Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls! (OP updated with previews)

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**Dionysodorus**

Warlock Conclaves are garbage. Easily the worst unit in the new codex. Like, at first I was about to write this post about how with jetbikes they seemed decent but probably not as good as Shining Spears, but then I realized I was thinking that Warlock Skyrunner Conclaves only cost 30 points per model, so that you're trading laser lances and a 3+ save for an extra wound and 3 psychic powers on big squads. So you could cut their price in half and I still probably would prefer another unit.

Compared to regular Warlocks, they cast everything other than Smite 1/3 as efficiently and don't get any character protection. The only possible reason to bring one is because you absolutely have to get off a Warlock power without getting denied and you're willing to pay 60 points and keep your Conclave parked in a Serpent until you need it.

**Lord Perversor**

DarknessEternal wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
I don't hate 3 of the Bonesingers in a list like mine where my intention is to use loads of fast attack vehicles (hornets) and wave serpents, war walkers, etc.

Bonesingers have to be within 3". They're going to have a hard time helping those things.

If i'm not mistaken the price drop in Axe and forcefield, makes the Wraithblades again the cheapest unit to field , put the Bonesinger inside one of those units and the enemy may need some serious firepower to take him down while remainning on the thick of battle.

**Amishprn86**

Yeah a Bonesinger next to a WK, or in a WS with Wraithguard could be nice.

**Niiru**

Kdash wrote:
Niiru wrote:
Kdash wrote:
bullyboy wrote:
When the codex drops, can we start tactica pages for each major Craftworld? May help stem the bloat

We can try

But, the man posting above you, Niiru, is currently building a tactica wiki style website which will initially be focused on Eldar.

On other notes - due to more list revision, i'm now up to 9 pyskers in my list...

I'm getting the impression i will be needing to spend 3CP each battle on infiltrating 2 units.

Haha hooray, already getting the word out! And I only got the domain sorted today :p

But within the next hour or so I'll have the draft of the main units tactica page uploaded onto the new domain, and I've started filling in some basic information. I expect some of it to be wrong of course, but over time as feedback happens and more discussions take place with the new codex, I'll continually update everything until people are happy with it. I'm sure there will always be disagreements, but I plan to have more than one 'option' for as many units that need it.

At the moment I have one long page with all the units in there. I will then probably set up a similar page, but with the 5 craftworlds on it. If it gets too cluttered I can split things up into seperate pages easily enough, but I can decide that after the information is written down as it's all pretty simple to move about as needed.

Oh, and the website will be TheWebway.org (after that being by far the most popular option haha). The domain exists now, but it's completely blank and will be until I transfer the files across. So watch this space, if you're interested in the progress.

Just to update on what I said earlier, the site is now live (though still in a barebones, first-draft kind of format). Been chucking in some varied ideas of formatting and things, but it's very much going to be a work in progress for a while obviously. If anyone has any feedback or suggestions, feel free to PM me on here. I'll probably have a direct contact form on the site at some point too, but that's not there yet.

**Cephalobeard**

DarknessEternal wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
I don't hate 3 of the Bonesingers in a list like mine where my intention is to use loads of fast attack vehicles (hornets) and wave serpents, war walkers, etc.

Bonesingers have to be within 3". They're going to have a hard time helping those things.

Between being inside a Wave serpent, disembark, and movement with advancing, it's not tremendously difficult to be within range during the psychic phase.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, not to beat the idea into the ground, but we're pretty certain vehicles are intended to gain access to Craftworld Traits, yeah?

**saint_red**

It's been confirmed that every unit with <CRAFTWORLD> will benefit. Phoenix Lords do not benefit but they don't remove the bonus if you include them in your detachment, same as how Fallen and Cypher work for CSM.

**Niiru**

Niiru wrote:
Just to update on what I said earlier, the site is now live (though still in a barebones, first-draft kind of format). Been chucking in some varied ideas of formatting and things, but it's very much going to be a work in progress for a while obviously. If anyone has any feedback or suggestions, feel free to PM me on here. I'll probably have a direct contact form on the site at some point too, but that's not there yet.

Just to add on to this, I've been putting things on the site but with slight variations in style (mostly on the tactica at the moment, there's 3 or 4 different styles/layouts). Any feedback on which seems to be the 'best' would be appreciated! ("They are all awful" is also a correct answer, if true haha)

Cephalobeard wrote:
Also, not to beat the idea into the ground, but we're pretty certain vehicles are intended to gain access to Craftworld Traits, yeah?

