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The North Koreans were crushed in the war until the Chinese intervened. I suspect a total war today would go down the same especially if the US got assistance from other countries namely China. Whatever the North Koreans can produce the US can make a lot more of and better.
And this is all assuming the North Korean army won't fold under significant pressure and that numerically superiority means anything in an age of advanced close air support and precision artillery. I think you are overestimating the abilities of the North Korean army to do anything but blow up South Korea by a wide margin.
China invades North Korea to aid the US? While we're fantasizing, I'd like a hot blonde and a bottle of Jack.
One, the US would have to disengage and redeploy it's forces from current deployments to NK. This could take weeks in and of itself.
Two, we're assuming that there is no effective decapitation strike against the SK military. Remember that Seoul and bases closer to NK are likely write offs in the initial exchange. This would likely cause issues with effective defense in the short term.
Invading North Korea without China's support, no matter how minor, is foolish and could actually kickstart a Nuclear exchange. China values North Korea as a buffer state and seeing that buffer state be violated would greatly upset them. The reason why the Chinese got involved in the Korean War in the first place is because they didn't want their borders to be violated by US forces.
For South Korea? I highly doubt the South Koreans are stupid enough to leave their entire military command in a position where they can be wiped out by pre-positioned artillery. Or at least I'd hope so.
Its literally the entire point of NK being a buffer state..
The North Koreans were crushed in the war until the Chinese intervened. I suspect a total war today would go down the same especially if the US got assistance from other countries namely China. Whatever the North Koreans can produce the US can make a lot more of and better.
And this is all assuming the North Korean army won't fold under significant pressure and that numerically superiority means anything in an age of advanced close air support and precision artillery. I think you are overestimating the abilities of the North Korean army to do anything but blow up South Korea by a wide margin.
China invades North Korea to aid the US? While we're fantasizing, I'd like a hot blonde and a bottle of Jack.
One, the US would have to disengage and redeploy it's forces from current deployments to NK. This could take weeks in and of itself.
Two, we're assuming that there is no effective decapitation strike against the SK military. Remember that Seoul and bases closer to NK are likely write offs in the initial exchange. This would likely cause issues with effective defense in the short term.
Invading North Korea without China's support, no matter how minor, is foolish and could actually kickstart a Nuclear exchange. China values North Korea as a buffer state and seeing that buffer state be violated would greatly upset them. The reason why the Chinese got involved in the Korean War in the first place is because they didn't want their borders to be violated by US forces.
For South Korea? I highly doubt the South Koreans are stupid enough to leave their entire military command in a position where they can be wiped out by pre-positioned artillery. Or at least I'd hope so.
No but there forward defense lines will take a real beating.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
The North Koreans were crushed in the war until the Chinese intervened. I suspect a total war today would go down the same especially if the US got assistance from other countries namely China. Whatever the North Koreans can produce the US can make a lot more of and better.
And this is all assuming the North Korean army won't fold under significant pressure and that numerically superiority means anything in an age of advanced close air support and precision artillery. I think you are overestimating the abilities of the North Korean army to do anything but blow up South Korea by a wide margin.
China invades North Korea to aid the US? While we're fantasizing, I'd like a hot blonde and a bottle of Jack.
One, the US would have to disengage and redeploy it's forces from current deployments to NK. This could take weeks in and of itself.
Two, we're assuming that there is no effective decapitation strike against the SK military. Remember that Seoul and bases closer to NK are likely write offs in the initial exchange. This would likely cause issues with effective defense in the short term.
Invading North Korea without China's support, no matter how minor, is foolish and could actually kickstart a Nuclear exchange. China values North Korea as a buffer state and seeing that buffer state be violated would greatly upset them. The reason why the Chinese got involved in the Korean War in the first place is because they didn't want their borders to be violated by US forces.
For South Korea? I highly doubt the South Koreans are stupid enough to leave their entire military command in a position where they can be wiped out by pre-positioned artillery. Or at least I'd hope so.
Is the bolded part still true today? I'm no expert but from what I have read about the situation China is rather pissed at NK's antics and posturing. These days China is rather similar to the rest of us in that it benefits from stability for its economic growth and NK whining and trying to intimidate others doesn't help them.
