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 A GumyBear wrote:
Personally I hate tau because of how boring they are to play, nobody likes getting shot to pieces from a distance by a tau castle that only really uses its shooting phase and nothing else.

Then don't take that list. This is a problem that is well within your hands to fix.

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Could you elaborate? No offense but that's a bit outlandish imo, leave the little characterless fish guys and get rid of huge scary murderous bug dinosaur aliens? I with all my disgust for Tau fluff don't want to see them go only a bit more into open genocide and pure evil, why would you just remove a grimdark race that was there almost from the beggining?

Easy. The Tau are not nice people, despite having the outward appearance of it. When non-Tau join the Empire, they are second-class citizens. If they criticize this arrangement, they disappear into what amounts to "re-education camps". The Vespid might be mind-controlled by those helmets. There is a very dystopian vibe to the Tau Empire, like a grimdark parody of Communist China under Chairman Mao.

The Tyranids have no such vibe, and something like them can be found in nearly every sci-fi setting. They are, perhaps, one of the least-original aspects of 40K.

Least original in a universe that's essentially Lord of the Rings in Space? Wow. I can't think of a worse thing to be.

And the Tau don't need to be a parody of Communist China. They are communist China (in space).

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 LiveForTheSwarm wrote:
No lol. Tau do have disadvantages, it's just people are too focused on the fact they should just die in assault and that's the only way.

Most Tau models are T3, with a 4+ or a 5+. They are also mostly BS3. I can't stress enough to take out markerlights... It's that easy. My best friend mains Tau and I main Nids, I win more than my fair share of games against him... Especially with the new Nids dex.

Also, they are never going to just "delete" an entire faction lol If you want to take about overpowered broken garbage, then delete Daemons? At least I can kill Tau models. Having this 2++ rerollable death star in my deployment or closing in on it isn't something to be desired.

JY2 nearly beat (and should've) a nasty TauDar list with the widely assumed "terrible new Nids Dex", because he's a smart tactician. This game is just more then a point and click game, PLAY YOUR ARMY! Don't rely on it playing itself, you'll have a lot more fun and success.

Daemons aren't OP... Also, if you wanna deal with the deathstar, then kill the guy with the grimoire it's that simple... Same way you take out markerlights.

It isn't that simple actually. That requires you focusing out the single target who still has a re-rollable 4++ invuln save. Also he's an IC meaning he is getting a 2+ lookout sir. There's also the scary Flying Circus. Personally I don't think it's broken but it is pretty devestating against many. I do agree that daemons aren't op as much as a single build is.

Thought I should check in.

I made a mistake in my original post about honour. I didn't mean honour I meant personal glory I.e. The seemingly honourable way to fight 1 on 1 and the such... So I did indeed phrase it badly.

Again I was merely trying to point out the race doesn't seem to fit the game more than anything else. I love tau and don't want to see then go or anything I was merely trying to find a 'greater good' for the game.

I think the past number of threads and responses therein is a pretty good indication of feelings towards Tau.

Again I think Tau might be a large contributing factor to why 6th isn't working.
I don't think the rules help but Tau have so many rule breaking things it makes the game lose 'shape' from it's intended one.

 StarTrotter wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 LiveForTheSwarm wrote:
No lol. Tau do have disadvantages, it's just people are too focused on the fact they should just die in assault and that's the only way.

Most Tau models are T3, with a 4+ or a 5+. They are also mostly BS3. I can't stress enough to take out markerlights... It's that easy. My best friend mains Tau and I main Nids, I win more than my fair share of games against him... Especially with the new Nids dex.

Also, they are never going to just "delete" an entire faction lol If you want to take about overpowered broken garbage, then delete Daemons? At least I can kill Tau models. Having this 2++ rerollable death star in my deployment or closing in on it isn't something to be desired.

JY2 nearly beat (and should've) a nasty TauDar list with the widely assumed "terrible new Nids Dex", because he's a smart tactician. This game is just more then a point and click game, PLAY YOUR ARMY! Don't rely on it playing itself, you'll have a lot more fun and success.

Daemons aren't OP... Also, if you wanna deal with the deathstar, then kill the guy with the grimoire it's that simple... Same way you take out markerlights.

