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This is breaking my heart. Why do people withdraw a backing, if they funded it in the first place? In other words...why did they even back it? You lose nothing if it doesn't fund.

I'm not up an ALL the games out there, but this one really grabs my fancy. Good looking minis and a fun setting where undead fit perfectly, IMO. Plus dungeon crawl with minions....such fun!

That's how EB's work. Fence-sitters pledge immediately, expecting SG's to unlock, rather than wait until they unlock and pledge. This builds momentum. But, some potential backers will lose interest in a KS very quickly (I've seen posters complain about rewards within the first *two* days of a KS), and drop their pledge when the SG's don't unlock -- as well as other problems they may see that the KS has. The net results are pretty much the same, although the momentum makes the KS more exciting.

Myself, I think this KS was a missed opportunity to get new players into Darklands with a plastic starter set. That is, *prominently* tell new backers that the boardgame figures could be used for the miniatures game. Frex, they could have added enough components to the initial offering so that you could also play Darklands with the base pledge. (I know Massive Darkness got additional pledges with their Zombicide crossover kit.) Also, of course, the plastics were competing against Reaper (and CMON), which had more variety and more figures for the pledge.

Still, at 700+ backers, that's the most backers compared to their other (metal) KS. If the project doesn't fund, they should contact these backers and find out what did work with the project. I do know there's a way for creators to contact those who have dropped their pledges, and I think that would be valuable information as well.

Also remember an unsuccessful campaign doesn't mean the project can't happen - many relaunches have been much more successful than the original!

However, I think this project does need to address a few things and be more attractive to board gamers, to increase the market - let's be honest, most of us posting here would back anyway, but it's the people beyond that core group that the project needs to really work on bringing in.

I droped my pledge. Rules&minis didn't really catch my atention tbh, and there are plenty of KS coming soon which I plan to back(Joan of arc looks rly inteeresting, 7th continent, Batman, HATE etc.). There is only so much Money&time I have, so unless something is really good or catches my atention for some reason, I can't justify expense.
Best of luck with campaign!

 RiTides wrote:
Also remember an unsuccessful campaign doesn't mean the project can't happen - many relaunches have been much more successful than the original!

However, I think this project does need to address a few things and be more attractive to board gamers, to increase the market - let's be honest, most of us posting here would back anyway, but it's the people beyond that core group that the project needs to really work on bringing in.

Exactly!

Like it or not, true or not, people aren't backing this one and some are dropping out over the lack of perceived 'value' here.

They've been sort of conditioned by CMON "PVC" campaigns in terms of 'numbers of miniatures'.

Factor in that Mierce is a bit of an unknown here still, at least in this corner of the market, and, well, here we are.

 Alpharius wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Also remember an unsuccessful campaign doesn't mean the project can't happen - many relaunches have been much more successful than the original!

However, I think this project does need to address a few things and be more attractive to board gamers, to increase the market - let's be honest, most of us posting here would back anyway, but it's the people beyond that core group that the project needs to really work on bringing in.

Exactly!

Like it or not, true or not, people aren't backing this one and some are dropping out over the lack of perceived 'value' here.

They've been sort of conditioned by CMON "PVC" campaigns in terms of 'numbers of miniatures'.

Factor in that Mierce is a bit of an unknown here still, at least in this corner of the market, and, well, here we are.

Why shouldn't people look for the value? This is an expensive hobby, and I (like others) are not rolling in money to spend on it.

Yeah, doing the whole "these would cost over $785 in resin" thing isn't the same when you're selling PVC - especially with many of them in only 1 pose (2 with SGs). Even "DUST PVC" which is pretty good isn't the same as resin or metal. Add to that an 18(+, because Kickstarter) month weight for the models and it's that much less appealing.

Did Mierce ever deliver on that Art Book? Wasn't that initially due about 3 years and 15 kickstarter campaigns ago? That hardly bodes well for a boxed game being even vaguely on time.