The North Koreans were crushed in the war until the Chinese intervened. I suspect a total war today would go down the same especially if the US got assistance from other countries namely China. Whatever the North Koreans can produce the US can make a lot more of and better.
And this is all assuming the North Korean army won't fold under significant pressure and that numerically superiority means anything in an age of advanced close air support and precision artillery. I think you are overestimating the abilities of the North Korean army to do anything but blow up South Korea by a wide margin.
China invades North Korea to aid the US? While we're fantasizing, I'd like a hot blonde and a bottle of Jack.
One, the US would have to disengage and redeploy it's forces from current deployments to NK. This could take weeks in and of itself.
Two, we're assuming that there is no effective decapitation strike against the SK military. Remember that Seoul and bases closer to NK are likely write offs in the initial exchange. This would likely cause issues with effective defense in the short term.
Invading North Korea without China's support, no matter how minor, is foolish and could actually kickstart a Nuclear exchange. China values North Korea as a buffer state and seeing that buffer state be violated would greatly upset them. The reason why the Chinese got involved in the Korean War in the first place is because they didn't want their borders to be violated by US forces.
For South Korea? I highly doubt the South Koreans are stupid enough to leave their entire military command in a position where they can be wiped out by pre-positioned artillery. Or at least I'd hope so.
Is the bolded part still true today? I'm no expert but from what I have read about the situation China is rather pissed at NK's antics and posturing. These days China is rather similar to the rest of us in that it benefits from stability for its economic growth and NK whining and trying to intimidate others doesn't help them.
From my understanding of the situation it's not so much that China likes North Korea but hates countries aligned with unfriendly nations. Namely Japan and the US. So, China probably can't stand fat boy's little cult of personality and his renegade country they probably would hate the idea of a unified Korea that's friendly to "The West" even more.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
Its literally the entire point of NK being a buffer state..
Yes, but as has been mentioned the situation is a little different now than it was 60 years ago.
China can't really afford to protect it's buffer state in the event of armed conflict because that would destroy their economy as the US, and others, consumption are the primary drivers of China's export focused economy. They might not like losing a political ally, but total economic ruin, and the likely political revolution that follows, would be way worse.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Its literally the entire point of NK being a buffer state..
Yes, but as has been mentioned the situation is a little different now than it was 60 years ago.
China can't really afford to protect it's buffer state in the event of armed conflict because that would destroy their economy as the US, and others, consumption are the primary drivers of China's export focused economy. They might not like losing a political ally, but total economic ruin, and the likely political revolution that follows, would be way worse.
Plus depends hpe conflict comes arise. If he is a grade A mpron and fires a missile at US or Japan and they retaliate, then he probbly fair game tp whatever happened tp him
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
From my understanding of the situation it's not so much that China likes North Korea but hates countries aligned with unfriendly nations. Namely Japan and the US. So, China probably can't stand fat boy's little cult of personality and his renegade country they probably would hate the idea of a unified Korea that's friendly to "The West" even more.
Yeah, and a united Korea loyal to the US would mean even more military bases and missile stations within striking distance of the Chinese coastline, which they wouldn't be happy about
ulgurstasta wrote: Yeah, and a united Korea loyal to the US would mean even more military bases and missile stations within striking distance of the Chinese coastline, which they wouldn't be happy about
Except a unified Korea could easily come with a reduction of US forces, even their removal. The US troops are there because of NK. Sure the US would like more presence hemming in China in, but solving the NK problem would be preferred, and it isn't like the US lack for bases in other countries in region.
There are other issues at play. First is that any conflict in the peninsula would send millions of refugees in to China, in to a region the country that is already hugely problematic for the leadership. Everyone notice the US freakout when they were voluntarily taking thousands of refugees? Imagine millions of refugees being forced on you.
