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I wanted to write up my experience from the Baltimore GamesDay RT.  I took some pics of armies I saw that I thought looked good, and of my first deployment, I was going to do that for all 3 games, but that didn’t work out as I forgot after the first game.

 

Here’s what ended up happening:  I came in 6^th place, 2 Massacres and 1 Minor Victory.  I’m waiting to see the spreadsheet online, but the only thing I’m unhappy about was that I got a 24/30 for my Sports score, and I know that my last opponent gave me a 10.  I don’t mean to brag, but I’ve been told I’m a great person to play against and I make an extra effort when playing against people I’ve never met before.  I try to make jokes (especially when I roll bad) and I try to keep an upbeat mood while I play.  Apparently I either got two 7’s or someone gave me a 4/10 for Sports, which bothers me because I had no problems or disputes during any game and I let things slide in cases where I could have played “strictly” and gained an advantage.

 

All that aside, I had fun and learned a bit during my games.  I’m also highly proud of our local GW store (was Cherry Hill, NJ which now moved to Echelon Village, NJ): Out of 15 Games, 14 were wins, with 9 of them being Massacres and one of our players took 1^st Overall. 

 

I’ll post up pics when I get my hosting sorted out.

 

<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Batreps[/b]

 

Here’s my List:

 

1500 Ultramarines – Second Company Battle Group

 

Reclusiarch - 107 Points

Jump pack, Bolt Pistol, Frags

 

5 Terminators, 2 Assault Cannons - 240

5 Terminators, 2 Assault Cannons - 240

 

6 Marines, Las/Plas - 115

6 Marines, Las/Plas - 115

6 Marines, Las/Plas - 115

5 Marines, Las/Plas - 100

5 Marines, Las/Plas - 100

 

8 Assault Marines, PF Sarge - 206

1 Landspeeder Tornado - 80

1 Landspeeder Tornado - 80

 

<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Game 1 vs Blood Angels (old rules) [/b]

 

His list was (from memory)

Chaplain w/ Jump Pack + Bolt Pistol

3x 8 Man Las/Plas/Vet Tac squads

2x 8 Assault Marines, 1 Plasma Pistol, 1 Flamer, PF Sarge

Squadron of 2 Landspeeder Tornados

 

2x Baal Preds w/ Heavy Bolters

 

He generated about 8 Death Company with only 1 Power Fist.

 

I have a picture of deployment that will be upped soon. 

 

Terrain worked out about average.  He deployed his 3 Tac squads across the board, 2 in cover.  His Preds went on the center/my right flank.  His speeders went on my left flank, as did his Death Company and 2 Assault Squads.  To be honest, I really didn’t think I was going to win this game.

 

I deployed my Tac squads in cover across the board, keeping good fire lanes open.  Speeders hid, one on my left flank, one in the center.  The assault marines deployed almost 100% counter to his assault squads and death company on my left flank, behind cover near the speeder.  The termies were deepstriking.  It was a Secure and Control, we had 5 Loot Counters that ended up being quarters since neither of us had counters!

 

I won the roll for first turn and made my opponent go first.  His shooting saw a 5 man Las/Plas squad deployed towards the center left get completely wiped out.  This ended up being a not so terrible thing for me since that squad would have been a leapfrog unit for his assaulty squads to get to the other half of my army.  So now I had one 6 Man squad on the left flank, and the rest of the squads were center and then right flank.   His squads raged, except the assault squads and they really didn’t do much, except on the right where they advanced.

 

The main action of this battle that really had anything to do with me getting the massacre was how I handled his assault elements.  The Death Company advanced with his assault squads coming up behind them, but since the flank was so crowded they were deployed very far back and he got staggered.  On turn 2 he charged my Las/Plas squad in cover, who got massacred but took down 1 Death Company marine.  I had the assault squad poised for a counter charge and he couldn’t consolidate into anything, so he sat there stuck after the massacre and got jumped.  Bolt Pistols opened up and downed some more Death Co, and the speeders came out and started nailing Death Co, but not as much as I’d needed.  After charging, he had a wound left on his chaplain and the PF death company marine left.  I had about 6 Assault Marines left and the Chaplain.  Then the calvary arrived and I took hits from both assault squads, who saw off the chaplain and assault squad, but I managed to kill the last DC marine, but his chaplain was alive. 

 

The problem was he was once again stuck out in the open and then the guns started firing.  The speeders were still going strong and using cover I was able to limit return fire from his other squads and just unloaded onto his assault squads, as did my terminators who deepstruck near his deployment zone (by a loot counter and a Las/Plas squad).  Eventually one assault squad made it forward and charged my center las/plas squad, but again, massacred it on the charge, and were stuck out in the open, who were then rapid fired by another close by las/plas squad with long range support from another of my own, and down they went.  The other squad with the chaplain got more shots into it from my speeders, and at the end they were below scoring with just the chaplain with a wound left and one assault marine left.  They did kill one speeder, but they were hamstrung because they couldn’t get anywhere without getting shots on them.

 

The rest of his army started to fall apart from the terminators and las/plas squads throughout the game.  One termy squad deepstruck in his DS on my right flank, they shook his Baal pred and then after laughing off the Las/Plas shots, 4 of them died to bolter fire.  That last Assault Cannon Terminator would pass all his morale checks, and take ANOTHER round of Las/Plas fire, staying alive and then charged and took one of his las/plas squads on a counter below scoring.

 

The other terminator squad went after another of his las/plas squads on another counter on my left flank in his DZ, killing them off and claiming a counter.  His preds were just Las/Plas’d to death.

 

To finish the game, I had 3 Loot Counters due to a speeder, the termies, and a Las/Plas squad.  All he had left alive was 1 Las/Plas squad, his chaplain with a wound, below half an assault squad, and below half a Las/Plas squad, I had half a termy squad (1 guy!!), a full termy squad, 1 speeder, and 2 Las/Plas squads.  In the end it put me over 1200 VPs and gave me a massacre for my first game. 

 

He was a little bummed after the match since it really looked like he had it in the bag on turn 2/3, and it just came apart as I forced him to separate his assault units and my army was designed so that each firebase squad would just die when hit with anything potent in assault and I just space out so that no consolidates are possible and the squads just get rapid fired after killing a 100-115 point unit.

 

I’ll post up the next two batreps when I get some time.

I think your sportsmanship score might have been a reflection of your army list rather than how funny you were.

