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 Big Blind Bill wrote:


ii) From a rules perspective it is because their codex is so good. Now I don't mean overpowered here. I mean very capable.

The tau codex has the capability to take on almost any threat. They have some of the best skyfire and interceptor choices of 6th ed so far, they have massed infantry firepower, maneuverable battlesuits, a new tough to kill mc and some fairly decent tanks.
Back these things up with the likes of buffmander, markerlights and ethereals and you have a book which has few natural weaknesses.
Also, most the stuff is well priced.
.

So its like , I hate tau because they got a normal good codex like eldar and other factions got bad writen or old codex . Which would explain why eldar or demon players are not offten seen as hating on the tau .

 LordofHats wrote:
Least original in a universe that's essentially Lord of the Rings in Space? Wow. I can't think of a worse thing to be.

And the Tau don't need to be a parody of Communist China. They are communist China (in space).

The Tau aren't anything like Communist China. They're heavily based off Imperial Japan before and during WWII.

Tau don't fit as they have a load of stupid rules that let them defy convention where everyone else is stuck that they don't deserve, on top of an already incredibly powerful playstyle that lets them win with minimal casualties. Their greatest weakness is objectives, but usually they can just wipe the other player off them anyway. The fact they suck in CC has no bearing, because noone will get into CC against a competent Tau player unless he's making an offensive push and you've got something uniquely fast like Bikes.

Vetock, the idiot that he is, decided that one of their only weaknesses was best made even less concerning by giving Tau supporting fire. Ugh.

Some units are just absurdly overpowered; namely Riptides/HYMP Broadsides/Buffmanders in certain capacities. They're stupid, easy choices that get things other armies would die for, for almost nothing.

Case in point, Riptides get interceptor and S8 AP2 pie plates with infinite range for 5 pts each. This is on a model that is a straight defensive upgrade (in fact, significant) over a Terminator squad, and yet even with both of those upgrades its 10 points cheaper. That with 5-6 times the defensive ability of a Leman Russ, or indeed most vehicles, costs barely more or in some cases less? Despite the fact that it gets a ton of gimmicks and AP2 pie plates? Really?

HYMP- easy S7 spam, basically auto-kills most flyers on entry with another ridiculously cheap interceptor upgrade. Buffmanders essentially double the stupidity of both of these units.

So, Codex weaknesses?

IG
-Infantry can't easily pull their weight outside of Mech Vets
-Outside of Mech, lack of mobility
-Considerably hard to kill MC's

SM Dexes
-Expensive to create MC killers that are usually one shot wonders
-Low model count with defensive bonuses that are worthless in some match ups
-Lackluster anti-infantry outside of the Thunderfire

Orks
Lack of AP2
Lack of mobility (Trukks aren't viable, Battlewagons require dedicating to it)
Reliance on Power Klaws

Dark Eldar
-Prepare to lose often if you never get the first turn
-Alpha strike needs to cripple or you die
-Difficulty with AA

Then, say Tau?
Uh, has to pry objectives from the cold corpses of your opponent's troops?
Becomes slightly less broken without marker lights?

The only wrong thing I find about the Tau is that they are in fact xenos when it would have been so much cooler if they were humans who had walked off the emperor's path (in a completely different way than regular heretics). Hated by both the Imperium of Man, because of their heretical "greater good" agendas and by the Mechanicum because of their obvious knack for technology.

To instead make them into boring xenos that look like they stepped out of an X-files episode (but with combat gear) was what broke them imo.

 LordofHats wrote:
Older Tau players would point out Kroot have always been a sort of shooting unit. Even before they lost 1strength they were a terriple cc unit, with the same bs as firewarriors with a much lower points cost and the ability to come in a muc larger unit. Being able to perform as a big tarpit doesn't exclude them from being used as shooting units when they're not blocking someone's charge.

Oh yeah, they've always been better at shooting. I just find it annoying because it always seemed to me like GW focused more on their close combat prowess in the background, but then they nerf the crap out of what little assault-oriented stats/rules they did have and give them sniper rounds for...some reason. They were never good at assault even with the extra S and attacks, so why take that away?

Martel732 wrote:
"And my brother's Blood Angel army has a winning record against my Tau. He also won our first and only game in 6th edition using his CSM, against my new codex (no riptides or heldrakes).

Therefore Tau are actually terrible. "

You're doing something wrong, then. I've army swapped with Tau, and BA are an easy, easy out. Although, for honest disclosure, I've won every army swap with BA. And all but one with C:SM. Marines are very vulnerable this edition.

5th edition Blood Angels with 5th edition Tau, if that makes any difference. The only 6th army I've played against was CSM and only the one time, because I just can't stand it anymore, playing 40k is a chore and I feel like I could be doing better things with my time now.

