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What is pretty funny though: Almost everyone apart from the main character and a few companions have power armor training. If you reverse pickpocket power armor onto someone, they can put it on.

Utterly dumb.

I guess being dressed as Brotherhood creates a lot of problems....

It just breaks "the fifth wall," as it were. Or is programming the "sixth wall"?

there's 6 walls now? I just meant doesn't it make everyone hostile towards you? NCR aren't big fans of The Brotherhood.

Manchu wrote:Yeah, Enclave was a bit rote. Not to mention the endless waves of explicitly motivation-less Raiders. Good point, Grakmar.

How about Survival, thats a pretty strong motivation, Raiders consist of the outcasts of structured society, they are murderers, theives, drug addicts, hedonists and sadists all.

As for the Enclave I prefer them as an enemy, they are like the equal of the Brotherhood of Steel, power armoured and armed with a deadly assortment of weapons usually plasma. I simply cant take Caesers Legion seriously, what convinced a former Morman to dress up like a Roman Emperor and form a new Empire, its crazy like much of the Fallout Universe but it just seems a bit much.

ColdFire wrote:

Manchu wrote:Yeah, Enclave was a bit rote. Not to mention the endless waves of explicitly motivation-less Raiders. Good point, Grakmar.

How about Survival, thats a pretty strong motivation, Raiders consist of the outcasts of structured society, they are murderers, theives, drug addicts, hedonists and sadists all.

As for the Enclave I prefer them as an enemy, they are like the equal of the Brotherhood of Steel, power armoured and armed with a deadly assortment of weapons usually plasma. I simply cant take Caesers Legion seriously, what convinced a former Morman to dress up like a Roman Emperor and form a new Empire, its crazy like much of the Fallout Universe but it just seems a bit much.

I find Caesar, exactly as you have described him, to be pretty believable. It's not that far from the real drama of Mormon history, really. Anyway, I don't think the Raiders are really too focused on survival. You yourself bring up some of their most iconic traits: they're "drug addicts, hedonists and sadists all." None of that has anything to do with surviving.

So, I was tootlin around the Mojave today doing some quest or another, when all of a sudden I hit a massive wall of lag with such force I'm still recovering from the impact. My laptop had zero problems running the game with "high" settings, but for some unknown reason the game just runs painfully slow. Too slow to play, even. I lowered the settings, restarted the game, even restarted my computer, and nothing worked. Still an unreasonable amount of lag. Has anyone else had this problem playing on a PC?

Manchu wrote: Anyway, I don't think the Raiders are really too focused on survival. You yourself bring up some of their most iconic traits: they're "drug addicts, hedonists and sadists all." None of that has anything to do with surviving.

Gotta pass the time somehow. They don't have Dakka in the post-apocalyptic future.


They did seem like they cared about surviving though, killing and looting Enclave camps, staying in buildings with supplies( or near small towns with supplies) as well as following the three Commandments of Khorne (KILL! MAIM! BURN!) with some hedonism and drugs on the side..

The comparison to Khornate cultists is incredibly apt, Iur_tae_mont. As I recall, there is some Slaaneshi worship in there, as well.

In other words, survival is not the priority.

It's pretty clear the Fiends are a bunch of crazed druggies and not survivalists when they attack caravans and burn all the loot.

I just used the C-Finder on Driver Nephi and his crew. Apparently it stacks with the Meltdown perk. Next stop: Fortification Hill.

Beer_&_Bolters wrote:

Big Tim wrote:

Beer_&_Bolters wrote:Ive been enjoying it too. Call me crazy though, but it seems to be a lot harder than FO3. Wildlife is a lot more populace and dangerous (i keep getting mauled by these swarms of giant wasps). The random ambushes near locations seem to have more enemies and they appear a lot better armed than similar ambushes in FO3. the additions to the crafting system are really nice, and the fame system is cool too.

