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 nullBolt wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
It's been mentioned quite a few times by other in this thread who have watched the movie.

You can figure stuff like that out when you read threads before posting in them.

Seriously, man, I'd go sit down and examine your reaction at people criticising the movie. It's always a good idea not to fall into rampant consumerism and fanboyism.

Meh. It's just the price someone has to pay for having actual discussions about this movie since before it came out and since the day it was released only to have someone new post every couple pages with the same "OMG, I just watched the most anticipated movie that came out last week and I have these totally original thoughts that nobody else could have possible already talked about and I'm going to post these arguments which ignore stuff that actually happened in the movie" stuff.

That's all.


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 George Spiggott wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Well, Rey told him the gun turret was down the ladder.

Maybe having a second turret which is on the top is a modification to the standard corellian freighter design and so she wouldn't have known about it?

Or perhaps she did know about the upper gun but it was damaged or otherwise inoperable? I don't think we ever see it fire in the film.

Really? She knows all the ins and outs about the hyper drive but failed to spot the huge blasters on the roof? Don't be silly.

If there was something wrong with them there should have been some dialogue to support that.

I think it was purely an artistic choice to set up the break and pull up maneuver, nothing more or less.

 d-usa wrote:
Meh. It's just the price someone has to pay for having actual discussions about this movie since before it came out and since the day it was released only to have someone new post every couple pages with the same "OMG, I just watched the most anticipated movie that came out last week and I have these totally original thoughts that nobody else could have possible already talked about and I'm going to post these arguments which ignore stuff that actually happened in the movie" stuff.

That's all.

That's fair enough, it's just that there is a lot of problems with the film.

I honestly don't have any problem with Rey being "strong in the force" since I'm hoping she's some sort of First Order sleeper agent and that'll be the twist in the second film. Honestly, if that was the case it'd blow all my criticisms away just because of how great it'd be.

 nullBolt wrote:
Just rewatched it and some things were really glaring.

- Bastila Shan, I mean, Rey was a horrible Mary Sue. I mean, really, come on. At least have some sort of a character flaw.

She has a character flaw : she is afraid of the implications of her visions when holding the lightsaber. Denial of her destiny and all. Had it not been for Finn picking up the saber and keeping it handy, the fight against Kylo would've gone completely differently.

I don't disagree that there are problems, but I do think that most of the problems are the same problems that have been present in all the other 6 movies and are just Star Wars things at this point.

 d-usa wrote:

 nullBolt wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
It's been mentioned quite a few times by other in this thread who have watched the movie.

You can figure stuff like that out when you read threads before posting in them.

Seriously, man, I'd go sit down and examine your reaction at people criticising the movie. It's always a good idea not to fall into rampant consumerism and fanboyism.

Meh. It's just the price someone has to pay for having actual discussions about this movie since before it came out and since the day it was released only to have someone new post every couple pages with the same "OMG, I just watched the most anticipated movie that came out last week and I have these totally original thoughts that nobody else could have possible already talked about and I'm going to post these arguments which ignore stuff that actually happened in the movie" stuff.

That's all.

I just wanted to know where she understands wookie from , my question was original. (As fas as I know, the only discussion of the movie I've had is this thread [not counting post movie watch with friendos ])

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 nullBolt wrote:
Just rewatched it and some things were really glaring.

- Bastila Shan, I mean, Rey was a horrible Mary Sue. I mean, really, come on. At least have some sort of a character flaw.

She has a character flaw : she is afraid of the implications of her visions when holding the lightsaber. Denial of her destiny and all. Had it not been for Finn picking up the saber and keeping it handy, the fight against Kylo would've gone completely differently.

 d-usa wrote:


This also extends to her being afraid to leave the planet and wanting to go back to her life there because she is holding on to a past and the hope she had created for herself there.

And ties in with her having developed an attachment to Finn that goes beyond what would be expected given the amount of time they passed togheter. In the end, it's only thanks to Finn that she gets to fulfill her destiny, all of her "force sensitivity" or whatnot would've been for nothing had he not been there to show her the way with his mega-balls of ceramites.

Seriously, tho. Finn for President 2016.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 nullBolt wrote:
Just rewatched it and some things were really glaring.

- Bastila Shan, I mean, Rey was a horrible Mary Sue. I mean, really, come on. At least have some sort of a character flaw.

