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Haven't seen it reported in US media yet, but Dutch media are reporting that the meeting between NK and Pompeo has ended badly, with NK reportedly saying it would only denuclearize if the US does the same. Just the best deals.

If anyone feels like looking at it:
https://nos.nl/artikel/2240348-noord-korea-tegen-eenzijdige-ontmanteling-kernwapens-na-vervolggesprek-met-vs.html

US source without that reported gem:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/north-korean-negotiator-teases-and-flatters-as-pompeo-enters-second-day-of-talks/2018/07/07/d2a06324-8175-4589-bf08-def6e56aa962_story.html?utm_term=.82c944456a4d

So far NK has done nothing.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Haven't seen it reported in US media yet, but Dutch media are reporting that the meeting between NK and Pompeo has ended badly, with NK reportedly saying it would only denuclearize if the US does the same. Just the best deals.

If anyone feels like looking at it:
https://nos.nl/artikel/2240348-noord-korea-tegen-eenzijdige-ontmanteling-kernwapens-na-vervolggesprek-met-vs.html

US source without that reported gem:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/north-korean-negotiator-teases-and-flatters-as-pompeo-enters-second-day-of-talks/2018/07/07/d2a06324-8175-4589-bf08-def6e56aa962_story.html?utm_term=.82c944456a4d

So far NK has done nothing.

To be fair to them, NK would have to be mad to give up its nuclear weapons without getting something massive in return from the US. We all know how other countries who gave up their nuclear weapons or nuclear aspirations ended up.
If the US wants to see a denuclearised North Korea, that is a massive demand. It will have to be prepared to give the North Koreans something equally big in return for that. Simply lifting sanctions isn't going to cut it. If the US isn't prepared to make equal sacrifices to what they are demanding from North Korea, they will have to lower their demands to something more reasonable.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Haven't seen it reported in US media yet, but Dutch media are reporting that the meeting between NK and Pompeo has ended badly, with NK reportedly saying it would only denuclearize if the US does the same. Just the best deals.

If anyone feels like looking at it:
https://nos.nl/artikel/2240348-noord-korea-tegen-eenzijdige-ontmanteling-kernwapens-na-vervolggesprek-met-vs.html

US source without that reported gem:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/north-korean-negotiator-teases-and-flatters-as-pompeo-enters-second-day-of-talks/2018/07/07/d2a06324-8175-4589-bf08-def6e56aa962_story.html?utm_term=.82c944456a4d

So far NK has done nothing.

To be fair to them, NK would have to be mad to give up its nuclear weapons without getting something massive in return from the US. We all know how other countries who gave up their nuclear weapons or nuclear aspirations ended up.
If the US wants to see a denuclearised North Korea, that is a massive demand. It will have to be prepared to give the North Koreans something equally big in return for that. Simply lifting sanctions isn't going to cut it. If the US isn't prepared to make equal sacrifices to what they are demanding from North Korea, they will have to lower their demands to something more reasonable.

Of course, if NK is honest, then its still a huge demand. Its unlikely the Trump admin can give in that much and still save face. And with the US pushing new sanctions through and demanding one sides efforts its hard to see this going anywhere.

But even considering all of the above, NK hasn't even done the bare minimum like trying to repatriate US remains (even though Trump falsely claimed they did), which is pretty non-committal. Doesn't stop Pompeo from pretending its going well though.

The Trump admin can't really give NK all that much, anyway, without looking like complete hypocrites after tearing up the Iran deal.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The Trump admin can't really give NK all that much, anyway, without looking like complete hypocrites after tearing up the Iran deal.

Yeah, good luck getting North Korea to agree to IAEA inspections of their military bases, which was apparently crucial to why the Iran deal was supposedly bad.

We've got Trump coming over to Britain next week, and the bulk of his time will be spent up here in Scotland as he inspects his golf courses.

Two years ago, I reminded people that Trump's new golf courses resulted in evictions and valuable scientific sites being bulldozed

The security operation is going to cost £5 million. That's my good tax money down the drain

Damn you America!!!!

