5th Edition Rumors Round 3

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**Tacobake**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:N00b.

If you had a copy of the RT Vehicle Companion (with targeting overlay), you'd change your tune.

Noob? Noob?

You really are a clueless wonder aren't you John?

BYE

JohnHwangDD wrote:
When you look at who did the heavy lifting in WW2, Canada is nowhere to be found. In WW1, the hard business was by the French, Russians, and Brits. Not Canada (nor the US, FWIW). In WW2, the 51st state managed to see even less action resulting in even fewer casualties than in WW1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

For the most part, "Canadian military history" consists of little more than riding on someone else's coattails.

If you've got something to say, back it up, please. Otherwise, you can sit down and shut up.

You're a slow. How can we back that up. We can start by the gratuitous insulting of the Canadian 'casualties' that gave their lives in freedom's name in both WWI and WWII including but not limited to Vimy Ridge and Juno beach. I'm a statistician by trade (which is why I feel like I have to mention it at all), why don't you run some of those numbers of yours through a calculator and find out just how willing and able the relatively small population of Canada really was.

Fortunately the Canadian men and women whose lives you feel failed to contribute to the 'hard business' of winning WWI and WWII don't need 'Tacobake' on the Internets to defend their honor. Their legacy speaks for itself.

I trust that didn't come across as a personal attack.

**Tacobake**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
With these rumors in effect, I could see basic Guardsmen going to 4.5 or even 4 pts. They suck in HtH and always need to shoot. So they gain nothing from the nerfed Fleet option. Their enemies will move faster, and they're only 10 guys with 1 WS3 S3 attack. They can't mob or wear good armor.

And on subject I wouldn't be surprised if there was another rule that 'cancelled out' the fleet option, for instance maybe consolidate will be done away with or charge reactions will be implemented.

**Voodoo Boyz**

I can't believe people are questioning the countries and soldiers who fought in WW2 in a thread about 5th edition.

Can we please keep on talking about our little pretend plastic wars and gleefully ignore the real ones for a little while in this little slice of the internets?

**Tacobake**

Voodoo Boyz wrote:I can't believe slowed talking monkeys are questioning the countries and soldiers who fought in WW2 in a thread about 5th edition.

oops.

Look, I understand the value of moderated discussion, not to mention ignoring obvious trolls, but 'hard business' is a bit much, and it has nothing to do with what country I live in it's a question of basic manners, especially after the guy pulls up a page that listed numbers of killed and wounded.

**Freaky Freddy**

Salvation122 wrote:Via Bell of Lost Souls:
-------------------------------
Shooting
-There's now a reason to have a BS higher than 5 (can we say 2+/5+?).
-All models friend or foe now block line of sight. Vehicles and Monstrous Creature can be targeted over intervening infantry.
-Area terrain does not block line of sight.
-All blast weapons now scatter.

Vehicles
-Defensive weapons on vehicles are now Str 4 and below.
-Skimmers Moving Fast is now a 5+ cover save. (I have heard this is the new rule for All Obscured Targets)
-Dedicated transports can now carry any unit (subject to normal restrictions, i.e., no Terminators) and are no longer the deathtraps they have been (no entangling, just pinning).
-AP 1 weapons add +1 to the vehicle damage chart instead of doing as they do now.
-Ordinance weapons roll 2d6 and pick the highest on the vehicle damage table.

Miscellaneous
-Independent Character targeting restrictions have been eased.
-There is no IC protection any longer unless he is joined to a unit
-ICs within 2" of a unit automatically join it.
-Dark Eldar are not gone, as they're mentioned in the rules (their jetbikes DO get the 6" assault).
-Frag grenades operate as plasma grenades now.
-Monstrous creatures get move through cover, not a reroll.
-Saving Throws are now made AFTER wound allocation. This means you could still roll all your generic troopers as a group, but will need to roll for each special model (serg, heavy weapons, etc) one by one. Torrent of Fire is gone.

Missions
-The missions are different enough that Troops only counting as scoring isn't as big a deal as it would be today.
-Victory points are calculated differently in "cleanse" style missions (points calculated depending on the FOC slot the dead unit took up).
-Scouts and Infiltrators can now try to outflank the enemy and come on as reserves from a different board edge.
-Deepstrike is the same, but if you can't place all the models, you roll on the "deepstrike mishap" table (50% you're dead, 50% you place yourself anywhere you like).

Overall, the rules look a lot more detailed. Not as detailed as 2nd edition, but now there's a difference between a guy standing on the roof of a building and a guy standing in the basement. Actual line of sight matters a lot more than "pretend" line of sight now.
-------------------------------
IC nerf seems unneeded, other than that I like pretty much everything.

I do feel the LoS rules suck. Just think of using Grot (Ork) or Grotesques (Dark Eldar) as meat shields to move more CC based units down the field.

**Voodoo Boyz**

Tacobake wrote:
Voodoo Boyz wrote:I can't believe slowed talking monkeys are questioning the countries and soldiers who fought in WW2 in a thread about 5th edition.

oops.

Look, I understand the value of moderated discussion, not to mention ignoring obvious trolls, but 'hard business' is a bit much, and it has nothing to do with what country I live in it's a question of basic manners, especially after the guy pulls up a page that listed numbers of killed and wounded.

I don't disagree that what was said about "hard business" was WAY out of line; I can't fault people for arguing over that and other off topic slights that came up during this thread. Personally, I tend not to criticize soldiers who have served honorably; especially not ones who are likely dead for a war fought 60 years ago.

But this thread went way off topic, and since there have been New Revelations about 5th Ed, however unreliable they may be; I figured a new thread would help out rather than just mucking around in here.

**keezus**

JohnHwangDD wrote:Canada has nothing of significance.

Foreign Legion? I'll bite and raise you JTF2. Nuff said.

And your comments about pure casualties as a measure of performance is a load of bollocks when you consider that Canada has a fraction of the US population. Canadian performance at Dieppe and Normandy was not insignificant - and considering proportional population to draw from, hardly the weaklings that you describe.

In before lock!

**Abadabadoobaddon**

JohnHwangDD wrote:Never going more than a generation without being embroiled in some sort of war would seem to be a decent start. 200+ years of nearly continuous combat, so that's got to be some kind of record in human history.

And that's something to be proud of? A wiseman once said: wars not make one great.

**Frazzled**

1. I see thread four is going so thats good.

2. Lay off the Canadians

Maple donuts are a proof of the existence of God. They have sacrificed with us in WWI, WWII, and Afghanistan.

**skullspliter888**

@jfrazell amen

i hope the my country is better then your country is over yes me too .

what do you guys think about snipers with rending ?? I think i would be cool its like your guy got a head shot etc.

**Frazzled**

Would be good. Didn't see that though.

**Lorek**

We're done here. There are other 5th Edition threads, please take the discussion there. Warnings will be meted out as necessary.