The second issue is that NK may be a pain in the ass for China, but it's China's pain in the ass. A bit like India failed multiple times to resolve the situation in Sri Lanka, but still got really pissy when the Chinese came in and handled the solution. Of course India didn't do anything beyond getting pissy, but that was resolving a long running civil war. This would be US intervention in a dangerous but static situation - not sure how the Chinese would react.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
ulgurstasta wrote: Yeah, and a united Korea loyal to the US would mean even more military bases and missile stations within striking distance of the Chinese coastline, which they wouldn't be happy about
Except a unified Korea could easily come with a reduction of US forces, even their removal. The US troops are there because of NK. Sure the US would like more presence hemming in China in, but solving the NK problem would be preferred, and it isn't like the US lack for bases in other countries in region.
I think it would be naive to believe that the US would downscale their military in the region after a NK surrender. Considering the tension between the US and China currently, SK and Japan aren't getting armed to solely scare the NK if you catch my drift
ulgurstasta wrote: Yeah, and a united Korea loyal to the US would mean even more military bases and missile stations within striking distance of the Chinese coastline, which they wouldn't be happy about
Except a unified Korea could easily come with a reduction of US forces, even their removal. The US troops are there because of NK. Sure the US would like more presence hemming in China in, but solving the NK problem would be preferred, and it isn't like the US lack for bases in other countries in region.
I think it would be naive to believe that the US would downscale their military in the region after a NK surrender. Considering the tension between the US and China currently, SK and Japan aren't getting armed to solely scare the NK if you catch my drift
A unified Korean would definitely reduce the US footprint.
We'll still be there, for sure... but not like it is now.
ulgurstasta wrote: I think it would be naive to believe that the US would downscale their military in the region after a NK surrender. Considering the tension between the US and China currently, SK and Japan aren't getting armed to solely scare the NK if you catch my drift
What's naive is building a hypothetical around Korean unification in which the US just happily ignored Chinese sensitivities. "feth you we're keeping troops in Korea" is beyond stupid. The process will involve extensive negotiations, and a major part of those negotiations will involve conceding to China things about which it is particularly sensitive, like a threatening number of US troops on the Korean peninsula, because it doesn't materially impact US capability in the region, given their bases in Japan etc.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Yeah. If and when Korea is reunited, the US military presence in Korea would most definitely be reduced significantly. China isn't a direct military threat to world security at the moment. We also aren't at war with China, unlike we are with North Korea.
Lots of people forget that, from a strict technical perspective, the Korean War has never ended. It's been going on for 60 years. We keep all those soldiers in South Korea because we're actually at war still.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/20 07:00:04
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: Yeah. If and when Korea is reunited, the US military presence in Korea would most definitely be reduced significantly. China isn't a direct military threat to world security at the moment. We also aren't at war with China, unlike we are with North Korea.
Lots of people forget that, from a strict technical perspective, the Korean War has never ended. It's been going on for 60 years. We keep all those soldiers in South Korea because we're actually at war still.
Yeah we declared a 60 year now cease fire.
The war never ended, it just went cold. Well warmish but not hot.
They could start back up whenever they felt like it which is scary.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
For South Korea? I highly doubt the South Koreans are stupid enough to leave their entire military command in a position where they can be wiped out by pre-positioned artillery. Or at least I'd hope so.
I remind you the United States frequently has the entire chain of succession inside the blast radius of a 'first strike'. Keeping key people at a distance from the capitol is great in theory, but in practice it quickly falls by the wayside.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
For South Korea? I highly doubt the South Koreans are stupid enough to leave their entire military command in a position where they can be wiped out by pre-positioned artillery. Or at least I'd hope so.
I remind you the United States frequently has the entire chain of succession inside the blast radius of a 'first strike'. Keeping key people at a distance from the capitol is great in theory, but in practice it quickly falls by the wayside.
If you're talking about nuclear war, in order to have at least someone from the line of succession safe, you'd have to keep at least 1 of them in a nuclear bunker at all times.
Of course in the event of a total nuclear strike, we'd have some warning. ICBMs are fast, but they give some warning. IIRC there is a doomsday bunker under the White House and the Capital. Or at least one within a few minutes drive.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
For South Korea? I highly doubt the South Koreans are stupid enough to leave their entire military command in a position where they can be wiped out by pre-positioned artillery. Or at least I'd hope so.