I am still just outside of Primm, so I am not very far in (no wasps yet) but I have noticed that there are far more geckos then then there were molerats etc. from FO3. And I love the "make your own guns and ammo" too. Maybe it is just me, but I also find it easier to aim without using VATS in this game, but maybe I am just imaging that...

The game is definitely harder though.

The wasps are towards the NE corner of the map, and are not the only dangerous enemies out there. I took a rather long detour while heading towards the next quest point and found myself in the wilderness, surrounded by these things. There were also packs of Deathclaws - one or two little ones and then the mommy. Considering i was only level 9 at the time, id say its a safe bet i wasnt supposed to be out there yet anyways lol

Spoilers in most of my below post




Man i had a level 26 running into the Deathclaw quarry also had two companions with me..... NOTHING short of The Fat Man launcher, Alien Blaster, or Monty Python Holy Hand Grenades (yes there in the game) will kill those mother truckers. I killed maybe 4 or 5 then would get ganked by 4 at a time, and if memory serves right their week to hollow point rounds and i think your "giant wasps" are the Cazadores.

Also just incase you stumble appon a place called "Deadwind Caverns" please stay out of it until you get some of the aformentioned guns, il just say Lengendary Deathclaw.... confirmed as the strongest/ hardest monster to kill in any Fallout gaem to date.

Get an anti-material rifle. It will 1-hit sneak critical a Deathclaw on normal.

That said, I love that Deathclaws are actually hard to kill. They were a joke in Fallout 3.

A massive patch that was in the works is now going through final checks before being certified. It should be released in a few weeks..

Manchu wrote:

ColdFire wrote:

Manchu wrote:Yeah, Enclave was a bit rote. Not to mention the endless waves of explicitly motivation-less Raiders. Good point, Grakmar.

How about Survival, thats a pretty strong motivation, Raiders consist of the outcasts of structured society, they are murderers, theives, drug addicts, hedonists and sadists all.

As for the Enclave I prefer them as an enemy, they are like the equal of the Brotherhood of Steel, power armoured and armed with a deadly assortment of weapons usually plasma. I simply cant take Caesers Legion seriously, what convinced a former Morman to dress up like a Roman Emperor and form a new Empire, its crazy like much of the Fallout Universe but it just seems a bit much.

I find Caesar, exactly as you have described him, to be pretty believable. It's not that far from the real drama of Mormon history, really. Anyway, I don't think the Raiders are really too focused on survival. You yourself bring up some of their most iconic traits: they're "drug addicts, hedonists and sadists all." None of that has anything to do with surviving.

Though I get your point simply because they are drug addicts, sadists and hedonists doesnt mean they dont need to eat, I simply meant to point out why they dont tend to simply ask you for food or supplies, its alot more fun for them to kill you for them.
I just felt that saying Raiders are motivation-less is a little strange, their motivation is simple, they want your food, water, drugs and supplies and they dont feel like asking nicely. Oh and they will probably enjoy killing you for them.
As for the drug addicts they have a pretty strong motivation, their weak willed individauls who lack any kind of self control or self discipline and rather then giving up the habit they find it easier to butcher the first traveller they find and hope to hell you have some Jet or Psycho .

ColdFire wrote:

Manchu wrote:

ColdFire wrote:

Manchu wrote:Yeah, Enclave was a bit rote. Not to mention the endless waves of explicitly motivation-less Raiders. Good point, Grakmar.

How about Survival, thats a pretty strong motivation, Raiders consist of the outcasts of structured society, they are murderers, theives, drug addicts, hedonists and sadists all.

As for the Enclave I prefer them as an enemy, they are like the equal of the Brotherhood of Steel, power armoured and armed with a deadly assortment of weapons usually plasma. I simply cant take Caesers Legion seriously, what convinced a former Morman to dress up like a Roman Emperor and form a new Empire, its crazy like much of the Fallout Universe but it just seems a bit much.

I find Caesar, exactly as you have described him, to be pretty believable. It's not that far from the real drama of Mormon history, really. Anyway, I don't think the Raiders are really too focused on survival. You yourself bring up some of their most iconic traits: they're "drug addicts, hedonists and sadists all." None of that has anything to do with surviving.