It isn't that simple actually. That requires you focusing out the single target who still has a re-rollable 4++ invuln save. Also he's an IC meaning he is getting a 2+ lookout sir. There's also the scary Flying Circus. Personally I don't think it's broken but it is pretty devestating against many. I do agree that daemons aren't op as much as a single build is.

When done right the guy with the Grimoire is in the Screamerstar, so you have to get through the Deathstar to get to him...

 Psienesis wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Could you elaborate? No offense but that's a bit outlandish imo, leave the little characterless fish guys and get rid of huge scary murderous bug dinosaur aliens? I with all my disgust for Tau fluff don't want to see them go only a bit more into open genocide and pure evil, why would you just remove a grimdark race that was there almost from the beggining?

Easy. The Tau are not nice people, despite having the outward appearance of it. When non-Tau join the Empire, they are second-class citizens. If they criticize this arrangement, they disappear into what amounts to "re-education camps". The Vespid might be mind-controlled by those helmets. There is a very dystopian vibe to the Tau Empire, like a grimdark parody of Communist China under Chairman Mao.

Yes I know the subtle nods to totalitarian regime. Subtle is not enough! Tentacles in your mouth, droping nuclear bombs on civilians, torture, slaughter, skulls. Leave subtleties to Mass Effect or sth.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Tyranids have no such vibe, and something like them can be found in nearly every sci-fi setting. They are, perhaps, one of the least-original aspects of 40K.

There is not a single original thing in 40k. It's a one big ripoff briliantly twisted to grimdark, that was always its charm. Read Nemesis the Warlock comic, you will find everything - emperor of the xenophobic empire and his terminators divided into chapters launching a space crusade against aliens, khaos daemon fighting them, Imperial one liners, type of ornaments that you have in codieces now, space maps style etc. If you take a few pictures from various 2000AD comics like ABC warriors or Judge Dredd you can complete the whole Space Marine armour, every part of it is somewhere there. Bolter is just a variation of Dredd's gun, Drop pods came from Rogue Trooper, Nurgle is directly taken from Moorcock book (one of the icarnations of chaos god, that was in the first of Corum books) as is most of Chaos, Necrons from Terminator, Tyranids from Aliens, Tau from some manga/ anime I don't remember a name of, fishmen from Heinlein? (not sure here), Dark Eldar design is mainly Hellraiser, Orks and Eldar well that's obvious, Goblins design again direct from Nemesis the Warlock, early guard designs from Aliens, late guard from Starship troopers (movie) etc. Add bits from Dune, 100 little "homages" like Marbo, twist to grimdark and there you go. You want to remove unoriginal bits from 40k, you may be left with a coffin type Dreadnought (which I guess is there somewhere and I just missed it), Jokaero (if that's not a monkey from Pratchet) and some Vostroyans maybe.

That was not a valid point, imo.

I'm well aware of that... but if you were going to remove either the Tyranid or the Tau, based on which matched the "dystopia" vibe better, then the Tyranid gotta go.

 Psienesis wrote:
I'm well aware of that... but if you were going to remove either the Tyranid or the Tau, based on which matched the "dystopia" vibe better, then the Tyranid gotta go.

I'm not sure. Tyranids may not be dystopian but Imperium that can be eaten by Tyranids any moment is. Remove the Tyranids you remove one horrible way to die from the pool.

 LordofHats wrote:
And the Tau don't need to be a parody of Communist China. They are communist China (in space).

Not entirely. Rigid caste system isn't exactly a communist idea. If anything I always saw them as what would have happened if old school India went fascist. Although to be completely fair both fascism and communism pretty much end up in the same place if you take them far enough, so that division isn't too important.

Any way, I can see why people don't like Tau. I play them because I personally love their models, fluff, and I also like shooting lots of really big guns. Sometimes I get the "Tau guilt" after I stomp my opponent particularly badly. Even if it's more luck than skill (I seem to pull out the fire dice when it counts more often than I should).

Both space marines and the *idea* of tyranids came from the "Starship Troopers" novel. Since that time, much has been stolen from the "Alien" mythos as well as other sources.