She has a character flaw : she is afraid of the implications of her visions when holding the lightsaber. Denial of her destiny and all. Had it not been for Finn picking up the saber and keeping it handy, the fight against Kylo would've gone completely differently.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:
She has a character flaw : she is afraid of the implications of her visions when holding the lightsaber. Denial of her destiny and all. Had it not been for Finn picking up the saber and keeping it handy, the fight against Kylo would've gone completely differently.

Denial of destiny is a very standard Hero's Journey step. It's not so much a character flaw as a standard storytelling device.

 d-usa wrote:
This also extends to her being afraid to leave the planet and wanting to go back to her life there because she is holding on to a past and the hope she had created for herself there.

These aren't character flaws, these are character traits.

A character flaw is something like Ned Stark's honour making him blind to dishonourable actions. That's a fatal flaw. I don't really expect anything as drastic as that, but characters do need flaws.

Like her hope of "dad will finally buy his pack of cigarettes and come back from the store" making her ignore the fact that she actually made it out of her depressing life and learning that the legends of her childhood are true and that she is part of them?

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 nullBolt wrote:
Just rewatched it and some things were really glaring.

- Bastila Shan, I mean, Rey was a horrible Mary Sue. I mean, really, come on. At least have some sort of a character flaw.

She has a character flaw : she is afraid of the implications of her visions when holding the lightsaber. Denial of her destiny and all. Had it not been for Finn picking up the saber and keeping it handy, the fight against Kylo would've gone completely differently.

Was that not her hoping whoever had left her was coming back, so she wanted to get back in case 'they' turned up?

As the follow up is Maz telling her she already knows nobody is coming for her.

Edit:

- first she makes it off the planet and wants to go back.
- then Han offers her a job as second in command, but she wants to go back
- then she gets a light saber and has the force calling for her, but she wants to go back

 d-usa wrote:

This could have been sloppy writing, but I think it was intentional to make you ask the question you are asking and to get viewers to speculate and wonder where she learned it. I'm guessing that the clues in the movie point to them having history, but we won't find out until the next movie or the books and comics coming out between them. I think it's fun to have unknowns between movies.

I agree it's fun to have unknowns, but I feel she has too many and that they are all going to be neatly summed up in "She's a Skywalker, was training under Luke, etc".

Which for me, kinda defeats any character development she has. Any "Why can she do this, get's neatly summed up with "She's a Skywalker, was training under Luke, etc". "

 d-usa wrote:
Like her hope of "dad will finally buy his pack of cigarettes and come back from the store" making her ignore the fact that she actually made it out of her depressing life and learning that the legends of her childhood are true and that she is part of them?

That's much more a method of endearment than anything else, especially since it gets out of the way so quickly and doesn't cost her anything.

If she'd've lost a hand from it, that'd've been different.

And it's even a character flaw with consequences, as she literally runs away and gets captured.

 nullBolt wrote:

Denial of destiny is a very standard Hero's Journey step. It's not so much a character flaw as a standard storytelling device.

Nope, it's a flaw. A stronger person would've accepted the implications of her vision and her duty toward the Force and the galaxy as a whole.

That it helps to drive the story forward doesn't prevent it from being a fault in her character.

Do we know for certain that Ren was the Jedi that destroyed Luke's school, might it have been Rey? Luke doesn't look overjoyed to see her at the end of TFA.

 nullBolt wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Like her hope of "dad will finally buy his pack of cigarettes and come back from the store" making her ignore the fact that she actually made it out of her depressing life and learning that the legends of her childhood are true and that she is part of them?

That's much more a method of endearment than anything else, especially since it gets out of the way so quickly and doesn't cost her anything.

If she'd've lost a hand from it, that'd've been different.

In the last fight scene I just wanted everyone to lose a hand, would have improved it vastly

 Peregrine wrote:
And it's even a character flaw with consequences, as she literally runs away and gets captured.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:
Nope, it's a flaw. A stronger person would've accepted the implications of her vision and her duty toward the Force and the galaxy as a whole.

That it helps to drive the story forward doesn't prevent it from being a fault in her character.

It's a flaw that pretty much every heroic character has, then. :p

From Wikipedia:

Refusal of the Call
Often when the call is given, the future hero first refuses to heed it. This may be from a sense of duty or obligation, fear, insecurity, a sense of inadequacy, or any of a range of reasons that work to hold the person in his or her current circumstances.

