Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Carnage43 wrote:
New psychic disciplines scare me as well. The viability of the current codex is entirely based on the biomancy school. Sure, the new disciplines might bring new toys, but they might herald us losing the biomancy school as well.

Honestly, that is a good thing. It's rather off-kilter that an army who is well known for the Shadow in the Warp shutting down the warp and driving psykers mad has one of their best lists revolve around getting 15+ rolls on various psychic tables.

 Carnage43 wrote:
New psychic disciplines scare me as well. The viability of the current codex is entirely based on the biomancy school. Sure, the new disciplines might bring new toys, but they might herald us losing the biomancy school as well.

New disciplines for the new codex scare you because the current codices viability is based on rulebook disciplines?

It's a new book. Things will be different. It's not going to be the 5th edition codex with a hardcover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:
New psychic disciplines scare me as well. The viability of the current codex is entirely based on the biomancy school. Sure, the new disciplines might bring new toys, but they might herald us losing the biomancy school as well.

Honestly, that is a good thing. It's rather off-kilter that an army who is well known for the Shadow in the Warp shutting down the warp and driving psykers mad has one of their best lists revolve around getting 15+ rolls on various psychic tables.

I don't see why. Tyranids have always been rather scarey psykers.

I don't know why you'd expect the races psychic communication to hinder it's own psychic ability.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:
New psychic disciplines scare me as well. The viability of the current codex is entirely based on the biomancy school. Sure, the new disciplines might bring new toys, but they might herald us losing the biomancy school as well.

Honestly, that is a good thing. It's rather off-kilter that an army who is well known for the Shadow in the Warp shutting down the warp and driving psykers mad has one of their best lists revolve around getting 15+ rolls on various psychic tables.

-Loki- wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:
New psychic disciplines scare me as well. The viability of the current codex is entirely based on the biomancy school. Sure, the new disciplines might bring new toys, but they might herald us losing the biomancy school as well.

New disciplines for the new codex scare you because the current codices viability is based on rulebook disciplines?

It's a new book. Things will be different. It's not going to be the 5th edition codex with a hardcover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:
New psychic disciplines scare me as well. The viability of the current codex is entirely based on the biomancy school. Sure, the new disciplines might bring new toys, but they might herald us losing the biomancy school as well.

Honestly, that is a good thing. It's rather off-kilter that an army who is well known for the Shadow in the Warp shutting down the warp and driving psykers mad has one of their best lists revolve around getting 15+ rolls on various psychic tables.

I don't see why. Tyranids have always been rather scarey psykers.

I don't know why you'd expect the races psychic communication to hinder it's own psychic ability.

Very good points. Biomancy is fun and all, but I don't like that the entire army's viability in 6th is based purely on having enough monsters rolling on a BRB table.

Given the way 6th has gone, I fully expect that, even if Tyranids lose access to Biomancy, they will be given enough to MORE than make up for it.

 Zande4 wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
The big bug model is also larger then the FW HIERODULE, just the "body" or "core" alone of the new model is the size of the complete tervigon model.

That size chart is way off with some of those sizes. Espesicially the harridan... The model is supposed to be bigger than the hierophant.

*Sigh* It was a pic I found on the internet to give a reasonable, not actual, size comparison, so folks could kind of visualize the new model coming out...

Here is a pic of the two models for true size comparison. The "Big Bug" coming out 2013/14 will be a tad smaller than the HARRIDAN...

Probably won't lose access to Biomancy. The current trend with psychic powers is to have unique disciplines in the Codex that can be chosen over the rulebook disciplines, like how CSMs get Biomancy, Pyromancy and Telepathy, but also Codex-specific Tzeentch/Nurgle/Slaanesh disciplines. It's possible that a Tyranid unit will get locked into a Codex-specific discipline, like the Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcerer is stuck with the Tzeentch discipline.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Probably won't lose access to Biomancy. The current trend with psychic powers is to have unique disciplines in the Codex that can be chosen over the rulebook disciplines, like how CSMs get Biomancy, Pyromancy and Telepathy, but also Codex-specific Tzeentch/Nurgle/Slaanesh disciplines. It's possible that a Tyranid unit will get locked into a Codex-specific discipline, like the Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcerer is stuck with the Tzeentch discipline.

