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@Coldfire: Nope. The discussion was about the Capital Wasteland versus the Mojave wasteland as settings. The Raider discussion started with my response to this post:

Grakmar wrote:I love the Mojave in terms of all the different factions fighting for control. Every quest, I feel like I have to weigh the options of helping one faction vs another, and I'm not quite ready to commit yet. It makes your individual actions seem like they are part of the entire world.

It also gets bonus points for different levels of bad guys. Are The Kings evil? They're a gang that runs Freeside and aren't particularly nice, but they seem to be willing to play ball with the NCR and aren't working with slavers, etc. What about the Great Khans? They're sorta-raiders, but have been fairly reasonable in my interactions with them.

FO3 was a little too simple of the evil Enclave vs everyone else, with most isolated quests involving factions that never really come into play apart from that one quest.

Overall, I'm really enjoying that aspect of New Vegas. Reminds me quite a bit of Morrowind, and having to unite the different tribes/houses.

So, in terms of setting and story-telling more generally, the (generic) Raiders are motivation-less. That doesn't mean that they don't add color or depth to the setting. But they are a faction only in the sense that molerats are a faction. In other words, they are not.

What? Molerats are a faction! Racist.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:What? Molerats are a faction! Racist.

What's all this about Molerat Racing?

I found what looks like a molerat racing track but all the molerats had been eaten by a Mad Brahmin.

That was a molerat farm, no?

Maybe. Sometimes you'll find a place it gives you 10 exp and then...there's nothing. That was certainly one such place.

Actually Manchu it was this quote where which set off our discussion, for me at least

Manchu wrote:Yeah, Enclave was a bit rote. Not to mention the endless waves of explicitly motivation-less Raiders. Good point, Grakmar.

My only argument against you is that Raiders are not motivationless, they have little to no actual effect on the story but all I am saying is they do have reason to want to hurt you.

That is all i wanted to say, I agree with you on everything else and even though Raiders have the importance of common Mole Rats they still have a motivation, simply because it is not crucial to the story does not render them null.

As a faction, my good man. Keep that in mind.

Saving the ultimate cheat.
And...well... you can't not keep saving...just cause you never know when something goes terribad in terms of the game crashing.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Maybe. Sometimes you'll find a place it gives you 10 exp and then...there's nothing. That was certainly one such place.

Explore the ruins near that location. One of the buildings has some pretty nice loot in it.

But,

Sanctjud wrote:Saving the ultimate cheat.

That's a little backwards, especially given that you need to spend hundreds of hours on this kind of game to really "finish" it.

I shot Mr. House the face and stole his casino....not sure if that was the right move.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I shot Mr. House the face and stole his casino....not sure if that was the right move.

Well, it means you can't help Mr. House take over New Vegas. Depending on who you're looking to side with, that may or may not have been the right move.

I'm plan is....World Domination! MWA HA HA HA!

Grah! *Nerd Rage*

So, been playing New Vegas and finally went into Vegas. Checked out the Lucky 38 and snooped around. Left Vegas and did some more quests outside of NV. NOW every time I try to go back into Vegas, it freezes on me and I have to shut the 360 off. Then my save is corrupted!

CRAP!

Is there a fix or something I need to do or...??

brotherskeeper74 wrote:Is there a fix or something I need to do or...??

Yea. Buy it for PC.

Silly consoles. RPGs are for computers

Pretty much though, that's it. Never buy a Bethesda game for a console. ALWAYS go PC with their products. Reason being that if you get pelted with a hail of game ending crashes (Or rather, -when- you get pelted, because we all know Bethesda's games are full of buggy fail), you can always get patches and use the console codes to fix bugs and other little things.

Then that brings me to another problem. Need a better, portable laptop. OTR truck driver. Home on weekends, trying to spend it w/ family.

brotherskeeper74 wrote:

Then that brings me to another problem. Need a better, portable laptop. OTR truck driver. Home on weekends, trying to spend it w/ family.

Sell kidneys?

Can't. Sold the other one to get FO:NV and I think I need the other one.

I just said kidneys. I didn't say -your- kidneys

You're a truck driver. Just pick up hitch-hikers and trade them a ride for a kidney. It's a fair trade in my book.

I don't know, some of the people who are hitching, I don't think a person w/ ebola would want their kidneys.

You want that laptop or not? It's not going to buy itself. You've got to learn to be ruthless, like a used car salesman

Have you SEEN the people on the side of the road lately? Brrrrrrr..... Scary. I'd rather snuggle up to a ghoul reaver.

Nobody misses road side prostitutes.

Regarding the Raiders, survival is the ultimate motivation, isn't it? They have a group that accepts them, food, water, and drugs - they're basic needs are more or less being addressed.

There are many raiders who are able to be reasoned with and spoken to. The guy you kill to get "The Terrible Shotgun", Slick Jack from Broken Steel, the whole Powder Gang - plenty of depth there.

brotherskeeper74 wrote:Grah! *Nerd Rage*

So, been playing New Vegas and finally went into Vegas. Checked out the Lucky 38 and snooped around. Left Vegas and did some more quests outside of NV. NOW every time I try to go back into Vegas, it freezes on me and I have to shut the 360 off. Then my save is corrupted!

CRAP!

Is there a fix or something I need to do or...??

This is a common problem and will hopefully be fixed soon. From what I've heard, it comes from killing that guy that owes the Atomic Wrangler money and taking his hat. The game is still trying to load that hat, but it doesn't exist. There are four solutions, try them all and see if they work:

1) When loading New Vegas, leave the controller alone and don't touch anything until it's fully loaded. This may take a minute or so.
2) When entering New Vegas, wear an Old Cowboy Hat. If you don't have one, one can usually be found at the Crimson Caravan shop.
3) If worse comes to worse, take the monorail from Camp McCarran and don't enter the northern section of New Vegas (with Gomorrah and the Lucky 38). Be careful, you need to be on very good standing with the NCR or they will attack you if you try and enter the monorail.
4) Reload an old save from before you killed that guy. Don't kill him! The quest can still be completed by talking to him and passing a speech check.

My biggest advice for this game is to have multiple backup saves. It's still rather buggy and you need a save for every couple of hours of gameplay.

I've recently run into the issue where when I try to enter New Vegas from Freeside it says I need a key to get in. I noticed this after I bugged the 38's computer for the Followers.

It's really annoying because I didn't realize that until I had returned from doing a bunch of stuff for an hour or so realtime.

Infreak wrote:I've recently run into the issue where when I try to enter New Vegas from Freeside it says I need a key to get in. I noticed this after I bugged the 38's computer for the Followers.

It's really annoying because I didn't realize that until I had returned from doing a bunch of stuff for an hour or so realtime.

I hadn't heard this bug before, but looked into it. You have 2 solutions:

1) Kill a Securitron guarding the main gate. They have the key on them.

2) Take the tram in from Camp McCarran.

Well it looks like I'll have to kill the Secuitrons since the tram was blown up. I just hope it won't effect my rep with the Strip.

Infreak wrote:Well it looks like I'll have to kill the Secuitrons since the tram was blown up. I just hope it won't effect my rep with the Strip.

If you can do it while sneaking and use a silenced weapon to kill it in 1 shot, it shouldn't effect anything, or make the other Securitrons hostile.

I still haven't fought a Securitron, so I have no idea if this is actually possible. You may want to put it on very easy before doing this

Alternatively, you could hang out in Freeside for a LONG time. I saw a thug spawn near the Securitrons and do a bit of damage before he died. It should only take 100 thugs or so before they manage to kill one.