A messy rulebook WIP coming out after about a week doesn't especially sell it to the BG crowd, who should be a decent focus of any boardgame. (who'd's thunk it?)

J0kerr2017 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Also remember an unsuccessful campaign doesn't mean the project can't happen - many relaunches have been much more successful than the original!

However, I think this project does need to address a few things and be more attractive to board gamers, to increase the market - let's be honest, most of us posting here would back anyway, but it's the people beyond that core group that the project needs to really work on bringing in.

Exactly!

Like it or not, true or not, people aren't backing this one and some are dropping out over the lack of perceived 'value' here.

They've been sort of conditioned by CMON "PVC" campaigns in terms of 'numbers of miniatures'.

Factor in that Mierce is a bit of an unknown here still, at least in this corner of the market, and, well, here we are.

Why shouldn't people look for the value? This is an expensive hobby, and I (like others) are not rolling in money to spend on it.

Did someone say you shouldn't?

The point I was trying to make is that (clearly) different people have different definitions of that, and that's what drives - or doesn't drive - many campaigns.

I dunno.. it's easy to throw shade at CMoN (and they defenitely deserve some) but pretending that all of these places aren't just pumping Ludo or another chinese company for dirt cheap minis is not being honest about what we're talking about. Privateer Press with their boardgames, Reaper Bones, the D&D Boardgames, Monolith's games, Megacon games with Myth and Mercs, Greebo, Greenbrier, etc etc.(seriously etc.. there's so many more examples). It's no longer the exception to offer a gak load of miniatures in a game.. The bar got raised on what is a standard and Mierce might be too mired in boutique thinking to fully understand this.
That said, mini count wasn't my problem with this. The whole thing was trite. I didn't look at anything from the core of this and go "man, I just don't have enough of that in my life". By comparison, I just saw an update about Monolith's Pantheon and am kicking myself for missing that one. I still have to crack open Sword and Sorcery and Conan... and they were also loaded with things that made me stop.

Mierce has the catalog. I don't know anything about their games or any of that but they need to communicate with others in the industry and figure out how to boost their value without screwing the pooch. The guy they had posting here seemed standoffish though so I don't know that I'll hold my breath on that front. They also might want to find a way to add variety. Look at Heroquest as an example.. You don't really just fight one type of creature. I have zero desire to play a game where I beat up skeletons for the length of a campaign to be rewarded with getting to fight a giant bug. There's no scenario where that plays out in my mind as some epic tale. If you had to fight through some skeletons, some lizardmen, some beastmen.. only to battle a massive.. demon/dragon/chimera/anything other than a freaking bug... HEY.. I'm in! I expect others probably see it that way too.

(post running long now.. geez). I've backed quite a few games now.. and I didn't actually realize it until I typed the above.. but the ones I've selected did generally have loads of variety.. or at least SOME variety.. and the ones I've played and keep playing have had the most.

Ugh.

The backsliding on the campaign is starting to pick up...momentum?

It is approaching 'troubling' territory.

What has less of a stink attached to it?

A failed campaign that goes to the end, or a canceled one, before the end?

I think either can be effective - all depends on the quality of the relaunch. You don't have to look any farther than the Shieldmaidens campaign by Shieldwolf to see one that did much better the second time around . I'll be watching to see what Mierce has in store...

 Alpharius wrote:
Ugh.

The backsliding on the campaign is starting to pick up...momentum?

It is approaching 'troubling' territory.

What has less of a stink attached to it?

A failed campaign that goes to the end, or a canceled one, before the end?

IMO it's never the act of riding it out or canceling, it's about the creator's willingness to own it and address concerns with a plan forward through clear communication.
I am puzzled about people pulling out though. If it's not going to take off then just let it ride out. At least that way the funding level at time of death doesn't look as abysmal for the relaunch. Which.. is probably a good reason to cancel.. I dunno.

 MLaw wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Ugh.

The backsliding on the campaign is starting to pick up...momentum?