 LordofHats wrote:

scottagain wrote:
Tau have stupidity in spades! Read the Dark Eldar codex, where the DE get the Tau to agree to a Cultural exchange that results in an army of tau-based grotesques.

Tau have grimdark too. Has no one seen the section of the mind control worms? Or how diplomacy with the Vespid was faltering until the Tau gave them mind control "Communication" helmets?

It's a different take on grimdark than the Imperium, but then, so are half the armies in the game! It just feels out of place because the Imperium is shoved down your throat so much it seems that is the only way.

I'd go with this honestly. The Tau aren't good guys. If anything, they're the most insidious bastards in the entire franchise. THey look all nice and sophisticated but its just a facade built over a dark ugly reality. I just kind of wish this angle was harped more in the fluff. It gets mentioned like, one time in the old codex and like, three times in the new one and never with any certainty its always 'maybe.' The Tau fluff should better emphasis their false utopia than it currently does.

Yes I agree, it's just too subtle now. If it wasn't for designer notes or sth where they stated Tau are indeed a good race and a contrast to others then maybe I wouldn't require such a clarification but atm it's not enough for solid grimdark or grimdarkish joke, imo.

More about mind control and better look of the race, that's what they need. You can make small and skinny grey guys look grim if you want to:

http://s.pro-gmedia.com/videogamer/media/images/xbox360/xcom_enemy_unknown/screens/xcom_enemy_unknown_17.jpg

I agree with Peregrine.

Exactly what are the faults of the Tau as being a mechanically "broken" army if you completely remove the Riptide as an option?

The Riptide was made to be overpowered to make sure-sales of the new giant $80 kit. Especially in multiples.

Hell, assault-wise, at least now they don't have units of 20 Kroot rolling 60+ hth dice on the charge.

The tau faction fluff is perfectly dystopian. They just aren't rolling in skulls, which is what most 40K fans think such a thing needs to be legitimate.

I like the Tau and their background

Shame GW screwed up the balance and made OP units and Ally synergy :(

I don't hate tau, i'm happy to see them doing well. I don't get upset if one codex or another is at the top, i think they should all get their turn. I'm glad we have all the fluff we do to read from.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Exactly what are the faults of the Tau as being a mechanically "broken" army if you completely remove the Riptide as an option?
.

The problem is not with the Riptides. They are just undercosted by 40-60 points (and the Ion Accelerator is also undercosted by ~20 points). The problem is with stuff like Buffmanders and the over-the-top effectiveness of Markerlight support. Kill Buffmanders (by restricting Signature Systems to 1/model) and nerf markerlights (like 1 ML token/-1 cover save to a minimum of 6+ so no 2 ML token=ignore cover completely) and the Tau will be cool.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Exactly what are the faults of the Tau as being a mechanically "broken" army if you completely remove the Riptide as an option?
.

The problem is not with the Riptides. They are just undercosted by 40-60 points (and the Ion Accelerator is also undercosted by ~20 points). The problem is with stuff like Buffmanders and the over-the-top effectiveness of Markerlight support. Kill Buffmanders (by restricting Signature Systems to 1/model) and nerf markerlights (like 1 ML token/-1 cover save to a minimum of 6+ so no 2 ML token=ignore cover completely) and the Tau will be cool.

I can agree with this, the riptide isnt the hardest thing to deal with for me. Its the 2+ cover save from going to ground behind a defense line and then pulling off marker lights to bring ballistic skill up to normal again. It's hard to deal with unless you are bringing barrage specifically to deal with someone whos going to camp behind a defense line.

If you know you are playing against Tau which, from the sounds of things, are all but guaranteed to be doing that, why not bring a bunch of artillery barrage pie-plates to paste his fish-people across the field?

This is another thing that bugs me... Tau did not evolve from fish. They have hooves, for the Throne's sake! They're plains-dwelling omnivores! Where does the fish thing come from?

 Psienesis wrote:
If you know you are playing against Tau which, from the sounds of things, are all but guaranteed to be doing that, why not bring a bunch of artillery barrage pie-plates to paste his fish-people across the field?

