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 Lance845 wrote:
No it's not. Assembled models are needed to make proper measurements to follow the rules of the game. Paint isn't.

Define "proper measurements" according to GW's rules. Last time I checked GW doesn't specify any particular configuration for a model, so measuring LOS/distance to a set of space marine legs on a base representing a "crisis suit" is 100% acceptable. It just means that the model will be very small and hard to draw LOS to. So it sure sounds like you're gatekeeping people by expecting them to comply with your personal opinions about "proper measurements".

False equivalency. Paint is none of the examples you gave. Clocks prevent forms of cheating like attempting to run out the clock on limited time matches. Paint does nothing and prevents nothing.

Cheating according to what rules? Your personal gatekeeping policy about what strategies are permitted? Are you not aware of the anti-gatekeeping arguments that have been made against chess clocks by people who feel that they unfairly exclude horde players and people who have trouble playing at a fast pace? It sure sounds like you're ok with gatekeeping as long as you feel that the benefits of doing so are worth it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
At no point, on any level, do I think you or anyone else should feel entitled to discourage anyone for playing with their toy soldiers how they see fit.

So you're fine with people making a Nurgle army by covering the models in actual plague filth and bringing it to a game? Or did you mean to say "no point, on any level, except the level where I think there should be limits"? Because literally "no limits at all" is a pretty extreme position to hold and I don't think anyone genuinely agrees with it.

Good straw man idiotic arguments again.

How about this one instead. If someone brings a totally converted from 3rd party models nurgle army that fits roughly the right bases and roughly the right dimensions then I am 100% happy to play their 100% not GW army.
Again, having the models dimensions being within the range of size and scope is needed to play the game. Paint isn't. Why don't you try to find some argument for how paint is actually needed to play?

Oh I know why. There are none.

 Lance845 wrote:
Good straw man idiotic arguments again.

How about this one instead. If someone brings a totally converted from 3rd party models nurgle army that fits roughly the right bases and roughly the right dimensions then I am 100% happy to play their 100% not GW army.
Again, having the models dimensions being within the range of size and scope is needed to play the game. Paint isn't. Why don't you try to find some argument for how paint is actually needed to play?

Oh I know why. There are none.

It's not a straw man at all. You're the one who said "no point, on any level" as an absolute statement. If you don't like the fact that "no point, on any level" means what it says you are free to amend your policy to "people should not be discouraged for reasons that I don't agree with" and drop the idea that you have some universal no-discouragement policy. Or you can deal with the fact that an absolute no-discouragement policy includes permitting the plague filth army.

 Stormatious wrote:
No ones telling any one what they have to do.

You keep saying this but I can keep quoting you and Peregrine for saying exactly that.

In a casual situation you can do what you want, its all about the re enforcing the general core idea of what is generally and widly preferred and traditional done.

I don't give a single quantum of a gak about your idea of tradition, generally, wildly, or mostly, or any other words you use to imply that a majority agrees with you even though you have no data to support that.

So when people turn up to gw shops or what ever they come with painted models, generally most people dont want them flooded with greys, you can see that with my other threads on this subject that this is true.

I can see that the same few people feel that way and that others disagree. But I don't actually care what you think when your position is one of elitism.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Good straw man idiotic arguments again.

How about this one instead. If someone brings a totally converted from 3rd party models nurgle army that fits roughly the right bases and roughly the right dimensions then I am 100% happy to play their 100% not GW army.
Again, having the models dimensions being within the range of size and scope is needed to play the game. Paint isn't. Why don't you try to find some argument for how paint is actually needed to play?

Oh I know why. There are none.

It's not a straw man at all. You're the one who said "no point, on any level" as an absolute statement. If you don't like the fact that "no point, on any level" means what it says you are free to amend your policy to "people should not be discouraged for reasons that I don't agree with" and drop the idea that you have some universal no-discouragement policy. Or you can deal with the fact that an absolute no-discouragement policy includes permitting the plague filth army.

I will respond to you again when you have something to say of value.

Yes thats true, with out highly discouraging greys its factual to say that opens up the possibility of a great influx of people who come in and never paint only using greys because people are giving so much leniency to the idea that you can do what you want in the general sense of what war gaming is about ( obviously you can do what you want casual y )


@LANCE please quote me if you don't mind, because you are wrong IN MY OPINION i didn't say that.

Please just quote me saying that.

IOW, rather than admit that you were wrong to state "no discouragement, period" as an absolute rule and that you and I both favor discouraging objectionable behavior and only disagree on what particular things should be discouraged you're going to hide behind "LOOK AT ME I'M IGNORING YOU". That's your right, but it's the last resort of someone who has utterly lost the argument.

 Stormatious wrote:


@LANCE please quote me if you don't mind, because you are wrong IN MY OPINION i didn't say that.

Please just quote me saying that.

We need a revolution. There needs to be massive discouragement to any one who thinks it is acceptable to bring a non painted mini to a battlefield in this hobby. Tradition needs to be re enforced. GW is guilty of encouraging people to just play with greys because we all know why, let me not bother explaining. So if you think this is mean because you for various reasons are unable to paint, choose another hobby. You don't see racing car drivers turning up with no wheels and just a steering wheel, and yes ill make the comparison between race cars and war gaming because i could make the comparison with almost any other hobby ( racing is a hobby ).

And since when did elitism become such a bad thing? Why is "we only want people who are willing to invest a minimum of effort into having an enjoyable game experience" a bad thing, and why is maximizing member count the most important goal for a community? Why should we seek to retain all these people who don't give a about quality and insist on putting the absolute strict-RAW minimum effort into their armies? If they're so apathetic towards the game that they can't even bother to paint their models to a basic tabletop standard then why do you feel that their presence is so valuable?

