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fresus wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
with LVO now done there is a lot of chatter to nerf the elder. Yet it was almost all ynarri with only 1 real elder near the top.

I think that's a bit disingenuous, as all the Ynnari list I've seen near the top were almost pure craftworlds, and all had pure craftworlds detachment. Also, the heavy lifters of these Ynnari lists were usually dark reapers and/or shining spears, supported by stratagems from the craftworlds codex.

Incorrect. The heavy lifter are Words of the Phoenix Dark Reapers and Soul Bursting Shining Spears. Neither of which exist in Craftworld.

Greetings from a Tyranids player.

Can someone give me some insights on how I deal with a list with 30 dark reapers? One big squad for buffs, and a bunch of little squads with tempest launchers, hiding or in wave serpents.

I don't run Flyrant spam; my list has 2 of them.

Thanks!

 Marmatag wrote:

Can someone give me some insights on how I deal with a list with 30 dark reapers? One big squad for buffs, and a bunch of little squads with tempest launchers, hiding or in wave serpents.

100 Genestealers

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

Can someone give me some insights on how I deal with a list with 30 dark reapers? One big squad for buffs, and a bunch of little squads with tempest launchers, hiding or in wave serpents.

100 Genestealers

I should have mentioned i'm looking for take-all-comers solutions, in a tournament landscape.

And, i'm not convinced that would work all that well, unless you've got a ton of LOS blocking terrain.

I haven't found melee to be a viable counter to them, simply because you'll never get there. The second firing profile with 2 shots is really problematic for me, as are the tempest launchers. Couple this with the fact that your big squad can move, shoot, and then for 1 cp, move 7 more inches away, really compounds the problem. Wave serpeants are great at counter charging - i can't fall back and advance, as you don't always kill serpents in melee... and then they'll bail out of combat and reapers light you up.

My current solution has been shooting with indirect fire. 5 hive guards can do 10 shots with 3+, reduced to 4+ from alaitoc, so i am killing ~5 reapers a turn. Not amazing, but also helps soften things for deep strikers, which are my Tyrants.

 Marmatag wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

Can someone give me some insights on how I deal with a list with 30 dark reapers? One big squad for buffs, and a bunch of little squads with tempest launchers, hiding or in wave serpents.

100 Genestealers

I should have mentioned i'm looking for take-all-comers solutions, in a tournament landscape.

Prepare for disappointment, then. You're wanting a list custom-made to counter something very strong, yet also wanting a generic list to beat *everything* that's very strong from every faction. Figure out the answer and then you can go win the next set of tournaments.

Yup Biovores and Hive Guard I almost have no counter with my eldar
You put those 2 units in your backfield and screen them. You basically remove 2 MSU Dark Reaper units per round.

I'm guessing after round 2 you probably have over half removed from those 2 units alone.

Indirect fire is perfect for taking down Dark Reapers

...100 Genestealers is probably still the best thing you've got going for you. Kraken, naturally.

Simply put, Reapers are greatly undercosted, and have access to buffs that are far too powerful for their capabilities. The fact that Reaper spam ended carrying Eldar at LVO and other events is not surprising at all.

 admironheart wrote:
Yup Biovores and Hive Guard I almost have no counter with my eldar
You put those 2 units in your backfield and screen them. You basically remove 2 MSU Dark Reaper units per round.

I'm guessing after round 2 you probably have over half removed from those 2 units alone.

Indirect fire is perfect for taking down Dark Reapers

This has been my strategy so far. Although, i have dropped the Biovores. It's just a really brutal list to deal with. I was hoping there was some trick I hadn't thought of. Hive guard are hyper vulnerable because of no invuln and a 4+.

It's also compounded by the fact that things I absolutely must bring to survive - like Venomthropes - are dead points against Reapers.

I have to stay out of LOS as long as possible. The second firing mode is what kills me so badly. Those guys are going to pump out 40-45 shots that just shred T3/T4 models, and laugh at FNP because of multi-damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fafnir wrote:
...100 Genestealers is probably still the best thing you've got going for you. Kraken, naturally.

Simply put, Reapers are greatly undercosted, and have access to buffs that are far too powerful for their capabilities. The fact that Reaper spam ended carrying Eldar at LVO and other events is not surprising at all.

Yeah, but i mean every tournament is basically a highlight reel of undercosted models. There's a reason everyone runs reapers, mortar teams + guard chaff, oblits, commanders, etc. Reapers do stand alone though in terms of undercostedness. But i'm not complaining, i'm just here looking for solutions.