Thats a very specific situation though, in general no other psycher is limited to one table (although Orks I could see it). We'll likely keep the three we have now and gain one. Maybe 2, but I'm a little doubtful of these rumors.

 Carnage43 wrote:

New psychic disciplines scare me as well. The viability of the current codex is entirely based on the biomancy school. Sure, the new disciplines might bring new toys, but they might herald us losing the biomancy school as well.

Gaining new powers doesn't necessarily mean you lose the disciplines in the book. Chaos and Eldar have added their own disciplines while keeping the same pool of common powers available. The only reason you'd take a Tyranid psychic discipline over a rulebook one would be if the Tyranid one had a better pool of powers, which, let's face it, is a good problem to have

 jifel wrote:

Thats a very specific situation though, in general no other psycher is limited to one table (although Orks I could see it). We'll likely keep the three we have now and gain one. Maybe 2, but I'm a little doubtful of these rumors.

I know, I'm just saying that it's possible for a limitation to occur but on specific examples of units rather than for the whole Codex!

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
The big bug model is also larger then the FW HIERODULE, just the "body" or "core" alone of the new model is the size of the complete tervigon model.

That size chart is way off with some of those sizes. Espesicially the harridan... The model is supposed to be bigger than the hierophant.

*Sigh* It was a pic I found on the internet to give a reasonable, not actual, size comparison, so folks could kind of visualize the new model coming out...

Here is a pic of the two models for true size comparison. The "Big Bug" coming out 2013/14 will be a tad smaller than the HARRIDAN...

Still not convinced on the sizes you're going for. 'Larger than a Tervigon, hunched over' is within the realm of reasonably fitting on the oval base. 'As big as a Heirophant/Harridan' is absolutely not (I'm in the middle of building a Heirophant, I do know how big it is).

You've jumped from 'large than a Tervigon' to 'as big as an Apocalypse unit' on the basis of... nothing. A Trygon is larger (taller) than a Tervigon. It's not as big as a Harridan/Heirophant.

 -Loki- wrote:

Still not convinced on the sizes you're going for. 'Larger than a Tervigon, hunched over' is within the realm of reasonably fitting on the oval base. 'As big as a Heirophant/Harridan' is absolutely not (I'm in the middle of building a Heirophant, I do know how big it is).

You've jumped from 'large than a Tervigon' to 'as big as an Apocalypse unit' on the basis of... nothing. A Trygon is larger (taller) than a Tervigon. It's not as big as a Harridan/Heirophant.

There is nothing to convince you of.

The "big bug" info is now out. It's been seen and discussed.

"...larger than the Tervigon model ....it's on an oval base (size of base not mentioned)....it's hunched over, but wider than the Tervigon..."

Heck, if it is like the FW MALANTHROPE'S tail on base, the body could be huge and the connection point tiny... Look at the huge HARRIDAN on that small base too.... The model could be larger than the base itself....it has been seen and done before...

 -Loki- wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
The big bug model is also larger then the FW HIERODULE, just the "body" or "core" alone of the new model is the size of the complete tervigon model.

That size chart is way off with some of those sizes. Espesicially the harridan... The model is supposed to be bigger than the hierophant.

*Sigh* It was a pic I found on the internet to give a reasonable, not actual, size comparison, so folks could kind of visualize the new model coming out...

Here is a pic of the two models for true size comparison. The "Big Bug" coming out 2013/14 will be a tad smaller than the HARRIDAN...

Still not convinced on the sizes you're going for. 'Larger than a Tervigon, hunched over' is within the realm of reasonably fitting on the oval base. 'As big as a Heirophant/Harridan' is absolutely not (I'm in the middle of building a Heirophant, I do know how big it is).

