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Orlanth wrote:Some of the review blogs mentioned models Dave showed that were (apparently) in the rulebook but not yet on sale.

Are there unreleased units in the rulebook to share with us please.

I am wondering if the UCM get a flamethrower tank or an artillery system.

As far as i can see there are no units in the rule book that don't have models but from what I can remember Dave wanted to add more units in expansion books and via rules on the website to keep things fresh.

the Scimitar's the closest thing you get to UCM artillery short of the Kodiac Command's orbital strike, rules-wise and I dont see any models I dont recognise in the photos - although the Sabre and Rapier did make me double-take when mounted at an odd angle, so they could have been mistaken?

Or I could be, I don't claim an encyclopaedic knowledge of the DzC model range.

Some unreleased units get a call-out though - unique commanders with special abilities get mentioned as being released on the site later (we knew this from the livechat, but it's in the book too) and I dont see any faction's exotic units, so presumably they're for an expansion (Here's hoping for a Scourge-infested Shaltari Walker )


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Oh, apparently the Aged One upgrade is +18 points per stand, so 72 points - I may have to cut down or downgrade that Battlegroup after all...


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Oooh, could ditch the Aged ones detachment* entirely and spend the points on upgrading all 6 stands of my other Warrior detachment to Aged Ones - saving me about 80 points, giving me a total of 915 - plenty of change

Shame about losing an activation, but I'd only get a max of 5 in Skirmish anyway

Charax, this is awesome and so helpful! How many heavies can be in a squad? I hope at least 4, I bought 12

Cool that prowler swarms are a go

for scourge? slayers are 2/4/6 and tormentors are 2/4, so in a clash-sized Invasion host you can have 12 Slayers or 6 Slayers and 4 Tormentors (Tormentors are ridiculously good at clearing out buildings)

hey can you have an apc and a tank in a single dropship?

I thought I answered that in detail before.

TL;DR: No

O ok sorry for being anoying

Charax wrote:for scourge? slayers are 2/4/6 and tormentors are 2/4, so in a clash-sized Invasion host you can have 12 Slayers or 6 Slayers and 4 Tormentors (Tormentors are ridiculously good at clearing out buildings)

Awesome, thanks!

Also PM'ed you one additional question

Answered

Looks like we're done for the night, will pick up again in the morning.

Thanks for the Qs, peeps!

RiTides wrote:Charax, this is awesome and so helpful! How many heavies can be in a squad? I hope at least 4, I bought 12

Buying a massive army before seeing the codex.

Hey, looks like it worked out at least

With people slowly starting to get their books I am looking forward to seeing the appearance of eventual battle reports. I am curious to see how the different forces fair against one another.

Also, Charax, could you tell us how important vehicle facing is? Hawk has a template for it on his website under "game templates and tokens". I've noticed that the front facing is in green, the sides in blue, and the rear in red.

Updated list, as I added a few dropships to my Miniature Market order now that I know APCs and heavy tanks only fit 2 to a drop ship . Spoiler tagging since probably no one cares but me


Once again, thanks to Charax for all the info!!!


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Put together a sample 1999 point list for a Clash, based on what I've pieced together from this thread:

HQ: - 405
Master (commander) - 85
Desolator - 140
4 Prowlers in Intruder Beta - 60
8 Minders in 2 Intruder Betas - 120

Armour: 304
3 Hunters in Marauder - 146
3 Reapers in Marauder - 158

Infantry: 358
6 Warriors in 2 Intruders in Maruader - 237
2 Warriors in Intruder Alpha - 94

Special: 555
4 Slayers with 2 Razorworms in 2 Marauders - 370
2 Tormentors with 1 Razorworm in Marauder - 185

Special: 240
8 Prowlers in 2 Intruder Betas - 120
8 Prowlers in 2 Intruder Betas - 120

Fleet: 136
2 Corsair Fighters - 136

Total: 1971

Not totally sure how many warriors can fit in an Intruder Alpha, and whether you could choose to just take 2 stands of warriors in an Invader instead of 3. They add up quick! The list ended up a little heavy on armor, and a little light on troops and AA, I think.