Campbell: "Refusal of the summons converts the adventure into its negative. Walled in boredom, hard work, or 'culture,' the subject loses the power of significant affirmative action and becomes a victim to be saved. His flowering world becomes a wasteland of dry stones and his life feels meaningless—even though, like King Minos, he may through titanic effort succeed in building an empire or renown. Whatever house he builds, it will be a house of death: a labyrinth of cyclopean walls to hide from him his minotaur. All he can do is create new problems for himself and await the gradual approach of his disintegration."

Anyway, again, it pretty much works out immediately for her when she starts using Jedi mind tricks and all that business. It's only a flaw if it's negative and consistently negative. If she shirks her duty always (hint: she doesn't) then it'd be a flaw.

I just want to establish that flaws and mistakes are different. Flaws are character traits that are consistently negative. Alcoholism that interferes with the character's ability to function, chivalrous behaviour that messes up the character's ability to do stuff (Harry Dresden), arrogance that means the character does not see the actions of those they consider below them.

Maybe we didn't see enough of Rey for her to have any flaws, but I doubt it. The film was two hours long. They could've done a lot more.

 TheSilo wrote:
Do we know for certain that Ren was the Jedi that destroyed Luke's school, might it have been Rey? Luke doesn't look overjoyed to see her at the end of TFA.

I think he was more pissed off to see his lightsaber again.

 TheSilo wrote:
Do we know for certain that Ren was the Jedi that destroyed Luke's school, might it have been Rey? Luke doesn't look overjoyed to see her at the end of TFA.

We know nothing about what happened to the new Jedi academy. All we know is that the book indicates that Kylo knows Rey.

Luke's tears at the end could have many different explanations. Sadness over his friend who just died, sadness over being reunited with his daughter/niece/former pupil, general sadness over the horrible state of affairs in the galaxy, sadness over having to risk again to train a pupil that may just end up falling to the dark side again...

People have jumped on the family ties explanation, which is fine because it's a SW trope, but there's a lot of alternative.


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 nullBolt wrote:


Anyway, again, it pretty much works out immediately for her when she starts using Jedi mind tricks and all that business. It's only a flaw if it's negative and consistently negative. If she shirks her duty always (hint: she doesn't) then it'd be a flaw.


I think he was more pissed off to see his lightsaber again.

Huh, a flaw is only a flaw if it cannot possibly be corrected? So a good character must be absolutely incapable of character growth, in order to be a good character? Thats beyond ridiculous, but if you think you'll make a better screenwriter with those insane theories, go ahead, I'm sure I'll avoid your films like the pestilence.

1. Beats up 4 guys.
She was for all intents and purposes an orphan abandoned on an inhospitable planet at a young age forced to fend for herself.
She's a force sensitive, which is a HUGE advantage in a fight.
She is probably the daughter of the guy on the right, so she might have been raised by a Jedi and received some Jedi training before she was abandoned.

Luke was raised by farmers and had a relatively sheltered life.
Luke is also force sensitive, but was sheltered all his life and never really tested. He didn't undergo a trial by fire like Rey did.

2. Knows more about the MF than Han.

No don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n Sherlock. She grew up on the same planet where it was left to rust for years(?) - its practically in her backyard.
She's a skilled and respected scavenger on a planet littered with old starships, and therefore would have learned a fair bit about starship and droid mechanics over the years.
Hell, a wrecked Star Destroyer was probably a playground to her.
And she had a working relationship with the guy who owned the Millenium Falcon - he might have hired her at some point to do some maintenance work on the MF.
She calls it junk because it is junk - how many times do we see things breaking down or exploding, or failing at a critical moment? Her original choice of escape transport was a more modern craft in a better condition, but that was blown up by TIES. The MF is almost a century old by this point. She didn't want to try to escape in a ship that is likely to break down.

Luke...was a farmer and part time pilot who flew an airspeeder as a hobby. There were no starship graveyards on his planet for him to explore, play in, scavenge and experiment in. He might know droid mechanics, but he does not know starships.

3. First time she flies at all she out maneuvers TIES.

How do we know its the first time? Is it ever explicitly stated? She lived for decades on a planet littered with starships. Its not inconceivable that she came across at least a couple still in working order.
She crashes the MF several times.

Granted, this is one of the more credible arguments.

4. Instantly skilled with a light sabre and beats Kylo Ren.
I think she was raised from birth to be a Jedi until she was abandoned. What little training she received is coming back to her.
She learned to defend herself from a young age with other melee weapons, and has the transferrable skills to learn quickly.
Kylo Ren was not actively trying to kill her. He didn't even want to injure her, he wanted to capture her and train her.
Kylo Ren was already injured, and he is far from a competent fighter himself. Kylo Ren is no Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker.