As far as we are aware, from everything we have seen so far, the Traits effect all units and vehicles. Wraithlords, Wave Serpents, Wraithknight, Infantry, all seem to be valid targets. It's pretty good, really.

Of course, we may end up finding a limit put onto it.

**Cream Tea**

Niiru wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
Also, not to beat the idea into the ground, but we're pretty certain vehicles are intended to gain access to Craftworld Traits, yeah?

As far as we are aware, from everything we have seen so far, the Traits effect all units and vehicles. Wraithlords, Wave Serpents, Wraithknight, Infantry, all seem to be valid targets. It's pretty good, really.

Of course, we may end up finding a limit put onto it.

I have access to the codex, the only exceptions to which models can gain the craftworld traits are the Phoenix Lords (who don't have the craftworld keyword) and any models that don't fulfil a specific craftworld trait's wording, such as a non-aspect warrior model without shuriken weapons in Biel-Tan. Vehicles definitely benefit.

Only Troops gain the obsec rule, of course.

Also, Niiru, the The Webway looks nice so far. Your work will be much appreciated.

**Niiru**

Cream Tea wrote:
Niiru wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
Also, not to beat the idea into the ground, but we're pretty certain vehicles are intended to gain access to Craftworld Traits, yeah?

As far as we are aware, from everything we have seen so far, the Traits effect all units and vehicles. Wraithlords, Wave Serpents, Wraithknight, Infantry, all seem to be valid targets. It's pretty good, really.

Of course, we may end up finding a limit put onto it.

I have access to the codex, the only exceptions to which models can gain the craftworld traits are the Phoenix Lords (who don't have the craftworld keyword) and any models that don't fulfil a specific craftworld trait's wording, such as a non-aspect warrior model without shuriken weapons in Biel-Tan. Vehicles definitely benefit.

Only Troops gain the obsec rule, of course.

Also, Niiru, the The Webway looks nice so far. Your work will be much appreciated.

Thanks, hopefully it ends up being helpful!

And I meant that we may end up having a limit placed upon our Trait, depending on how things end up, as a lot of Marine players are wondering why Eldar get universal traits while theirs only works on Infantry and Dreadnoughts. It might be the opposite though, perhaps Marines will get an FAQ expanding their traits to tanks too. Or maybe it'll all stay as it is for a reason. Time will tell!

**Cream Tea**

Niiru wrote:
Thanks, hopefully it ends up being helpful!

And I meant that we may end up having a limit placed upon our Trait, depending on how things end up, as a lot of Marine players are wondering why Eldar get universal traits while theirs only works on Infantry and Dreadnoughts. It might be the opposite though, perhaps Marines will get an FAQ expanding their traits to tanks too. Or maybe it'll all stay as it is for a reason. Time will tell!

I misunderstood then. I certainly hope they don't end up excluding the grav tanks from traits as the Falcon chassis was what got me into 40k in the first place.

I wouldn't mind Marine vehicles gaining chapter tactics, I felt it was weird they didn't.

**IronSlug**

Hey guys. I'd like to start a Saim-Hann force because I love this craftworld fluff and I'd like to kitbash my elves for them to have a "savage" look.

So what about Saim-Hann in the codex ? I know their special rule, which is fluffy but not amazing, and their warlord trait, which is really meh. I'm not competitive so I don't care that much.

But do they have other things ? Relic ? Specific stratagem ?

**Kdash**

IronSlug wrote:
Hey guys. I'd like to start a Saim-Hann force because I love this craftworld fluff and I'd like to kitbash my elves for them to have a "savage" look.

So what about Saim-Hann in the codex ? I know their special rule, which is fluffy but not amazing, and their warlord trait, which is really meh. I'm not competitive so I don't care that much.

But do they have other things ? Relic ? Specific stratagem ?

Their stratagem is 1CP and allows a unit to charge if they advanced. They also gain re-rolls to hit of 1 in the fight phase of the turn they use the stratagem.

Relic is basically a stronger Lance. Still str 6 when shooting (i believe) but when you charge it is str 8 for the first round of combat and rolling a 6 to hit (maybe wound) causes additional mortal wounds.

**IronSlug**

Kdash wrote:
IronSlug wrote:
Hey guys. I'd like to start a Saim-Hann force because I love this craftworld fluff and I'd like to kitbash my elves for them to have a "savage" look.

So what about Saim-Hann in the codex ? I know their special rule, which is fluffy but not amazing, and their warlord trait, which is really meh. I'm not competitive so I don't care that much.

