in front of the buff characters and managed to get the charge off with seraphim and celestine. Took longer than it really should have to kill off all the buff but i did eventually get them all. I Totally fethed up and forgot to bring my assassins in on turn 1 to tie up some of the dev squads and i lost my knight on turn two at which point i thought the game was all but over. I managed to hold it together though and capped both the objectives in his deployment and one in my own at the end of the game. Finished the game with a difference of 9 for a score of 19-1 to me. I swept the secondaries 3-0 as well. Honestly felt like my hardest game but the most one sided score. MVP was the seraphim. This is the only game they have ever survived the whole game and those girls just carried so hard locking things in combat and going to town with inferno pistols. I think his mistake was deploying on the line. if he'd deployed back a bit so that it took me longer to get in his face, or at least fail the turn 1 charge I think he'd have gubbed me. He was a good guy though and the banter was decent so thumbs up. The only guy i played who i didn't already kinda know.
Game 3
Spoiler:
Third game Vs chaos slaanesh flavored things. vanguard. The Mission was standard maelstrom out the book. 6 objectives. 3 cards. Secondaries, slay the warlord, line breaker, first blood At this point of the day my brain has turned off and i've turned into some sort of 40k savant. I this isn't a game any more, this is a dance of dice rolls and tape measures. I'm not playing the game. I am the game! and my army is an extension of will! Lots of oblits deployed in deepstrike as the first deployments, so after putting my assassins into deepstrike i my knight 9" from my corner and zoned out my deployment with my troops and the rest of my list. I got first turn and after vanguard, AoF and movement i'd managed to zone out almost half the table from DS apart from a small patch in my back corner behind two troops which were zoning out charge range on my knight. At the end of my first turn of shooting and assaults i had given my opponent a very bloody nose. A unit of oblits and a chaos psyker thin with wings come down in my back corner and the other oblits come down in other tactical places. My Culexus debuff zone shut down the other 2 psykers so well that he didn't get any powers off with them and i didn't need to roll any deny the witch rolls with greyfax. Turn 2 the knight turns around and unloads on the the stuff in my back corner then charges in to dance on them with happy feet. sadly it doesn't manage to clear it up in 1 turn due to buffs but is enough to make the demon thingy move out of position and take a thermal cannon to the back of the head in the next turn and do a happy dance on the now unbuffed oblits. meanwhile the rest of my army is pushing up the past the half way point on the table and i control almost a 4'x4' swathe of the board. We had both had the worst card draw in the history of maelstrom games. I scored 1 card on turn one and that was it. My turn 2 draw was awful, i was stuck with a defend card that i'd been shot off of on turn 1, defend another objective that he was camping and a card control all the objectives. His draw wasn't much better kill things that were becoming unkillable, my psykers who were standing behind the culexus (with his you can only hit me on 6s and i have a 4++ invul) who was standing behind a repressor full of dominions, who were all sitting in the middle of the table blocking his card to have no ememy units in the middle of the table. He did draw a card to kill something with <FLY> and swatted my seraphim and picked up a card from a unit failing moral( i rolled a 6 and one died...:ermm: ). The final score for cards were 3-1 to him giving us a difference of 2 and a score of 12-8 to him and secondaries were 3-1 to me, couldn't stop him getting line breaker. Honestly this game felt very one sided in my favor but i just didn't have the card draw to get my score going. MVP was the culexus assassin, -2 to harness the warp effectively shut down his psykic phase and made those unbuffed beasties easy killing. Not a huge amount i could have done differently in this game due to the worst card draw in the history of card draw.
Over all I made a few mistakes and I cost myself a few points in game 1 and 3. Forgetting to bring in my assassins on turn 1 in game 2 to lock down some of the shooting definitely cost me my knight but I managed to scrape through for a solid win. Every game I killed more points worth of stuff than I lost. but got pipped to the post by a narrow margin. My list feels solid and I think it's going to be my go to for competitive games. I don't think i'm going to change anything, but I do have 1 point left over so i might just have to convert the one sister superior i have listed with no upgrades to have a condemnor bolt gun just for a nice round 2000 points. MVP of the day was the Callidus assassin. That lady, although not having a huge impact per game, burnt so many command points over the course of the day. 100% worth! Much Value! My final position in the tournament was 13th out of 42, which puts me... above average?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/11/19 01:35:51
Mmmpi wrote: I'm having some issues with psychers. I was wondering how Greyfax works with an otherwise all sisters army. Is she worth it, or should I stick with IG psychers?
What kind of issues? Have you tried a culexus?
My main issue is that I didn't add any psykic defense to my army. My current main opponent is new, and his use of a DA librarian came as a surprise, mostly because I didn't know he had one (I've been helping him build his physical army). He used it well, leaving him in a position to have probably won our first game (we ended early due to time).
What I want is something that is:
A: not overpowering, something that will help me with psychic defense, but won't become the whole focus for the game, or just flat out dominate.