To call it sportsmanship is a little off. You are really asked to mark down how much fun you had, and playing against that list might not have been any fun (at least thats the sportsmanship they had at the LVGT).

As far as pictures goes, it took me a long time to remember to take pictures of the start of every turn. And if I am getting killed, or I really have to think a lot on how I am going to win,then I almost always forget to take pictures.

Maybe you tell bad jokes...

Considering my opponents and the people walking by observing were laughing (save one opponnet), I don't think that was the problem.

As far as taking a hit via my list, I'm pretty sure this is supposed to be a NO COMP tourny and scoring my "sports" score lower because of issues relating to "comp" just reeks of "I'm really upset there's no comp score and I'm going to use some tournament packet RAW to justify lowering your sports score for reasons that have NOTHING to do with sportsmanship". Heck I'd rather it have something to do with me as a player than for it to be something like that.

I just find it odd since every game, every person I was talking to during and after it and we had a decent time talking and were just hanging out and actually having a good time - which is why I was so surprized to see a lower score.

Guess that's one reason that subjective scoring like that doesn't work too well, because I know people who got 3 10's, including other people who played well, because they played people like me who think "Wow that rating system was really dumb, was the guy an ass? No. Full marks then".

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 06/29/2007 5:16 AM
As far as taking a hit via my list, I'm pretty sure this is supposed to be a NO COMP tourny and scoring my "sports" score lower because of issues relating to "comp" just reeks of "I'm really upset there's no comp score and I'm going to use some tournament packet RAW to justify lowering your sports score for reasons that have NOTHING to do with sportsmanship". Heck I'd rather it have something to do with me as a player than for it to be something like that.

I think part of the problem was that they changed the sportsmanship scoring system.

It use to be that they had Sportsmanship which was how nice of a guy your opponent is, and did you have any rule 'issues' etc. And then on the other hand you had comp which was your opponents army selection.

This year, they got rid of that system, and combined them into just one score. I see a lot of people thinking that these are a "no comp" tournaments because when they first put up the tournament packet on the web, they did not have a comp score.  So I saw a lot of people jump all over the fact that all you had to be was a nice guy, and you can bring any army you wanted to. But to think that is a mistake, because they are no longer using last years scoring system.

Just because they have gotten rid of the comp score, do not think that you are not graded on it. They now made it a combined sports/comp score under the umbrella of your sportsmanship score.

Maybe if you dropped 2 assault cannons (1 from each squad) and used the points to add a marine to those 2 five man tac squads and two plasma pistols to the assault squad you would get a 6 on sportsmanship. 

List looks pretty standard for a competetive marine list and I would expect nothing less and give you full comp. If I lost to this list it would be because I needed to play better because to expect something less out of a marine list in a competetive enviornment is foolish. I guess I could give you higher comp scores if you bring a pathetic list and make it easier to win but I rather enjoy a competent opponent who plays with the strengths of his list. Need to maximize your list in the current enviornment anyway or you are owned by MC lists and 3 Falcon Eldar lists. Voodoo good batrep and list.  Looks like you made critical rolls/saves and your opponent just didn't based on the fact he had some las/plas in his force also.

It is total min max but seeing what I run for my Black Ultras I would not ding your score because of your list. As said it is fairly standard.

- G

I dont see anything particularly cheesy with the list. Its pretty much the standard shooting Marine army we all come to know. Some people take to great offense of the 6 man las/plas squad so its all subjective in nature there. Nice job in the RTT. Problem with big RTTs like this is you have to be pretty lucky with matchups and mission to win it with only 3 games to play.

One thing I'd like to add to the first batrep that I didn't originally post, was that my opponent was a really nice guy.  He was with a group from Mythic entertainment who was either running the demo station at GamesDay or playing in the tournament.  I thought that it was pretty cool to see that and it was also nice that guys from my local group and from his gaming group at the company were all paired near eachother table wise, so everyone around us was really friendly and it made for a nice enviornment.

Anyway, on to my second game, vs Chaos Undivided:

Undivided Lord with Jump  Pack, Mutation, Dark Blade (+2STR Power weapon), and Bolt Pistol, Infiltrate

6 Slaneesh Havoks - Some kind of sonic weapons that wasn't AP3.
7 Nurgle Marines w/ 2 Plasma Guns - Infiltrate
8 Chosen with the Mark of Chaos Undecided (err Undivided), Infiltrate, Bound Demon Icon.  PF Aspiring Champ

6 Marines - Lascannon
6 Marines - Lascannon
8 Bloodletters

5 Raptors - PF Aspiring Champ, Infiltrate

Predator with Mutated Hull, demonic possession, Auto cannon, heavy bolter sponsons, and a havock launcher.

The mission was cleanse - gamma.

The terrain was really, really odd.  It got moved around a whole lot and pushed mainly to this one corner, probably because of people displaying their armies after the first game for judging.  Problem was, he didn't want to re-setup the terrain and I didn't want to be a pain in the ass and insist on it.  I got lucky and won the dice roll to pick sides, and chose the side that DIDN'T have tons and tons of cover everywhere, with just one really big piece of terrain in the quarter.

My reasoning was this, I didn't think he could really outshoot me, even though his army was completely put away and I had no idea what was in it at this point, I guessed correctly that for the most part, he'd have to come to me, and that with the termies and speeders I could get quarters or contest them.  With the one table quarter that was light on terrain I didn't have as much cover, but he would be forced to deploy in a veritable jungle gym that would limit LOS, but not give anything a clear lane to advance into my position without spending at least one turn exposed to all my guns - and since I knew to be careful I could deploy in a manner that wouldn't allow him to play any Infiltrate + Demonic Speed BS or Infiltrate + Demon Summoning in any way that would get to me and then leapfrog through my units without me getting some shots off first. 

I was fortunate that we exchanged army lists before we deployed and I got a pretty good idea of what he was running and what he had to do to win.  The biggest thing was learning that I needed to put down pushback units for his infiltrators.

FYI, my table quarter was on the right side of my table edge.

I really wish I had a picture to show deployment, but I was silly and forgot to take one.  Basically I setup 3 Las/Plas squads in the cover (the 6 Man units) and I kept the two five man units out of the cover on the fringes of the table quarter for pushback on infiltrators and in case he ignored them they could move over on the last turn and take a quarter for me if needed (sounds silly but it's saved my ass too many times in clenase to not do).  The speeders and assault squad hid behind my terrain feature out of LOS to his guns, much to his chagrin.