Though I get your point simply because they are drug addicts, sadists and hedonists doesnt mean they dont need to eat, I simply meant to point out why they dont tend to simply ask you for food or supplies, its alot more fun for them to kill you for them.
I just felt that saying Raiders are motivation-less is a little strange, their motivation is simple, they want your food, water, drugs and supplies and they dont feel like asking nicely. Oh and they will probably enjoy killing you for them.
As for the drug addicts they have a pretty strong motivation, their weak willed individauls who lack any kind of self control or self discipline and rather then giving up the habit they find it easier to butcher the first traveller they find and hope to hell you have some Jet or Psycho .

ColdFire wrote:

Manchu wrote:

ColdFire wrote:

Manchu wrote:Yeah, Enclave was a bit rote. Not to mention the endless waves of explicitly motivation-less Raiders. Good point, Grakmar.

How about Survival, thats a pretty strong motivation, Raiders consist of the outcasts of structured society, they are murderers, theives, drug addicts, hedonists and sadists all.

As for the Enclave I prefer them as an enemy, they are like the equal of the Brotherhood of Steel, power armoured and armed with a deadly assortment of weapons usually plasma. I simply cant take Caesers Legion seriously, what convinced a former Morman to dress up like a Roman Emperor and form a new Empire, its crazy like much of the Fallout Universe but it just seems a bit much.

I find Caesar, exactly as you have described him, to be pretty believable. It's not that far from the real drama of Mormon history, really. Anyway, I don't think the Raiders are really too focused on survival. You yourself bring up some of their most iconic traits: they're "drug addicts, hedonists and sadists all." None of that has anything to do with surviving.

Though I get your point simply because they are drug addicts, sadists and hedonists doesnt mean they dont need to eat, I simply meant to point out why they dont tend to simply ask you for food or supplies, its alot more fun for them to kill you for them.
I just felt that saying Raiders are motivation-less is a little strange, their motivation is simple, they want your food, water, drugs and supplies and they dont feel like asking nicely. Oh and they will probably enjoy killing you for them.
As for the drug addicts they have a pretty strong motivation, their weak willed individauls who lack any kind of self control or self discipline and rather then giving up the habit they find it easier to butcher the first traveller they find and hope to hell you have some Jet or Psycho .

It's not that I don't understand the Raider's motivation. It's that they seem a bit flat. There's zero gameplay interaction with them other than shooting them, so they seem rather pointless and fighting group after group looks exactly the same and gets incredibly repetitive.

I also agree with Coldfire's analysis of the Raider's motivation. But to put it in perspective, their motivation is equivalent to that of a dung beetle. Maybe less comlpicated, really.

Survival is just something you do. Everyone does it. Sure, it's a bit harder when the water is radioactive and you're in the west-end of Vegas. Nuclear armageddon or not, that doesn't mean you crouch-walk around all day wearing a sodded great big suit of armour and mashing 'v'.

Raiders exist to kick butt and chew bubblegum. Since no one has been producing bubblegum for the past couple of centuries supplies have been running a little low.

The analysis has been focued on Raiders as a faction/lifestyle in the setting rather than Raiders as an enemy in the game.

Unfortunately, since F3 raiders have been little else than 'an enemy in the game'. At least in the first two games you could reason with some of them.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Unfortunately, since F3 raiders have been little else than 'an enemy in the game'. At least in the first two games you could reason with some of them.

You can reason with some of them in New Vegas!

Caesar's Legion, The Great Khans, The Powder Gangers can all be worked with (although the Khans are the only ones I'd call pure raiders). And, you can even interact a bit with the Fiends. I haven't done anything with the Vipers or Jackals other than to shoot them on sight. Can you actually become peaceful with them?

I think the Vipers and Jackals are just retagged FO3 Raiders.

