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I've been wondering about hellhounds with an inferno cannon and multi melta. Traditionally I wouldn't mix and match roles (infantry hunter vs tank hunter) but I'm thinking with split fire in 8th/9th, this set up of hellhound could be a good allrounder for the cost? Especially when the new melta rules come into play. Perhaps add track guards and an augur array to give you a one-off reroll for the multi melta. This would come to 140 pts, and could handle a variety of threats. Maybe add a storm bolter. I'd run it as Vostroyan I think.

Could these be used decently to push up the board onto objectives?

Hey all.

Have had a gaurd army for about a year now, but unfortunately no one around to play with. So all I do is paint and theory craft.

My most recent deliberation has been what to do with my unopened baneblade box. I have read some discussion over potential options in this thread, and I know it was heavily discussed in 8th, but now we are in 9th and I want to know what's best.

Originally, I had intended to buy it for a shadowsword, as some serious anti tank firepower, but now Im thinking it might just be overkill, especially at almost 500 points.

Next thought was classic stormlord with friends, loaded up with bullgryn or shooterboys. Now Im considering that the Bullgryns might be survivable on their own, and that the stormlord would just be target fired down making it the world's most expensive chimera. Although the D2 gun isnt terrible against marines if it survives...

So then we have the smattering of other baneblade varients. I liked the comment about the Banehammer, being able to slow a potential deathball CC unit seems like an answer to a potential AM weakness, but again this is coming at a steep (not as steep as the other varients) point cost. And in terms of damage the main cannon is only a little bit better hammer of sunderance.

Classic baneblade? I guess decent firepower overall, but still faults out at being easier to kill than 2 LRs.

I just want to field a centerpiece model that does something impactful before it gets blown up. If I ever get to play again...

Keep in mind that you now can deepstrike literally anything. It's not cheap, as it costs additional 3 CP but you can get one round of undisturbed shooting guaranteed.

IF the enemy also brings a titanic unit, one round of shooting can be enough for a shadowsword to bring back its points, especially with reroll or Vostroyas +1to hit buff.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Hey all.

Have had a gaurd army for about a year now, but unfortunately no one around to play with. So all I do is paint and theory craft.

My most recent deliberation has been what to do with my unopened baneblade box. I have read some discussion over potential options in this thread, and I know it was heavily discussed in 8th, but now we are in 9th and I want to know what's best.

Originally, I had intended to buy it for a shadowsword, as some serious anti tank firepower, but now Im thinking it might just be overkill, especially at almost 500 points.

Next thought was classic stormlord with friends, loaded up with bullgryn or shooterboys. Now Im considering that the Bullgryns might be survivable on their own, and that the stormlord would just be target fired down making it the world's most expensive chimera. Although the D2 gun isnt terrible against marines if it survives...

So then we have the smattering of other baneblade varients. I liked the comment about the Banehammer, being able to slow a potential deathball CC unit seems like an answer to a potential AM weakness, but again this is coming at a steep (not as steep as the other varients) point cost. And in terms of damage the main cannon is only a little bit better hammer of sunderance.

Classic baneblade? I guess decent firepower overall, but still faults out at being easier to kill than 2 LRs.

I just want to field a centerpiece model that does something impactful before it gets blown up. If I ever get to play again...

I have a Shadowsword [though not new, I've had it since before they were allowed in normal games], but mostly because a gigantic Stug is cool.

That said, after one gets past the existing reservations about the high cost in points and CP, lack of survivability, and the fact that its literally a quarter of your army. I think if you're set on using one:
Hellhammer makes good use of all of the features of it, and the regular Baneblade is about the same.
Shadowsword brings something special to the table you won't get with massed other things.
Doomhammer/Banehammer/Stormlord are basically fat Chimerae, I'd probably take a Chimera first.
Banesword and Stormsword are worse than the Shadowsword/Baneblade/Hellhammer

Can anyone confirm whether the custom regimental traits from Greater Good removes the old ability to copy/paste any of the codex doctrines - particulary stormtroopers - when creating a custom regiment? or is that still a thing?

Given the number of +1 to hit strats that now exist for guard, stormtrooper doctrine on a custom regiment could be quite strong, particularly on a full payload/direct onslaught manticore (should be average 100%-ish accurate). A tempestus stormtrooper battalion + regimental stormtrooper spearhead seems like it could work quite well.

Also, I don't know if 9th changes this yet, but the "Lord" series of tanks, Storm Lord etc, are all open topped transports. Meaning you can squat 3 packs of mortars in there or 3 squads of snipers/melta/plasma command squads, and besides being able to shoot out, they are completely unable to be attacked. The Lord Series is a great way to drop a ton of FU on your opponent's doorstep.They also usually have much shorter ranged weapons. So feel free to go heavy flamer sponson heavy, pick the Storm lord, load it with three squads of Bullgryns and a priest, and park it on the middle of the field. Rinse repeat.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
My most recent deliberation has been what to do with my unopened baneblade box. I have read some discussion over potential options in this thread, and I know it was heavily discussed in 8th, but now we are in 9th and I want to know what's best.