It is approaching 'troubling' territory.

What has less of a stink attached to it?

A failed campaign that goes to the end, or a canceled one, before the end?

IMO it's never the act of riding it out or canceling, it's about the creator's willingness to own it and address concerns with a plan forward through clear communication.
I am puzzled about people pulling out though. If it's not going to take off then just let it ride out. At least that way the funding level at time of death doesn't look as abysmal for the relaunch. Which.. is probably a good reason to cancel.. I dunno.

I agree with MLaw.

So, assuming the worst and preparing; where is a good place to keep tabs on upcoming KS projects, other than the creator's webpage? Is there some site that consolidates upcoming projects (even if some are merely rumors)?

I'd say the dedicated Mierce news thread on the biggest wargaming forum on the planet is probably an ok bet!

The offer in terms of minis are dull as ditchwater. Give me some trolls, woolly rhino guys, toothy no face guy or some of the other really cool minis they make in pvc and I'd be backing this to the hilt. As it is they're offering some rather dull heroes, some skeletons that won't look as nice irl and whose weapons will all be too thin and some bugs. Meh.

Oooff... It's sad to see the KS slow down like this.


I wish Mierce would put more into advertising, they try to do more than a few tweets, podcasts, and relying on fans to spread the word, otherwise they're not bringing in any new people. On top of that, there is a whole different skew of rules when you're dealing with larger groups, you need to have people dedicated to answering questions and dealing with the community at all times. Rob does a phenomenal job with the groups which back their normal KS, but we're at about 3 times as many people now, and we're not even half funded.

I think the products are solid, and the videos are a HUGE improvement. They have nice representations of what's in the game, and personally, I don't mind that the rules are still being tweaked. However, I think the radio silence over the weekend was a mistake ( especially when people were very happy with the amazing amount of attention we got when the campaign started). And I think the Boardgame fans are a very different crowd then what Mierce is used to dealing with. When you get so many more people participating, we've seen a lot of great new people experience the amazing stuff Mierce makes, but there's plenty of brand new whiners as well.

I think they shouldn't quit, and should keep going, but really reach out and try and bring in new people. Make that facebook page/group (even though Rob hates facebook ). Drop some cash on advertising on BoW, Dakka, and TGN (I'm going to guess there's a certain amount to time you have to do this before a project, so that might be moot), really watch the KS comments, and any forum posts, so you can jump in and answer any questions/concerns people have ASAP.

Azreal13 wrote:I'd say the dedicated Mierce news thread on the biggest wargaming forum on the planet is probably an ok bet!

Roger that, buddy

Looks like this would be that:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/688176.page

skullking wrote:Oooff... It's sad to see the KS slow down like this.


I wish Mierce would put more into advertising, they try to do more than a few tweets, podcasts, and relying on fans to spread the word, otherwise they're not bringing in any new people. On top of that, there is a whole different skew of rules when you're dealing with larger groups, you need to have people dedicated to answering questions and dealing with the community at all times. Rob does a phenomenal job with the groups which back their normal KS, but we're at about 3 times as many people now, and we're not even half funded.

I think the products are solid, and the videos are a HUGE improvement. They have nice representations of what's in the game, and personally, I don't mind that the rules are still being tweaked. However, I think the radio silence over the weekend was a mistake ( especially when people were very happy with the amazing amount of attention we got when the campaign started). And I think the Boardgame fans are a very different crowd then what Mierce is used to dealing with. When you get so many more people participating, we've seen a lot of great new people experience the amazing stuff Mierce makes, but there's plenty of brand new whiners as well.

I think they shouldn't quit, and should keep going, but really reach out and try and bring in new people. Make that facebook page/group (even though Rob hates facebook ). Drop some cash on advertising on BoW, Dakka, and TGN (I'm going to guess there's a certain amount to time you have to do this before a project, so that might be moot), really watch the KS comments, and any forum posts, so you can jump in and answer any questions/concerns people have ASAP.