To clarify, this is supposed to indicate that the NCR is becoming more powerful on the frontier so that only the Khans have survived as a united power. The portrayal of the Khans--and especially that one guy who talks about his Khan parents--helps to heighten this sens that the Raider lifestyle is phasing out, becoming history.

filbert wrote:

ColdFire wrote:

Manchu wrote:

ColdFire wrote:

Manchu wrote:

Spoiler:

The raiders are the ones who produce and supply the chems to the fiends and the rest of the wastes so they aren't all sweetness and light.

Never said they were sweetness and light, they're the opposite. They are the dregs of society here to make life more miserable then it needs to be for their own selfish nature and inability to funstion in normal society.
My point was that the Raiders arent really that random, they have a motivation its just not very complex.

Grakmar wrote:

ColdFire wrote:

Manchu wrote:

ColdFire wrote:

Manchu wrote:It's not that I don't understand the Raider's motivation. It's that they seem a bit flat. There's zero gameplay interaction with them other than shooting them, so they seem rather pointless and fighting group after group looks exactly the same and gets incredibly repetitive.

I like iit because its realistic, you cant reason with every single individual especially in a wasteland with limited food and water and where brute strength is law. Coversation with Raiders would get pretty tedious though, for example Vault 3 is controlled by the Jackals or Vipers or one of them in NV. When you reach the door your met by a guard whose vocabulary basically amounts to f off or Ill blow your f'n head off.

Raiders were fine for what they were in Fallout 3, a believable problem in an apocalyptic situation and a handy constant ammo, food, chem, armour and weapon supply.

OMG< attack of the Multi-quote Monster...quick quick, into VATS!

Sanctjud wrote:OMG< attack of the Multi-quote Monster...quick quick, into VATS!

Even pausing time isn't enough to make sense of that post. I suggest reloading a previous save.

Coldfire: I don't know what happened, but your quote tags are really screwed up.

@coldfire: Like I said, we ahev to decide if we're talking about Raiders as an enemy in a game or as a faction/lifestyle in a fictional setting. In the first instance, "motivation" doesn't come into it--at least no more than it does with radroaches. In the second case, the Raiders have no meaningful motivation as a group or as individuals. Yes they have technical motivations: urge to steal, dope, maim, burn, kill (any of these for any reason, by the way) as well as the urges of any animal: eat, sleep, gak. That's really not what I would consider "motivation" in a story-telling sense.

If I learned anything from FO1 it's that the only good raider is a dead raider rotting in a shallow grave.

i'm impressed actually: it's hypnotic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:@coldfire: Like I said, we ahev to decide if we're talking about Raiders as an enemy in a game or as a faction/lifestyle in a fictional setting. In the first instance, "motivation" doesn't come into it--at least no more than it does with radroaches. In the second case, the Raiders have no meaningful motivation as a group or as individuals. Yes they have technical motivations: urge to steal, dope, maim, burn, kill (any of these for any reason, by the way) as well as the urges of any animal: eat, sleep, gak. That's really not what I would consider "motivation" in a story-telling sense.

They're XP fodder. Which is fine by me.

Sorry about the other post guys, I havnt been here that long and wasnt sure if that was normal, it seemed really odd to me too

Manchu wrote:@coldfire: Like I said, we ahev to decide if we're talking about Raiders as an enemy in a game or as a faction/lifestyle in a fictional setting. In the first instance, "motivation" doesn't come into it--at least no more than it does with radroaches. In the second case, the Raiders have no meaningful motivation as a group or as individuals. Yes they have technical motivations: urge to steal, dope, maim, burn, kill (any of these for any reason, by the way) as well as the urges of any animal: eat, sleep, gak. That's really not what I would consider "motivation" in a story-telling sense.

Look I understand what your saying but this isnt the argument, the question was do Raiders have a motivation, the answer is they do.
If we were talking about their actual relevance or neccesity to the story I would agree with you but even so Raiders are a realistic problem though I do think their main role in the game is an XP booster and an unlimited supply of ammo, food, water, chems and weapons from a game design stance.
As for the story they only enrich the setting just like any ghoul or deathclaw.