Octoblade. Why make one, when you can have all 8?

It's fairly easy to make an Octoblade, it just takes more time, but it looks like you'd have that time. Buy some neodymium magnets, and you'll be able to switch between variants whenever you like.

Insularum wrote:
Can anyone confirm whether the custom regimental traits from Greater Good removes the old ability to copy/paste any of the codex doctrines - particulary stormtroopers - when creating a custom regiment? or is that still a thing?

Given the number of +1 to hit strats that now exist for guard, stormtrooper doctrine on a custom regiment could be quite strong, particularly on a full payload/direct onslaught manticore (should be average 100%-ish accurate). A tempestus stormtrooper battalion + regimental stormtrooper spearhead seems like it could work quite well.

I don't see why not, nothing seems to prevent you from taking Stormtroopers as a regimental doctrine for a custom regiment.

The PA book has a section on custom regiments -- the "pick two things" section. So its sort of an odd duck, because back in astra codex days in 8, you had to point to an existing regiment as the "style" of any custom. The question he asks is, does the new style suppliment or supplant the old style of custom doctrines?

I don't think it makes the regiment better though. Rerolling shot count (catachan or custom modern regimental "gunnery experts" gives you likely better shots fired, and 1/2 of the several you pick up (you reroll the lowest die, of course) hit, rather than 1/7th the fewer shots.

Imagine you roll 3 on one manticore and 6 on the other. Stormtroopers might get might get a 6 or even two out of that, but still at bs 4 or bs3, so you end up with 2 more shots, probably 1 more hit. total of like, maybe 6 hits.
A catachan player migth be rerolling two 1's .. very likely adding a larger number of shots to the pool of hit dice, and those shots all hit still 67 or 50 percent of the time. So perhaps 8 or 9 hits over the two manticores... or at least, consistantly not firing one manticore with a REALLY low shot count, from the guided rerolling of the lowest die.
A cadian player with +1 to hit over both manticores (interlocked fields of fire) from some other source having wounded a target, can give you similar results, picking up an extra hit on the second manticore's six shots. But if the cadians area also shooting a basilisk and leman russ...

Dukeofstuff wrote:
The PA book has a section on custom regiments -- the "pick two things" section. So its sort of an odd duck, because back in astra codex days in 8, you had to point to an existing regiment as the "style" of any custom. The question he asks is, does the new style suppliment or supplant the old style of custom doctrines?

I don't think it makes the regiment better though. Rerolling shot count (catachan or custom modern regimental "gunnery experts" gives you likely better shots fired, and 1/2 of the several you pick up (you reroll the lowest die, of course) hit, rather than 1/7th the fewer shots.

Imagine you roll 3 on one manticore and 6 on the other. Stormtroopers might get might get a 6 or even two out of that, but still at bs 4 or bs3, so you end up with 2 more shots, probably 1 more hit. total of like, maybe 6 hits.
A catachan player migth be rerolling two 1's .. very likely adding a larger number of shots to the pool of hit dice, and those shots all hit still 67 or 50 percent of the time. So perhaps 8 or 9 hits over the two manticores... or at least, consistantly not firing one manticore with a REALLY low shot count, from the guided rerolling of the lowest die.
A cadian player with +1 to hit over both manticores (interlocked fields of fire) from some other source having wounded a target, can give you similar results, picking up an extra hit on the second manticore's six shots. But if the cadians area also shooting a basilisk and leman russ...

Huh?

If you chose a build-your-own-Regimental-Doctrine, you are not Cadian, Catachan, etc. and do not get their doctrine, order, relic, stratagem, or any characters.

Kcalehc wrote:

Insularum wrote:
Can anyone confirm whether the custom regimental traits from Greater Good removes the old ability to copy/paste any of the codex doctrines - particulary stormtroopers - when creating a custom regiment? or is that still a thing?

Given the number of +1 to hit strats that now exist for guard, stormtrooper doctrine on a custom regiment could be quite strong, particularly on a full payload/direct onslaught manticore (should be average 100%-ish accurate). A tempestus stormtrooper battalion + regimental stormtrooper spearhead seems like it could work quite well.

I don't see why not, nothing seems to prevent you from taking Stormtroopers as a regimental doctrine for a custom regiment.

Dukeofstuff wrote:The PA book has a section on custom regiments -- the "pick two things" section. So its sort of an odd duck, because back in astra codex days in 8, you had to point to an existing regiment as the "style" of any custom. The question he asks is, does the new style suppliment or supplant the old style of custom doctrines?

I don't think it makes the regiment better though. Rerolling shot count (catachan or custom modern regimental "gunnery experts" gives you likely better shots fired, and 1/2 of the several you pick up (you reroll the lowest die, of course) hit, rather than 1/7th the fewer shots.