His two Las squads went into cover, one back towards his table edge which had limited LOS due to the aforementioned "Jungle Gym" of terrain and the other towards the center. The predator went behind cover in his quarter with the ability to threaten me after movement.  His Plague Marines infiltrated towards the center, a little under 18" away from me in cover.  His raptors, chosen, and Lord all went directly to my north behind cover, but nicely far enough away that they'd have to spend a turn out of cover and exposed to guns before getting to anything to assault.

We diced to see who'd go first, I won and made him take the first turn which he was somehow surprized at. 

His movement brought the plague marines closer and they rapid fired into one of my 6 man squads, killing a few but I made my morale checks.  His Raptors, Lord, and Chosen moved into the cover without using their jump packs.  The predator shot off at me but didn't do anything substantial (Love that 3+ Armor Save).

My turn saw concentrated firepower go into the Plague Marines, leaving only one left with a Plasma Gun.  I took both speeders out to being exposed to some guns to do it, but it kept them from being able to assault me and tie me down which was my main concern - I needed my guns firing and my counter charge to deal with the nastyness of the assaults up north, not a few plague marines.  The assault units repositioned for better countercharge potential from behind the terrain.

He advanced his last Plague Marine to rapid fire me with plasma again, which I think killed a marine.  He used a lascannon to down a speeder but the other one was merely shaken.  His chosen had to advance towards my lone las/plas squad to try and get their demons off, so instead of coming directly forward they had to veer towards the right, keeping them away from other parts of my army, but they were still very much in cover.  He kept his raptors and Lord in the cover and mostly out of LOS due to the newly downed Landspeeder wreck. I also learned that his bloodletters were in an icon and did not have to roll to come in per usual, should have paid more attention to the army list when I read it.  Oh well, they stayed put this turn.

His shooting was mostly inconsequential.  He claimed LOS to my assault squad, which I didn't think he really had with all his guns from the pred, but I let him shoot all the guns at the two possible casualties who then died.  Everything else was mostly a wash. 

1 Terminator squad came in and drifted quite a bit from his table quarter back towards my table edge on the left flank.  I still had LOS to side shot his predator, but that did nothing.  The assault marines re-re-positioned themselves back to their starting location to avoid more pred shots and to counter the coming assault.  My speeder zoomed back to hide and get rid of the shaken result.  Shooting saw some Havoks go down, and hardly anything happen to his Chosen, though not for a lack of trying.  I also didn't manage to do anything to his predator, again. And we went back to him.

Now the demons popped out.  Due to the lovely rules of summoning, only part of the demons base had to be under the template, giving him another inch forward on top of the 5" from the template for his foward most model, who then moved and assaulted my lone 5 man squad on the right flank and north - who promptly died after killing 2 bloodletters.  The 'letters moved behind the speeder wreck to stay out of LOS of guns for a turn, with maybe 2 guys exposed to shooting.

The Lord and raptors advanced this turn, along with the chosen - mostly trying to stay out of LOS with the speeder acting as a little cover and he did a good job of it, but he was still quite on the far edge of assault range of my northern most squads with the raptors, the chosen had a long walk ahead of them, and the bloodletters and Lord were going to get into CC next turn.   The predator turned to hide from my Las/Plas squads and took aim at the termies, after all his shooting in that area was said and done, 3 Termies were left alive - scoring and with assault cannons.

My Turn Three is when I started playing what I like to call "The donkey-cave Marines" and it's where I feel I won the game.  The Terminator squad came in, deepstruck at home in his table quarter nice and far away from most of his assault units and giving me another nice side shot on his pred.  They got a weapon destroyed result which took off a heavy bolter (sad how the autocannon is so useless I saw it better to get rid of the Heavy Bolters first).   The speeder came around to limit LOS and took some shots at the Bloodletters who laughed at it.

Now I started being the a*$%&*) marine player, I was going to force him to move for every assault and I explicitly set everything up so that no matter which assault he went for, he was going to be exposed when it was done baring a miracle of the dice. 

I moved the Las/Plas squad that was definitely getting into assault from the blood letters and/or Lord towards his table edge and to the right, nice and far away from the other squads - at this point there were 4 of the Marines left.  The rapid firing bolters and plasma gun killed 1 bloodletter I think.  The other squads were spaced well enough apart so that when charged, he wasn't going to get a safe consolodate move after killing them as almost all of them weren't even at full strength at this point.

The first squad of Terminators moved more towards the table quarter by my table edge, hiding from the Las/Plas squads and took shots at the havocs, who died to the might of assault cannons.  Every other piece of shooting was mostly inconcequential, the assault marines and chaplain didn't take any bait and stood nicely hidden to counter charge him after he made his next move.

Turn 4, he was in a very bad position and started making mistakes.  He jumped the Lord into the terrain, he took the risk and no wounds happened, he was poised between two Las/Plas squads, one that was getting charged by the Blood Letters and one that was within assault range of the Raptors.  The final squad in cover was safe from getting charged or consolodated into. 

Here were his mistakes: He forgot to move his predator, which stayed pointed at the 3 man termy squad, and he shot his raptors at the 6 Man Tac squad in cover that the Lord really wanted to charge into.  He killed 2 Marines and the casualties magically happened to be the two Marines closest to the Lord, meaning he was either barely in assault range of the unit (and he had to roll to see how far he could go).  As soon as I picked out the casualties, the "oh gak" came from my opponent and he realized just how bad an idea that was.  There were now 4 Marines left, who would certainly die to the 5 Raptors with a fist, and really couldn't get to them with the Lord who maybe had the best chance to try and get to the other squads. 

He took his safe option, rolled a 5 for his lords assault, and combo charged the Marines who moved towards the right flank - far away from their battle brothers, with the blood letters.  The Marines killed 2 Blood Letters, and then died.  The Lord rolled a 3 for massacre and walked out of cover to avoid being the closest unit for shooting, he was next to his advanced chosen squad.  The Bloodletters ran forward, but were out of combat, again.  The Raptors charged and killed the 4 marines, and were stuck sitting in cover looking at the tactical squad they so wanted to massacre into.  

My turn 4, I took it to him and made him pay for those mistakes.