This is another thing that bugs me... Tau did not evolve from fish. They have hooves, for the Throne's sake! They're plains-dwelling omnivores! Where does the fish thing come from?

I'm going to start bringing some barrage with my nids which equals to biovores mostly, maybe a crone, or harpy, i forget which does the spore mines. I held off forever because im not a fan of biovores. On the upside with the changes to hive guard i can ignore his cover save. The only down side is i don't think it will work very well. Getting across the board so i can get in range to return fire may be difficult, tyranids just don't have the range to compete, but maybe the number of threats will make up for that.

And no, tau evolved from fish. Simply because i like saying "sushi" every time i'm against tau.

Lots of people didn't like Tau before the latest codex, because they seem to be glaringly different from the other factions, and part of an obvious attempt to gain entry to the emerging markets in SE Asia [which seemingly every company was doing at the time].

Personally Tau are a non-entity to me as no-one I know plays them, or wants to play them. Also they get very little love from Black Library, so overall are easy to ignore.

Well legitimately, people also harped on the Tau's not even disguised whatsoever plot armor and I can agree with that. The Tau especially in the last Dex's fluff had very blatant "we're a playable faction we can't die" plot armor that defied internal logic.

Now we know the Imperium didn't crush them because everyone got shot dead

Yes I know the subtle nods to totalitarian regime. Subtle is not enough! Tentacles in your mouth, droping nuclear bombs on civilians, torture, slaughter, skulls. Leave subtleties to Mass Effect or sth.

Why does everybody have to be so obviously evil? Doesn't the 40k setting have a place for an evil race who is smart enough to not openly advertise they are evil? We already have plenty of races that walk around covered with skulls and carrying pikes with disembodied heads, including Chaos, Dark Eldar, and Orks. Having a race that does not engage in this practice is a refreshing change of pace. The Tau are still evil. They may exercise patience and use diplomacy, but at the end of the day only one of two things happens to anybody the Tau encounter: they either get conquered, or annihilated.

One of the neat things about the Tau is the models aesthetics match the races approach to conquest and warfare. The models are clean and don't carry any sort of skull motif or trophies, but are nevertheless present for one purpose: to kill. Everything about the Tau is practical, they do what they do for power and they will destroy anybody who gets in their way. As another poster mentioned, this is actually a rather potent and insidious form of evil. If you don't appreciate how nasty somebody with the Tau's approach to evil, I suggest you read 1984. Trust me, this kind of evil is not halfhearted.

Phanixis wrote:

Yes I know the subtle nods to totalitarian regime. Subtle is not enough! Tentacles in your mouth, droping nuclear bombs on civilians, torture, slaughter, skulls. Leave subtleties to Mass Effect or sth.

Why does everybody have to be so obviously evil? Doesn't the 40k setting have a place for an evil race who is smart enough to not openly advertise they are evil? We already have plenty of races that walk around covered with skulls and carrying pikes with disembodied heads, including Chaos, Dark Eldar, and Orks. Having a race that does not engage in this practice is a refreshing change of pace. The Tau are still evil. They may exercise patience and use diplomacy, but at the end of the day only one of two things happens to anybody the Tau encounter: they either get conquered, or annihilated.

One of the neat things about the Tau is the models aesthetics match the races approach to conquest and warfare. The models are clean and don't carry any sort of skull motif or trophies, but are nevertheless present for one purpose: to kill. Everything about the Tau is practical, they do what they do for power and they will destroy anybody who gets in their way. As another poster mentioned, this is actually a rather potent and insidious form of evil. If you don't appreciate how nasty somebody with the Tau's approach to evil, I suggest you read 1984. Trust me, this kind of evil is not halfhearted.

I read 1984, think it is over - advertised imo but that's a different topic. I also lived under communist government for a bit and it's all still lively around here. It's not that I don't like subtlety, I just don't see the need for it in 40k. All I need from fluff and art is provide me a mood for battle, I love the background visualy but I think it is rather silly and does not need a high literature kind of depth, that only makes the silly parts stand out more. I appreciate the in your face crazy rotten armies or mumbling killer fanatics of 40k and think Tau would only benefit from proper grimdark treament. If you look at my post it was intentionaly over the top and I didn't literaly mean skulls on Riptides but rather some darker designs and art instead of that sunny pictures and obvious malice instead of all those puny negotiating and propaganda to cover their little enslavement plan (if there really is a plan). It doesn't suit 40k, imo.