But do they have other things ? Relic ? Specific stratagem ?

Their stratagem is 1CP and allows a unit to charge if they advanced. They also gain re-rolls to hit of 1 in the fight phase of the turn they use the stratagem.

Relic is basically a stronger Lance. Still str 6 when shooting (i believe) but when you charge it is str 8 for the first round of combat and rolling a 6 to hit (maybe wound) causes additional mortal wounds.

Okay... As I get it, Saim-Hann is really not in a good place right now, is it ?

**Redemption**

The Novalance of Saim-Hann is a laser lance with a 12" range shooting attack, and is S+2 when not charging and S8 when charging. In addition, any attack with a wound roll of 6+ deals 4 damage instead of 2. It's pretty nice.

And while their trait probably isn't as good as the -1 to hit from Alaitoc, with the massive cost reductions you can't really say any of the craftworlds are not in a good place. They'll all work plenty well.

I play Saim-Hann as well, and I'm looking forward to using Wind Riders and Vypers for mobile heavy weapons, an Autarch Skyrunner warlord with the nova lance with a Shining Spears bodyguard, backed up by some skimmer support in the form of Fire Prisms and Wave Serpents loaded with Wraith Guard.

With the cost reductions it's relatively easy to get 8CP in a 2k list without hampering yourself, so you can use plenty of the new powerful stratagems.

**IronSlug**

Great thank you. It's only a matter of time before I jump on the jetbike.

**Shadenuat**

Twin shuriken catapults cost moneys (1/2 shuriken cannon). :( My dream of a jetbike horde armed with rending storm bolters not to be.

**Kdash**

Redemption wrote:
The Novalance of Saim-Hann is a laser lance with a 12" range shooting attack, and is S+2 when not charging and S8 when charging. In addition, any attack with a wound roll of 6+ deals 4 damage instead of 2. It's pretty nice.

And while their trait probably isn't as good as the -1 to hit from Alaitoc, with the massive cost reductions you can't really say any of the craftworlds are not in a good place. They'll all work plenty well.

I play Saim-Hann as well, and I'm looking forward to using Wind Riders and Vypers for mobile heavy weapons, an Autarch Skyrunner warlord with the nova lance with a Shining Spears bodyguard, backed up by some skimmer support in the form of Fire Prisms and Wave Serpents loaded with Wraith Guard.

With the cost reductions it's relatively easy to get 8CP in a 2k list without hampering yourself, so you can use plenty of the new powerful stratagems.

Thanks - i could remember the exact details on the lance!

I'm not feeling Saim-Hann Windriders, if i'm honest. Vypers however, definitely benefit. I just don't feel like the Scatter laser is worth it - especially when you can advance and still shoot normally with the Cannon whilst also potentially having some -ap.

I too am looking at an Autarch, Shining Spears and some Vypers for a small Saim-Hann detachment in my 2k list.

**IronSlug**

I don't see the BIKER keyword in my index for the Vyper. Has it changed in the codex ?

**Redemption**

Yeah, it was added.

**admironheart**

Galef wrote:
Kdash wrote:

I'm getting the impression i will be needing to spend 3CP each battle on infiltrating 2 units.

Which really blows since that's nearly half the CPs that most Eldar lists will likely have and it doesn't even give you a 1CP:1unit return ratio, nor does it allow you to use the "deep strike" stratagem to make up for it.

Well with Rangers and Dire Avengers I'm planning on running 2 Battalions and 1 Spearhead for 10 cp. I could go with 1 Brigade and 1 Vanguard, but that leaves very little wiggle room.

**Kdash**

admironheart wrote:
Galef wrote:
Kdash wrote:

I'm getting the impression i will be needing to spend 3CP each battle on infiltrating 2 units.

Which really blows since that's nearly half the CPs that most Eldar lists will likely have and it doesn't even give you a 1CP:1unit return ratio, nor does it allow you to use the "deep strike" stratagem to make up for it.

Well with Rangers and Dire Avengers I'm planning on running 2 Battalions and 1 Spearhead for 10 cp. I could go with 1 Brigade and 1 Vanguard, but that leaves very little wiggle room.

I thought about running 2 battalions, but, with the amount of psykers i want to run, i can't free up space for more troops while keeping them all

I've made some further admendments to the list on the previous page - i'd somehow copied some numbers across wrong from one sheet to my list building sheet

however, it's in a good way, as i've now been able to add in a 5 man shadow spectre unit, and only at the cost of singing spears!