Shakes fist and vows to buy more Confederate Infantry for my Blackpowder force

Be happy it's just Trump coming your way... We got Trump and Putin coming here...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
We've got Trump coming over to Britain next week, and the bulk of his time will be spent up here in Scotland as he inspects his golf courses.

Two years ago, I reminded people that Trump's new golf courses resulted in evictions and valuable scientific sites being bulldozed

The security operation is going to cost £5 million. That's my good tax money down the drain

Damn you America!!!!

Shakes fist and vows to buy more Confederate Infantry for my Blackpowder force

I thought that Scotland banned Trump from entering?

 Iron_Captain wrote:
To be fair to them, NK would have to be mad to give up its nuclear weapons without getting something massive in return from the US. We all know how other countries who gave up their nuclear weapons or nuclear aspirations ended up.

Normally I would totally agree - nuclear weapons are the only way to 100% prevent a US invasion and if I were Iran I would be developing them as fast as I possibly could.

However, in this specific case, I think the carrot isn't worth the stick: maintaining a nuclear capacity is difficult, expensive, and incurs a lot of diplomatic difficulties. What do they gain in turn? Pretty much nothing: the main deterrent to an invasion isn't their nuclear capability but their conventional weapons which make South Korea into millions of hostages.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
If the US wants to see a denuclearised North Korea, that is a massive demand. It will have to be prepared to give the North Koreans something equally big in return for that. Simply lifting sanctions isn't going to cut it.

I disagree here as well - I think when your country is impoverished as NK is, lifting sanctions is a pretty big get.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
We've got Trump coming over to Britain next week, and the bulk of his time will be spent up here in Scotland as he inspects his golf courses.

Two years ago, I reminded people that Trump's new golf courses resulted in evictions and valuable scientific sites being bulldozed

The security operation is going to cost £5 million. That's my good tax money down the drain

Damn you America!!!!

Shakes fist and vows to buy more Confederate Infantry for my Blackpowder force

Didn't I read somewhere that he will also be meeting the queen? I would love to be a fly on the wall for that meeting.

 Ouze wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
If the US wants to see a denuclearised North Korea, that is a massive demand. It will have to be prepared to give the North Koreans something equally big in return for that. Simply lifting sanctions isn't going to cut it.

I disagree here as well - I think when your country is impoverished as NK is, lifting sanctions is a pretty big get.

Not if you are a regime for which the well-being and financial situation of the common people is only a peripheral concern. For the North Koreans, the survival of their regime and the Kim dynasty is of paramount importance. That trumps all their other concerns.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Didn't I read somewhere that he will also be meeting the queen? I would love to be a fly on the wall for that meeting.

With a bit of luck he'll try to touch her inappropriately and get brought down by the Queens Guard.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Didn't I read somewhere that he will also be meeting the queen? I would love to be a fly on the wall for that meeting.

With a bit of luck he'll try to touch her inappropriately and get brought down by the Queens Guard.

I hope they wheel Prince Phillip out so he can say something insulting and it'll be attributed to eccentric old man.

Can he out-Trump the Trump?

Has there ever been a country that once achieving nuclear/atomic weapon capability, has actually denuclearized?

I dont seem to recall any.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Has there ever been a country that once achieving nuclear/atomic weapon capability, has actually denuclearized?

I dont seem to recall any.

South Africa is the only one I can think of.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Has there ever been a country that once achieving nuclear/atomic weapon capability, has actually denuclearized?

I dont seem to recall any.

Ukraine, but we all saw how that turned out.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Has there ever been a country that once achieving nuclear/atomic weapon capability, has actually denuclearized?

I dont seem to recall any.

Ukraine, but we all saw how that turned out.

Ukraine had weapons, but Russia held the codes.

They were just big and extremely expensive paperweights for the independent Ukraine.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
We've got Trump coming over to Britain next week, and the bulk of his time will be spent up here in Scotland as he inspects his golf courses.

