JimOnMars wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
What are the best solutions for removing a small screen before we Da Jump on turn 1?

I got a psyker spell, burna bomma bomm, Kopta bomb

What would you choose? I am talking about removing 5 scouts in my movement or pyshic phase.

It is very difficult, unless the scouts are close. If so, Smite is probably your best, especially if you can get the +3 for being near 30 boyz. Try doing that with 3 weirdboyz and there is a good chance at least one of them will get the D6 smite, on which you might burn a re-roll. If you can get off 3 smites they are probably dead.

 greggles wrote:
Quackzo,
Agree. I tried doing a teleporter of 3 deff dreads, and they got into each others way. 2 worked a bit better, but at that point, might be better to just save the cp and walk/advance them with the trike as an additional table threat.

Getting the triple deff dread teleporta to work properly requires careful clearing of their incoming deep strike zone, something that is difficult to do given their overall size. (and still have all three within charge range)

Could even do 4*BigShoota

OK so perhaps a gorkanaut would be better suited (and Oh the joy for all the Ladz to see that big fat walker appear from
nowhere and ram its target ! Turn 2 Waaagh !)

addnid wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
What are the best solutions for removing a small screen before we Da Jump on turn 1?

I got a psyker spell, burna bomma bomm, Kopta bomb

What would you choose? I am talking about removing 5 scouts in my movement or pyshic phase.

It is very difficult, unless the scouts are close. If so, Smite is probably your best, especially if you can get the +3 for being near 30 boyz. Try doing that with 3 weirdboyz and there is a good chance at least one of them will get the D6 smite, on which you might burn a re-roll. If you can get off 3 smites they are probably dead.

Any ork comp list hitting 2000 points should have 3 weirdboys. 3 garanteed Smites (as you say one should hit the magical d6) and one jump for under 200 points is amazing. Just like the 31 point mek gun, they are undercosted IMHO (by 10 points I'd say, probably no more)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 greggles wrote:
Quackzo,
Agree. I tried doing a teleporter of 3 deff dreads, and they got into each others way. 2 worked a bit better, but at that point, might be better to just save the cp and walk/advance them with the trike as an additional table threat.

Getting the triple deff dread teleporta to work properly requires careful clearing of their incoming deep strike zone, something that is difficult to do given their overall size. (and still have all three within charge range)

I wanted tro try that my next game but I hadn't thought about this... OK so perhaps a gorkanaut would be better suited (and Oh the joy for all the Ladz to see that big fat walker appear from
nowhere and ram its target ! Turn 2 Waaagh !)

crzylgs wrote:Tagging on to the 3*DeffDread Tellyporta discussion. How about dropping 2*4CC weps. Commit these to the best positions for getting a charge off and 1*4ranged weps. Could even do 4*BigShoota if you think there will be more chaff to clear or KMBs if you want to sit there and plink away at something tougher. Either hoping the rest of your army will keep enemy tied up In CC, or if they do charge it then its probably a decent distraction fex even without any real CC threat.

greggles wrote:
Getting the triple deff dread teleporta to work properly requires careful clearing of their incoming deep strike zone, something that is difficult to do given their overall size. (and still have all three within charge range)

greggles wrote:Quackzo,
I'm really hoping the Meka dread drops in points in chapter approved. If it drops a similar amount to the other big dreads, it might be one of the better teleporta options. Of course it's already pretty fast (mega charga), so who knows. Gorkanaut is beastly, but so many points to hold back till turn for one unit.

Vineheart01 wrote:im also hoping the Mekadread gets killkannon access back.
Unless i missed it it actually cant use it anymore, despite the arm still being on sale. I am missing a mekadread for my collection but really dont wanna invest that much into a useless model.

The Meka-Dread may replace one of its rippa klaws
with one of the following weapons: killkannon, big
zzappa, shunta or ratler kannon.’