 Marmatag wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

Can someone give me some insights on how I deal with a list with 30 dark reapers? One big squad for buffs, and a bunch of little squads with tempest launchers, hiding or in wave serpents.

100 Genestealers

I should have mentioned i'm looking for take-all-comers solutions, in a tournament landscape.

What isn't TAC about 100 Genestealers? It beats everything.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

Can someone give me some insights on how I deal with a list with 30 dark reapers? One big squad for buffs, and a bunch of little squads with tempest launchers, hiding or in wave serpents.

100 Genestealers

I should have mentioned i'm looking for take-all-comers solutions, in a tournament landscape.

What isn't TAC about 100 Genestealers? It beats everything.

It really doesn't, though... but thanks for your help. I think I got what i needed from this thread.

 Marmatag wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
Yup Biovores and Hive Guard I almost have no counter with my eldar
You put those 2 units in your backfield and screen them. You basically remove 2 MSU Dark Reaper units per round.

I'm guessing after round 2 you probably have over half removed from those 2 units alone.

Indirect fire is perfect for taking down Dark Reapers

This has been my strategy so far. Although, i have dropped the Biovores. It's just a really brutal list to deal with. I was hoping there was some trick I hadn't thought of. Hive guard are hyper vulnerable because of no invuln and a 4+.

It's also compounded by the fact that things I absolutely must bring to survive - like Venomthropes - are dead points against Reapers.

I have to stay out of LOS as long as possible. The second firing mode is what kills me so badly. Those guys are going to pump out 40-45 shots that just shred T3/T4 models, and laugh at FNP because of multi-damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fafnir wrote:
...100 Genestealers is probably still the best thing you've got going for you. Kraken, naturally.

Simply put, Reapers are greatly undercosted, and have access to buffs that are far too powerful for their capabilities. The fact that Reaper spam ended carrying Eldar at LVO and other events is not surprising at all.

Yeah, but i mean every tournament is basically a highlight reel of undercosted models. There's a reason everyone runs reapers, mortar teams + guard chaff, oblits, commanders, etc. Reapers do stand alone though in terms of undercostedness. But i'm not complaining, i'm just here looking for solutions.

Might seem strange, but what about a 2 6 man hive guard squads in 2 tyrannocytes? Bit of a points sink, but provides the first turn protection/protection until the Reapers get out the Wave Serpents, and then allows you to drop down (i believe RAW currently, Reapers would have to target the Tyrannocyte with Forwarned rather than the Hive Guard - drop pod faq i think?) either in LoS or outside of it, or in cover. You can then nuke the big squad, and maybe split fire with the 2nd group to finish off the big squad/target a couple of the min squads.

Things like Genestealers will 100% ensure you have the space to deep strike the pods as well as clearing away any Ranger screens they may put up.

I'd also make sure the Hive Tyrants are Kronos to really put the pressure on the Eldar psykers.

Will turn into a bit of a "soup" hive fleet list, but would probably do well in most situations.

At LVO it did not seem the Guard did well. I think that is more due to the ITC secondary and such point system.

I would like to see how many of the top 8 had to fight Guard lists. Sometimes players get a lucky break and squeak by lists that are difficult for them.

What about the Trygon....if another unit jumps out....is that the same as a drop pod or not for targeting with forwarned as per the FAQ?

30 Reapers - meet 10 Banshees.

No overwatch, no cover, no save. Is this too simple?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
30 Reapers - meet 10 Banshees.

No overwatch, no cover, no save. Is this too simple?

You want to counter reapers with banshees?
The problem is to deliver them. Deep striking is difficult as you need to be out of LoS, and get quicken to charge on the turn you arrive. Wave serpents are great, but can't survive heavy dark reaper shooting.

Banshees with quicken could get in turn 1 on foot if deployed after the big reaper unit. More likely they will get shot to bits before they do jack though.

Why can't Wave Serpents survive Dark Reaper shooting? With Serpent shield and Spirit Stones they would be in with a good chance of doing so.

If you had multiple advancing Wave Serpents with Vectored Engines for protection against non Dark Reaper shooting you could easily get there.

Wave Serpents I guess counter Dark Reapers in a way because they reduce damage making them far less effective.

You have turn 1 and he has reapers in serpents or reserve. :(
You have turn 2 and hide your banshees behind terrain. Tempest launcher. :(
You manage to position banshees in serpent closer than 30'' and get quicken off. You may have a chance.

The potential danger may lead to errors in play of the reaper player or it may take someone by surprise. I think it' s a decent option but probably not at top tournament tables.

I mean... if it's that important to kill one Reaper squad with Banshees....

It takes nearly 30 Reaper shots to down a Serpent with Stones, it has pretty good odds of survival. Besides, odds are you have something more generally scary for them to shoot at.