Imagine an army of disturbingly sculpted 40k ish grey aliens riding their high tech suits, taking control over your models, turning your units against each other, throwing them around with telekinesis etc. Just one idea that I'd prefer over what they are now.

btw I like some models now, broadsides, firewarriors I just don't like the faces of Tau and Kroot, the former look bland and and remind me of admiral Ackbar (and I hate Star Wars) after a few punches and the latter look like something out of Warcraft also both are characterless races look wise. For me ofc.

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Tau taint the hopelessness of 40k with their naive good, not to mention the everything grimdark grimdarkness was a joke in itself, well not anymore. They spoil the mood for me and I really hope Mat Ward will grab them at some point and make a story of Crisis suits kicking pregnant mothers and building bipods for rail guns out of skulls.

The problem here isn't the Tau, it's that you don't know the difference between "grimdark" and "parody of grimdark". The Tau are incredibly grimdark. Think about it this way: in any other scifi setting the Tau would be the generic "expansionist evil empire", but in 40k they are the shining embodiment of hope and decency. Why? Because they're pragmatic enough to offer you a chance to surrender and accept a position of slavery before they kill you, while everyone else just kills everything that moves regardless of how much of a waste it is. Once you stop and think about the Tau ideology you immediately realize that "the greater good" is nothing more than propaganda in the glorious tradition of "manifest destiny" (complete with genociding anyone that stands in the way of progress), the US delivering "freedom" at gunpoint to anyone who happens to have some oil that we want, etc. The galaxy will be ruled by the Tau, and everyone else will submit or die. And, again, this is the best possible fate for you in 40k.

And no, covering the Tau in skulls and the blood of slaughtered innocents wouldn't make them more grimdark, it would just make them stupid and annoying. It's the kind of superficial nonsense that appeals only to young kids who don't have the patience for anything more subtle.

I think Tau aren't liked because they are a young race that popped up out of nowhere and said "We're the greatest, even though everybody else has been around for tens of thousands of years longer than we have!" This attitude is considered among haters to make Tau unworthy of victory in any form.
This is why when they used to lose all the time, the haters would smirk and say, "Of course they lost. They're just Tau. Gotta teach them their place in the universe..."

When the new Codex came out painting the Tau as some of the most innovative geniuses in the galaxy/truly psychologically disturbing rather than over-the-top corrupt like everyone else/just plain badass, these haters became even more irate. Not because the Tau got a new Codex, but because now the Tau were going to start winning games, and in their little brains they still insist that in lieu of Tau arrogance, they don't DESERVE to win games on the table top. They're supposed to THINK they're superior while being shown that they're inferior. The fact that they now have the military might to justify their condescension just rubs salt on the wound.

Sadly, this attitude makes these haters, who once mocked the Tau for their "inferior military", look petulant and childish for hating the fact that the Tau can now stand firm against any threat while truculently wrecking armies that get in their way.


If there's an army who's absence would balance the game, I'd have to say it's space marines (including Chaos ones). Every army has guns that SHOULD be deadly, and would be if so many people didn't play an army who's infantry almost always gets a 3+ save. It just makes all the shooting feel so trite and unremarkable.
Imagine a game where making armor saves is lucky rather than expected. Cover and mobility tactics would become more vital. More risk would mean even brief shooting exchanges would be more exciting and would leave the targets more crippled. We'd see fewer armies loading up on weapons that SHOULD be overkill versus infantry (but sadly aren't)
Having space marines around has made the game too over-the-top.
Won't happen of course. But I think the game would have been better if SMs had never been included... And it would have made the IG that much more admirable.

