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could we do this with any success?

http://consumerist.com/consumer/complaint-letters/how-to-launch-an-executive-email-carpet-bomb-259713.php

Also, boycott their events for one year (but still do the local ones),  and let's buy as much used GW products as possible off of ebay, or trading forums.

if we veteran gamers could organize this globally, they would have no choice but to listen to us.

It's just a thought, but I know that with my expenses going up (especially fuel), I have less and less to spend on GW, and they continue to jack up prices, giving me no choice, but to basically end buying their products or services until they get more reasonable.

Anyways, I don't want to rant, but we did see some success with this when they came out with the infamous Tyranid faq, we might not be able to change their business plan, but then again we might.

Thanks!

If you boycott their events, they're just as likely to assume that their customers don't want events at all as they are to actually get your point.

I imagine that GW will only listen to you if you speak with your wallet, and even then they may not hear you. Quit buying their stuff. I did.

I have too.

Even with us voting with our wallets, they still aren't getting it, though.  I don't want the company to fail, I just want them to realize why we're upset with them.

by the way, tomk@games-workshop.com seems to be a good email address.  I sent an email to it about 10 minutes ago, and it hasn't bounced back...

so let's email the person in charge, he can't ignore the numbers if we all do it.

What exactly do you want them to hear? Assuming this idea works perfectly and GW is going to try and please its customers, what are they going to do? I don't think they know how to do it.

If boycotting were to be sucessful and caused GW to drop prices, you still have the problem of unbalanced rules and childish writers. The fact that their rulebooks cannot balance the game on their own, and force players to make random judgement on which armies are balanced and which are broken, leads me to doubt GW's ability to please all facets. I'm with blue loki, stop buying but not because you want GW to change, but because you want a change from playing GW.

For every event you skip, *I'm* going to buy two tickets to the events. For every piece of GW product you don't buy, I'll get 5 (even the Chaos Possessed).

So your little plan won't work.

Yeah, maybe you're right, maybe I'm being naive, but I still think there are so many of us who want GW to hear why we are dissatisfied, and have somebody who actually cares read it. 

Price is one aspect for me, but a very close second is the decline in quality over the last few years.  I just want them to hear that from as many of us as possible.

Hey, what do we have to lose?  emails and words are free.

I have the following suggestion:  If you guys REALLY want to organize something...

Designate a day where everyone goes into their local GW outlet (not a FLGS or an online retailer) and buy a Battle for McCragge or Battle for Skull Pass (or both!)  Preferably at the end of month.  A week later, everyone goes back to the GW outlet and returns them on a previously appointed day.

The 1000s of Skull Pass / McCragge sales might go unnoticed by management (doubtful)... but 1000s of simultaneous returns might not.

Either that or ship them to Nottingham.  That might be amusing as well.

Posted By dienekes96 on 05/24/2007 9:09 AM
For every piece of GW product you don't buy, I'll get 5 (even the Chaos Possessed).

You can have 'em!  lol!

If it's at all possible for GW to get the wrong message from your "boycots" they will. One only has to look at the track record of other companies such as WizKids to see the evidence of how this works.

You really want to make a difference?  Talk to the investment groups that own GW stock, and convince them that GW's management is screwing up.  It's tough, but it'd be your best shot.

Me?  I'm way too lazy to do that.

 

 

Uhm I can see being upset about the rules. Complaining about the prices will do nothing. A company has the right to charge what it wants for its products. You have the right to not buy. Your post smacks of whininess about the prices.

Fuel prices going up...guess what...that means plastic prices are going up. I was on tabletopgamingnews.com the other day and some miniature company announced a price increase due to pewter prices going up. Are we seeing a price increase from GW? Not on the vast majority of products.

It has been rehashed over and over and over again, but except for command models, GW's prices are comparable to most other games. Now what they need is a writer and an editing crew who can clearly define what a rule truly means.

GW will only respond to consumers when it really hits their pocketbooks. Right now GWUS is doing well, and they expect the European market to bounce bank and Japan to explode and match the US...so I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Best to just quit the hobby or enjoy the gaming.

 

 

 

 

Hey, a$$hole, ellipses do not indicate the end of a sentence.

 

Who are the Lost and the Damed by the way?