I remind you the United States frequently has the entire chain of succession inside the blast radius of a 'first strike'. Keeping key people at a distance from the capitol is great in theory, but in practice it quickly falls by the wayside.
He keeps on trying.
You know people generally call him a joke but if they start taking him seriously...
Things may get worse for him...
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
I appreciate the fact that it's easy for me to say this, as I'm in the middle of nowhere, but in many respects, the USA has nothing to fear from NK.
Any attack on the US mainland, a US military base, or South Korea and Japan = North Korea being wiped from the map.
NK knows it's game over if the US mainland is targeted, and I doubt if they're that stupid to go down that path.
Not even China could protect NK from the USA's wrath.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
NK knows it's game over if the US mainland is targeted, and I doubt if they're that stupid to go down that path.
That depends on how much they believe their own propaganda.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
NK knows it's game over if the US mainland is targeted, and I doubt if they're that stupid to go down that path.
That depends on how much they believe their own propaganda.
Depends but yeah. One missile headed to US mainland.
Us military might of multiple carrier battle groups rapidly moving to counter attack. 3-400 or more strike aircraft or more. And ernough ordinance to maintain combat for weeks.
Marine MEU units can be landed and combat ready in 24 hours anywhere on the earth each supplied for least a week of heavy combat on there own.
With air capacity and bringing in full feth you mode, hundred plus transport planes rapidly deploying tens of thousands of troops daily, the B52, B1 and lancers, that's gonna be one hell of a counter attack.
I doubt China would protect them if they tried to nuke someone. They may try to mount own coup and go take over themselves, to protect buffer, and depise him themselves.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Its definitely a given that NK gets utterly wiped out. We'd probably just land a nuke on Pyongyang and couple of their other cities, and use conventional weapons on their other installations.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
It's not just military supremacy the USA would gain in the highly unlikely event of an NK attack, but political supremacy both home and abroad.
Who would put their neck on the line if San Diego, Honolulu, or San Fran got attacked by NK? Nobody.
It's likely the whole region, plus the European Union, and NATO, would swing behind the USA.
China and Russia might provide limited support as nuisance value, but nothing on the scale of a 1950s intervention across the Yalu river.
At home, the nation would rally behind Trump and back his war measures and decisions to the hilt.
No offence intended to American dakka members, but years of studying American history and meeting a lot of Americans in my time has lead me to this conclusion:
You guys like a moral crusade, an us Vs. them situation, the Deputy facing the bad guys at high noon. IMO, it's built in the national American character. I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, I'm just saying that's the way I see it.
And we've seen it in the past with the civil war when the North rallied behind Lincoln, and WW1, and famously, when the USA demanded justice for Pearl Harbout in 1941...
IMO, any NK attack would provoke a similar national sentiment in the USA, and if NK is smart, they won't risk the wrath of the USA.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: It's not just military supremacy the USA would gain in the highly unlikely event of an NK attack, but political supremacy both home and abroad.
Who would put their neck on the line if San Diego, Honolulu, or San Fran got attacked by NK? Nobody.
It's likely the whole region, plus the European Union, and NATO, would swing behind the USA.
China and Russia might provide limited support as nuisance value, but nothing on the scale of a 1950s intervention across the Yalu river.
At home, the nation would rally behind Trump and back his war measures and decisions to the hilt.
No offence intended to American dakka members, but years of studying American history and meeting a lot of Americans in my time has lead me to this conclusion:
You guys like a moral crusade, an us Vs. them situation, the Deputy facing the bad guys at high noon. IMO, it's built in the national American character. I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, I'm just saying that's the way I see it.
And we've seen it in the past with the civil war when the North rallied behind Lincoln, and WW1, and famously, when the USA demanded justice for Pearl Harbout in 1941...
IMO, any NK attack would provoke a similar national sentiment in the USA, and if NK is smart, they won't risk the wrath of the USA.
It's an important lesson anyone should learn by now.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: It's not just military supremacy the USA would gain in the highly unlikely event of an NK attack, but political supremacy both home and abroad.
Who would put their neck on the line if San Diego, Honolulu, or San Fran got attacked by NK? Nobody.
