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To me it seems like dakka as a whole has been pretty stale the last couple months. Is that a comment on 8th or just a natural lull?
On a tactics related note. I have 2 Xiphons on order. I'm going to run a small patrol of ravenguard with my sisters.
A techmarine, Scouts, and 2 Xiphons. I think it will be an ideal long range compliment to my Repressor doms, celestine, seraphim, and retributors.
The Xipons are the same stats as a las pred, but for 10 more points you get their awesome missile launcher, you get to hit models with fly on a 2+ instead of 3+, and -2 to hit them back with ravenguard. I think they'll come in handy as character snipers since they can move 50".
I think part of it is the rapid fire releases. People are busy trying to digest what's come out, but it's been fast enough that it's been staying inside just a few threads.
I'd be down with a rumormongering and wishlisting thread over in the GD forum. Tactics is for tactics and list feedback... I'm working on a tankless all-infantry list once I count up my boltgun sisters, so stay tuned.
Edit: I've posted a new Brigade list in the Army Lists forum; link in my sig.
In a nutshell, I dropped Exorcist, P-Engine, and 3 Immolators to bring nearly 100 suits of cheap power armor to slog up the table carrying almost every heavy and special weapon in my collection. 2 Canonesses, 3 Imagifiers, and a Priest to scatter around. Only the 4 units of Dominions get 2 Rhinos to cross the table in; everything else walks... except for Celestine and a unit of Inferno Seraphim.
Has anyone tried this build? Is this horde Sisters? It's a lot of BS 3+ S4 shooting with 3+ saves deployed in long, thin layers for board control and maximized radius buffs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/11 07:13:24
The Xipons are the same stats as a las pred, but for 10 more points you get their awesome missile launcher, you get to hit models with fly on a 2+ instead of 3+, and -2 to hit them back with ravenguard. I think they'll come in handy as character snipers since they can move 50".
Raven guard and Sisters mixed are fantastic. However Marine tanks (other than dreads) don't get chapter tactics. I would try out Raven Guard Aggressors, rumored point decrease or not, they are really good. I've also wanted to try out Xipons for awhile now but just haven't put the money toward it yet. Let us know how they do for you!
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/11/11 21:01:15
MacPhail wrote: I'd be down with a rumormongering and wishlisting thread over in the GD forum. Tactics is for tactics and list feedback... I'm working on a tankless all-infantry list once I count up my boltgun sisters, so stay tuned.
Edit: I've posted a new Brigade list in the Army Lists forum; link in my sig.
In a nutshell, I dropped Exorcist, P-Engine, and 3 Immolators to bring nearly 100 suits of cheap power armor to slog up the table carrying almost every heavy and special weapon in my collection. 2 Canonesses, 3 Imagifiers, and a Priest to scatter around. Only the 4 units of Dominions get 2 Rhinos to cross the table in; everything else walks... except for Celestine and a unit of Inferno Seraphim.
Has anyone tried this build? Is this horde Sisters? It's a lot of BS 3+ S4 shooting with 3+ saves deployed in long, thin layers for board control and maximized radius buffs.
I actually play foot sisters. Without Fearless, I've found that large PA units have morale trouble (used to run 3 20 girl blobs with a priest for Fearless. Tried 4 15, not good either. 6 10 girl squads are fairly good but still suffer a bit from morale).
I actually play foot sisters. Without Fearless, I've found that large PA units have morale trouble (used to run 3 20 girl blobs with a priest for Fearless. Tried 4 15, not good either. 6 10 girl squads are fairly good but still suffer a bit from morale).
That's reassuring. I think i agree on 10 as a nice point of balance. Do you mix squad loadouts knowing you won't have as much control over matchup or go all on on certain specials?
I'm leaning toward staying focused. Right now I have 2 squads of 10 with flamer/flamer/combi-flamer, and 2 squads of triple stormbolters. My deployment notion is this: 10-strong units form a shallow X across midfield deployment zone. Flamers on the upper arms of the X, stormbolters on the lower arms. At the nexus of all four arms is a Canoness (inferno pistol and power sword), priest, and Imagifier to maximize versatility with auras. Flamers get into range, take a charge, then fall back through the stormbolters, who open up when the flamers clear melee.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 09:14:37
I actually play foot sisters. Without Fearless, I've found that large PA units have morale trouble (used to run 3 20 girl blobs with a priest for Fearless. Tried 4 15, not good either. 6 10 girl squads are fairly good but still suffer a bit from morale).