Banshees hop out 3", move+advance 14", Quicken for another 14", average 10" charge should get you locked into anything.

even without quicken you get an average 27 inches with the 6" stratagem. Plus 12" deployment....that equals 39" of the 48" board with no quicken. You should be in the enemy lines easy at that point.

so he has screeners. shoot those with your other units and mortal wounds from psykers. clear a path for Assaults.

It's a fun counter but one that can be difficult to pull off correctly, though thankfully Banshees and a Serpent with Stones don't eat up so many points that they would ruin a list.

 admironheart wrote:
so he has screeners. shoot those with your other units and mortal wounds from psykers. clear a path for Assaults.

The problem with this tactic is that movement (and psychic phase) happens BEFORE shooting. So if you are relying on clearing the screeners, it will be after they've done their job already.
For Example:
Let's say the Reapers are deployed about 2" from their board edge. They've also deployed a unit of Rangers around 12" in front of the Reapers, let's assume enough to prevent "going around". That means the closest your Banshees can get to the Reapers in the movement phase is 14" (because the width of the Ranger's base +1" to stay away from enemy models)
The only way to "clear the screeners" at this point is to waste Psychic powers on them so that you can effectively use Quicken to move the Banshees through the hole you hopefully created, but you will still likely have to go around some survivors because only a stupid player would make it that easy for you.

It's hardly a reliable tactic. What would be better is to A) hope for first turn and B) move the Serpent forward to assault the screening unit.
This would not only get the Serpent closer than it could by Advancing (2D6 roll instead of 1D6) but it forces the screen to clump up a bit, thereby reducing their effectiveness next turn.
But the downside is, the Reapers will still get at least 1 turn to shoot.

Don't get me wrong, Banshees could work really well against Reapers, but there is clearly a lot that has to go in their favor, and most of that is going to be the opponent making a mistake (i.e. not having screeners guarantee their safety from assault on turn 1)

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Hello all

I've heard that Autarch Skyrunner/ banshee mask + 9 Shining Spears are a powerful combo

Can someone explain to me how to properly use this combo to maximize its potential?

Thank you

I have quite a lot of Eldar but since I don't play Alaitoc or have a single Dark Reaper or Shining Spear, I look forward to seeing the epic nerf those models will receive! It won't affect me at all. However, with recent tournament results I'm sure I'm going to get the eye roll about my army because everyone loves to hate on Eldar.

up

FarseerReborn wrote:
Hello all

I've heard that Autarch Skyrunner/ banshee mask + 9 Shining Spears are a powerful combo

Can someone explain to me how to properly use this combo to maximize its potential?

Thank you

...Fly them into something and kill it? There's not a whole lot to explain here, Shining Spears are pretty straightforward. Just stick them with the pointy end.

 Fafnir wrote:

FarseerReborn wrote:
Hello all

I've heard that Autarch Skyrunner/ banshee mask + 9 Shining Spears are a powerful combo

Can someone explain to me how to properly use this combo to maximize its potential?

Thank you

...Fly them into something and kill it? There's not a whole lot to explain here, Shining Spears are pretty straightforward. Just stick them with the pointy end.

One layer you can add to this is to charge with the Autarch first, as they cannot overwatch on him. Get him "stuck in" and then charge with the Spears.

Also, with such a large unit, you can charge just 1 unit, then pile into multiple other units, again negating overwatch.

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 bullyboy wrote:
I have quite a lot of Eldar but since I don't play Alaitoc or have a single Dark Reaper or Shining Spear, I look forward to seeing the epic nerf those models will receive! It won't affect me at all. However, with recent tournament results I'm sure I'm going to get the eye roll about my army because everyone loves to hate on Eldar.

Wonderful anecdote that really drives the tactical discussion. I greatly appreciate your input

Heroic intervention with my SM Captain.

Many, many dead Spears. Or even just a countercharge next turn.

9 is overkill. 4 is fine.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Heroic intervention with my SM Captain.

Many, many dead Spears. Or even just a countercharge next turn.

9 is overkill. 4 is fine.

Agreed, if your goal is to KILL with the Spears. One of the things that makes Spears so good is that while they certainly kill stuff, another strength they have is being able to quickly engage multiple targets.

4-5 Spears is fine for killin', but 9 Spears is what you need to shut down half the armies shooting.
Move them forward, split their shooting to kill/weaken several targets, then charge units with good shooting, pile into others. At that point it doesn't matter if they kill all their targets, so long as their targets can no longer shoot/charge as they'll have to fall back

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Edit, forgot the waveserpent.