Has nothing to do with inferior vs superior. I've been following 40k i n and off since 3rd, but only began playing at the beginning of 6th (I know, I know, I feel like an ass who missed out on the glory days). Having not been privvy to the Tau "complex" or whateveryou want to call it, I will tell you with relative objectivity (to aforementioned complex)that most of us hate Tau because the book is gorgonzola, the army is boring/dreadful to play against, the models are an obvious pander to the anime crowd and in a laid back enviornment the Tau player is usually TFG. A very, very, very distant last is the fluff. IMO the fluff is decent enough. Its not like new necrons bad or anything. I'm pretty certain a superioriry complex/sense of entitlement doesn't even show up on the "feth Tau-oscale"

 Peregrine wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Tau taint the hopelessness of 40k with their naive good, not to mention the everything grimdark grimdarkness was a joke in itself, well not anymore. They spoil the mood for me and I really hope Mat Ward will grab them at some point and make a story of Crisis suits kicking pregnant mothers and building bipods for rail guns out of skulls.

The problem here isn't the Tau, it's that you don't know the difference between "grimdark" and "parody of grimdark".

Apprently you don't get how something can be both.

 Peregrine wrote:
The Tau are incredibly grimdark. Think about it this way: in any other scifi setting the Tau would be the generic "expansionist evil empire", but in 40k they are the shining embodiment of hope and decency. Why? Because they're pragmatic enough to offer you a chance to surrender and accept a position of slavery before they kill you, while everyone else just kills everything that moves regardless of how much of a waste it is. Once you stop and think about the Tau ideology you immediately realize that "the greater good" is nothing more than propaganda in the glorious tradition of "manifest destiny" (complete with genociding anyone that stands in the way of progress), the US delivering "freedom" at gunpoint to anyone who happens to have some oil that we want, etc. The galaxy will be ruled by the Tau, and everyone else will submit or die. And, again, this is the best possible fate for you in 40k.

Too subtle, can't comprehend. But really I understand the idea behind Tau grimdarkness I just prefer 40k grim to the walls. Necrons marching
ancient silent black death instead of pirates of Caribbean in space, Space Marines psychopaths instead of epic heroes, Chaos vicious madmen instead of nuanced anarchist like everywhere else, the clash of factions so absurdly evil that you laugh reading it but still revel in the grim and dark mood.

The Tau thing is a good joke btw, just not good enough imo.

 Peregrine wrote:
And no, covering the Tau in skulls and the blood of slaughtered innocents wouldn't make them more grimdark, it would just make them stupid and annoying. It's the kind of superficial nonsense that appeals only to young kids who don't have the patience for anything more subtle.

Plumbumbarum wrote:If you look at my post it was intentionaly over the top and I didn't literaly mean skulls on Riptides but rather some darker designs and art instead of that sunny pictures and obvious malice instead of all those puny negotiating and propaganda to cover their little enslavement plan (if there really is a plan). It doesn't suit 40k, imo.

...though seeing Tau subtlety crowd getting fluffraped by Ward could be hilarious.

Superficial nonsense, well that's 40k in a nutshell. Again, the more subtle and serious the stories, the more apparent the inherent nonsense gets. There's a reason 40k does not pick up topics like love, social or political nuances, economy, gay rights etc, it's a background for a wargame and there is ONLY WAR and shooting black holes at the other guy. Majority of sf/ fantasy nowadays goes for subtle/ important/ meaningful, why can't this one be left ridiculous and senseless. That's obviously my understanding of 40k though, feel free to have yours.

btw what was it with light years long base full of Necrons? Subtle.

btw 2 only kids, good point.

Plumbumbarum wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Tau taint the hopelessness of 40k with their naive good, not to mention the everything grimdark grimdarkness was a joke in itself, well not anymore. They spoil the mood for me and I really hope Mat Ward will grab them at some point and make a story of Crisis suits kicking pregnant mothers and building bipods for rail guns out of skulls.

The problem here isn't the Tau, it's that you don't know the difference between "grimdark" and "parody of grimdark".

Apprently you don't get how something can be both.

 Peregrine wrote:
The Tau are incredibly grimdark. Think about it this way: in any other scifi setting the Tau would be the generic "expansionist evil empire", but in 40k they are the shining embodiment of hope and decency. Why? Because they're pragmatic enough to offer you a chance to surrender and accept a position of slavery before they kill you, while everyone else just kills everything that moves regardless of how much of a waste it is. Once you stop and think about the Tau ideology you immediately realize that "the greater good" is nothing more than propaganda in the glorious tradition of "manifest destiny" (complete with genociding anyone that stands in the way of progress), the US delivering "freedom" at gunpoint to anyone who happens to have some oil that we want, etc. The galaxy will be ruled by the Tau, and everyone else will submit or die. And, again, this is the best possible fate for you in 40k.