B: Is Fluffy. Since most of our games are going to be with index armies, in smaller at home matches, I'm looking for something that fits a story, or army theme.
So, A culexus is cool. Would work with sisters. But I don't know how hard a new player would have to deal with it. Plus I don't have one.
IG Psykers are reletivly inexpense, and bare bones, but their powers don't work on my sisters. Plus the whole fluff of working with witches thing. Power-wise seem the best option.
Greyfax: In fluff, an ordo hereticus, so sisters will sign all their letters to her with hearts over the 'I's. Her powers work on everything in my army, and she's tougher to kill then the IG space wizards. I don't think she's an overpowered choice, but I've never used her in 8th.
Greyfax: In fluff, an ordo hereticus, so sisters will sign all their letters to her with hearts over the 'I's. Her powers work on everything in my army, and she's tougher to kill then the IG space wizards. I don't think she's an overpowered choice, but I've never used her in 8th.
I think Greyfax is the right choice, given your restrictions. She's pretty much the definition of balanced - she's reasonably powerful in the "psyker shutdown" niche, but not overwhelmingly so, at a reasonable cost. Plus her model looks badass. I'd pick her up if you have the chance.
Just an FYI, Sisters with SB are back in the store.
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PanzerLeader wrote: How competitive do you guys think Xenos or hereticus acolytes with flamers or plasma guns would be?
For flamers I'd stick with sisters. One point more gets you power armor, acts of faith, shield of faith. Make them dominions (2pts more) and you get 5 flamers compared to six, and vanguard. The only edge the acolytes have is that the xenos get to reroll some wounds against some armies, and the hereticus against the rare character.
PanzerLeader wrote: How competitive do you guys think Xenos or hereticus acolytes with flamers or plasma guns would be?
For flamers I'd stick with sisters. One point more gets you power armor, acts of faith, shield of faith. Make them dominions (2pts more) and you get 5 flamers compared to six, and vanguard. The only edge the acolytes have is that the xenos get to reroll some wounds against some armies, and the hereticus against the rare character.
Hereticus get to re-roll against anything with the Chaos keyword, so they get their bonus against more than just the "rare character." That said, they're clearly costed as if this ability is "always on," so if you're going up against anything without the tag, they're grossly inefficient. I love Acolytes to death, but with the profile of a Guard Sergeant, but double the price, they're barely worthwhile even with the ability. I wouldn't classify them as "competitive" unless you can somehow be certain you'll be facing nothing but their Quarry.
I'd say the current most competitive choices for Plasma are clearly Miltarum Tempestus Scions, while Flamers are probably best on <Catachan> squads, if you don't mind investing a bit for a detachment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/22 12:43:42
Rynner wrote: I hate to be that guy buy depending on how much Celestine goes up and how/if Repressors change I'm not sure how viable sisters well be as an army.
Let's wait a few days before moaning and gnashing our teeth.
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It will be interesting to see how big an increase Celestine gets. Will it be enough to remove her from Soup armies? Distraction Carnifex isn't the way I like to think of her being a Sisters player. I hope they can derail that notion and actually balance her points out rather than nerf her into uselessness.
As far as the Repressor goes, a points increase will just make the Immolator more attractive and make Sisters players make a choice rather than auto-include. I have six repressors, but I also have 13 rhino/immo's that honestly don't see the table top equal to their % of my available collection.
It all comes down to how well they balance it.
Don't forget, we might actually be getting a power fist point fix for the Eviscerator, Repentia (?), and hopefully the hand flamer.
I doubt it of course, but my Sisters will keep purging no matter what.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/22 17:55:25
Fortunately, if they do go too high on the points we might get a rebalance with the Codex (which I’m hoping for sooner rather than later). Still, this all feels like Index 2.0, I wish GW would come out with all the codexes at one time and then tweak the points maybe with two Chapter Approveds per year. All the changes and new books / tweaks etc are why I left during 6th and 7th.
davidgr33n wrote: Fortunately, if they do go too high on the points we might get a rebalance with the Codex (which I’m hoping for sooner rather than later). Still, this all feels like Index 2.0, I wish GW would come out with all the codexes at one time and then tweak the points maybe with two Chapter Approveds per year. All the changes and new books / tweaks etc are why I left during 6th and 7th.
Its better to bring them out one at a time for production reasons, they can focus on making certain armies spurs, they most likely only have a few machine. (im experience in productions but not GW this is just an educated guess).
It also gives them more knowledge as to what stratagems are to strong or weak, i'm sure they think the CSMAL one is a bit strong and next time would make it +1 more CP.
dracpanzer wrote: It will be interesting to see how big an increase Celestine gets. Will it be enough to remove her from Soup armies?
I'd almost rather there were a simple universal mechanism by which character-heavy soup was taxed. Celestine never descends onto the battlefield without 2 BSS Troop units already there, Girlyman doesn't set foot out the door without 2 Tac squads, etc. EXCEPT in a single-faction army of their own faction. She does need a nerf in imperial soup, but not in mono Sisters IMO.