That's reassuring. I think i agree on 10 as a nice point of balance. Do you mix squad loadouts knowing you won't have as much control over matchup or go all on on certain specials?
I'm leaning toward staying focused. Right now I have 2 squads of 10 with flamer/flamer/combi-flamer, and 2 squads of triple stormbolters. My deployment notion is this: 10-strong units form a shallow X across midfield deployment zone. Flamers on the upper arms of the X, stormbolters on the lower arms. At the nexus of all four arms is a Canoness (inferno pistol and power sword), priest, and Imagifier to maximize versatility with auras. Flamers get into range, take a charge, then fall back through the stormbolters, who open up when the flamers clear melee.
I stay focused.
5 of my 6 girl squads have triple storm bolter, and the 6th has multi-melta/meltagun. The former 5 are for bounding up the field like madwomen trying to get in range. I have 2 five-girl dominion squads too, as well a 10 Seraphim. The HQs are Celestine and two Canonesses, and the Heavy Support are 3 Retributor Squads. Elites are 1 Celestians (yes, I know) and 2 Imagifiers (yes, I also know).
The plan is to deploy the "Assault blob" (the 5 stormbolter squads) along the axis of advance, all blobbed up around one Canoness, one Imagifier, and the Celestians in the middle.
On one flank goes the Heavy Bolter Retributors with one Imagifier and one Canoness.
On the other flank goes the walking Melta squad (this is the deliberately weak flank, and the squad is deployed more back and center than truly on the flank - it is my insurance against things like flyers, though it's not my best!
Celestine, her Seraphim retinue, and the Dominion squads are deployed where they need.
And that's the general layout of my foot Sororitas brigade.
The Xipons are the same stats as a las pred, but for 10 more points you get their awesome missile launcher, you get to hit models with fly on a 2+ instead of 3+, and -2 to hit them back with ravenguard. I think they'll come in handy as character snipers since they can move 50".
Raven guard and Sisters mixed are fantastic. However Marine tanks (other than dreads) don't get chapter tactics. I would try out Raven Guard Aggressors, rumored point decrease or not, they are really good. I've also wanted to try out Xipons for awhile now but just haven't put the money toward it yet. Let us know how they do for you!
Poop. you're right, only infantry, bikers, and dreadnoughts get chapter tactics. I didn't notice the column on the left of the page. Welp, I can drop the techmarine and scouts then. That'll free up room for more sisters.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PanzerLeader wrote: I just finished 3rd at Pittsburgh GT with horde sisters. I’ll post list and a quick run down of games tomorrow
Attaboy!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 15:28:40
And that's the general layout of my foot Sororitas brigade.
Very cool, and similar to what I'm messing with. A couple of questions...
Any trouble with consolidation moves dragging your whole storm bolter blob into melee? A charging opponent would only need to survive 30 bolter shots to engage one unit and then survive the fight phase to get two or more additional units wrapped up for a turn. I can think of plenry of fast moving units who will have no trouble there. Is this a problem? I'm looking at how to leave a gap too big for consolidation between the flamers up front and the stormbolters in the rear while still keeping everyone close to the Canoness, Imagifiers, and priest.
Also, do you screen your retributers? I'm using the last two of my six Troops for that (2×10 with max stormbolters, 2x10 with max flamers, and 2x5 with no upgrades). Does that one melta BSS unit spread thin around the Rets serve to make a charge extra dangerous? I'm thinking that rather than try to actually do damage they just need to keep deep strikers off my back.