Like ranting on forums.

BaalSNAFU wrote:
If you can't see the difference in how 6thed markerlights negatively impact the game as opposed to non-open topped landspeeders and ATSKNF, the, single most overrated army trait in the game, then the problem is with your perception, not mine.

How would you change markerlights then, without removing them entirely? Because I personally kinda like the idea of markerlights, and on that note I also like the concept of the "buffmander" because I really like the idea of units buffing other units. It makes sense and fits in with the army.

I think it's too easy to diminish cover saves entirely with them, but other than that I don't see much wrong. And for a long time most other people didn't, either. Nothing much has really changed about them other than the new rules for removing cover, so I would assume that's probably the unbalancing factor, and that markerlights would be fine if it went back to the old way of doing things where you removed one counter for -1 save. The main reason the buffmander is so hated, from what I can tell, is because he can join riptides and Eldar units, both of which could be fixed by not allowing IC's to join MC's and getting rid of allies.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Phanixis wrote:
That is to say, in addition to your standard GW power creep, the Tau were altered to use gunline units and tactics in place of their much more interesting maneuver warfare tactics. Had Tau been built around mobility, close range shooting and given superior reserves manipulation, the army would be more interesting to play against if nothing else, which would reduce a lot of the animosity towards it.

I don't think it'd reduce the animosity at all. You play mobile, people complain about JSJ being BS. You play gunline and people complain that you brought too much dakka. It's not something you can win.

That's a good point, too. People have been bitching about crisis suit JSJ ever since the army was introduced (even though Eldar did it first and better, but it's generally accepted because "Eldar are supposed to be tricky!" or some bs and you certainly never see people arguing about how Eldar should be Squatted for it), and the only reason it seems to have kinda died off now is because the riptide happened and now they have something worse to complain about.

So yeah, I guess if you did get rid of the riptide people would just go back to bitching about crisis suits again until they got rid of them. And then stealth suits. And then broadsides. And then literally every other unit in the codex one by one until there was nothing left, because Tau just aren't allowed to be.

 DarthSpader wrote:
and it definitely won't make someone put away hundreds or even thousands of dollars in minis just because they are the hated martyr of the season.

Well, I wouldn't say that. I don't know if I can say that I've ever really put them away, but I have been greatly discouraged from doing damn near anything with them for long periods of time because I found all the online negativity and hate directed towards them a bit overwhelming. My army is still unpainted to this day and by this point I have about another army's worth of Tau models just sitting in boxes or on sprues that I just can't bring myself to do anything with, and it just so happened to coincide with Tau showing back up on everyone's radar and causing unprecedented rage in people. The only other time my enthusiasm for something got crushed so quickly and easily was the recent Tyranid release, where literally after taking the book home and flipping through it I lost all desire to start a Tyranid army...again.

It's possible that I'm just too fething sensitive, I dunno, but I didn't get into this crap because I wanted to put up with drama and bs over my choice of faction. Life is stressful enough as it is and I don't need my hobbies adding to that.

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Hive Tyrant is a better design than Giger Alien imo

You shut your fething mouth!

Joking...kinda.

WhiteDog wrote:
Seriously, I can't even understand the Riptide's design and people who are always defending such units are either hypocrites or just never played anything outside Tau.

I don't understand the design, either...the model, I mean. It looks so bad.

As for the rules, that can be explained with either a) it's an $85 model, or b) Games Workshop is stupid. We all want to say it was the former, but realistically it was most likely the latter, since there's no real obvious pattern of GW making the new kits overpowered. The entire Tyranid release is proof enough of that, $70 and $80 kits left and right and not a single one is worth a damn.

It might even be a little of both. I like to think that GW accidentally made the riptide good, and then with the Farsight supplement and firebase support cadre decided to take advantage of that while they could and push people to field more and more of them.

 Sidstyler wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Hive Tyrant is a better design than Giger Alien imo

You shut your fething mouth!

Joking...kinda.

Well it's all about taste, some people like big vicious alien commanders and others like hordes of big black dicks on legs

Makumba wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:


ii) From a rules perspective it is because their codex is so good. Now I don't mean overpowered here. I mean very capable.

The tau codex has the capability to take on almost any threat. They have some of the best skyfire and interceptor choices of 6th ed so far, they have massed infantry firepower, maneuverable battlesuits, a new tough to kill mc and some fairly decent tanks.
Back these things up with the likes of buffmander, markerlights and ethereals and you have a book which has few natural weaknesses.
Also, most the stuff is well priced.
.

So its like , I hate tau because they got a normal good codex like eldar and other factions got bad writen or old codex . Which would explain why eldar or demon players are not offten seen as hating on the tau .

Hey, I hate the tau just like the next man...but I run mono nurgle.