Luke was not raised as a Jedi by Jedi parents.

5. Instantly knowledgeable about Jedi stuff.
Rey knows all sorts of rumours and legends about the Jedi from the beginning, so she was aware of their rumored capabilities.
It takes trial and error for her to pull off a mind trick.
A lot of what she does is probably instinctive, because she was very likely raised as a Jedi and received Jedi youngling training. Those memories and training are ingrained in her subconscious.

Luke was completely ignorant about the Jedi and believed his father was just some civilian pilot.
He didn't know anything about the capabilities of Jedi, everything had to be spelled out to him. If you don't know that its possible to do something (e.g. Telekinesis), how can you actively attempt to do it?

6. Instantly trusted by the Resistance to go find Luke even though they don't know her.
I think some of them do know her (Han and Leia?), especially if she's family.
They know she's force sensitive, who better to go find the Last Jedi than someone who ...
a-has proven their loyalty and character,
b-has the force sensitivity to be trained by said Last Jedi to become the second to last Jedi,
c-and may even have a family connection to said Jedi?

The point about "Han and Leia covering Luke's ass in the rescue mission" is a false analogy, comparing how Rey is respected and trusted at the end of Ep7 to how Luke is not respected and trusted at the beginning of Ep4.

7. Speaks Droid and Wookie.
So? That might be explained in the next film.
Is it really so inconceivable that she simply encountered droids and wookies and other aliens over her decade and a half of fending for herself on Jakku and taught herself or was taught?
Wookies were used as slaves by the Empire. For all we know a contingent of Wookie slaves might have been present on an Imperial ship shot down over Jakku and some of them might have chosen to settle down there.

Why does Luke no longer need C3PO to translate for R2D2 after Ep4? Clearly he learned to communicate with R2 off screen in the time between Episodes. Why is it conceivable for Luke to learn a language in 2 or 3 years, but inconceivable for Rey to learn a language in 15 years?

8. Instantly liked and trusted by everyone.

The Jakku crimelord/businessman doesn't like her.
She saves Finn's life. He likes her. Big surprise.
Han almost certainly knows her identity - shes clearly a Skywalker.

Yes Han and Leia did not like and respect Luke to begin with. But they didn't know him.
But Obi Wan and Yoda did know him - and therefore looked at him in a different light. They knew what he was capable from the beginning, so to them he was never just some annoying naive little kid.

A lot of these criticisms are based on false equivalences. Rey and Luke are not the same character, regardless of their superficial similarities. Their origins are not the same, they did not have the same upbringing. There are a lot of unanswered questions with Rey, but we should be waiting and seeing instead of instantly writing her off and slating her as a Mary Sue simply because every single facet of her character and aspect of her backstory has not been spelt out to us in the first movie of a trilogy.

Its premature to call her a Mary Sue.

 TheSilo wrote:
Do we know for certain that Ren was the Jedi that destroyed Luke's school, might it have been Rey? Luke doesn't look overjoyed to see her at the end of TFA.

We know it was a boy at the least. Everything else is technically implied by visuals and other dialogue. No one ever says Ren did it. The scene of him in the rain with the Knights, surrounded by bodies is assumed to be the Jedi academy but.. it's a vision.

Nope, it's a flaw. A stronger person would've accepted the implications of her vision and her duty toward the Force and the galaxy as a whole.

No, it's really not. The Refusal of the Call is a trope that demonstrates the hero is actually about to attempt something difficult. That this is important, that there will be consequences. To identify to the audience what most people would do. The hero shares these doubts and trepidation but in the end, goes into danger anyway. Because that's what heroes do.

In Rey's case she doesn't really understand yet- the vision was jarring, nightmarish at times and obviously intrusive. There's every reason for her to reject this blatant, in your face telepathic demand.

And it's even a character flaw with consequences, as she literally runs away and gets captured.

No she doesn't. She runs away a short distance and has a chat with BB-8.

Then she runs back to the fight.

She runs from Stormtroopers, who report her position. She tells BB-8 to go on without her and then again runs back into the fight.

She is not captured running away from her Call. She's captured running back to it. Had she simply continued to run initially, instead of going back, the Stormtroopers would likely never have encountered her or reported her to Ren. Her capture is not because she rejects the call, but because when she saw those ships pass overhead, she accepted it and went back into the fight. Like any good hero should.