It's likely the whole region, plus the European Union, and NATO, would swing behind the USA.
China and Russia might provide limited support as nuisance value, but nothing on the scale of a 1950s intervention across the Yalu river.
At home, the nation would rally behind Trump and back his war measures and decisions to the hilt.
No offence intended to American dakka members, but years of studying American history and meeting a lot of Americans in my time has lead me to this conclusion:
You guys like a moral crusade, an us Vs. them situation, the Deputy facing the bad guys at high noon. IMO, it's built in the national American character. I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, I'm just saying that's the way I see it.
And we've seen it in the past with the civil war when the North rallied behind Lincoln, and WW1, and famously, when the USA demanded justice for Pearl Harbout in 1941...
IMO, any NK attack would provoke a similar national sentiment in the USA, and if NK is smart, they won't risk the wrath of the USA.
It's an important lesson anyone should learn by now.
Don't fething poke us with your stick.
Yeah, they carry a rather large stick, and are not afraid to use it when poked.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
I'm honestly more worried about NK's civilians than anything else at the moment.
Let's face it: NK's military is a joke. It's equipment is ANCIENT (literally, their newest kit is what, early 90's?) And is fed more on hype than substance. No doubt hundreds of "volunteer" soldiers will rise up to meet the invaders, and we'll end up with a pretty twisted IRL Astra Militarum conscript + commissar spam situation...
But, on a more positive side, I'm hoping that when Kim Jong Mong gets a 500lbs bomb down his chimney as an early Christmas present courtesy of a B-52, that their quality of life will improve. Hopefully South Korea will be able to stabilize and reconnect the country (as several families were literally cut in half due to the split) and hopefully bring economic growth and just a better standard of living.
Obviously, this is the 'dream', but it might take a long time. Systematic brainwashing and a subjugation programme might be difficult to break, but I'm hopeful that within my lifetime, Korea is once again a united, peaceful country...
Freddy Kruger wrote: I'm honestly more worried about NK's civilians than anything else at the moment.
Let's face it: NK's military is a joke. It's equipment is ANCIENT (literally, their newest kit is what, early 90's?) And is fed more on hype than substance. No doubt hundreds of "volunteer" soldiers will rise up to meet the invaders, and we'll end up with a pretty twisted IRL Astra Militarum conscript + commissar spam situation...
But, on a more positive side, I'm hoping that when Kim Jong Mong gets a 500lbs bomb down his chimney as an early Christmas present courtesy of a B-52, that their quality of life will improve. Hopefully South Korea will be able to stabilize and reconnect the country (as several families were literally cut in half due to the split) and hopefully bring economic growth and just a better standard of living.
Obviously, this is the 'dream', but it might take a long time. Systematic brainwashing and a subjugation programme might be difficult to break, but I'm hopeful that within my lifetime, Korea is once again a united, peaceful country...
While I don't want to take away from your point, I was amused at you mocking early 90's technology, and then immediately referencing using a B-52 to hit them.
Freddy Kruger wrote: I'm honestly more worried about NK's civilians than anything else at the moment.
Let's face it: NK's military is a joke. It's equipment is ANCIENT (literally, their newest kit is what, early 90's?) And is fed more on hype than substance. No doubt hundreds of "volunteer" soldiers will rise up to meet the invaders, and we'll end up with a pretty twisted IRL Astra Militarum conscript + commissar spam situation...
But, on a more positive side, I'm hoping that when Kim Jong Mong gets a 500lbs bomb down his chimney as an early Christmas present courtesy of a B-52, that their quality of life will improve. Hopefully South Korea will be able to stabilize and reconnect the country (as several families were literally cut in half due to the split) and hopefully bring economic growth and just a better standard of living.
Obviously, this is the 'dream', but it might take a long time. Systematic brainwashing and a subjugation programme might be difficult to break, but I'm hopeful that within my lifetime, Korea is once again a united, peaceful country...
While I don't want to take away from your point, I was amused at you mocking early 90's technology, and then immediately referencing using a B-52 to hit them.
Give em some credit.
There tech may be outdated.