 Vineheart01 wrote:
im also hoping the Mekadread gets killkannon access back.
Unless i missed it it actually cant use it anymore, despite the arm still being on sale. I am missing a mekadread for my collection but really dont wanna invest that much into a useless model.

the_scotsman wrote:
Warlord trait analysis, including the results of my comparison of the 4 direct-damage combat traits:

Spoiler:

Warlord Trait Analysis

‘Ard as Nails – Unviable

I guess the question here is just – why? You could make a T7 Deffkilla with it, but having a slightly tougher warlord really doesn’t have much of a shine to it compared to the massive, massive damage output we can get out of other traits.

Big Killa Boss, Brutal But Kunnin, Might is Right, Proper Killy

It makes sense to analyze these together, because they are all in direct competition with one another. This direct competition means that it’s pretty easy to narrow down which one is best in most situations.

I’ve evaluated the average damage output of four characters that I would consider you likely to want to improve with a combat-oriented warlord trait: A Deffkilla Wartrike, a Warboss with Killa Klaw+Attack Squig, and a Painboy with Killa Klaw (primarily to analyze the effect on a character who does not hit on 2s.) I pit them against three different targets: A standard T7 3+ vehicle, a Knight-equivalent T8 3+ vehicle, and a “scary character with invuln” using the custode biker T6 3++ statline.

The analysis shows that right off the bat, Big Killa Boss provides the least benefit in all three instances. Since it’s also conditional (vehicle/monster only) it should pretty much be disregarded.

The other two conditional traits, Proper Killy and Brutal But Kunnin (both only on the charge/when charged), took second and first place overall in terms of damage improvement. Because they are mutually exclusive, unless you soup Goffs and Blood Axes to get both on the table with the Thinkin’ Cap, Proper Killy should be disregarded for Brutal But Kunnin unless you are forced to take Proper Killy (Ghazghull as a warlord.)
Might is Right actually works the best of all four traits against the high-invuln character. If you’re facing daemon princes or custode biker captains and you want to go this route, Might is Right will actually allow a warboss or deffkilla with the Killa Klaw to one-round one of those characters on average with two rounds of combat (Get Stuck In or Orks is Never Beaten). While this is a positive trade for you pointswise you are giving up a warlord kill, and orks do have lots of efficient high-volume melee attacks and low-AP-high-damage ranged weapons that would probably be better solutions. The non-conditional nature of Might is Right doesn’t do much for me, because BBK allows you to one-round pretty much any standard vehicle target with one of these beatstick characters, and in the case of fighting a knight, your odds of surviving more than one round are fairly astronomical, and it’s most likely that you’d rather deal your 18 wounds on average with BBK and Orks is Never Beaten if you’re using your boss as a suicide missile against knights.
With that explanation, I’m ranking Might is Right and Brutal but Kunnin as “Good”, Proper Killy as “Situational (Ghazghull)” and Big Killa Boss as “Unviable” because it is never good better than BBK.

Follow Me, Ladz: Situational

This trait is quite good if you want to avoid running a warboss in a list where you could use his aura. Deffskullz like it a LOT because the value of Big Meks (with their kustom mega blastas) is hugely increased and it is essentially a freebie with the Thinkin’ Kap relic, as this trait grants you 1 CP. For other clans it might be handy to save points, say slapping it on a KFF big mek to make a Snakebites green tide list extra points efficient – you’re Snakebites so you save on a Painboy AND you save on needing a Warboss, while still getting their effects. Those point savings make up for the 1pt nerf on 155 boyz, if you don’t like having your green tide list from the index nerfed.

Kunnin But Brutal: Situational

I have had access to this trait in several of my codexes, and I haven’t much loved it there, either. The best case use of this is to stick your Warlord in a transport (so you can auto-scoop that one) and then select your D3 units from DIFFERENT transports, which can be full of units. A mounted up list can easily redeploy everything they start on the board, which can be funny, but given the pace of 8th I’m not sure how impactful that is versus the cost of deploying all your eggs in just a couple baskets.

Da Best Armor Teef Can Buy (Bad Moonz): Good

I’m kind of in love with this one. Combine with the Supa-Cybork and you’ve got yourself nearly a completely new beast in the deffkilla wartrike- almost like a Sheeld Kaptin’ On Wazzy Jetbike! In fact, the Deffkilla with this trait and relic combo takes more shots to kill with any weapon that has AP-1 or more than the ubiquitous bike captain with 3++ relic. And he’s got an always-on 5+ save vs mortal wounds and a 1cp stratagem to make him -1 to hit for the whole turn! Huehuehuehue.