But even if you did define this as a 'flaw' this is the same kind of 'consequence' as the fuses. She accidentally releases the monsters but in doing so saves Han and Chewie. They're out gunned 5:1 and worse yet they're trapped in a crossfire. Rey's action saves them. It also then provides her another shot to save Finn. Same with her capture. The 'consequence' of her capture is she learns to mind read and how to do Mind Tricks. That's it. No one dies, she doesn't lose anything of value, no opportunity is lost, she isn't even hurt.

The thing most damaged by her capture was Ren's ego.

 nullBolt wrote:
It's a flaw that pretty much every heroic character has, then. :p

Welcome to Star Wars. At least 90% of Star Wars is repackaging standard character and plot archetypes. And really, a character flaw is no longer a flaw if it isn't a special snowflake idea that is never seen in other characters?


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 Kojiro wrote:
Had she simply continued to run initially, instead of going back, the Stormtroopers would likely never have encountered her or reported her to Ren. Her capture is not because she rejects the call, but because when she saw those ships pass overhead, she accepted it and went back into the fight. Like any good hero should.

On the other hand, if she hadn't run away at all she wouldn't have been captured because she wouldn't have been alone and vulnerable.

But even if you did define this as a 'flaw' this is the same kind of 'consequence' as the fuses. She accidentally releases the monsters but in doing so saves Han and Chewie. They're out gunned 5:1 and worse yet they're trapped in a crossfire. Rey's action saves them. It also then provides her another shot to save Finn. Same with her capture. The 'consequence' of her capture is she learns to mind read and how to do Mind Tricks. That's it. No one dies, she doesn't lose anything of value, no opportunity is lost, she isn't even hurt.

But by this standard hardly any characters ever have flaws, because the hero eventually overcomes their mistakes.

 Kojiro wrote:


No, it's really not. The Refusal of the Call is a trope that demonstrates the hero is actually about to attempt something difficult. That this is important, that there will be consequences. To identify to the audience what most people would do. The hero shares these doubts and trepidation but in the end, goes into danger anyway. Because that's what heroes do.

In Rey's case she doesn't really understand yet- the vision was jarring, nightmarish at times and obviously intrusive. There's every reason for her to reject this blatant, in your face telepathic demand.

- It's a flaw
- No, it's a trope!



By all that is good and sane in this world, a thousand woes on TVtropes for turning everyone with access to the internet into a critique!


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 Kojiro wrote:
To identify to the audience what most people would do.

... Because you would not want super-powers? Because, in an age that has been fed Marvel and DC Comics super-drama for 60+ years, not everyone would love to have super-powers???

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
[
Its premature to call her a Mary Sue.

Most of your points are fair and square, but...they don't really rebutt the thesis that she's a Mary Sue. Her author decides on her entire backstory and if he writes a backstory that makes her a Mary Sue...then she's a Mary Sue...

Do we know for certain that Ren was the Jedi that destroyed Luke's school, might it have been Rey? Luke doesn't look overjoyed to see her at the end of TFA.

Luke is not overjoyed to see her because he believes himself to be an abject failure. The New Jedi Order that he founded was obliterated, his Padawans massacred by his own nephew. He was not actively watching over Rey on Jakku like Obi Wan was with Luke, waiting for the day when he would begin Rey's training. He's more Yoda than Obi Wan - he sought out a lost Jedi Temple and became a hermit, meditating and living out his days in solitude. And along comes this young idealistic novice, seeking him out.

Luke is not overjoyed to see Rey because he did not want to be found. Or at least, was very reluctant to be found.

4) Every character is going to be Han Solo : Funny enough, this is the truest of his predictions... because two characters are "Han Solo"... Finn and Han Solo! JJ tried to reintroduce elements that were part of the story in the 4-5-6 trilogy but never introduced in the films, such as Han's defection from the stormtrooper corps through Finn's defection.

Poe is also a bit of a Han Solo swashbuckler type (especially when you read the novelization and the romance being set up between him and Rey in the book).

PG-13 violence : You expect a bloody SW? Really?

This one actually had more blood than any other Star Wars film, with the exception of ANH.

Also, the understanding wookie thing... seriously... I think Rey is a poorly written character, but her ability to understand wookie isnt he reason why.

Why does Finn not speak with an Imperial (ie British) accent? Literally every other person in the First Order does and we can see he was raised by the First Order from birth.