Thoughts/Corrections/etc appreciated . I wonder if someone will be able to make files for this for army builder, or if the battlegroups will be too complicated for it?

I wonder if it is a good idea having that few basic tanks.

Doyou really hate Despoilers that much. Frankly they are one of the few miniatures in the Scourge that I really like, I am OK with the rest, but only the Desolator, Despoiler and Prowlers have any wow factor for me. Each to their own eh.

From what I see the Despoiler has the armament of a Slayer, so you get a 'free' heavy tank with each one. Tempted?

I actually don't mind despoilers, they're just pricey once filled up! Feels like an "all eggs in one basket" kind of thing.

Nightwolf829 wrote:Also, Charax, could you tell us how important vehicle facing is? Hawk has a template for it on his website under "game templates and tokens". I've noticed that the front facing is in green, the sides in blue, and the rear in red.

It's basically entirely for weapon arcs, there's no bonus for shooting someone in the rear

RiTides wrote:Not totally sure how many warriors can fit in an Intruder Alpha, and whether you could choose to just take 2 stands of warriors in an Invader instead of 3. They add up quick! The list ended up a little heavy on armor, and a little light on troops and AA, I think.

Warrior squads come in squad sizes of 2 or 3, the Intruder's an option at 2, the Invader's an option at 3, and a Marauder's an option if you have two Invader-mounted squads (so 6)

RiTides wrote:
Thoughts/Corrections/etc appreciated . I wonder if someone will be able to make files for this for army builder, or if the battlegroups will be too complicated for it?

I haven't used ArmyBuilder since they switched to their licensing model, I am making Battlescribe files though - it's a little bit complicated, but nothing that shouldn't be possible in AB, it's not significantly more complicated than Epic (which is why I keep calling battlegroups detachments)

Orlanth wrote:From what I see the Despoiler has the armament of a Slayer, so you get a 'free' heavy tank with each one. Tempted?

The despoiler Plasma Cannons are an Upgrade, cost nine points less than a whole Slayer and can't fire in the rear arc - so I guess it's up to you if you consider them worth it. That extra nine points buys you a lot of survivability, and the Slayer lets you get another unit of Razorworms, so if you're not tight on points I'd go with the extra tank, or both.

Charax wrote:
The despoiler Plasma Cannons are an Upgrade, cost nine points less than a whole Slayer and can't fire in the rear arc - so I guess it's up to you if you consider them worth it. That extra nine points buys you a lot of survivability, and the Slayer lets you get another unit of Razorworms, so if you're not tight on points I'd go with the extra tank, or both.

So one ought to model them with the gun turret off. As we only see them with turret on I assumed the gun was standard.

Is there a lower grade standard gun on a Despoiler? Also is the Marauder armament an upgrade also?

Is there a lower grade standard gun on a Despoiler? Also is the Marauder armament an upgrade also?

No (it's plasma cannon upgrade or nothing) and no (the plasma hose is standard armament).

Are there any other upgrades besides the above, and warriors to aged ones?

For the Scourge, only Razorworms.

For the UCM they have optional missile pods on all dropships, PHR have optional weapons on the strike dropships (it comes with nothing normally) and the Shaltari light grav tank has to choose between 2 options for its main gun.

That's all I can see for upgrades across all factions.

For scourge? Despoiler weapons, Heavy Tank Razorworms, Aged ones - that's it (if you dont count transport options as upgrades

And I guess Commanders "Upgrade" a unit too. Not a very upgrade heavy game - even the PHR walkers are distinct units rather than weapon options.

Ooh, that's interesting, the Triton PHR flyer is the only PHR unit with upgrades, and it has two - and they're not listed as mutually exclusive (they're probably supposed to be, though)

Riquende wrote:For the Scourge, only Razorworms.

For the UCM they have optional missile pods on all dropships, PHR have optional weapons on the strike dropships (it comes with nothing normally) and the Shaltari light grav tank has to choose between 2 options for its main gun.

That's all I can see for upgrades across all factions.