The terminators who came in last turn charged his predators side armor, 8 Power Fist attacks auto hit, and the pred exploded and killed 1 of his Marines nearby.  I was using the assault as a method to leapfrog my way into assault with his lascannon squads and he was quite upset when he realized he forgot to move the predator last turn.  If I didn't assault the pred and just shot it, I would have never been able to get into assault or at least threaten it, and I wouldn't have had such a chance to get rid of the pred either.

Back in my deployment zone, things got nasty.  The tactical squad in cover and the tactical squad that had been sitting out of cover advanced and rapid fired into his Raptors, killing all of them.  The Bloodletters kept on laughing at the landspeeder as it tried to shoot them.  And then the Assault Marines and chaplain came out to play with the Lord, who was so convienently by his chosen.  They shot him with pistols and did a wound.  We charged and he wiffed against the chaplain and the chaplain put him down for the count (he had no Inv save). 3" Massacre saw me lock his chosen squad in CC, denying them the charge.  Things were not looking up for my opponent.

Turn 5 - He charged his bloodletters into my tactical squad, killed it, and managed to roll the 6 to get into the other squad that had moved up to get LOS and rapid fire into his Raptors.   We had a dice battle in the assault with the chosen, which saw my Chaplain die to his power fist, and me start whittling down the chosen to a paltry 4 Marines, with me keeping 6 of my assault marines alive.  Luckily due to the casualties, we drew combat and everyone stayed put.

His shooting saw the terminators go down to 3 left in his deployment zone from his Lascannon squads.

My Turn 5 - Here's where I made my only real mistake of the tournament.  I zoomed my landspeeder away from the melee with the bloodletters all the way to my corner, mainly to stay out of LOS to his lascannon squad, but I didn't move about as far as I could have, or in such a way that would have really put him in a bad position - you'll see why this was such a mistake in a minute.

We litterally called the assault what it was "a dice battle of the fists" and to be fair, I won it by rolling well.  At the end I had 4 Marines left and he had his Champ with Fist.

I saw that my hopes to get into assault and leapfrog weren't going to work and so I started shooting with my termies.  I saw one lascannon squad go down, but was exposed to the other one for the next turn.

The bloodletters massacred the last tactical squad and got a 5" consolodation, which put them into what I saw was the "impossible assault" chance on my landspeeder.  If he had rolled a 4 or less, I would have been fine.

His turn 6 - The lascannon kills a terminator, taking the squad in his deployment zone below scoring, damn. 

The Bloodletters charge the speeder, 2 hits, 1 Glance, 1 Dead Speeder.  4 Blood Letters now scored my deployment zone.

The assault Marines took their swings and killed his champ before he could swing the fist again.  The squad consolodated forward towards the other quarter.

My Turn 6 - The speeder was dead, I moved my assault Marines into the adjacent quarter, the only one they could get to. 

The terminators in his quarter killed his lascannon squad, and the other terminator squad (who was stuck in the "Jungle Gym" with not much to do from turn 4 forward) claimed their quarter and were stuck from getting into his table quarter.

In the end, Minor Victory to me. 

Looking at it just now, I realize my mistake in moving the assault marines into the other table quarter.  If I kept them in my own quarter I could have denied the 'letters a chance to score and I would have been up 250 points due to objectives though looking at the numbers of what would have happened if I did that I still would have had a minor victory.

My opponent was a nice guy, though he was definitely not as easily humored as my other opponents.  I really couldn't get the guy to laugh and when things really went south for him on turn 4, he was visibly annoyed (rightfully so, considering what I did to force him into a terrible position).  Still, he was a nice guy and the cloest thing we had to a "rules dispute" was him learning that "no, the chaos predator still has AV11 on the side, your codex is the 1st rev has a misprint" and after a quick check with those playing near us he concieded that this was the case.  I gave him a 10 in sports like the rest of my opponents.  After the game the guy lightened up a ton and we had a really nice conversation for a while, so I don't want to assume that he outright gave me a 4 for sports since to be honest, it's hard to not come away from the game with a good opinion of the person after having a very tight game that could have gone either way (if he won the dice battle in the Assault marines vs. Chosen fight he'd have won or forced a draw), and having a nice conversation after the fact about tournaments and gaming in general.  

The issue about potential scoring and all that aside, really nice guy and I'd play him again.  Looking at the lists, I had him outclassed list wise and I'm not going to get into being bitter about scores after the tournament.  Plus looking at how the scoring went, he could have forgot to mark the box and it would have defaulted to a 6, and if I got an 8 from my first opponent, that probably makes more sense than getting 2 10's and a 4, at least I hope that's how it went down anyway.

To validate what Voodoo is saying, he is a really nice and fun guy to play against (I am from the same store and also went to the tournament) Since I finished my second game in 40 minutes, I got to watch his game alot, and the guy just seemed bitter because he was losing. This happened to me twice, not because I was a bad guy to play against, or because my list was cheesy, but because my opponents were bitter. THis is why I believe the sportsmanship score should be based off a checktlists like many RTT's, this prevents chipmunking and unreasonable loss of sportsmanship.

OK, here is another look from a guy who has been to many RTT/GT/GD events and this is just my personal experience with no bias and total objectivity based upon my own personal experience.  I played in the GD event at Baltimore.  First of all, let me express that I played in the event to ultimately prepare myself for the GT in Chicago as I have not played in a tourney setting since 2004.  I play to win, yes, but it is not the end of my world if I do not win, enough said.  I was not there to WIN the event and I personally couldn't give a rats arse what list people bring.  Voodooboyz, I don't know you from a hole in the wall, but I will give you my HONEST opinion about your score.  I walked around the tourney and when I saw your army, granted I love Ultramarines, I said to myself, if this guy gets graded on comp, he is going to get killed.  Now I am "old school" per say, because I am from the era of RTT/GT grading that 40% of your list must be troop, 2 FULL troop squads are mandatory, and your total troop force orgs should exceed your total heavy/elite/fast org slots.  Your list happens to fall into the MOST hated list by the fluff nazi brigade.  This may sound harsh to you, but it is the truth:  you fielded the most min/max list possible.  I am not judging you and I don't care what you bring, but if you have been playing for 5+ years, you know what I am talking about.  So I don't understand why you are complaining/whining about your soft scores when you show up to a GD with that kind of list.  It comes with the territory.  If your goal was to score the maximum on sportsmanship, you brought the WRONG list!  If your gaol was to win 3 games by massacre, you brought the correct list.  If your goal was to win the overall championship, you brought the wrong list.  That's the bottom line, it doesn't matter how nice you play, when you bring a list like that, you run the risk of getting "chipmunked", as you say.  It gives your opponent an "out" as to why they got owned.  Don't give them that out next time.  Sorry, but the truth hurts, and it is not always fair.  Deal with it and move on.  You are not new to the tourney scene, so don't get bent.  Like I said, I personally don't believe in the "metagame" hype, but it is a reality. 