**Drake003**

Managed to fit in a Ynarri Brigade and an Alaitoc Battalion, while still taking key units like Hemlock, Shadow Spectres, Dark Reapers, Singing Spears, Wave Serpent, Wraithguard, Rangers etc.

Need to play test it for efficacy, but looks decent and that's a lot of CPs!

**em_en_oh_pee**

Drake003 wrote:
Managed to fit in a Ynarri Brigade and an Alaitoc Battalion, while still taking key units like Hemlock, Shadow Spectres, Dark Reapers, Singing Spears, Wave Serpent, Wraithguard, Rangers etc.

Need to play test it for efficacy, but looks decent and that's a lot of CPs!

..............HOW?!

**Drake003**

Ynarri detachment using 6 x 5 man Kabalites for the troop tax and 2 of the 3 fast attack being a single Razorwing flock. The rest of the Brigade are your usual suspects so 2 x 5 man shadow Spectres, 1 x d-scythe unit, 1 x 4 man Shining Spears. Used 3 x 3 Dark Reaper units to make up the Heavy options So still 9 overall, though no big unit.

Alaitoc is made up of Farseer, Warlock on foot, 3 x 5 man Ranger units, Wave Serpent (for the 3 Dark Reapers to start in along with the characters from the 2 detachments) and a Hemlock to benefit from the extra -1.

Takes a bit of juggling but heck that's 15 CPs, I can webway both Shadow Spectre units, stick all Dark Reapers and 3 of the 4 infantry characters with them.

Plus I love the idea of DS shadow Spectres, quicken them into flamer range and the WotP on them to get them to shoot twice.

**em_en_oh_pee**

Drake003 wrote:
Ynarri detachment using 6 x 5 man Kabalites for the troop tax and 2 of the 3 fast attack being a single Razorwing flock. The rest of the Brigade are your usual suspects so 2 x 5 man shadow Spectres, 1 x d-scythe unit, 1 x 4 man Shining Spears. Used 3 x 3 Dark Reaper units to make up the Heavy options So still 9 overall, though no big unit.

Alaitoc is made up of Farseer, Warlock on foot, 3 x 5 man Ranger units, Wave Serpent (for the 3 Dark Reapers to start in along with the characters from the 2 detachments) and a Hemlock to benefit from the extra -1.

Takes a bit of juggling but heck that's 15 CPs, I can webway both Shadow Spectre units, stick all Dark Reapers and 3 of the 4 infantry characters with them.

Plus I love the idea of DS shadow Spectres, quicken them into flamer range and the WotP on them to get them to shoot twice.

That is a lot of stuff. Impressive achievement. Not my cup of tea - I am going for just Alaitoc Battalion, Alaitoc Spearhead and maybe an Ulthwe Supreme Command... if I can fit it all in.

**Galef**

Drake003 wrote:
Ynarri detachment using 6 x 5 man Kabalites for the troop tax and 2 of the 3 fast attack being a single Razorwing flock

I sadly must be the one to inform you that single Razorwing flocks are not legal. the Index FAQ have errata's their pts cost to be 14ppm and minimum 3 flocks per unit.

**Drake003**

Thanks Galef. I remembered the 14pts each but forget the min unit size. Still, with a tweak on the numbers, can still make the list work. There other cheaper options for Fast Attack in Drukhari Index.. Khymerae I believe are the next cheapest fast attack slot on balance. 10 points each min 2 per unit.

**Cephalobeard**

I cannot stop obsessing over running 2x3 Hornets, but just came to the unfortunate realization that they don't ignore the -1 penalty for advancing and firing. This makes me feel like they're slightly less effective, but the notion of being -3 is still far too attractive.

**Niiru**

Cephalobeard wrote:
I cannot stop obsessing over running 2x3 Hornets, but just came to the unfortunate realization that they don't ignore the -1 penalty for advancing and firing. This makes me feel like they're slightly less effective, but the notion of being -3 is still far too attractive.

I thought they could advance and shoot their shuriken cannons without a -1 to hit?

Think they can also get the vehicle upgrade that lets them move and shoot heavy weapons without a -1, but they can't advance so they wouldn't get their extra -1 to hit.

I just realised it's a bit confusing that the buff and the debuff are both called "-1 to hit" lol. By advancing as a Hornet, you gain a "-1 to hit" AND a totally different "-1 to hit".

**Cephalobeard**

Yeah, exactly.