Too subtle, can't comprehend. But really I understand the idea behind Tau grimdarkness I just prefer 40k grim to the walls. Necrons marching
ancient silent black death instead of pirates of Caribbean in space, Space Marines psychopaths instead of epic heroes, Chaos vicious madmen instead of nuanced anarchist like everywhere else, the clash of factions so absurdly evil that you laugh reading it but still revel in the grim and dark mood.

The Tau thing is a good joke btw, just not good enough imo.

 Peregrine wrote:
And no, covering the Tau in skulls and the blood of slaughtered innocents wouldn't make them more grimdark, it would just make them stupid and annoying. It's the kind of superficial nonsense that appeals only to young kids who don't have the patience for anything more subtle.

Plumbumbarum wrote:If you look at my post it was intentionaly over the top and I didn't literaly mean skulls on Riptides but rather some darker designs and art instead of that sunny pictures and obvious malice instead of all those puny negotiating and propaganda to cover their little enslavement plan (if there really is a plan). It doesn't suit 40k, imo.

...though seeing Tau subtlety crowd getting fluffraped by Ward could be hilarious.

Superficial nonsense, well that's 40k in a nutshell. Again, the more subtle and serious the stories, the more apparent the inherent nonsense gets. There's a reason 40k does not pick up topics like love, social or political nuances, economy, gay rights etc, it's a background for a wargame and there is ONLY WAR and shooting black holes at the other guy. Majority of sf/ fantasy nowadays goes for subtle/ important/ meaningful, why can't this one be left ridiculous and senseless. That's obviously my understanding of 40k though, feel free to have yours.

btw what was it with light years long base full of Necrons? Subtle.

btw 2 only kids, good point.

Maybe, just maybe, not everyone thinks like you. And maybe Tau are for people that think differently than you. I know it may be shocking, but it could be true.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Maybe, just maybe, not everyone thinks like you. And maybe Tau are for people that think differently than you. I know it may be shocking, but it could be true.

I don't know why would you put it like that, I think I made it clear that it is all in my opinion only. Not only that, I also accepted some time ago that I may be right only about what 40k was at best because now it is clearly becoming more fantasyish, epic and indeed, more subtle. It's GWs game after all, they decide. It's only claims like Tyranids should be removed before Tau bring out the best in me.

my opinion obviously but I like the whole TAU race and what it stands for. For the greater good just works for me. Its simple and clear for one to achieve anything in life just by abiding to this policy. Its the reason in real life we cant progress past a certain point. We live on this planet with too many distractions leading us away from the truth and keeping us at war with one another. Multiple religions, race, colour of skin is enough to keep that divide and conquer settlement in action and with something to unite us once and for all together we will stay as limited as we are. Maybe that's our masters real goal? To keep us at bay for their own demise?

Anyways, TAU get full points for being a full united front with the actual belief that what they are doing is for the greater good. Good luck to them and their campaigns. I for one am a Blood Angel diehard fan and wont ever leave their side. Even though they have their human souls tested each day with loyalty and belief. Much like in real day life I guess.

Just my thoughts

 LiveForTheSwarm wrote:

I'll assume you're talking to me?... Uh what's wrong with me? I don't know? I guess I don't play against power gaming WAAC Tau players that spam riptides I suppose.The games we play are typically reasonable and not spammy.

And this is the problem.

Whilst I admire people who don't aim or seek to abuse the rules just to win a game (my FLGS is the same), the fact is, we are on a Wargaming Forum, and Dakka.

And on Dakka we have to compare the most hardcore list and compare it competitively, because we have to as casually we cannot compare anything to anything apparently.

And this is the reason why Tau get so much hate is because of how much people are willing to abuse the rules a set of poorly written rules and create abusive lists with Tau, just to win a game of toy soldiers.

This is why Tau get so much hate.