 Lance845 wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:


@LANCE please quote me if you don't mind, because you are wrong IN MY OPINION i didn't say that.

Please just quote me saying that.

We need a revolution. There needs to be massive discouragement to any one who thinks it is acceptable to bring a non painted mini to a battlefield in this hobby. Tradition needs to be re enforced. GW is guilty of encouraging people to just play with greys because we all know why, let me not bother explaining. So if you think this is mean because you for various reasons are unable to paint, choose another hobby. You don't see racing car drivers turning up with no wheels and just a steering wheel, and yes ill make the comparison between race cars and war gaming because i could make the comparison with almost any other hobby ( racing is a hobby ).

Sorry mate, don't understand how that is me telling some one what they have to do.

Merely suggestions. And strong discouragement.

 Peregrine wrote:
And since when did elitism become such a bad thing? Why is "we only want people who are willing to invest a minimum of effort into having an enjoyable game experience" a bad thing, and why is maximizing member count the most important goal for a community? Why should we seek to retain all these people who don't give a about quality and insist on putting the absolute strict-RAW minimum effort into their armies? If they're so apathetic towards the game that they can't even bother to paint their models to a basic tabletop standard then why do you feel that their presence is so valuable?

Because the hobby does not equal the game. The game is only a single facet of the hobby. Just like painting is not the hobby. Only a single facet. The more people in the hobby the more chances we have to encourage those people to branch out into any other facet of the hobby. And elitist pricks keep people out. We all loose out on pure opportunity because you exist. Again, get out. You're the worst element of the whole community. We all pay for the chip on your shoulder. We would all be better off with out you. You are going to stay anyway, and I can't stop you. But if anyone needs discouragement and rules put in place against them it's you and those like you.

 Peregrine wrote:
And since when did elitism become such a bad thing? Why is "we only want people who are willing to invest a minimum of effort into having an enjoyable game experience" a bad thing, and why is maximizing member count the most important goal for a community? Why should we seek to retain all these people who don't give a about quality and insist on putting the absolute strict-RAW minimum effort into their armies? If they're so apathetic towards the game that they can't even bother to paint their models to a basic tabletop standard then why do you feel that their presence is so valuable?

Well, the more people playing means the more enjoyment can be spread and bring people together. Turning someone away can only serve to keep the number of people playing it small. If anything, a rule that's says you can't play games here is only going to hurt the community and business. I for one would discourage my friends from using a venue that is more about discouraging people than having fun. In fact, that's what happens with MtG. I can't tell you how many times of heard people refuse to go to a certain shop because of their attitude towards casual players or the elitist mindset of the players who go there.

 Stormatious wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:


@LANCE please quote me if you don't mind, because you are wrong IN MY OPINION i didn't say that.

Please just quote me saying that.

We need a revolution. There needs to be massive discouragement to any one who thinks it is acceptable to bring a non painted mini to a battlefield in this hobby. Tradition needs to be re enforced. GW is guilty of encouraging people to just play with greys because we all know why, let me not bother explaining. So if you think this is mean because you for various reasons are unable to paint, choose another hobby. You don't see racing car drivers turning up with no wheels and just a steering wheel, and yes ill make the comparison between race cars and war gaming because i could make the comparison with almost any other hobby ( racing is a hobby ).

Sorry mate, don't understand how that is me telling some one what they have to do.

Merely suggestions.

I am beginning to think English is not your first language. You don't have a great grasp of its meaning. Thats not trying to be insulting. No problems if it's not. Totally understandable. But you are having some massive problems with your sentences.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
At no point, on any level, do I think you or anyone else should feel entitled to discourage anyone for playing with their toy soldiers how they see fit.

So you're fine with people making a Nurgle army by covering the models in actual plague filth and bringing it to a game? Or did you mean to say "no point, on any level, except the level where I think there should be limits"? Because literally "no limits at all" is a pretty extreme position to hold and I don't think anyone genuinely agrees with it.

Good straw man idiotic arguments again.

How about this one instead. If someone brings a totally converted from 3rd party models nurgle army that fits roughly the right bases and roughly the right dimensions then I am 100% happy to play their 100% not GW army.
Again, having the models dimensions being within the range of size and scope is needed to play the game. Paint isn't. Why don't you try to find some argument for how paint is actually needed to play?

Oh I know why. There are none.

Eyes is one of our sensory organs, one we use quite often. colors differentiate marine chapters, squads for in game purposes. Ask yourself this, do you mostly enjoy watching film in black & white or in color?

 Lance845 wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:


@LANCE please quote me if you don't mind, because you are wrong IN MY OPINION i didn't say that.

Please just quote me saying that.

We need a revolution. There needs to be massive discouragement to any one who thinks it is acceptable to bring a non painted mini to a battlefield in this hobby. Tradition needs to be re enforced. GW is guilty of encouraging people to just play with greys because we all know why, let me not bother explaining. So if you think this is mean because you for various reasons are unable to paint, choose another hobby. You don't see racing car drivers turning up with no wheels and just a steering wheel, and yes ill make the comparison between race cars and war gaming because i could make the comparison with almost any other hobby ( racing is a hobby ).

Sorry mate, don't understand how that is me telling some one what they have to do.

Merely suggestions.

I am beginning to think English is not your first language. You don't have a great grasp of its meaning. Thats not trying to be insulting. No problems if it's not. Totally understandable. But you are having some massive problems with your sentences.

Lol how is what i said telling someone what they have to do seriously what the heck?

Seems like civility has died again and thus this thread is done.