I’ve got a Plan, Ladz! (Blood Axes): Situational

THERE’S the CP regeneration trait! It’s fine. Strictly a worse version of DE Labyrinthine Cunning, and our Hqs have a habit of not standing around in the backfield staying alive all game. But if you like CPs, and of course you do. Unfortunately Orks do have a lot of more than 1cp stratagems and pregame stratagems we’ll want to be using, and you won’t get to roll for those with this trait.

Opportunist (Deathskullz): Good

This trait jives wonderfully with the kinds of HQs Deathskullz like to bring. Slap it on a KMB/Tellyport Blasta mega armor big mek if you want maximum hilarity, but feel free to just slap it on a regular KMB mek and it’ll still provide solid value. And hey – it’s the clan that can bring more than one warlord trait, too!

Speed Freek(Evil Sunz): Good

The second half of this trait is really the impactful one, letting your Evil Sunz bikers and vehicles cheerfully charge again and again, bopping into targets as their hearts desire. Tends to be less crazy potent than you expect, but still nice enough that I’ve taken it over combat traits several times and never not gotten good use out of it.

Killa Reputation (Freebootas): Good

If you’re taking a Freebootas non-soup list, this trait is 100% your go-to. If you’re souping Freebootas in and just taking them as a shooty half of another list, then take something else. Giving a Captain (Kaptin) buff for combat is about as good as it sounds if your list isn’t entirely shooting focused, but it gets even crazier when you consider the gulf between 2+ and 2+ rerollable to hit, which is exactly where most of your orks will be going when you pop that freeboota kultur in the fight phase.

Surly As a Squiggoth (Snakebites): Situational

The second half of this trait is really what you’re looking at. The situation you want is “Do I want Killa Kanz in my list? If the answer is yes, then you probably don’t want to leave home without this trait.

TlDR: Most subfaction traits are really quite good. Brutal But Kunnin is usually the best trait for combat.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Warlord trait analysis, including the results of my comparison of the 4 direct-damage combat traits:

Spoiler:

Warlord Trait Analysis

‘Ard as Nails – Unviable

I guess the question here is just – why? You could make a T7 Deffkilla with it, but having a slightly tougher warlord really doesn’t have much of a shine to it compared to the massive, massive damage output we can get out of other traits.

Big Killa Boss, Brutal But Kunnin, Might is Right, Proper Killy

It makes sense to analyze these together, because they are all in direct competition with one another. This direct competition means that it’s pretty easy to narrow down which one is best in most situations.

I’ve evaluated the average damage output of four characters that I would consider you likely to want to improve with a combat-oriented warlord trait: A Deffkilla Wartrike, a Warboss with Killa Klaw+Attack Squig, and a Painboy with Killa Klaw (primarily to analyze the effect on a character who does not hit on 2s.) I pit them against three different targets: A standard T7 3+ vehicle, a Knight-equivalent T8 3+ vehicle, and a “scary character with invuln” using the custode biker T6 3++ statline.

The analysis shows that right off the bat, Big Killa Boss provides the least benefit in all three instances. Since it’s also conditional (vehicle/monster only) it should pretty much be disregarded.

The other two conditional traits, Proper Killy and Brutal But Kunnin (both only on the charge/when charged), took second and first place overall in terms of damage improvement. Because they are mutually exclusive, unless you soup Goffs and Blood Axes to get both on the table with the Thinkin’ Cap, Proper Killy should be disregarded for Brutal But Kunnin unless you are forced to take Proper Killy (Ghazghull as a warlord.)
Might is Right actually works the best of all four traits against the high-invuln character. If you’re facing daemon princes or custode biker captains and you want to go this route, Might is Right will actually allow a warboss or deffkilla with the Killa Klaw to one-round one of those characters on average with two rounds of combat (Get Stuck In or Orks is Never Beaten). While this is a positive trade for you pointswise you are giving up a warlord kill, and orks do have lots of efficient high-volume melee attacks and low-AP-high-damage ranged weapons that would probably be better solutions. The non-conditional nature of Might is Right doesn’t do much for me, because BBK allows you to one-round pretty much any standard vehicle target with one of these beatstick characters, and in the case of fighting a knight, your odds of surviving more than one round are fairly astronomical, and it’s most likely that you’d rather deal your 18 wounds on average with BBK and Orks is Never Beaten if you’re using your boss as a suicide missile against knights.
With that explanation, I’m ranking Might is Right and Brutal but Kunnin as “Good”, Proper Killy as “Situational (Ghazghull)” and Big Killa Boss as “Unviable” because it is never good better than BBK.