I only own two units of HB Rets, so my third unit is footslogging heavy flamers. I've had mixed luck with them as a mech unit, but now they have a long hike... thinking about trading them for a penitent engine. Thoughts?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 20:33:04
No. I sometimes bring a Ministorum Priest if I am worried about that, and the ~90 odd attacks they have to endure in retaliation often dissuades people from drawing in too many squads - plus, if they weren't engaged, the next turn, my Canoness and Celestians charge in for another ~16 attacks from the Celestians and ~6 from the Canoness. Believe it or not, weight of dice from the storm-bolter blob is almost as good in melee as it is in shooting.
What's worse is if they don't engage multiple units, then the unit that was engaged Falls Back with it's AOF and can still shoot them to pieces with the rest of the huge blob.
I don't use flamers at all; too expensive.
I do not screen my rets often - deployed in cover with a 2+ save, they take significant effort to remove (i.e. a large scion drop or something) disproportionate to their points cost, and with the Canoness there, unless they drop something REALLY scary (and expensive, like terminators) they're basically dooming whatever it is to a slow death by power sword / eviscerator. If people really want to dedicate that kind of firepower to killing heavy bolters then sure - that's just more sisters in my blob that are making it up the field.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/13 20:41:09
The canoness and seraphim superior received power swords because lists were due for early submission and I couldn't think of anything else to spend my last 10 points on that would be WYSIWYG and not require finding bits. The lone rhino is for flagellant protection. The salamander captain gets Teeth of Terra to be another melee threat. The missions were all a primary worth 16 BP, a maelstrom using the decks were you simply kept what you scored up to a max of 9 and a mix of assorted tertiaries.
I ended up playing a good mix of lists. Game one I played Grey Knights with Draigo, Dreadknight Chapter Master, four razorbacks (2 assault cannon, 2 lascannon), two storm ravens and four strike squads. He won the roll to go first and between my BSS screen pushing the strikes back and some deployment between LOS blocking walls (we played ITC all first floors of ruins fully block LOS) he only managed to knock out one devastator squad. I killed a raven and a half between devs, HBs and smites while the seraphim and Celestine assaulted the two razorbacks that had advanced with assault cannons to take out their shooting. Turn one ended up seeing a lot of his firepower heavily negated and I went on to win with 31 out of 32 BP. Draigo survived until the bottom of five with a single wound left, denying me warlord.
Game two I played demons with two heldrakes, renegade knight, two demon princes, 12 hounds, 8 seekers, 40 demonettes and some blood letters. The mission was kill points with units worth points equal to their power level. He wasn't able to crack my screen efficiently (I had two BSS squads up, with the third behind them and no gaps to move between models) so I was able to kill everything except a unit of demonettes in his backfield on a maelstrom objective by the end of turn 3. He wasn't anticipating my ability to out melee him with the flagellents, Celestine and the marine captain when I needed to and Hector Rex is a big demon killing machine. Won with all 32 BP.
Game three I played drop scions supported by a knight in a progressive objective mission. It was hammer and anvil and we each had 3 objectives in our zone. I sacrificed Celestine and the seraphim on turn two to finish killing his knight and steal an objective for the turn, making it hard for him to come back on the primary. I was able to keep my BSS screen up until turn 3, forcing him to drop into no man's land far away from the objectives. Won with 30 out of 32 BP, having only scored 8 maelstrom with some bad draws and missing first strike after choosing to focus on degrading the knight.
Game four I played chaos with fire raptor, obliterators, berserkers, noise marines, whirlwind Scorpius, Ahriman, demon prince, 30 brims, 30 cultists and some other assorted characters. It was old school victory points for the primary. I ended up losing because Celestine charged the fire raptor with 3 wounds remaining and only wounded once. The surviving raptor then benefited from prescience and warp time to manage to kill two devastator squads on the bottom of five for a 500+ point swing (I missed the remaining 211 on the raptor and it scored him 330 points). Lost the game but managed to eek out 20 BP, scoring everything I could except warlord and line breaker.
Game five I played orcs in four objective crusade. His list was 3x 30 boys, 30 storm boys, 5 weird boys, zhardsnark, 4 nob bikers, 2 super skorchers, 5 mek guns and a KFF mek. It was a brutal back and forth game, with a turn one storm boy charge tieing up two of my screening units and one of the rets and the super skorchers are nasty at 4d6 S5, -2 hits per track. I ended up holding the line thanks to some timely acts of faith (I gave my locked in combat units a shooting phase to get extra rounds of bolt pistol fire) and the flagellants murdering two of the boy mobs that came forward (including the last group of ~20 survivors who could have won the game for him. Ended up with 32 battle points.