You've jumped from 'large than a Tervigon' to 'as big as an Apocalypse unit' on the basis of... nothing. A Trygon is larger (taller) than a Tervigon. It's not as big as a Harridan/Heirophant.

Yeah I have the harridan and a hierophant and the difference between them and a tervigon is enormous... "a tad bigger than a tervigon" is a hierodule. "a tad smaller than a harridan" is a hierophant

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Still not convinced on the sizes you're going for. 'Larger than a Tervigon, hunched over' is within the realm of reasonably fitting on the oval base. 'As big as a Heirophant/Harridan' is absolutely not (I'm in the middle of building a Heirophant, I do know how big it is).

You've jumped from 'large than a Tervigon' to 'as big as an Apocalypse unit' on the basis of... nothing. A Trygon is larger (taller) than a Tervigon. It's not as big as a Harridan/Heirophant.

There is nothing to convince you of.

The "big bug" info is now out. It's been seen and discussed.

"...larger than the Tervigon model ....it's on an oval base (size of base not mentioned)....it's hunched over, but wider than the Tervigon..."

Heck, if it is like the FW MALANTHROPE'S tail on base, the body could be huge and the connection point tiny... Look at the huge HARRIDAN on that small base too.... The model could be larger than the base itself....it has been seen and done before...

The Harridan is on a small base because it's a flyer and can overhang massively as long as it remains balanced.

The size difference between the actual Harridan, actual Heirophant and actual Tervigon is enormous. There is simply no way they can get a model as big as either the Heirophant or Harridan on the oval base, again, without it being a flyer like the Harridan, which nothing has suggested this model is.

Again - you're jumping to a conclusion that the rumour doesn't even hint at. It can be bigger than the Tervigon and still fit on the oval base, but not as big as you're suggesting.

It could also just be an alternate that comes from the Harpy kit. Or someone saw a sneak peak of a future Apocalypse kit akin to the Lord of Skulls. Or no one knows anything right now other than the Tyranids are due in November.

I'm leaning on the latter.

What is the source for this new MC info?

 Brother SRM wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:

New psychic disciplines scare me as well. The viability of the current codex is entirely based on the biomancy school. Sure, the new disciplines might bring new toys, but they might herald us losing the biomancy school as well.

Gaining new powers doesn't necessarily mean you lose the disciplines in the book. Chaos and Eldar have added their own disciplines while keeping the same pool of common powers available. The only reason you'd take a Tyranid psychic discipline over a rulebook one would be if the Tyranid one had a better pool of powers, which, let's face it, is a good problem to have

I agree with this logic. But what is almost certainly going to change (as I said previously) is the sheer number of rolls 'nids have. Almost every new codex gives psykers a number of powers equal to their Mastery Level.

Tervigons at the moment can have 3 rolls at mastery 1. That gives you a 50:50 chance of getting iron arm, which is potentially the only power you'd want to cast anyway (maybe endurance as well if you were lucky enough to pull both). I'd expect all those rolls as Mastery 1 to get cut out. Maybe there will be upgrades to make a tervigon Mastery 2 or 3 (like Daemon Princes) but I don't expect it to come cheap.

I'd expect the prevalence of Iron Arm to drop on that basis alone.

 DexKivuli wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:

New psychic disciplines scare me as well. The viability of the current codex is entirely based on the biomancy school. Sure, the new disciplines might bring new toys, but they might herald us losing the biomancy school as well.

Gaining new powers doesn't necessarily mean you lose the disciplines in the book. Chaos and Eldar have added their own disciplines while keeping the same pool of common powers available. The only reason you'd take a Tyranid psychic discipline over a rulebook one would be if the Tyranid one had a better pool of powers, which, let's face it, is a good problem to have

I agree with this logic. But what is almost certainly going to change (as I said previously) is the sheer number of rolls 'nids have. Almost every new codex gives psykers a number of powers equal to their Mastery Level.