Two years ago, I reminded people that Trump's new golf courses resulted in evictions and valuable scientific sites being bulldozed

The security operation is going to cost £5 million. That's my good tax money down the drain

Damn you America!!!!

Shakes fist and vows to buy more Confederate Infantry for my Blackpowder force

Didn't I read somewhere that he will also be meeting the queen? I would love to be a fly on the wall for that meeting.

I'm a Republican, as in against the monarchy, and not a GOP supporter, but I do have a sneaking admiration for Queen Elizabeth, as over the years, she's had to meet almost every tyrant and dictator from the last 70 years.


Talk about doing your duty for the nation, because it can't have been easy meeting and entertaining those butchers.

I think's she's met almost every US president since WW2, and of course, Winston Churchill. In a way, she's the last link to the past.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
We've got Trump coming over to Britain next week, and the bulk of his time will be spent up here in Scotland as he inspects his golf courses.

Two years ago, I reminded people that Trump's new golf courses resulted in evictions and valuable scientific sites being bulldozed

The security operation is going to cost £5 million. That's my good tax money down the drain

Damn you America!!!!

Shakes fist and vows to buy more Confederate Infantry for my Blackpowder force

I thought that Scotland banned Trump from entering?

So did I

I will be writing to my MSP in due course. Then again, their office is 30 minutes away in the car. I might pay them a visit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Didn't I read somewhere that he will also be meeting the queen? I would love to be a fly on the wall for that meeting.

With a bit of luck he'll try to touch her inappropriately and get brought down by the Queens Guard.

Those corgis are trained to go for the groin


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Didn't I read somewhere that he will also be meeting the queen? I would love to be a fly on the wall for that meeting.

With a bit of luck he'll try to touch her inappropriately and get brought down by the Queens Guard.

I hope they wheel Prince Phillip out so he can say something insulting and it'll be attributed to eccentric old man.

To be fair to Philip, at least he took on the Nazis with his Destroyer. I think his ship got torpedoed in the Med or something.

US dakka members will correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Trump dodge 'Nam and spend the war propping up a bar in New York?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


US dakka members will correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Trump dodge 'Nam and spend the war propping up a bar in New York?

Trump is on the record saying his Vietnam was dodging STD's.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


US dakka members will correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Trump dodge 'Nam and spend the war propping up a bar in New York?

Dodging STDs (his own personal Vietnam apparently) and nursing his bone spurs...

STDs?

That's a crass and poor choice of words. Whatever you may think of 'Nam, a lot of people died, and obviously, a lot of US service personnel died.

There's nothing in the US constitution that says you have to be ex-military to hold public office, and thank God for that

but you can only hope that as commander in chief, Trump will show some maturity when handling military issues. Then again, his comments about the Khan family during the election were a disgrace.

And it's always a question of when, not if, for a POTUS, when it comes to military action.

Dodging the draft was unquestionably the correct thing to do, anyway. Or what, do you think that people should want to go halfway across the globe to die in the mud for the sake of invading a country and butchering its population? Trump has many faults but not fighting in the Vietnam War definitely isn't one of them.

Rosebuddy wrote:
Dodging the draft was unquestionably the correct thing to do, anyway. Or what, do you think that people should want to go halfway across the globe to die in the mud for the sake of invading a country and butchering its population? Trump has many faults but not fighting in the Vietnam War definitely isn't one of them.

For sure, Vietnam was a disaster for the USA and the civilians of that region, and not something that you'd want to get involved with.

But Trump can't brag about dodging Vietnam and then take cheap shots at people like John McCain, who did fight there.

It makes Trump look like a complete

Rosebuddy wrote:
Trump has many faults but not fighting in the Vietnam War definitely isn't one of them.