Finished 4-1 with enough battle points to place 3rd.
Some of the big points:
-I really liked having the 33 battle sister screen, but I think I need a few more bodies. Moral isn't an issue with the inquisitor around and a few more bases to block out assaults would have been clutch (especially in dawn of war against the orcs were I just ran out of table space to create depth).
-Consistently not having the +1 to go first wasn't a problem. Infantry are so easy to get cover for on the units that need it.
-I need to make a decision on the marine allies. The salamander devs are so good, but I'd really like some high quality shots at 72" which means looking at AM.
-Its not fluffy, but you absolutely need some mortal wound sources this edition and the supreme command detachment was great at it.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
The canoness and seraphim superior received power swords because lists were due for early submission and I couldn't think of anything else to spend my last 10 points on that would be WYSIWYG and not require finding bits. The lone rhino is for flagellant protection. The salamander captain gets Teeth of Terra to be another melee threat. The missions were all a primary worth 16 BP, a maelstrom using the decks were you simply kept what you scored up to a max of 9 and a mix of assorted tertiaries.
I ended up playing a good mix of lists. Game one I played Grey Knights with Draigo, Dreadknight Chapter Master, four razorbacks (2 assault cannon, 2 lascannon), two storm ravens and four strike squads. He won the roll to go first and between my BSS screen pushing the strikes back and some deployment between LOS blocking walls (we played ITC all first floors of ruins fully block LOS) he only managed to knock out one devastator squad. I killed a raven and a half between devs, HBs and smites while the seraphim and Celestine assaulted the two razorbacks that had advanced with assault cannons to take out their shooting. Turn one ended up seeing a lot of his firepower heavily negated and I went on to win with 31 out of 32 BP. Draigo survived until the bottom of five with a single wound left, denying me warlord.
Game two I played demons with two heldrakes, renegade knight, two demon princes, 12 hounds, 8 seekers, 40 demonettes and some blood letters. The mission was kill points with units worth points equal to their power level. He wasn't able to crack my screen efficiently (I had two BSS squads up, with the third behind them and no gaps to move between models) so I was able to kill everything except a unit of demonettes in his backfield on a maelstrom objective by the end of turn 3. He wasn't anticipating my ability to out melee him with the flagellents, Celestine and the marine captain when I needed to and Hector Rex is a big demon killing machine. Won with all 32 BP.
Game three I played drop scions supported by a knight in a progressive objective mission. It was hammer and anvil and we each had 3 objectives in our zone. I sacrificed Celestine and the seraphim on turn two to finish killing his knight and steal an objective for the turn, making it hard for him to come back on the primary. I was able to keep my BSS screen up until turn 3, forcing him to drop into no man's land far away from the objectives. Won with 30 out of 32 BP, having only scored 8 maelstrom with some bad draws and missing first strike after choosing to focus on degrading the knight.
Game four I played chaos with fire raptor, obliterators, berserkers, noise marines, whirlwind Scorpius, Ahriman, demon prince, 30 brims, 30 cultists and some other assorted characters. It was old school victory points for the primary. I ended up losing because Celestine charged the fire raptor with 3 wounds remaining and only wounded once. The surviving raptor then benefited from prescience and warp time to manage to kill two devastator squads on the bottom of five for a 500+ point swing (I missed the remaining 211 on the raptor and it scored him 330 points). Lost the game but managed to eek out 20 BP, scoring everything I could except warlord and line breaker.
Game five I played orcs in four objective crusade. His list was 3x 30 boys, 30 storm boys, 5 weird boys, zhardsnark, 4 nob bikers, 2 super skorchers, 5 mek guns and a KFF mek. It was a brutal back and forth game, with a turn one storm boy charge tieing up two of my screening units and one of the rets and the super skorchers are nasty at 4d6 S5, -2 hits per track. I ended up holding the line thanks to some timely acts of faith (I gave my locked in combat units a shooting phase to get extra rounds of bolt pistol fire) and the flagellants murdering two of the boy mobs that came forward (including the last group of ~20 survivors who could have won the game for him. Ended up with 32 battle points.