Tervigons at the moment can have 3 rolls at mastery 1. That gives you a 50:50 chance of getting iron arm, which is potentially the only power you'd want to cast anyway (maybe endurance as well if you were lucky enough to pull both). I'd expect all those rolls as Mastery 1 to get cut out. Maybe there will be upgrades to make a tervigon Mastery 2 or 3 (like Daemon Princes) but I don't expect it to come cheap.

I'd expect the prevalence of Iron Arm to drop on that basis alone.

I'm thinking this is pretty much spot on. Tervigons will probably be level 1 with 25 point upgrades like Daemon Princes which could get expensive, although they're pretty much paying 20 points now for 2 extra rolls.

New info from bols...

Tyranids will be receiving a large plastic monstrous creature. -the new kit in comparison to the Tyrannofex will have similar size ratios as the Wraithknight to the Wraithlord, $115 usd.

If this rumor is true, the new tyrannid would be the height of that blue eldar on the far right...

Sooo.... what, a tyrannofex crossed with a trygon?

 Micky wrote:
Sooo.... what, a tyrannofex crossed with a trygon?

...A Tyrannogon?

All seems good to me

Looking forward to the Hive Guard model kit, I'm glad I didn't buy the resin models.

The termagant kit sounds aweful - size reduction, no rippers, and an obligatory price increase... by the way, who really wants to paint more of these? Shame GW didn't remake the Warrior box, that one has plenty of missing options.

More than anything, I just want to have viable troop options besides Tervigon/Termagant. Is that too much to ask? Can we propel the rumors in that direction somehow?

Maybe make Hormagaunts T4 and 4+ or something...

I'm wondering if SitW is going to be nerfed as well
everything sounds good but a lot of this sounds a bit too good to be true

 Hive Fleet Lazarus wrote:
I'm wondering if SitW is going to be nerfed as well
everything sounds good but a lot of this sounds a bit too good to be true

It'll probably get turned into an area-effect DtW buff

Huh, I found a tyrannid rumour thred here on dakka started in June....

"...new tyranid model that is on the scale of a wraithknight compared to a wraithlord... The Tyrannofex/Tervigon is not the tallest model but when you take into account all three dimensions, it is pretty big. Probably bigger than the Riptide is in total inches cubed."

Seems this has been kinda known and spoken of already.....

Most rumors are repeats. That's kind of how it goes. Easy way to make yourself look good is to 'confirm' someone else's.

I heard a while back that they were coinciding both the fantasy, and The Hobbit releases in December, leaving September, October and November free for 2 40K and 1 big box release, but the main 40k army rumours were SM and Orks, looks like if the Nids rumours are true, looks like i'm gonna have to wait longer for the Orks update :(

It's cool to see that Nid's will get the slot changes to help with no allies. I have my fingers crossed for a geanstealer cult army supplement. Dust off the old Magus and Brood brothers. But I don't think it will happen.

MadmanMSU wrote:More than anything, I just want to have viable troop options besides Tervigon/Termagant. Is that too much to ask? Can we propel the rumors in that direction somehow?

Maybe make Hormagaunts T4 and 4+ or something...

There's absolutely nothing that justifies Hormagaunts being T4. Nothing. They are nowhere near as tough as a Space Marine or Necron Warrior. Same with the armor save.

The stat-line for a Hormagaunt is fine. The base points cost is even fine. In order to make them useful, you HAVE to buy Toxin Sacs and/or Adrenal Glands, and suddenly they are too expensive. Also, no assault after a Run move means they are really no faster. The idea that they are fast is pretty much an illusion. Maybe an inch or two more because of the reroll they get from Fleet, but in the shooter-dominated 6th edition, they just don't get there fast enough.

Like Eldar received the ability to hop in, shoot, and hop out again, I wouldn't be surprised if Tyranids got something that lets many of them assault after running. That's really the only change that makes Tyranids viable without breaking them. Hormagaunts and Raveners are the epitome of everything most people assume Tyranids should be, but those are arguably some of their least effective units. They just die too quickly, and not enough of them are left by the time they finally reach combat.

Raising their Toughness or Save just doesn't make sense, so expect a means to getting into combat a little quicker.

Indeed, I want my old fleet back.