Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hadnt thought about Rippers.

They seem useful, but not amazing. Below Guard, but above Storm Guardians somewhere?

The Harlequin Troupes should probably be a bit higher. I'm thinking right above Guardsmen? They can do things, but T3 5++ at 15ppm naked can hurt.

It needs to be remembered that the Pod is AV12. Most troops in the game cannot even scratch it. So it takes AT firepower to remove. Firepower that isn't shooting something else.

I probably should include all slot swapping units. Although this is probably the one case where what allows their slot swap gets factored in.

Oh wow, just saw the updated list, and Necron Warriors are number 2? I'm shocked, actually.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Oh wow, just saw the updated list, and Necron Warriors are number 2? I'm shocked, actually.

You shouldn't be.

Martel732 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Oh wow, just saw the updated list, and Necron Warriors are number 2? I'm shocked, actually.

You shouldn't be.

That Necron Warriors are above SM bikers? I feel the shock is warranted.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Oh wow, just saw the updated list, and Necron Warriors are number 2? I'm shocked, actually.

You shouldn't be.

That Necron Warriors are above SM bikers? I feel the shock is warranted.

I kinda agree with the shock here...
Warriors are great Troops no doubt, but Grav Bikers are just outright bonkers.

Best troops are Nurglings! 2 units at 45pts, takes up 90 points of your force org. Go put in the good stuff and don't sweat it.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Best troops are Nurglings! 2 units at 45pts, takes up 90 points of your force org. Go put in the good stuff and don't sweat it.

And they comes with Infiltrate!

I wouldn't by any means called them 'the best' though... Swarms are ludicrously easy to kill, and the Nurglings themselves have pretty much 0 effective damage output.
They do however function as one of the cheapest 'Troops Tax' options in the game, and provide added board control thanks to Infiltrate.

The new Tallyband formation does really boost their utility, and adds some additional survivability for any units that eventually get in range of the formation's Herald. (who probably is toting the Locus of FnP)

Can't nurglings fling poo and blind the enemy? Pretty handy for a cheap unit that can deploy up in the face of the enemy?

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Troupe placed that low still? common guys didnt you read what they do? they're great!

Harlequins are a garbage fire. If anything they're ranked too high.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Oh wow, just saw the updated list, and Necron Warriors are number 2? I'm shocked, actually.

You shouldn't be.

That Necron Warriors are above SM bikers? I feel the shock is warranted.

I kinda agree with the shock here...
Warriors are great Troops no doubt, but Grav Bikers are just outright bonkers.

Grav bikers actually have medicore durability/pt. They can't easily get two saves, and so weapons like scatterlasers remove even more points of grav bikers than tac marines.

So... Flip Necron Warriors and Bikers? Or do Warriors need to go further down?

I'd rate warriors better only when using formations. If we are going by CAD then I'd say the bike squad wins.

Bharring wrote:
Hadnt thought about Rippers.

They seem useful, but not amazing. Below Guard, but above Storm Guardians somewhere?

The Harlequin Troupes should probably be a bit higher. I'm thinking right above Guardsmen? They can do things, but T3 5++ at 15ppm naked can hurt.

It needs to be remembered that the Pod is AV12. Most troops in the game cannot even scratch it. So it takes AT firepower to remove. Firepower that isn't shooting something else.

I probably should include all slot swapping units. Although this is probably the one case where what allows their slot swap gets factored in.

For Ork Deffdreads, you need the Dread Mob ruleset and a mandatory unit of Spanna Boyz (regular Boyz with a built in 6+ FnP and free access to Shootas). It's neat how Deff Dread skwadrons can be a thing though, albeit not that good.

For Warbikers, you need Zhadsnark to be a Warlord. He comes with I4 S10 AP2, gives Skilled Rider to his unit and if attached to Warbikers, Scout. Downside is that you can't take Walkers (meh) or Mek Gunz (pretty big, since Mek Gunz are amazing).

Well technically Big Guns, but we'll see when IA rolls around.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'd rate warriors better only when using formations. If we are going by CAD then I'd say the bike squad wins.

Yeah, hard to argue with that. With the Decurion they suddenly (and easily) become one of the best troops.

So is this list for CAD only?

Bharring wrote:
Hadnt thought about Rippers.


The Harlequin Troupes should probably be a bit higher. I'm thinking right above Guardsmen? They can do things, but T3 5++ at 15ppm naked can hurt.

If its just ONLY as a unit basis, 0 thought with synergy then they still should be higher than a guardsman, imo. dozens of attacks that can have instant death or autowounding ap2 is great, yeah they're squishy but they're meant to be played in cover with their special rules helping a lot. Synergy wise they are untouchable by any guard threat until they are ready to fight, and I even have my troupes absolutely slaughter a fully buffed up TWC unit (troupe+shadowseer)

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

Bharring wrote:

The Harlequin Troupes

dozens of attacks that can have instant death or autowounding ap2 is great,

For a mere one million points?