Finished 4-1 with enough battle points to place 3rd.
Some of the big points:
-I really liked having the 33 battle sister screen, but I think I need a few more bodies. Moral isn't an issue with the inquisitor around and a few more bases to block out assaults would have been clutch (especially in dawn of war against the orcs were I just ran out of table space to create depth).
-Consistently not having the +1 to go first wasn't a problem. Infantry are so easy to get cover for on the units that need it.
-I need to make a decision on the marine allies. The salamander devs are so good, but I'd really like some high quality shots at 72" which means looking at AM.
-Its not fluffy, but you absolutely need some mortal wound sources this edition and the supreme command detachment was great at it.
Great Job Mike!
I've been running a more pure sisters version of your list since BFS. I've been liking it. AM would be better for the heavy shooting in both your list and mine, but maybe we will see a points adjustment in a month or so that will help us stay more pure soon?
you may also want to split the BSS into 5 man units and then add 3 units of dominions to help give you more territory for screening. It does wonders.
My version
Spoiler:
HQ celestine 150
HQ cannoness, power sword/bp 49
HQ cannoness, storm bolter 47
Troops 5 sisters with bolters, condemnor 46
Troops 5 sisters with bolters, condemnor 46
Troops 5 sisters with bolters, condemnor 46
Troops 5 sisters with bolters 45
Troops 5 sisters with bolters 45
Troops 5 sisters with bolters 45
Elite imagrifier 40
Elite imagrifier 40
Elite imagrifier 40
Fast 5 dominions with bolters 50
Fast 5 dominions with bolters 50
Fast 5 dominions with bolters 50
fast 5 seraphim with 2 models with 2 melta 103
fast 5 seraphim with 2 models with 2 melta 103
Heavy 5 retributors with 4 heavy bolters 85
Heavy 5 retributors with 4 heavy bolters 85
Heavy exorcist, hk 166
Heavy exorcist, hk 166
Heavy exorcist, hk 166
Heavy exorcist, hk 166
HQ hereticus inquisitor with storm bolter 57
HQ hereticus inquisitor with storm bolter 57
HQ hereticus inquisitor with storm bolter 57
12 command points
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 22:47:24
@frgsinwntr: I like that variant. It seems really solid and looks like a great pure sisters mix. I'm torn on the smaller squads versus the larger ones because of how efficient acts of faith get but it looks like you mitigate that risk by having the possibility of 5. I'm hoping points on the exorcist go down and the damage becomes a straight 2 or 3. The d3 damage for the points makes it very marginal right now. Have you been using all 12 CP regularly?
Unit1126PLL wrote: What's worse is if they don't engage multiple units, then the unit that was engaged Falls Back with it's AOF and can still shoot them to pieces with the rest of the huge blob.
I don't think you can shoot if you Fall Back via AOF. Still, these are all good points.
Unit1126PLL wrote: What's worse is if they don't engage multiple units, then the unit that was engaged Falls Back with it's AOF and can still shoot them to pieces with the rest of the huge blob.
I don't think you can shoot if you Fall Back via AOF. Still, these are all good points.
Ah, you're right! My playgroup has been doing it where you only can't shoot if you fall back in the Movement Phase, but the game rules actually have no such restrictions. I'll tell them when I see them!
But yes, in that case, the rest of the huge blob can still shoot - one unit, likely damaged by the Fight Phase engagement that made them fall back, is no GREAT loss.
davidgr33n wrote: If Repressors go up in points will they still be top tier units for us? I guess it depends on points increase as well.
My lists are pretty heavy with minimal 6 Repressors carrying Dominions.
As long as they have fire points they'll be pretty good even if they go up in a points a bit. I'm more concerned with them losing their ability to fire out if the vehicle is engaged in combat. They might get limited to pistols like Ork trucks.
davidgr33n wrote: If Repressors go up in points will they still be top tier units for us? I guess it depends on points increase as well.
