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 Selym wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Problem, Heretic?

Yes.

I have a retort, even if Furyou doesn't.

You can figure it out from this, if you know your memes

As much as I'm pro IoM I'd have to say SoB. At this point they're the only range left where metals are common. The price of the army is much higher due to this so very few new if any are buying into them. As a fully fleshed out army they dont even have a hard copy codex unlike every other army.

Just put them out of their misery already, the army reminds me of a suffering animal the the owner wont put down "because we love them!"

 Selym wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Can't stand these fething threads. There's no point to them, just another excuse for people to bash Tau, really. Trolling is what it is.

Most of the posts have been bashing IOM spam, rather than Tau. Though, admittedly, I did bash Tau.

...They know what they did...

I still don't see the point in these threads. How can a thread like this be at all constructive? All it does is piss people off, because every faction is someone's favorite, and considering the massive investment required to partake in this hobby, it inevitably gets personal.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Can't stand these fething threads. There's no point to them, just another excuse for people to bash Tau, really. Trolling is what it is.

Most of the posts have been bashing IOM spam, rather than Tau. Though, admittedly, I did bash Tau.

...They know what they did...

I still don't see the point in these threads. How can a thread like this be at all constructive? All it does is piss people off, because every faction is someone's favorite, and considering the massive investment required to partake in this hobby, it inevitably gets personal.

Basically this. We can all complain all day about ZOMG THE KNIGHTS NEED TO GO! I DON"T LIKE SPACHE MURINES! GET RID OF UM ALL! TAU ARE WEABOOS! Whatever m8. I say ditch the Scion codex, because it gives you nothing new that isn't in the base Guard book, and some of the talk about merging some books together is actually not bad, but saying this and that and this and those things need to go because I don't like them is just pointless.

I'd remove Tau. Not because of some perceived OP-ness, but because I think the army is flawed in the core of its design.

The game offers the option for both melee and ranged combat. An army that is not able to utilize one or the other is inherintly flawed. Because the army lacks melee, it needs to excel in shooting, and because of that, other armies can't compete so any shooty army I make will be at a disadvantage.

Also, this game is supposed to have "the right tools for the right jobs", the tools being the weapons and the jobs being the units being killed. Tau don't work like that. they've got tools that do practically all jobs that need doing. Blob of infantry comming towards you? Missiles. Small number, elite unit comming at you? Missiles. Vehicle comming at you? Unless it's a land raider, which you most likely can ignore, missiles.

They're just boring.

Melissia wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Problem, Heretic?

Yes.

I have a retort, even if Furyou doesn't.

You can figure it out from this, if you know your memes

... That is so much better than my sunglasses edit. May I?

DaPino wrote:
I'd remove Tau. Not because of some perceived OP-ness, but because I think the army is flawed in the core of its design.

The game offers the option for both melee and ranged combat. An army that is not able to utilize one or the other is inherintly flawed. Because the army lacks melee, it needs to excel in shooting, and because of that, other armies can't compete so any shooty army I make will be at a disadvantage.

Also, this game is supposed to have "the right tools for the right jobs", the tools being the weapons and the jobs being the units being killed. Tau don't work like that. they've got tools that do practically all jobs that need doing. Blob of infantry comming towards you? Missiles. Small number, elite unit comming at you? Missiles. Vehicle comming at you? Unless it's a land raider, which you most likely can ignore, missiles.

They're just boring.

Tau simply need their allied troops, such as the Kroot & Vespids to be properly fleshed out and viable, instead of near-pointless and badly implemented add-ons...

Imagine for example if Vespids where given a weapon more akin to Dark Pit's bow/staff weapon? Give them a short ranged, low rate of fire shooting attack and then the ability to fight with 2A per model on the charge, at ap3 in combat, at average WS/I and S5?
Suddenly you have a unit designed to neuter MEQ's at close range, both with shooting and close combat, but either on it's own won't be enough to take out a squad. (instead of their current crappy rules, which rely purely on shooting and yet isn't anywhere near sufficient to even reliably dent a typical MEQ unit!)
These guys would be a lot cooler if they were more akin to the likes of Necron Pretorians, and would likely actually see the table if they were made into a similar type of unit.

Same deal with Kroot... Bring in the Kroot cavalry & perhaps even the winged Kroot, give them perhaps the ability to take a handful of Flamers or Pulse Carbines as upgrades, and make them relevant as a real close combat skirmishing screen, rather than their current role of cheap bubble wrap for Fire Warriors and/or Pathfinders.

Tau are only boring atm because GW has entirely shoehorned them into a gunline army. Their background is actually really cool, being a very arrogant race who hand waves away the horrors of the galaxy as savage supersitions, while simultaneously their leadership is incredibly manipulative and sinister in how they subjugate others (even their own race!) 'for the Greater Good'.

Played another SOB player today.