You know what you did.  You made a competetive list to win the most battle points.  You ignored the fluff nazi list composition and made a min/max list.  You got "chipmunked" for a reason.  Life is not fair.  SORRY!

I'm well over getting the score and have moved on. I'd play any of my opponents again and wouldn't even get into it with them over scores like that.

My point is that Sports scoring like that is BS. The checklist has nothing to do with comp. Read the section in the rules packet and read the section on the score card, nothing in there about comp.

That all aside, lets look at the guy from my local store who won the thing:

Flyrant, 2+ Save, Venom Cannon, Scything Talons, WS+I upgrades, etc.
4x Dakka Fex's (2x TL Devourer, BS upgrade - one was a heavy choice)
2x Sniper Fex's (5W, 2+ Save, Venom Cannon, Barbed Strangler, BS upgrade)
3x 2 Ravenors w/ Scything Talons
Rippers for troops

I've played against his list many times. He is a great guy who runs a killer list and plays it very well. Guess what his sports score was? 30. Know why? Because he fought 3 people who had the exact same outlook he did, I did, and most people from our store did: "Was the Guy an Ass? No. Full Sports Marks then."

Which you know what, that's how it happens. He's a great guy, I was playing near him in most games and he deserved that 30, because he was playing great. I was on table 6 for game 3, he was on table 5. He tabled his 3rd Opponent in 3 Turns, the guy was an Ork player vs. that list and was hosed from turn 1 on. While I was in my 4th turn I overheard them talking about the sports score and they basically said exactly what I said was our outlook - even the Ork opponent who got smashed in 3 turns felt that way about it.

So the whole idea of the score doing something to prevent hard lists isn't happening. I brought my list to be as strong as I could make it because I knew I'd be up against: Nidzilla, 3 Holofield+Stones Eldar, Mech Tau, Podding Marines, and Chaos of however many flavors you want. I played footslogging Orks for a year and a half, I got tired of bring knives to gun fights and I took what I needed to.

And while I am relatively new to big tournies like this (I've only done local stuff so far), this was the first time I've been chipmunked. It sucks and something should be done to prevent said things from happening. But oh well, you move on to the next set of tournaments.

On the other hand, I'm done trying to play in these kinds of things with a hard list like this. One because yes, the fluff nazi's get really pissy, especially when they lose to it, and two because sometimes you get that bad matchup and you win a game on turn 2 with the next 4 turns being a mere formality with this kind of list and it doesn't work out well for your opponent. The thing is, even if I took my Kult of Speed or my Necrons and did this, I stand the EXACT same thing happening to me again because even if my list is fluffy, if it's powerful or gets massacres then you can get an opponent who says "that was cheesy" and chipmunks you.

So yes, when I try to go ahead and organize my first tourny in a few months, the first thing I'm going to do is make sure the sportsmanship setup is based on a checklist system to limit abuses.

If you play min/max SM are you not being somewhat of a hypocrite to harp on list abuse?

- G

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 06/30/2007 8:52 PM

And while I am relatively new to big tournies like this (I've only done local stuff so far), this was the first time I've been chipmunked. It sucks and something should be done to prevent said things from happening. But oh well, you move on to the next set of tournaments.

I thought in your last post you were leaving open the possibility that you weren't actually chipmunked.  That maybe you got an 8 and a 6.  That seems more likely.

You seem to have a couple of conflicting concepts on Sports.  On the one hand you're saying "Was he an ass?  No?  Full points then." And on the other you're saying people should read the darn sheets.  Well, the sheets don't say "Not an ass = 10".  They say 6 is the default expectation, and that a person really has to go above and beyond to earn an 8 or a 10.  If you read the sheet, you should not be expecting to get a 30 unless your opponents are all saying "The best game ever.  Seriously, if only all games could be this great."  That's what the score sheet says, right?

IMO you didn't get chipmunked.  You were a victim of your own expectations, which led you to score other people 10s for games which probably didn't deserve them, and to expect such inflated scores in return.  And it sounds like a lot of other people had the same problem.  I'm sure your friend who won the thing's a great guy, but if I were the Ork player, I'd have a hard time honestly scoring the guy a 10 for tabling me in three turns.  He may be a great guy, and I may still have had a lot of fun, but there's no way a game that onesided can ever earn "The best game ever.  Seriously, if only all games could be this great." 

Sportsmanship scoring is good, and it's important too, to prevent dicks from winning tournaments.  But it's always going to have rough patches when people fail to read the sheets and score appropriately.

Very good report, though.  Thanks for posting it.  Definitely get some pictures at the next tournament you attend.  

So yes, when I try to go ahead and organize my first tourny in a few months, the first thing I'm going to do is make sure the sportsmanship setup is based on a checklist system to limit abuses.

This will not stop the chipmunks.  They will just check off the low scores.  I feel for you.  I have been playing in big and small events for a while.  I am from Long Island and played in GT's @ Baltimore, Philly, Boston.  I have played in RTT's in Jersey, Connecticut, Mass, New Hampshire, upstate NY, & Rhode Island.  I have received my share of questionable scores.  The second GT I ever played I purposely made a weak list (in my mind at least) that included all heavy bolters in tac squads, typhoon LS's, razorbacks.  I even made a command squad with 2 heavy bolters.  None of my squads had assault weapons and my anti-tank was a LR and two pred annihilators.  It won more games than it lost (luckily), but I remember one opponent who came over to the table with IG and went on and on the entire game about how overpowered my list was, how it was min/max, how he had no chance to win, this was the worst list he had ever seen, yadda yadda yadda.  I didn't table him (even though I could have), I played a "nice" game.  When it was all said and done, he apologized for carrying on, gave me full marks for sportmanship, complemented on me being a "nice" guy and killed me on comp with a big ZERO.  Right there, I got my cherry broke, and I don't get bent anymore if I get killed on scoring because now my only concern is playing THE GAME, enjoying the armies/tactics of my opponent, and having fun.  I play to score the most points possible and my entertainment is not measured by how many points I accumulate.  Don't get me wrong, I play to win, but I also play with a list I feel comfortable playing.  The lesson I learned is that you can't please everyone and from then on I disregarded the overall score as the focus.  Might sound womanish, but I am comfortable enough with myself to express it.  Plus, I'm big enough to knock someones teeth out if they poke fun at me 