I thought I'd read somewhere there are companies dedicated to helping KS projects succeed vis-a-vis what you are mentioning above. Wonder how much Mierce would benefit from something like that versus the cost? I would love for the next iteration of this to succeed, as it really looks bad for this one. But, I'm still keeping my pledge in there.

 Jeegen wrote:
I thought I'd read somewhere there are companies dedicated to helping KS projects succeed vis-a-vis what you are mentioning above. Wonder how much Mierce would benefit from something like that versus the cost? I would love for the next iteration of this to succeed, as it really looks bad for this one. But, I'm still keeping my pledge in there.

From the KS Best Practices FB group, none whatsoever. https://www.facebook.com/groups/KickstarterBestPractices/

The group is run by James Mathe, who wrote various articles on KS : http://www.jamesmathe.com/

Speaking of KS cancellations, here's a video to KS creators that just appeared in the Best Practices group. The video also analyzes the types of backers. : https://youtu.be/fQOQ0jrTcWA

Even though CMON's KS are $120+, at $100, boardgamers and non-loyal backers are going to expect CMON-levels of miniatures and presentation. You're also going to need unconventional sculpts to capture non-loyal attention. I certainly see Mierce has many unusual miniatures, yet, as said, all this boardgame has are skeletons and spiders.

Cancelled

However, I do need to recoup some monies that have been spent on the project - not least the videos and the artwork; so I will be running a sale on the webstore which I hope you guys will take part in.
What I *may* do is a short project on here, too, for a few things I have in my locker - i.e., concepts I have and not used. What I'd like to know is, if I introduce more new miniatures, such as the Ghuls, Dwimor and so forth, plus older ones like the Felljötunn, would you guys go for that?
Darkholds is not likely to be re-launched in 2017, please note. You'd be looking at Jan/Feb for that.

Shame :\
It never ticked for me any marks. It was just one of way too many dungeon crawlers.

I never quite understood the mentality of pulling your pledge before the last 24 hours or so.

Agreed - the only explanation that 'works' is that you've decided you don't want to back it at all anymore, for whatever reason.

Otherwise, yeah, let it ride!

Heh -
Darkholds canceled with more funding than Maelstrom's Edge had!

While I love Dungeon Crawls, especially ones with undead, this was a pretty weak offering with narrow breadth of diversity. Especially for the base pledge amount.
Creators have gotten more savvy and they launch much more polished projects or, at least, have a clear direction and strategy to maintain funding growth.
I understand Mierce's "real" funding goal but, given the base pledge amount, the light content, the lack of rules and gameplay vids at launch, the few "more of the same" add-ons and out-of-reach stretch goals this project had a lot stacked against it.
That's not to say I'm not disappointed to see it cancelled. But it's for the best and I'll definitely be back when they relaunch a more refined campaign.

It's great that they were able to get the funding as high as they did but I think their goal was just way too high for a KS campaign that's not a major brand like CMON. Even though it was probably a pretty realistic goal, big boxed games are hella expensive to produce especially when you start adding in really high quality components.

I think they need to keep working, revise things and also make it a lot more unique. If you want a new dungeon crawler game these days, it's gotta be better than what we already have, and we have a lot now. They also should try and scale things back and find a way to cut their funding goal in half.. have less components, or board tiles that aren't as thick, and fewer copies of the same minis.. then add those things back in as upgrades for stretch goals. So starting with a lower but also realistic funding goal will give em a better chance for success, and they can add more bells and whistles later.. if newcomers come and see the campaign already funded, they'll be more likely to back and keep things moving forward.

He mentioned a website sale in the comments, but I don't see it on their homepage. Was it sent out in their email newsletter?

Yeah, 25% off RRP with the code, er.. hang on..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SUMMER-2017

Excellent, thanks

This one's dead now - but would you believe there's ANOTHER Mierce KS campaign active - right now?!?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/688176.page#8600742