Posted By General Hobbs on 05/24/2007 11:59 AM

 

Q: Who are the Lost and the Damed by the way?

A:  GW's Veteran gamers

Fixed is what they are, Second Lieutenant Hobbs.  Let's see you man up and do the same.

 

 

I'm surprised at the hostility. What is making you so angry?

Buy shares, attend the annual general meeting and complain.

Buy enough shares and you can take over the company.

Don't think of GW as your old friend that doesn't like you any more, who you can get back somehow. They're a company that's there supposedly to make money and nothing else counts with them.

Remember that the stuff you loved in GW games came from yourself. GW supplied the figures, rules and fluff but you painted everything, made up scenarios and played the games with your real friends.

GW isn't the only games company in the world. There's a huge number of alternatives ranging from pre-packaged SF skirmish (AT43) to 6mm Napoleonics to 15mm Ancients and Fantasy. And they are all cheaper than 40K and have better rules.

Sounds like the old joke: Your plan involves making a large fortune so that
you can buy into gaming in order to make a small fortune.

 

 

Something else to consider. The people here on Dakka Dakka who angry are probably a minority. The angry veterans are also a minority. There are probably alot more happy customers out there who play the game for fun ( shouldn't we all?) understand that models cost money, and aren't unhappy or upset. Are most of these customers kids? Again, probably.

But I know a ton of adults who also fit that bill.

Hakuna Matata....why stress out over things you can't control.

 

Posted By General Hobbs on 05/24/2007 11:29 PM

Something else to consider. The people here on Dakka Dakka who angry are probably a minority. The angry veterans are also a minority.

Hobbs... have you been living on Bizzaro world?  Dakka has a minority of angry veterans?  Dakka has a minority of veterans!???!

You might be right outside of Dakka... but here, the hate flows freely.

"Your hate has made you powerful.  Now, release your anger!" - Emperor Palpatine

The problem is people have stoped buying thier product if thier quarterly reports are any indication and GW still is not getting the message. As for myself I stopped buying after thier first price increase and buy all my stuff on B-town or trade for it. Unless thiers a new model I absolutley have to have. Even then I see newer models up on B-town almost the following week. I probably only buy about two White Dwarfs a year and this started around the time they started cramming LOR crap down our throats.  As for the angry veterens comments and them being a minority.  There is a classic philosophy that word of mouth is your best sales tool and veteran gamers sell games.  They become your crack pushers and push the product on new gamers.  No, no, you don't want that GW crack try this PP crack it's much better.

Posted By keezus on 05/25/2007 6:37 AM

Hobbs... have you been living on Bizzaro world?  Dakka has a minority of angry veterans?  Dakka has a minority of veterans!???!

To be fair, and although I don't agree with him, that's not what Hobbs said at all. Please read posts more carefully.

Not to get into the flame thats starting, but its absolutly correct that if you were to get enough shareholders to listen to you, something would happen. How much do you have to own to be effective? (Of course the problem child owns 60% of the stock, so its a rather mute voice.)

What will probibly happen is either a hostile takeover, or a sell off. Either of the two is not going to solve the problem, and unless the shareholders are ready to take a major bite of the bullet, there will be an effective blind leading the blind issue of continuing to take from peter to pay paul.

I say this because the shareholders up to this point are being payed thier dividends because of the slow and sure method of eroding those stores and positions of low and mid level employees, and instead of paying saleries, shareholders are being paid the fired and sold off asset money instead.

Angry players are not a factor in these decisions, and the only thing driving the bus is the $$$.

If you look at what all of the " authorities of the game" from Jervis Johnson, to Gavin the Gimp, to Dumbass Kirby himself, They all are under the impression that what they have to say actually matters, but what they do is the thing that does the real talking.

I agree whole hearted that $$$ is the only way that the game will change, or anything akin to an improvement in thier business sense will be made. When they take a deep enough loss, shareholders will eventually be the voice calling for change. Until then, if you are a low level employee of GW, you should get your affairs in order and have another fall back job ready for the next round of cuts.
To continue to think that the whole issue is over is childish, and that the grass roots gamer that just crys about it and doesn't have an effective, unified front will not do the trick.