You got your cherry broke at your first BIG tourney   It probably is the best thing that could have happened to you.  Hopefully, now you will be liberated from the "overall points championship" demon and focus on the overall enjoyment factor.  You have it so much better than a lot of people.  You are playing with several friends from your local shop/area, you are playing a list you feel comfortable playing, and you are playing in an awesome gaming environment.  I am a gaming whore.  I drove to the GD @ 3am, played 3 games, and drove home the same day getting in just before midnight.  My 11 year old son played @ the LOTR tables all day, had a great time, and it would not have mattered if I got massacred all three games, the trip was worth every minute.  The only dissappointment I had was that the stores were not open before or after the tourney so I only bought a T-gak for my son as the registers were closing.

Anyways, good luck with your tourney.  Please send me an invite to it when you get a date.  I will not "chipmunk" anybody and I'm sure I will have fun!

I think sportsmanship is very important but let's be honest... some people you play make it a game within the game to score high. I would rather play someone who is honest rather than try to play me like a fiddle or bring their comp friendly list and roll eyes about those 'power lists'. All in all the soft scores are very important. What I say is of you figure out someone took you for a ride to score high on their soft scores then spread the word. What comes around goes around.

- G

I would have to agree with Voodoo Boyz. "Chipmunk" scores are weak. I got a perfect 60 points for battle points and got a 26 out of 30 for Spotsmanship. I came in second over all. Those four point cost me first.

Here is my battle report.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/17/postid/173991/view/topic/Default.aspx

I didn't run a min/max list and I had three great games with no arguments. Hell, I won with an army that people say that no one should win with. Foot slogging Khorne. I should have gotten positive points for not running Mech Tau/Eldar, Nidzila, or Min/Max Marines. Oh well, second place is nothing to sneeze at.

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 06/30/2007 2:47 PM

His movement brought the plague marines closer and they rapid fired into one of my 6 man squads, killing a few but I made my morale checks. 

Did they deploy out of LoS?  If they didn't, no way they could have rapid fired as they would have had to deploy more than 18" away.

It's a fact that people cheat on soft scores...Either up or down. What you are doing (max for not bad game) is a form of cheating also.

Chimpmunking scores is the same.

Especially when there is no accountability for either way.

No one seems to get that the event was a TOURNAMENT not a hobby competition, which is what Gw makes it. For all those people complaining about no comp, it is your choice to run what you do, so if you bring a "knife to the gun fight" thats your choice, and just because your opponent brought an anti-tank .5 caliber rifle, doesn't mean he should loss points. I got it worse then most, getiing 20 points on my sports, when I know one of my opponents gave me a 10. These were people that were older then me (I'm 16) and said nothing the entire game as soon as they started losing, acting like little children. They then went on to give me low sports even after I tried to mess around and be nice to them. I even went up to one of my opponents, before I even knew my sports points, and asked him how his 2nd game went and who he played, etc. My list was Saim-Hann with:

falcon

2 fire prisms

2 4 man units of shining spears

2 vypers with scatter and shurcannon

unit of 6 clowns

Autarch on jetbike

I'm not gonna say my army is easy to kill, but is by no means abusive or points depreciative like many other armies of that ilk. Out of the 4 times my grav tanks were glanced, they exploded 2 of those times, so my opponents can't complain about the holofields either, it just came down to plain bitterness.

Posted By Green Bloater on 07/01/2007 9:54 AM
If you play min/max SM are you not being somewhat of a hypocrite to harp on list abuse?

- G

I'm not one to harp on list abuse at a no-comp tourny.

What I want to do with my tournament setup idea is to make it such that abusive lists (and I even said, like the one I ran at this event) are at a disadvantage, not coming into the game with a marked advantage over their opponents. 

@KhaosBob - I have pics of your army, it was amazing.  You got 3 Massacres? I was told that the only one who did that was the Nids player who took 3rd, and no one else got a 60 in battle.  I know that the guy personally who took 1st had 2 Massacres and a Major.  I was interested in seeing what the score sheet looked like when GW publishes the results.

@Skyth - I'm sure he did deploy out of LOS, because he did have the rapid fire on turn 1, I'm not 100% but looking back on it, it's something I'd have caught if he tried to pull something funny.

I'll try and get my last batrep up tommorrow, it's pretty funny actually vs. a non-optimal Mech Eldar played by a really nice guy who was representing Blue Table Painting.

I think if you look at the Adepticon missions that feature three objectives per game that can help get you where you want to be in terms of thetype of tournament you are talking about hosting. Three objectives if selected properly help to ensure that balanced army lists have an advantage. What is a balanced army list versus an abusive list? Can a balanced list also be abusive... probably but not so likely as what you refer to as abusive lists tend to be min/maxed and are better at a couple things rather than three. The three things I refer to are mobility, shooting and close combat prowess. A balanced list is better able to hold its own versus the stereo-typical power lists (e.g., drop pod Marines, mech aliens, etc.) and also has better capability to meet all three objectives. I have found that most people like the idea of three objectives per mission and this can be a great marketing tool. Tool... heh.

- G

Well ain't you suckas lucky, I managed to get some work done at home early and get some time to relax, so here comes that last batrep.

As stated I played a really nice guy who represents and does some painting for Blue Table Painting. He apparantly is going to all the GT's in the circuit this year and he did well in Atlanta I heard, and he had a very, VERY nice looking Eldar army that at 1500 points I felt was sub-optimal.

That said, it was still Eldar and it was Recon, I wasn't going to be taking any chances. Also his display base still had his 1750 list displayed on it, and he only was using part of the list for this tournament, so his army on display looked a LOT bigger than it ended up being on the table.

I did get pics of the army (though not that they do it justice from that distance), but not at deployment, so you'll have to stick with my write up to guide you through the game.

His list was approximately:
Farseer - Doom, Fortune, Ghost Helm...and some stuff.