But a majority of that is well tested and with maitence and spares very reliable as older.
State art tech has kinks in it.
Older, worked out and well tested. A Ak47 is ancient... But when did you last hear there reliability claimed as bad.
Moder Nato rifles, sure more précise etc. Easier to jam.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
While I don't want to take away from your point, I was amused at you mocking early 90's technology, and then immediately referencing using a B-52 to hit them.
Whoops. Due to a syndrome I call "fat fingers" it seems that I hit both the 5 key and 2 key while trying to type 'B-2' which would have been a FAR more apt choice!
Also, while I take nothing away from the greatest assault rifle ever made, I was talking more about the users rather than the item in question. Anyone can actually fire a gun. Either or not they hit something at 100m+ is another thing entirely.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: No offence intended to American dakka members, but years of studying American history and meeting a lot of Americans in my time has lead me to this conclusion:
You guys like a moral crusade, an us Vs. them situation, the Deputy facing the bad guys at high noon. IMO, it's built in the national American character. I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, I'm just saying that's the way I see it.
And we've seen it in the past with the civil war when the North rallied behind Lincoln, and WW1, and famously, when the USA demanded justice for Pearl Harbout in 1941...
IMO, any NK attack would provoke a similar national sentiment in the USA, and if NK is smart, they won't risk the wrath of the USA.
I agree with your point that a NK attack on the US (or Japan or SK for that matter) would remove any diplomatic cover for NK, and also remove any argument for patience with NK.
But I'm a bit puzzled by your claim that the US is somehow unique in how it addresses an attack upon itself. Sure, the US rallies to the flag when attacked by an outside force, but is this not true for every country?
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jhe90 wrote: Give em some credit.
There tech may be outdated.
But a majority of that is well tested and with maitence and spares very reliable as older.
NK had chronic issues getting spare parts for its fleet of vehicles. A lot of its fleet has been cannibalized to provide spare parts to the remaining vehicles. There's a whole lot trucks that are still formally part of the NK military, but haven't moved in decades, and likely have had their interiors stripped for the other vehicles.
State art tech has kinks in it.
Older, worked out and well tested. A Ak47 is ancient... But when did you last hear there reliability claimed as bad.
Moder Nato rifles, sure more précise etc. Easier to jam.
Not really. The rifle these jamming stories most commonly refer to is the AR-15 and its many variants. Not only is this rifle far from 'state of the art', being 50 years old, the stories of its unreliability come primarily from its troubled original roll out, also 50 years ago. The rifle now is very reliable, mature tech.
Nor is it as simple as older tech being inherently more reliable. Motor vehicles 50 years ago had much higher maintenance requirements, far greater reliability problems, and much greater sensitivity to environmental factors like the cold than they do today. And that's if we're talking about new builds based on old, proven tech. In many cases NK is using the same actual vehicles given to them by the Soviets 60 or 70 years ago. Stuff that's been in use that long has reliability issues, no matter good and robust the design was back in the day. And Soviet vehicles were pretty crappy, even by the standards of the time, so...
All that said, this doesn't mean war against NK is automatically a walk over. It means we can take for granted that the US and allies will have the absolutely dominant military. That dominance will mean NK will be allowed minimal mobility, and certainly be allowed no conventional offensive ability. But overcoming the thousands of fixed position bunkers and extensive underground networks will be an absolute gak of a job, and while that work is underway NK will deliver a horrible payload on to SK civilian areas.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/31 02:44:28
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
sebster wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by your claim that the US is somehow unique in how it addresses an attack upon itself. Sure, the US rallies to the flag when attacked by an outside force, but is this not true for every country?
Rallies, ofc, but the USA is also one of the very few countries posed to strike back immediately over vast distances. If little Kim gets a real intercontinental missile in working order AND manages to hit a US target that's pretty much all he can do to the US itself. His chosen enemy can have carrier groups there within days, the marine corps in a few weeks and all the rest of their conventional power sometimes the same year. American politicians like to mention hos large NKs military budget is (as a percentage of their economy) but seldom remember to state it's about what some less than superpower NATO members spend in real cash for a little army and a couple dozen fighters...
The Empire 
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