1. Buy up stock in this company, and then start making your voice heard.

2. Contact others that own enough stock and give them a well thought out and non-emotional conversation and your synpose about the future of the company, because without consumers, this bag is loosing air. If you have a petition, or you have some facts and figures, then that gives your argument weight. If you really want to see how the game is played, you don't need to buy or not buy figures, you need to buy shares.

3. Go to the press and go with the route that GW has put out a faulty product and possibly sue them for the deficiency, and go the same route as what happens when someone sells you a bad product. If an aspiring buisness lawyer were to go at this, they could quite effectivly make change alright, but I don't believe for a second that it would be the change that you expect.

4. This company is a dog.Personally,I feel that there is alot of shenanegans that seem to go on behind the scenes, and I do not believe that they are worth the effort of trying to do anything with other then dying a bloody death of a game company that is well past its glory days and won't do the smart thing and change with the market. I do not believe the need for all of the splinter companies, or the needless effort that is spent on trying to convince millionaires that they need to change thier ways. I also don't believe that you guys would stoop so low as to attacking each other over the issue of a game company that is going the way of so many other ones that were as close to or if not better then GW.


If the tools that run GW want to continue to foolishly prance around like a bunch of prats, why bother with them. Let them convince you why they should be taken seriously. Don't berate them, ask them to clarify thier position and engage them with conversation. Flood thier E mails, send them letters, send them boxes and boxes of thier product back and start sueing them for defective product and see what falls to the floor.

Of course they don't care, but you won't be able to say you didn't try, and you gave them numerous chances to try to win you back. I don't feel the need to try to engage them after reading through the laughable trite over on Warseer, and that they would rather baffle fanboys with bullsh** then engage in the serious business of falling back, regrouping and retooling the game for another ten years. They are wrong, they gave up control of thier product and do not have any reason to try to fix the issues that they clearly do not believe that they have.Anything out of these guys mouth is not worth serious wieght, and they are well past the point of being " one of us" games, they are company guys, well entrenched into thier company and will continue to spout the company line and act as if the issue is you, the veteran game.

Take a step back fellas, its not worth going at it with each other over.

Posted By General Hobbs on 05/24/2007 2:00 PM

 

 

I'm surprised at the hostility. What is making you so angry?

Give in to your hate Hobbs, it will make you powerful. >

 

What I am really interested in is finding out why people A. think GW is doing a bad job and B. why the anger over the prices.

 For point A, as I have stated before, GWUS is in profit, and they expect GWEurope, which is where they had the losses, to rebound. And they have not yet tapped GWJapan. So since the company is actually doing well and has an enormous upside, it musn't be that poorly led.

For point B. It has been rehashed over and over again, but GW's prices are comparable to almost all the other game companies that are considered competition.

What they do need to do is tighten up the rules and hire a techinical writer.

The idea btw that GW sells a faulty product and is worthy of a lawsuit is pure silliness.

 

 

 

 

I have heard several times young teenagers saying they are quitting the game or will not start the hobby because Jervis Johnson wants to nerf Space Marines.

Point A: Making a profit does not require good leadership. Just short term goal management.

Point B: GW sets the standard for pricing for the industry. The competition is following in the path GW has set. Why? Because part of the core audience has proven they will continue to buy regardless of the price. Those who aren't willing either move on to other things or play with older figs.

Personally what I have seen is a pool of over a dozen 40k gamers moved on to other games, we now have 4 40k players. Disenchantment with the rules, prices, and GW's lack of interest in veterans has turned them away. At my LGS the GW wall of product just lost 12 feet of space to Warmachine. FOW and Warmachine dominate my LGS.

Posted By Crimson Devil on 05/25/2007 12:06 PM
At my LGS the GW wall of product just lost 12 feet of space to Warmachine. FOW and Warmachine dominate my LGS.

Quoted for truthiness!  At my FLGS, Warmachine is outselling GW by about 10x before the leagues started and outselling GW by about 20-30x now that the leagues are in full swing - and this is depsite offering a generous discount on GW product!

As said above (nods to Hobbs) GW could do wonders by hiring a technical writer.

Half the problems with the rules are simply confusion and ambiguity.

The pricing issue is another matter, but I am not convince GW -- though expensive -- is prohibitively so. Historicals always have been and will remain cheaper. The direct competition is games like AT43 and Infinity.

Its much simplier to go back to RPG's or play warmachine or hordes.