10 Banshee's, Exarch with upgrade, in Serpent with Vectored Engines and Stones
10 Scorpion's, Exarch with Klaw, in Serpent with Vectored Engines and Stones

6 Dire Avengers, Exarch with Power Sword and Defend (in Falcon)
5 or 6 Pathfinders

Vyper with Scatter laser I think, x2

3 Dark Reapers
1 Falcon with Shurican Cannon (I think), but it had Holofields, Stones, and Vectored Engines

I feel bad because his name is on the tip of my tounge but I can't remember it. Really nice guy, especially considering what went down during the game, as you'll
see.

We were on table 6 for our game, and it had a LOT of terrain. And it was big terrain. I think there were 8 pieces and most of them were quite very large, ie about 12"x8" pices: 2 Hills, 3 bunches of some 4+ Cover Rocks (which I only started counting as 4+ cover in this game when he informed me that's what the saves were supposed to be), and 3x woods.

Here's where things got off a bit interesting. The terrain was messed up as usual, so we said "lets place pieces, alternating". Having just started Fantasy not too long ago, I was getting the hang of placing terrain that favored me, just that this was a LOT of terrain. I started putting big pieces of terrain in each deployment zone, and he put big pieces accross the center, but alternated - and before I had any pieces left that could really stop him, we had an effective blocking LOS WALL going accross the center of the board, with like one open area to clear cross through on what would be my right flank. The "wall" as I'd call it was favored more towards one side than the other.

Luckily I won the roll to pick sides and I picked the side that the wall was "closer" to the table edge. It wasn't an easy choice, I had no fire lanes at all, but I realized exactly what the game was going to be. I had a lot of cover on my side of the board to deploy in, much of it 4+ cover. He had to come to me to win, he had assault units and while his shooting was respectable, it wasn't what I had packing. In the end, he'd have to come to me and he's going to really have to get into assault to work. So I basically hunkered down:

Las/Plas squads deployed completely in cover accross the two large terrain features I had on the board. 5+ cover on the left flank, 4+ Cover on the right. One speeder deployed on the right, the assault squad + another speeder went on the left flank. The termies did the obvious and waited on the battle barge.

His skimmers were all easily hidden out of LOS, his Dark Reapers deployed in cover where they did get LOS to the tac squads in the 4+ cover on my right flank. His pathfinders infiltrated very close by in some 4+ cover that was in the center of the "wall", giving them nice 2+ cover saves. I got lucky and we rolled nothing for dusk and dawn.

We rolled to see who goes first and I won, once again I made my opponent go first.
Skimmers moved out, a wave serpent with the scorpions goes to the right flank, along with the Falcon, hovering in/above the terrain in the "wall" but outside of other portions of it so that it could technically claim to be out of LOS from the Las/Plas squads on the left flank. On the left, his Serpent with Banshees came up but decided to hide behind the wall for a turn rather than get exposed to guns.

His shooting saw almost all of the one Las/Plas squad on the right flank (in 4+ cover no less) die to just the Lascannon marine (to be fair, they got doomed). He fails his morale check, but falls back a paltry 2" (4", halved due to difficult terrain).
My turn 1, or what I like to call "the beginnings of stupid luck". ATSKNF causes the Marine to rally, who passes his all on his own check, and my opponent is stunned to learn that he can fire that turn (it's good to be the poster boy army). The speeders come out to play, and face the Falcon/Pathfinders, giving me a choice of what to do.
The Assault Marines stay put to try and ward off the potential turn 3 assault from the scorpions.

And so the luck begins. First lascannon into the Serpent with scorptions. Hits. Glances. Six, destroyed. BAM, a bunch of Scorpions die (I think it was like 5 or 6 of them, he didn't have a lot left though I may be off on his starting number), and they're entangled. 2 Lascannons and plasma shoot at the falcon and don't even get their glances.

Las/Plas on the left flank shoots at its only valid target the pathfinders. I think I managed to kill one of them, because he said he was going to fortune the 2+ save next turn to stop sillyness like that from happening. And then the speeders assault cannons spin up to shoot the Falcon, and I got my one glancing hit, yay no shooting next turn.

Back to him, turn 2 -
The serpent with the banshees comes over the hill to play and shoots at the one speeder, which gets shaken, lucky me.

The Falcon comes around and moves closer to my squads and the pathfinders in cover to still limit LOS to it from my left flank and to get closer to deliver its Dire Avengers who he had geared for assault (which I thought was odd). The Vypers come around more to the flank and start shooting, the shooting put casualties on me, but didn't do much of anything signifigant.

Then my luck started, again. Farseer goes for Doom. Perils of the Warp. Ghost Helm save, Fails. Goes for his Invulnerable Save (which I was surprized at, I though you only got one save from it), but that also fails. Farseer goes instasplat by the Warp.

There was an audible "WOW" from both sides of the table.

The rest of his shooting wasn't all that impressive, actually I think he pinned a Las/Plas squad.

My Turn 2 - Where I won the game through good rolls.

Shaken Speeder zooms off to recover, going 1" behind the Waveserpent that was in range and LOS of two Las/Plas squads, a newly deepstruck Terminator squad, and one speeder. Second speeder moves 7" and gets into a good fire arc on his Serpent but possibly also the Pathfinders.

Assault Marines see that the squads on the right are now safe from the nicely far away, non-fleet of footing Scorpions and so come out and spend their one turn exposed to the firepower of the Pathfinders and two skimmers who were about to be at least shaken, to get a charge off on the Pathfinders and start clearing things out. Plan was to hit them and then do any mop up duties off the Banshees when they got out on the other flank.

I didn't need them for the last part. First Lascannon shoots at the wave serpent with banshees. Hits. Glances. Six. Dead. 7 Banshees live. Due to a confusing rules reading, he said that he could get the banshees out of the serpent because they could be within 2" of the corner of the back of his serpent without coming within 1" of the speeder who was kind of diagonal on the back off the serpent. Considering how bad it was going for this guy, I didn't want to try and argue it. I was somewhat compelled by the idea that yes, he was within 2" of the embark point without ending up within 1" of the speeder, and I really didn't want to be a pain since I knew I could get a speeder or two on them plus terminators the next turn while they sat there. At this point, his army was falling apart and I almost knew I had the game in the bag.

Oh, but I wasn't done yet with the stupid luck.

Lascannon shoots Falcon. Glances. Double Fives, Falcons GROUNDED due to vectored engines. On turn 2.

Terminators deepstruck in, scattered back even MORE towards his deployment zone, and was in the same terrain features as the Dark Reapers, though way more than 6" away from eachother (more like 13-14" , and had nothing to shoot this turn, but couldn't get shot by anything hoping to live if it came close enough.