My lists are pretty heavy with minimal 6 Repressors carrying Dominions.
As long as they have fire points they'll be pretty good even if they go up in a points a bit. I'm more concerned with them losing their ability to fire out if the vehicle is engaged in combat. They might get limited to pistols like Ork trucks.
Are we still talking about Chapter Approved updates? I would think FW would handle their own points revisions unless we've heard otherwise...
There's a lame rumor from Natfka that says CA will have FW updates. It is almost certainly false.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
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@PanzerLeader: Great summary, and congrats. For my part, 12 CP have been great, and even better with CA strategems (maybe) on the way.
@Unit: thanks for the detailed rrsponse... that's exactly how and why I'm trying to layer my flamer and storm bolter squads as they move up the table.
@frogsinwinter: curious where you find most of your offensive punch, seeing that you've gone without many special weapon selections. Do the bolters do much, or is it mainly Exos, Celestine, Smite, and Inferno Seraphim?
@panzerleader, I agree. The exorcists need straight 2/3 dmg, or need to fire 2d6 shots.... and yes... I am finding that i use all 12 cps!
@MacPhail, most of the offense comes from heavy bolters double shooting from the imagrifiers or the 4 exorcists with hunter killers.... the goal is to win on mission however... and that doesn't require tons of firepower.... But vs aggressive opponents the inquisitors smite ftw... and the seraphim problem solve with their meltas.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/14 23:43:04
So just on topic of the FW Chapter Approved Rumor:
When I was at Nova, I met Pete Foley, and had 3 Stormhammer tanks. He liked the look of my army and told me so, which apparently was permission to chat a bit. We talked about Codex: IG, but the topic of Forge World came up (because my army was like ~90% Forge World) and he affirmed to me that some updates for the Forge World stuff was coming in Chapter Approved.
He may have just said that to appease my questioning of course, but I'm fairly certain that's where I heard it first (and I don't even think I started this rumor).
When I was at Nova, I met Pete Foley, and had 3 Stormhammer tanks. He liked the look of my army and told me so, which apparently was permission to chat a bit. We talked about Codex: IG, but the topic of Forge World came up (because my army was like ~90% Forge World) and he affirmed to me that some updates for the Forge World stuff was coming in Chapter Approved.
He may have just said that to appease my questioning of course, but I'm fairly certain that's where I heard it first (and I don't even think I started this rumor).
You might want to bring that to the CA thread.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
When I was at Nova, I met Pete Foley, and had 3 Stormhammer tanks. He liked the look of my army and told me so, which apparently was permission to chat a bit. We talked about Codex: IG, but the topic of Forge World came up (because my army was like ~90% Forge World) and he affirmed to me that some updates for the Forge World stuff was coming in Chapter Approved.
He may have just said that to appease my questioning of course, but I'm fairly certain that's where I heard it first (and I don't even think I started this rumor).
You might want to bring that to the CA thread.
I dun care that much, and honestly I'm afraid of being wrong. I don't want to get people's hopes up and then have been lied to / have a faulty memory (because then I get accused of lying! D.
So, I had a small game against Tyranids and I was wondering if we think their Codex changes our TAC lists and how we build against them. Is it worth taking 3x Penitent Engine or swaping a Repressor/s for an Immolator/s? Why don't we have snipers? Do we just not bother?
Lammia wrote: So, I had a small game against Tyranids and I was wondering if we think their Codex changes our TAC lists and how we build against them. Is it worth taking 3x Penitent Engine or swaping a Repressor/s for an Immolator/s? Why don't we have snipers? Do we just not bother?
What was your experience that led you to those specific considerations? I haven't played against them yet, but at a glance it looks sketchy. Seems like they got better access to invulnerable saves vs. our melta spam, and some very cool faction boosts to swarm lists, and as you point out, a sniperless army will be less able to exploit synapse. So it looks like greater challenges for us whether facing nidzilla or the gribbly farm, but maybe thats just index vs. codex.
I'm having some issues with psychers. I was wondering how Greyfax works with an otherwise all sisters army. Is she worth it, or should I stick with IG psychers?
.