Get rid of them. At least they aren't as overpowered as they used to be.

DaPino wrote:
I'd remove Tau. Not because of some perceived OP-ness, but because I think the army is flawed in the core of its design.

The game offers the option for both melee and ranged combat. An army that is not able to utilize one or the other is inherintly flawed. Because the army lacks melee, it needs to excel in shooting, and because of that, other armies can't compete so any shooty army I make will be at a disadvantage.

Also, this game is supposed to have "the right tools for the right jobs", the tools being the weapons and the jobs being the units being killed. Tau don't work like that. they've got tools that do practically all jobs that need doing. Blob of infantry comming towards you? Missiles. Small number, elite unit comming at you? Missiles. Vehicle comming at you? Unless it's a land raider, which you most likely can ignore, missiles.

They're just boring.

So the solution to the problem isn't to try and actually fix the rules, taking a hard look at the core mechanics of the Tau codex and figuring out how to make them better or more "interesting" to play (in other words, doing a little game design, which I guess, to be fair, doesn't seem to be what GW's game designers are very good at anymore), it's "feth it, axe 'em!"?

A little extreme, if you ask me, but I guess considering GW gave up on Fantasy and turned it into a kiddie clone of 40k complete with its own Space Marine derivative to act as its poster boys, it's probably how GW would actually handle it. Either that or they'd just make Tau into Space Marine clones.

Also, the main reason why missiles are so good is because the core rules encourage spamming mid-strength weaponry, it's not a problem with the Tau codex specifically. If that's why you think Tau should be removed from the game then Eldar should be, too, since scatter lasers are spammable and good generalist weapons just like missiles are. Maybe Guard, even, since they can still spam autocannons, right? If the game is supposed to be about having the right tools for the right jobs then the Tau codex isn't their only "failure" there.

 Sidstyler wrote:

DaPino wrote:
I'd remove Tau. Not because of some perceived OP-ness, but because I think the army is flawed in the core of its design.

The game offers the option for both melee and ranged combat. An army that is not able to utilize one or the other is inherintly flawed. Because the army lacks melee, it needs to excel in shooting, and because of that, other armies can't compete so any shooty army I make will be at a disadvantage.

Also, this game is supposed to have "the right tools for the right jobs", the tools being the weapons and the jobs being the units being killed. Tau don't work like that. they've got tools that do practically all jobs that need doing. Blob of infantry comming towards you? Missiles. Small number, elite unit comming at you? Missiles. Vehicle comming at you? Unless it's a land raider, which you most likely can ignore, missiles.

They're just boring.

So the solution to the problem isn't to try and actually fix the rules, taking a hard look at the core mechanics of the Tau codex and figuring out how to make them better or more "interesting" to play (in other words, doing a little game design, which I guess, to be fair, doesn't seem to be what GW's game designers are very good at anymore), it's "feth it, axe 'em!"?

A little extreme, if you ask me, but I guess considering GW gave up on Fantasy and turned it into a kiddie clone of 40k complete with its own Space Marine derivative to act as its poster boys, it's probably how GW would actually handle it. Either that or they'd just make Tau into Space Marine clones.

Also, the main reason why missiles are so good is because the core rules encourage spamming mid-strength weaponry, it's not a problem with the Tau codex specifically. If that's why you think Tau should be removed from the game then Eldar should be, too, since scatter lasers are spammable and good generalist weapons just like missiles are. Maybe Guard, even, since they can still spam autocannons, right? If the game is supposed to be about having the right tools for the right jobs then the Tau codex isn't their only "failure" there.

The question asked was not "How would you fix Tau" it was "what army would you get rid of?".
I'd much prefer them to fix Tau but that was just not relevant for the thread.

I would like to see Slaanesh Daemons get rebranded or replaced by malal daemons. (lol malal got Auto corrected to mall)

I also wouldn't lose my fecal matter if DA and BA were dropped to give SoB some attention.

Or give a reboot to the Ordo Xenos, Hereticus, And Malleus in that order

 Madoch1 wrote:
I would like to see Slaanesh Daemons get rebranded or replaced by malal daemons. (lol malal got Auto corrected to mall)

I also wouldn't lose my fecal matter if DA and BA were dropped to give SoB some attention.

Or give a reboot to the Ordo Xenos, Hereticus, And Malleus in that order

Mall Daemons?!

Do they sit around the food court in dressed in the latest hot topic outfit all day?

I wouldn't mind them refocusing slannesh into the pride side of things instead of the excess. I think it would work awesome.

INQ just needs there own BIG book. with lots of interesting cross codex formations. (also hide in Sisters, GK, and Deathwatch in there too)

Mall Daemons, they follow the deadliest Chaos God of them all: Paul Blart.


Seriously though Madoch, do you mean squatting DA and BA, or just rolling them into Codex: Space Marines like some have said? Because I'd rather not lose my army...