This is particularly curious considering Boyega *IS* English, but I guess this is because in Star Wars only the bad guys have accents... except Rey, Rey has an accent.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:


No, it's really not. The Refusal of the Call is a trope that demonstrates the hero is actually about to attempt something difficult. That this is important, that there will be consequences. To identify to the audience what most people would do. The hero shares these doubts and trepidation but in the end, goes into danger anyway. Because that's what heroes do.

In Rey's case she doesn't really understand yet- the vision was jarring, nightmarish at times and obviously intrusive. There's every reason for her to reject this blatant, in your face telepathic demand.

- It's a flaw
- No, it's a trope!



By all that is good and sane in this world, a thousand woes on TVtropes for turning everyone with access to the internet into a critique!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kojiro wrote:
To identify to the audience what most people would do.

... Because you would not want super-powers? Because, in an age that has been fed Marvel and DC Comics super-drama for 60+ years, not everyone would love to have super-powers???

Technically it is a character. By the standard defintion and by character charts. She is flawed with that idea.

The heroes journey makes it into a trope. But the character possessing it is technically possessing a flaw.

Luke is not overjoyed to see her because he believes himself to be an abject failure. The New Jedi Order that he founded was obliterated, his Padawans massacred by his own nephew. He was not actively watching over Rey on Jakku like Obi Wan was with Luke, waiting for the day when he would begin Rey's training. He's more Yoda than Obi Wan - he sought out a lost Jedi Temple and became a hermit, meditating and living out his days in solitude. And along comes this young idealistic novice, seeking him out.

More evidence of her not being a mary sue.

Most people try to prematurely say "Oh she is a mary sue because of this."

But starwars has always been about subtlety so it is no surprise most don't catch it their first viewing.


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 Sigvatr wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
[
Its premature to call her a Mary Sue.

Most of your points are fair and square, but...they don't really rebutt the thesis that she's a Mary Sue. Her author decides on her entire backstory and if he writes a backstory that makes her a Mary Sue...then she's a Mary Sue...

Not exactly. If a character has flaws, and has the abilities said for a better reason "Explaining why they have this and that." Then no she isn't a mary sue. By most peoples definition of the word she isn't.

If it is explained then she isn't. She is not a self inserition or 1 dimensional character. Maybe a 2 dimensional character. But not a mary sue. The entire argument of mary sue is a fallacied argument that is based on your own perception of that character. Not of a unified idea.

chaos0xomega wrote:

4) Every character is going to be Han Solo : Funny enough, this is the truest of his predictions... because two characters are "Han Solo"... Finn and Han Solo! JJ tried to reintroduce elements that were part of the story in the 4-5-6 trilogy but never introduced in the films, such as Han's defection from the stormtrooper corps through Finn's defection.

Poe is also a bit of a Han Solo swashbuckler type (especially when you read the novelization and the romance being set up between him and Rey in the book).

I saw Poe as the Wedge stand-in. Mostly from the fact that he cares about the Resistance instead of just being a lovable rogue, and is a lot less of a negative figure than Han in the 4th episode.

I'll also be deeply saddened if Rei doesn't end up with the galaxy's most ballsy janitor. Or, alternatively, if mister balls of steels doesn't transform the Resistance into his personal harem. The dude deserves it.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:



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 nullBolt wrote:


Anyway, again, it pretty much works out immediately for her when she starts using Jedi mind tricks and all that business. It's only a flaw if it's negative and consistently negative. If she shirks her duty always (hint: she doesn't) then it'd be a flaw.


I think he was more pissed off to see his lightsaber again.

Huh, a flaw is only a flaw if it cannot possibly be corrected? So a good character must be absolutely incapable of character growth, in order to be a good character? Thats beyond ridiculous, but if you think you'll make a better screenwriter with those insane theories, go ahead, I'm sure I'll avoid your films like the pestilence.

The main reason we go to watch movies is to see someone overcome something unless you are literally making a Lovecraftian book. Where the main character is lost to madness or dies at the end. Good movies and stories have the main character change and overcome obstacles. The main character needs to grow or else why the hell would we watch them.

A character that does not overcome stuff and is staganat or faces things and doesn't become better, or (worse) then why would we care? ITs boring stagnant uninteresting.

The question I always tell new readers and writers. "Is it compelling? Is it interesting? What goes on with these characters that would drive me to keep reading or watching?"

I beat half the people here couldn't write a screenplay. Not saying you can't write a screenplay, but a compelling one? one that would sell alot of money?

PRobably not. because it is a very hard skillset and one that takes a tremendous amount of luck.