Back to him Turn 3.

Things are going bad. Pathfinders do nothing really to the Assault Squad except I think 1 casualty (yay Fearless with the Chaplain). Dire Avengers stay put in the Falcon for some reason. Dark Reapers and Vyper come by and shoot more of the Las/Plas squads, nothing too damaging happens, I'm well above scoring. His Scorpions try to advance to the right flanks las/plas entrenchment. A vyper comes close to make sure the falling back Lascannon marine stays falling back.

My turn 3

Terminators on the left flank move up the hill to get LOS on the entangled banshees. Speeders move to ensure glancing hits, and one has LOS to the Banshees.

The banshees died as my opponent learned that Assault Cannons and Heavy Bolters are AP4. and from the angle I was shooting, there was no cover saves to be had from the wreck and how he had to position his troops.

Terminators in his Deployment Zone move through difficult terrain and and get LOS on one whole dark reaper, who meets assault cannons and dies. The squad holds.
Assault Marines and Chaplain charge the Pathfinders in cover. Strike Simo, the Pathfinders die but manage to kill 2 assault Marines. WOW.

The non moving Falcon gets GLANCED again by the Las/Plas squad and gets shaken. Oh well, can't complain about that one considering how well I rolled the last few turns.

One Vyper gets a glancing 4 off a Lascannon shot and dies.

His Turn 4.

Dire Avengers get out, shoot the assault marines and then assault. I learn that Defend means I get -1 Attack. Yay me. I killed like 1 Dire Avenger and he puts down like 2 Assault Marines. I'm losing combat but not outnumbered, he consolodates so the chaplain is now in the fight.

I forget what his shooting did but I don't remember it being very effective. And things start moving very fast now as there's not a lot left to do.

My Turn 4.

Terminators on the left flank advance towards his deployment zone, the Wall and huge terrain means they're not getting shot as they go to score at full strenght. The other terminator squad moves up and wipes out the rest of the Dark Reapers.
Las/Plas shooting sees the scorpions go down to just the Exarch, who passes morale and last man standing. My one marine with Lascannon finally runs off the board due to the Vyper being so close by, but out of LOS of my Las/Plas squads.
Las/Plas shooting also sees the Falcon penetrated and destroyed. It always feels good when that happens, though it was dampered a bit because my opponent wasn't playing a super cheesed out Mech Eldar and didn't deserve to have his last game of the tournament cut short so decisively so quickly.

Assault sees the chaplain and go go DOWN to the Dire Avengers. I had a wound left on the chaplain after losing the rest of the Assault Marines, but was outnumbered 4 to 1 and failed my saves. All things considered how the game was going, I wasn't going to complain.

His Turn 5.

Not much left here. The Vyper lines up so that he can sort of hide out in terrain, the Exarch gets into assault though and starts cleaning out the terrain area of Marines. He consolodates into the other Las Plas squad after killing what was left of the one he charged. Still with one guy and not scoring, I wasn't too worried. The Dire Avengers move out of the area terrain to stay out of LOS of part of my guns, but don't get far enough away...

My Turn 5.

Las/Plas squad on the left Flank moves towards the edge of the terrain feature to make sure I can get a Lascannon on most of where the vyper can hope to go and score. Can't shoot this turn, but has LOS to it.

One speeder moves into/between the terrain in a little niche and gets a bead on the Dire Avengers, who feel AP4 death. The other speeder is close by to try and either go Vyper Hunting or score. I can do either/or with both speeders. Terminators solidy get into scoring position and the last Las/Plas squad bites it in my assault phase.

His turn 6.
Vyper comes out and shoots the speeder, trying to get some VP's and stay out of Las/Plas range. Shooting does nothing but see the thing lose the assault cannon and get shaken - it's still moving.
Scorpion hides in terrain to avoid getting killed by Las/Plas.

My Turn 6.
After some quick math in my head, the one speeder moves into scoring position and the other one made the choice to come out and try and shoot the Vyper out of the sky and out of my Deployment Zone (more of a VP swing that way instead of just scoring on its own). I blow the Vyper up and the game ends with him having only a Scorpion Exarch Alive. I have 2 Las/Plas squads, both terminator squads (scoring), and both speeders (one scoring). Massacre to me.

In the end, we were talking about tournaments and painting and all sorts of stuff, and going over about just how badly the game went for him due to the dice rolls that went down in turns 1-2, and how despite how he put the terrain down in the perfect way I entrenched myself knowing he had to come to me and got my lucky dice rolls and did what I could to limit him and it worked. Sometimes the game comes down to dice. He was the player where he asked what I scored him for sports, told him exactly "you were a really nice guy and there were no rules problems, 10" and he said he was giving me a 10 as well.

Really going to work on getting my hosting situation fixed so I can upload pics of his army. The guy greenstuffed fire and skulls/bone cages on to his wave serpents and vehicles and it looked amazing. The army was definitely pro-painted, because he's a pro-painter!

Really nice guy, really nice army, obviously a good player from the choices he made, and the list wasn't even close to being abusive. Just that the game wasn't even close because I got a few key dice rolls.

So that was my RT experience at Games Day. It was fun, and though I was bummed out about the lack of a 30 in sports, Mann is right that I simply expected people to have the same outlook I do (seeing sports scoring as a joke), and given that the people who were openly talking about it at the tables around me (I was next to the Ork player who got canned in 3 turns by my friend with the Zilla Nids) I was assuming that I'd get full marks like all the other local stuff I've done.
Oh well, there's going to be next year when I take something that isn't as powered up as this list is. Maybe even the Orks might come out if their new codex isn't completely worthless. Barring that the Necrons will come to harvest.

You aren't allowed an invulnerable vs perils. Just the ghost helm save.

The Eldar guy is Mike Sagar and that is a damn beautiful Eldar army.

Voodoo. Stuff happens and it all depends on who you play in Tournaments with the right matchup and the right mission can be all what makes an overall champion especially in a tournament that is 80 players and only 3 games to separate the winner.

  I am just wondering what the hell is the critera for Best Sportsman or do they just pick someone at random?

It seemed as if players choice votes were the deciding factors.

Voodoo if you ever make your way down to Houston/Austin, you've an opponent to play. You crack jokes, I'll bring the booze.

So long as it's a decent dark beer, you've got yourself a game.

PS. You can never go wrong with Guinness. If Bugman's XXX was a real beer, it'd be like Guinness.