Follow Me, Ladz: Situational

This trait is quite good if you want to avoid running a warboss in a list where you could use his aura. Deffskullz like it a LOT because the value of Big Meks (with their kustom mega blastas) is hugely increased and it is essentially a freebie with the Thinkin’ Kap relic, as this trait grants you 1 CP. For other clans it might be handy to save points, say slapping it on a KFF big mek to make a Snakebites green tide list extra points efficient – you’re Snakebites so you save on a Painboy AND you save on needing a Warboss, while still getting their effects. Those point savings make up for the 1pt nerf on 155 boyz, if you don’t like having your green tide list from the index nerfed.

Kunnin But Brutal: Situational

I have had access to this trait in several of my codexes, and I haven’t much loved it there, either. The best case use of this is to stick your Warlord in a transport (so you can auto-scoop that one) and then select your D3 units from DIFFERENT transports, which can be full of units. A mounted up list can easily redeploy everything they start on the board, which can be funny, but given the pace of 8th I’m not sure how impactful that is versus the cost of deploying all your eggs in just a couple baskets.

Da Best Armor Teef Can Buy (Bad Moonz): Good

I’m kind of in love with this one. Combine with the Supa-Cybork and you’ve got yourself nearly a completely new beast in the deffkilla wartrike- almost like a Sheeld Kaptin’ On Wazzy Jetbike! In fact, the Deffkilla with this trait and relic combo takes more shots to kill with any weapon that has AP-1 or more than the ubiquitous bike captain with 3++ relic. And he’s got an always-on 5+ save vs mortal wounds and a 1cp stratagem to make him -1 to hit for the whole turn! Huehuehuehue.

I’ve got a Plan, Ladz! (Blood Axes): Situational

THERE’S the CP regeneration trait! It’s fine. Strictly a worse version of DE Labyrinthine Cunning, and our Hqs have a habit of not standing around in the backfield staying alive all game. But if you like CPs, and of course you do. Unfortunately Orks do have a lot of more than 1cp stratagems and pregame stratagems we’ll want to be using, and you won’t get to roll for those with this trait.

Opportunist (Deathskullz): Good

This trait jives wonderfully with the kinds of HQs Deathskullz like to bring. Slap it on a KMB/Tellyport Blasta mega armor big mek if you want maximum hilarity, but feel free to just slap it on a regular KMB mek and it’ll still provide solid value. And hey – it’s the clan that can bring more than one warlord trait, too!

Speed Freek(Evil Sunz): Good

The second half of this trait is really the impactful one, letting your Evil Sunz bikers and vehicles cheerfully charge again and again, bopping into targets as their hearts desire. Tends to be less crazy potent than you expect, but still nice enough that I’ve taken it over combat traits several times and never not gotten good use out of it.

Killa Reputation (Freebootas): Good

If you’re taking a Freebootas non-soup list, this trait is 100% your go-to. If you’re souping Freebootas in and just taking them as a shooty half of another list, then take something else. Giving a Captain (Kaptin) buff for combat is about as good as it sounds if your list isn’t entirely shooting focused, but it gets even crazier when you consider the gulf between 2+ and 2+ rerollable to hit, which is exactly where most of your orks will be going when you pop that freeboota kultur in the fight phase.

Surly As a Squiggoth (Snakebites): Situational

The second half of this trait is really what you’re looking at. The situation you want is “Do I want Killa Kanz in my list? If the answer is yes, then you probably don’t want to leave home without this trait.