Yes and no. Conscientious objection to an unwarranted or unjust war is a brave and principled thing to do. Faking a disability to get out of service isn't quite the same thing, but 'brave and principled' aren't exactly Trump adjectives so let's just assume it was the only way he could think of to not go. Not wanting to go to war if you don't agree with it isn't a bad thing per sé, but having cheap pops at actual veterans isn't then the done thing.

It's no wonder all the lovely young '2nd amendment people' dressed in camo you see at the Trump rallies and overseeing the marches, who I'm going to paint with abroad strokes and assume fetishise military without wanting to serve themselves, are so in love with him.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
Dodging the draft was unquestionably the correct thing to do, anyway. Or what, do you think that people should want to go halfway across the globe to die in the mud for the sake of invading a country and butchering its population? Trump has many faults but not fighting in the Vietnam War definitely isn't one of them.

For sure, Vietnam was a disaster for the USA and the civilians of that region, and not something that you'd want to get involved with.

But Trump can't brag about dodging Vietnam and then take cheap shots at people like John McCain, who did fight there.

It makes Trump look like a complete

Above all others, I thought that moment during the campaign (when he made the joke about McCain being captured) was absolutely, certainly, definitely without any doubt at all, the end of him.

Whatever else unites the US public (I thought), despite VIetnam being the almighty failure it was, those that did go and fight, with little understanding of what they were fighting for. beyond 'duty' and their friends, deserve the very greatest respect.

2 years later President I-Would-Have-Run-In-But-Bone-Spurs is coming for a visit.

 Riquende wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
Trump has many faults but not fighting in the Vietnam War definitely isn't one of them.

Yes and no. Conscientious objection to an unwarranted or unjust war is a brave and principled thing to do. Faking a disability to get out of service isn't quite the same thing, but 'brave and principled' aren't exactly Trump adjectives so let's just assume it was the only way he could think of to not go.

Yup. A conscientious objector will refuse to serve or kill and accept the consequences of that act. Trump never criticised the Vietnam War.

And many conscientious objectors did go and serve, in positions like medics where they could refuse to kill but still help people, such as Desmond Doss.

A great episode of Dad's Army highlights this, where they discover that one of them, Godfrey, was a conscientious objector in WW1. They call him a coward and treat him badly, until the end when he enters a smoke filled room and saves Captain Mainwaring during an exercise. It then comes out that Godfrey did serve in WW1, as a stretcher bearer, and received the Military Medal for saving the lives of men under fire. It's also worth pointing out that the actor who played Godfrey did serve in WW1. His left hand was injured on the Somme, leaving it unusable, his legs were hit by shrapnel, he was bayoneted in the groin and hit on the head by a german's rifle butt which made him prone to blackouts.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
Dodging the draft was unquestionably the correct thing to do, anyway. Or what, do you think that people should want to go halfway across the globe to die in the mud for the sake of invading a country and butchering its population? Trump has many faults but not fighting in the Vietnam War definitely isn't one of them.

For sure, Vietnam was a disaster for the USA and the civilians of that region, and not something that you'd want to get involved with.

But Trump can't brag about dodging Vietnam and then take cheap shots at people like John McCain, who did fight there.

It makes Trump look like a complete

Not look like.
IS.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
STDs?

That's a crass and poor choice of words. Whatever you may think of 'Nam, a lot of people died, and obviously, a lot of US service personnel died.

There's nothing in the US constitution that says you have to be ex-military to hold public office, and thank God for that

but you can only hope that as commander in chief, Trump will show some maturity when handling military issues. Then again, his comments about the Khan family during the election were a disgrace.

And it's always a question of when, not if, for a POTUS, when it comes to military action.

You misunderstood me. He has literally said this.

https://people.com/politics/trump-boasted-of-avoiding-stds-while-dating-vaginas-are-landmines-it-was-my-personal-vietnam/

What I am saddest about is that the Republican party has fully accepted the "Ends justify the means." It makes it hard to find the common ground that they feel that they are trying to do (what they think is) the right thing.

Now some of the policies feel like they were written by 90s villians....