 Desubot wrote:

 Madoch1 wrote:
I would like to see Slaanesh Daemons get rebranded or replaced by malal daemons. (lol malal got Auto corrected to mall)

I also wouldn't lose my fecal matter if DA and BA were dropped to give SoB some attention.

Or give a reboot to the Ordo Xenos, Hereticus, And Malleus in that order

Mall Daemons?!

Do they sit around the food court in dressed in the latest hot topic outfit all day?

I wouldn't mind them refocusing slannesh into the pride side of things instead of the excess. I think it would work awesome.

INQ just needs there own BIG book. with lots of interesting cross codex formations. (also hide in Sisters, GK, and Deathwatch in there too)

Or maybe the CSM supplements could bite the big bazooka.

Also maybe hire some better name makers for Khorne stuff. You know…. Blood letters, blood reapers, blood crushers, blood hunters, blood bakers, blood farmers, blood dealers, blood angels. Oh wait


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Mall Daemons, they follow the deadliest Chaos God of them all: Paul Blart.


Seriously though Madoch, do you mean squatting DA and BA, or just rolling them into Codex: Space Marines like some have said? Because I'd rather not lose my army...

Just roll all of them into one book and label it Ultra-Wolf-Dark-Iron-Knight-Angel's-Fist's-Scars-Raven-Lizards….. from Space.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Melissia wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Problem, Heretic?

Yes.

I have a retort, even if Furyou doesn't.

You can figure it out from this, if you know your memes

... That is so much better than my sunglasses edit. May I?

Go ahead. I just kind of slapped it on there haphazardly, I wasn't really trying, I admit >.>

Then your native skill is higher than mine.

Necrons. So I don't have to spend more money on 40K

 Madoch1 wrote:

Or maybe the CSM supplements could bite the big bazooka.

Also maybe hire some better name makers for Khorne stuff. You know…. Blood letters, blood reapers, blood crushers, blood hunters, blood bakers, blood farmers, blood dealers, blood angels. Oh wait

I KNEW IT!

 Madoch1 wrote:

Just roll all of them into one book and label it Ultra-Wolf-Dark-Iron-Knight-Angel's-Fist's-Scars-Raven-Lizards….. from Space.

Honestly that's really what most have been saying. I'm cool with it as long as nothing's lost. GK probably can't fit in that book though (hence why those who wanted to roll it into something else put in it the Inquisition book or something else).

On a side note re-reading the post I misread "Mall Daemons" as "Matt Daemons". First thought might be Matt Damon but I'm pretty sure those are really aligned with the only Chaos God greater than Paul Blart.

The Imperium is doomed.

On a sidenote, I've been thinking about those suggesting that Imperial Knights go in the hypothetical combined AdMech book, do they really fit there?

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

 Madoch1 wrote:

Or maybe the CSM supplements could bite the big bazooka.

Also maybe hire some better name makers for Khorne stuff. You know…. Blood letters, blood reapers, blood crushers, blood hunters, blood bakers, blood farmers, blood dealers, blood angels. Oh wait

I KNEW IT!

 Madoch1 wrote:

Just roll all of them into one book and label it Ultra-Wolf-Dark-Iron-Knight-Angel's-Fist's-Scars-Raven-Lizards….. from Space.

Honestly that's really what most have been saying. I'm cool with it as long as nothing's lost. GK probably can't fit in that book though (hence why those who wanted to roll it into something else put in it the Inquisition book or something else).

On a side note re-reading the post I misread "Mall Daemons" as "Matt Daemons". First thought might be Matt Damon but I'm pretty sure those are really aligned with the only Chaos God greater than Paul Blart.

The Imperium is doomed.

On a sidenote, I've been thinking about those suggesting that Imperial Knights go in the hypothetical combined AdMech book, do they really fit there?

I dont think they really do.

I thought they where special as feth. though there are Admech alined ones.

I think they should just be in most books as individual houses with there own specializations and bonuses. Ad mech one can get like IWND, One in IG is bog standard but cheaper, Whtie dwarf ones are more for interesting effects, SM ones depending on the house works together with SM chapter. like hawkshroud with IF. and stuff.

 Desubot wrote:
I dont think they really do.

I thought they where special as feth. though there are Admech alined ones.

I think they should just be in most books as individual houses with there own specializations and bonuses. Ad mech one can get like IWND, One in IG is bog standard but cheaper, Whtie dwarf ones are more for interesting effects, SM ones depending on the house works together with SM chapter. like hawkshroud with IF. and stuff.

I think that would be pretty cool. Helps that a lot of books don't have much in the way of LOW units. For example, Dark Angels only have Azrael. This would at least give some more choice for LOW.
On a sidenote if there was an Imperial Knight in the DA Codex that would give me decent Anti-Air (that generic Carapace-mounted Anti-Air gun works), I'd buy it immediately!