So let's start by posting once again the chapter approved rumors for SOB:
Adepta Sororitas
/Warlord Trait - re-roll failed morale tests if within 6" of Warlord
/Relic - Blade to replace power sword. Melee S +2 AP-3 D3
/Strategems
1CP Martydom-use when a character dies and on a 2+ can perform an Act of Faith 1CP Purity of Faith- use when an enemy uses psychic powers within 24" on a 4+ negate it.
On Martyrdom, while I am aware that the wording (if this is even true) is likely to change, I am reading this as being usable in your opponent's turn and not only tour turn.
Since characters are most likely to die in your opponent's turn, I could see a lot of actions out of sequence happening.
Spamming squads of five sisters to lose the superiors so that Celestine, Seraphims or Retributors get extra actions in your opponent's phase would be extremely useful.
Strategic Discipline is a solid blocker right now however. If they allow for it to be used more than once per phase however, it would make battalions worthwhile for sister players.
dracpanzer wrote: It will be interesting to see how big an increase Celestine gets. Will it be enough to remove her from Soup armies?
I'd almost rather there were a simple universal mechanism by which character-heavy soup was taxed. Celestine never descends onto the battlefield without 2 BSS Troop units already there, Girlyman doesn't set foot out the door without 2 Tac squads, etc. EXCEPT in a single-faction army of their own faction. She does need a nerf in imperial soup, but not in mono Sisters IMO.
If they bump up the buffs that Sisters (only) get from her - buffs commensurate with her cost- then good. If they bump up her cost with no bump for the Sisters then, well let’s just say my Canoness is starting to look a little more attractive right now.
Spamming squads of five sisters to lose the superiors so that Celestine, Seraphims or Retributors get extra actions in your opponent's phase would be extremely useful.
Superiors are not characters.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/22 20:29:51
Automatically Appended Next Post: Use dialogous are objective holders, put 2 or 3 on each objective and laugh when they get pulled off.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/22 20:46:28
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Automatically Appended Next Post: Use dialogous are objective holders, put 2 or 3 on each objective and laugh when they get pulled off.
I like the way you think
I can just see my gun line of Stormbolter Dominions smirking every time someone got ready to off a character on an objective...
If this rumor does pan out, it will just go to show how little effort GW puts into playtesting their ideas.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/22 20:56:07
Automatically Appended Next Post: Use dialogous are objective holders, put 2 or 3 on each objective and laugh when they get pulled off.
I like the way you think
I can just see my gun line of Stormbolter Dominions smirking every time someone got ready to off a character on an objective...
If this rumor does pan out, it will just go to show how little effort GW puts into playtesting their ideas.
If it's an army wide available AoF (to those units with the rule but any range) that would be freaking hilarious. I dare you to shoot me off that objective....
dracpanzer wrote: It will be interesting to see how big an increase Celestine gets. Will it be enough to remove her from Soup armies?
I'd almost rather there were a simple universal mechanism by which character-heavy soup was taxed. Celestine never descends onto the battlefield without 2 BSS Troop units already there, Girlyman doesn't set foot out the door without 2 Tac squads, etc. EXCEPT in a single-faction army of their own faction. She does need a nerf in imperial soup, but not in mono Sisters IMO.
If they bump up the buffs that Sisters (only) get from her - buffs commensurate with her cost- then good. If they bump up her cost with no bump for the Sisters then, well let’s just say my Canoness is starting to look a little more attractive right now.
The thing about this all is what makes Celestine powerful? Act of Faith! Why can a model make use of army special rules while in soup detachment? Easy fix, make AoF a chapter tactic level rule where by it's only usable in a pure detachment. Celestine stops showing up in soup detachments, problem solved. If you want to take her in her full effect then you'd have to take her in at the very least, a scout detachment. It's not much of a tax but it adds up, A command point missed here, a lynch pin unit missed there, a whole detachment slot eaten.
Ha crap, had a brainfart about the character rule change from 7th to 8th.
But yeah, ugly model spam would be viable on objectives and be terribly funny, yet effective.
Edit:
Something else to consider. If the wording does not change, that would also work when one of your opponent's character dies. You basically made him a martyr
It would also mean that characters from other factions you bring along would be opened to being used as martyrs.
It's likely wishlisting at this point, but it would be funny if that was not clarified.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/22 21:13:53
Worse idea (or better!), make Dialogous a 15 point 'upgrade' to every transport. You get to choose the model that dies when a transport explodes and you roll a 1.
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I have been considering for some time to demote Celestine and use her points elsewhere, so if she does get a considerable addition in points I’ll be fielding a Canoness and 100 plus points of goodies.
My real question / concern is what they’ll be doing to Repressors. I love my Immolators, but Repressors have made my girls so much more flexible tactically.
My other question is, how are they going to resolve the much-maligned Exorcist?
I hope GW realizes I don’t want to pay for Leman Russ durability with the equivalent of Stormbolter damage output.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/22 21:49:34
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