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Synergy wise they are untouchable by any guard threat until they are ready to fight,

3 Toughness and a 5+ Invulnerable is hardly untouchable. If you meant including a Shadowseer, then 1.2 million points, and now they're still touchable and unreliable.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

Bharring wrote:

The Harlequin Troupes

dozens of attacks that can have instant death or autowounding ap2 is great,

For a mere one million points?

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Synergy wise they are untouchable by any guard threat until they are ready to fight,

3 Toughness and a 5+ Invulnerable is hardly untouchable. If you meant including a Shadowseer, then 1.2 million points, and now they're still touchable and unreliable.

That`s why I said with a shadowseer, yes. and weapons larger than 24`cant fire at them then, letting them get close fast.

Unit alone is pushing 20 attacks in melee that wound anything in the game no armour saves allowed on a 6, another 5 attacks at range, can threaten ANY UNIT in the game plus can be outfit to counter basically any list from the anti multi-wound, anti-horde or anti-TEQ/MEQ. Also, all of them can have melta or ap 2 fleshbane pistols to help even more.
Yes, they cost a lot, 140 points for 5 models (that can kill anything) but like most Eldar units, they die to a small breeze, but troupes will never be exposed, they will always be in 4+ cover, be with a seer or in transport for 4++. I think thats a bit better than a guardsman

I don't get why anyone would rank Krieg troopers as worse than regular Guardsmen.

I mean sure, on paper they might look less point-effective, but in my own experience, they're totally worth the extra cost.

The Krieg special rules, which are basically what you're paying for, provide your troops with tremendous staying power. My troops never run away, from anything. If you shoot at regular Guardsmen, half the time they'll panic and vamoose. Krieg troopers stay put.

Also, krak grenades aren't half-bad. You've just got to remember you have them. And it's not the sort of equipment I'd ordinarily spend points on, so I try to use them as much as possible.

Worst troops I`ve evver seen:
30k: Unbuffed Inducted Levy. Toiletpaperarmour and a Matchlock......
40k: Ripper-swarm.

tau breachers really aren't that good. you look at the weapons damage potential and "GO OH WOWWIE" until you realize that they:

1: need a devil fish to even be good at all
2: absolutely HAVE to kill whatever they're shooting at or else they'll get charged next turn and be cleaned out.

Normal fire warriors do their job so much better, that they're practically pointless. Kroot are better too, due to out flank and sniper rounds, and not completely flopping over if charged.

Jaxler wrote:
tau breachers really aren't that good. you look at the weapons damage potential and "GO OH WOWWIE" until you realize that they:

1: need a devil fish to even be good at all
2: absolutely HAVE to kill whatever they're shooting at or else they'll get charged next turn and be cleaned out.

Normal fire warriors do their job so much better, that they're practically pointless. Kroot are better too, due to out flank and sniper rounds, and not completely flopping over if charged.

That is true but any good player is going for your makerlights and more important things. I think they could slip by or work as a distraction better than you might think. Given the top Tau player at the largest event brought them I intend to proxy some next time I can get a game and give it a go. He took them with EMP grenades and devilfish and an Ethereal.

 Ankhalagon wrote:
Worst troops I`ve evver seen:
30k: Unbuffed Inducted Levy. Toiletpaperarmour and a matchlock

They are 2 ppm! When you can basically take a squad per Assault Marine you face, I do not expect them to be as strong individually.

They rock because they are the cheapest bodies in 30k.

 Gamgee wrote:

Jaxler wrote:
tau breachers really aren't that good. you look at the weapons damage potential and "GO OH WOWWIE" until you realize that they:

1: need a devil fish to even be good at all
2: absolutely HAVE to kill whatever they're shooting at or else they'll get charged next turn and be cleaned out.

Normal fire warriors do their job so much better, that they're practically pointless. Kroot are better too, due to out flank and sniper rounds, and not completely flopping over if charged.

That is true but any good player is going for your makerlights and more important things. I think they could slip by or work as a distraction better than you might think. Given the top Tau player at the largest event brought them I intend to proxy some next time I can get a game and give it a go. He took them with EMP grenades and devilfish and an Ethereal.

With the right list, under the right circumstances breachers can pull their weight. I'm curious, since the list includes the "sometimes-troops" units like plague marines and space marine bikes, why aren't crisis suits on this list and where do people think they place? (I haven't read all 7 pages, so sorry if this has already been addressed.)

Crisis Troops are grade A awesome. If they are taken as troops they are somewhere near the very top of the hierarchy only being outdone by Eldar Jetbikes and the cheesiest of troops options. Way better than Firewarriors and Breachers. Perhaps even the second best troop in the entire game.

 Gamgee wrote:
Crisis Troops are grade A awesome. If they are taken as troops they are somewhere near the very top of the hierarchy only being outdone by Eldar Jetbikes and the cheesiest of troops options. Way better than Firewarriors and Breachers. Perhaps even the second best troop in the entire game.

I consider them very good myself, certainly versatile. However their highly specialized nature combined with their relatively low resilience per point, prevents them from falling into the undercosted (or cheesy) category IMHO. You consider them superior to grav bikers? Is this the general consensus? I'm just curious what the average view of crisis suits is.