Interesting about the missile pods. Have they similar firepower and is it a replacement for the machine gun and does the upgrade price look good.
Ravens with teeth sound tempting.

Missile pods all have the same stats, do not replace machine guns and cost between 8 and 15 pts to equip, larger dropships paying more.


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Charax wrote:Ooh, that's interesting, the Triton PHR flyer is the only PHR unit with upgrades, and it has two - and they're not listed as mutually exclusive (they're probably supposed to be, though)

Why would they be mutually exclusive? Every Triton model Hawk has shown as both upgrades on it.

Riquende wrote:Missile pods all have the same stats, do not replace machine guns and cost between 8 and 15 pts to equip, larger dropships paying more.

Interesting. So the weapons are identical and price depends on the vessel. Hawk must believe that mounting missile on an Albatross is worth more due to survivability.
Hmm. I might magnetise underwing stores on the Raven A's gives them something else to do.


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Charax wrote:Ooh, that's interesting, the Triton PHR flyer is the only PHR unit with upgrades, and it has two - and they're not listed as mutually exclusive (they're probably supposed to be, though)

Why would they be mutually exclusive? Every Triton model Hawk has shown as both upgrades on it.

Orlanth wrote:Are the underwing chainguns upgrades?

Yes they are, both them (3pts) and the missile racks (25pts).

Riquende wrote:Why would they be mutually exclusive? Every Triton model Hawk has shown as both upgrades on it.

If it was intentional so be it, it's certainly not the strangest design decision in the book

I just meant it seems like an odd choice given that it significantly upguns the dropship and changes the role, it becomes roughly equivalent to a Falcon in points and firepower, while being more widely available and versatile.

and before you think of nitpicking that statement, we both have the rulebook, so pointing out every difference between the Falcon and the Triton would be redundant, wouldn't it?

What have I nitpicked before? Not sure what you're getting at tbh, I've just tried to answer questions from people who don't have the book.

I'd agree that the Triton and Falcon become largely comparable, but I don't see that it's more widely available - Falcons are Support choices and I can see plenty of places in the various battlegroups you could squeeze them in, whilst Tritons are dedicated troop transports & can only be taken with them.

That's one annoyance for PHR actually, there are no support choices at all, despite there being space for them in the army list. It'd by nice if the Phobos and/or Taranis could be considered Support, but I have to make room for my AA stuff by missing out on "tanks", which other factions avoid, and my ability to take "heavy tanks" is compromised if I want artillery.


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Actually, I did miss there that any heavy walker squad a Zeus joins becomes a command squad, so there's possibly options there for a massed, 2"-a-turn-moving, heavy walker assault.

Charax wrote:

Orlanth wrote:From what I see the Despoiler has the armament of a Slayer, so you get a 'free' heavy tank with each one. Tempted?

The despoiler Plasma Cannons are an Upgrade, cost nine points less than a whole Slayer and can't fire in the rear arc - so I guess it's up to you if you consider them worth it. That extra nine points buys you a lot of survivability, and the Slayer lets you get another unit of Razorworms, so if you're not tight on points I'd go with the extra tank, or both.

This goes both ways. 45pts is a lot, for just an upgrade. But on the other hand the Despoiler is a flyer and has several ?4? hit points. Its a nice chassis for a powerful gun, it gives further use to a heavy dropship, which look to me like a 'use once' proposition being a bulk transport. Furthermore the nine points extra for a whole new Slayer will require carriage of its own and another of its own kind etc and thus might be less convenient than to have a big gun floating in the air near the existing formation.

At 45pts it looks like a waste, but I think its too early to consider it a GWesque points cost brainfart.

Orlanth wrote:. But on the other hand the Despoiler is a flyer and has several ?4? hit points.

5.

If I may divert this discussion away from the rules briefly. I've been putting bits and pieces of my army together since yesterday evening and I have to say the resin Hawk Wargames have used is an absolute joy to work with. Cleaning up any flash is as simple as making a single pass with a file and tabs can be removed very quickly with a scapel.

Plus like they said it is strong and flexible, basically it's everything that GW's fincecast rubbish should have been.