TlDR: Most subfaction traits are really quite good. Brutal But Kunnin is usually the best trait for combat.

I think you got mixed up on which faction can take Morgog's Finkin' Kap; it's blood axes, not deathskulls.

 flandarz wrote:
Best part of the FAQ is that using Grot Shield to defend against Multi-Wound attacks no longer destroys a Grot per Wound. You roll the D6 per attack, not per Wound.

Disappointing about losing the 1+ Save MANz, but we all knew that was coming.

Kebabcito wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
Best part of the FAQ is that using Grot Shield to defend against Multi-Wound attacks no longer destroys a Grot per Wound. You roll the D6 per attack, not per Wound.

Disappointing about losing the 1+ Save MANz, but we all knew that was coming.

If we can denie every dice of damage (ignoring the amount of wounds) grots will become one of the most overpowered units of the game.

A castellan shooting 30 boyz will means like 10 grot dead

Kebabcito wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
Best part of the FAQ is that using Grot Shield to defend against Multi-Wound attacks no longer destroys a Grot per Wound. You roll the D6 per attack, not per Wound.

Disappointing about losing the 1+ Save MANz, but we all knew that was coming.

If we can denie every dice of damage (ignoring the amount of wounds) grots will become one of the most overpowered units of the game.

A castellan shooting 30 boyz will means like 10 grot dead

CaptainO wrote:
WIth the last Big Faq they brought in "tactical restraint" which limited the player to one refunded CP "per battle round". The blood axe warlord trait states that If your warlord is on the battlefield you can regain a CP on a 6+ . Does this mean that I can still refund multiple CP spent at the start of the game before the first battle round provided I deploy my warlord on the battlefield before spending the CP (I'm looking at using ard boyz, prepared position, blood axe deep strike x2 and telaporta, 8CP in total)

I'm going to be running a evil sunz brigade and a blood moons battalion (1 Big Mek with thinking cap allowing him to take the blood axe warlord trait, a weird boy and 3 grots.)

tneva82 wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
WIth the last Big Faq they brought in "tactical restraint" which limited the player to one refunded CP "per battle round". The blood axe warlord trait states that If your warlord is on the battlefield you can regain a CP on a 6+ . Does this mean that I can still refund multiple CP spent at the start of the game before the first battle round provided I deploy my warlord on the battlefield before spending the CP (I'm looking at using ard boyz, prepared position, blood axe deep strike x2 and telaporta, 8CP in total)

I'm going to be running a evil sunz brigade and a blood moons battalion (1 Big Mek with thinking cap allowing him to take the blood axe warlord trait, a weird boy and 3 grots.)

Correct. Though for 'ardboyz Q is if that is done before or after deployment. Don't have book with me but when it is done? If pre-deployment then warlord will never be in battlefield to regain.

Blood axe deepstrike and tellyporta are fair play though. Dark eldars did that regularly before fall FAQ killed the dark eldar deep strike ravager thing.

Mind you thinking cap is blood axe thing so unless you bring in 3rd detachment for that one of your detachments would lose their clan trait for having him...

tneva82 wrote:
Haven't ran both but haven't been impressed with gorkanaut. Not that tough and the 6 attacks from gorkanaut isnt' that hot. With 18 attacks from lesser mode then the punch isn't as much as deff dreads. And flexibility from charging 3 rather than 1 model is nice.

More dakka for gorkanaut is irrelevant for me. Would need to be disasterous 1st turn for opponent to clear tank bustas or lootas. They are priority for that strategem.

tneva82 wrote:
Ok so CP recycle for tellyporta and dead sneaky, 'ard boyz and exttra gubbins no recycle.

CaptainO wrote:


Ya that seems fair. If you wanted to get rules lawyering you could probably fight it but you'd be entering TG territory. I run AM too so this question applies to their Kurovs Aquilla too. I'm starting with 20CP and even if I regain 9 (1 for dead sneaky x2, 1 for telaporta and 1 per round) I can see myself burning through them all.

I've got 12 warbike/cybork conversions I want to take and the idea of using the drive by Krumping to fire and move is tempting. Probably better off just going for another 30 boyz though. I do love the models though.