Imagine you roll 3 on one manticore and 6 on the other. Stormtroopers might get might get a 6 or even two out of that, but still at bs 4 or bs3, so you end up with 2 more shots, probably 1 more hit. total of like, maybe 6 hits.
A catachan player migth be rerolling two 1's .. very likely adding a larger number of shots to the pool of hit dice, and those shots all hit still 67 or 50 percent of the time. So perhaps 8 or 9 hits over the two manticores... or at least, consistantly not firing one manticore with a REALLY low shot count, from the guided rerolling of the lowest die.
A cadian player with +1 to hit over both manticores (interlocked fields of fire) from some other source having wounded a target, can give you similar results, picking up an extra hit on the second manticore's six shots. But if the cadians area also shooting a basilisk and leman russ...

Thanks for the replies - really appreciated

What I've had in mind for a while was a mainly scion force (best plastic guardsmen kit available), but allying in regimental units that naturally have bs3+ (i.e. tank commanders), who also happen to be running stormtroopers doctrine and modelled with scion bodies manning pintle weapons etc to make it kind of thematic. Since PA, the number of strats that can give +1 to hit has kind of expanded the list of potential units that shoot with scion accuracy.

Also, re the manticore - with a big list of caveats (one tank using direct onslaught, within 60", line of sight etc), stormtroopers would slightly outdo both cadian/catachan on the main weapon, but also that I assume stormtroopers would proc on HKM's also which would also seem to benefit from full payload so could be quite fun. As I would be intentionally not taking anything that really benefits from being cadian/catachan I think in this niche stormtroopers would be solidly not-terrible...

This is a very WIP idea of what I'm considering, all subject to change if weapon stats keep on moving around:

Quick insight:

You are gonna burn through CP man, but great list!

1. Why Vox? If your prime is outside of the range of command you are leaving them exposed and very vulnerable. Don't. Just take double plas and be done with it.

2. Taurox Prime - This won't live long enough to earn it's points back, and if youre inserting by land why take Scions at all? AIRBORNE, NO LEGS ALLOWED.

3. Orgryns are just weaker Bullgryns. Take the Bulls with mauls and shields and call it good.

4. Lascannons look fun, but you won't hit with them for crap, and they can't take orders. Just go mortars or HBs. Or go SWTs with meltas/plas.

5. Drop the Rox and grab a Valk. It'll last longer and you can pinpoint drop your squads for free.

I note that to outdo catachan or cadian, you would need an ability to fire BOTH of the two manticores that I think many people want now, full payload, AND +1, but the strat only lets one of them do that with line of sight.

However.
I have a thought I need to mull over that might actually make the ST doctrine work after all.
stormtrooper doctrine.
The idea is to maximize rerolling to fish for extra firepoiwer in the firepower. Now the +1 to hit manticore can reroll its shot with the hunterkiller and potentially smack someone with JUST that missle for 12 wounds! The rest, is just the cheapest per unit plasma dakka I could think of.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
I note that to outdo catachan or cadian, you would need an ability to fire BOTH of the two manticores that I think many people want now, full payload, AND +1, but the strat only lets one of them do that with line of sight.

However.
I have a thought I need to mull over that might actually make the ST doctrine work after all.
stormtrooper doctrine.

Spoiler:

because, well, they are "stormtrooper grenadiers" actually!
mechanized stormtrooper spearhead
marshall
tank commander with demolisher and plasma cannon
2 squads 5 stormtrooper grenadiers with 2 plasma each
2 4 man dkok command squads with 2 plasma each
3 conquerer battle cannon mars pattern leman russ with coaxial heavy stubber and 48 inch range main gun that rerolls every miss, and plasma cannon, each
manticore with full payload and hunter killer missle and heavy bolter and augur array
other manticore with full payload and hunter killer missle and heavy bolter and augur array

The idea is to maximize rerolling to fish for extra firepoiwer in the firepower. Now the +1 to hit manticore can reroll its shot with the hunterkiller and potentially smack someone with JUST that missle for 12 wounds! The rest, is just the cheapest per unit plasma dakka I could think of.

If you're DKoK you have to be the DKoK doctrine, unless there's a specific clause on Grenadiers.

Also, storm troopers only applies of Tempestas Militarum units, unless there's a specific clause of Grenadiers.

ok. I can see the confusion.
1. in the old codex for astra militarum there was a different path to custom regiments where (an example was given often) you could run a bunch of stuff with a different doctrine, e.g. normal gaurd with the stormtroopers regimental doctrine. They didn't become militarum tempests, and any actual militarum tempests mixed in with them would, ironically, not get their own stormtrooper doctrine (6's gaining an extra shot at short range) while mixed in.
This is the thing that the fellow above posited as a possible way to get stormtrooper doctrine on manticores.
This is a separate style of custom regiment from the stuff seen in the PA book, where you pick 2 traits like gunnery experts and spotter details to "build your own".
2. I forgot you couldn't do it to dkok, or at least, a lot of people believed you couldn't, although I don't thinik that was ever directly discussed in a faq. As dkok was somewhat dubiously "not possessing a regimental doctrine of its own" but derived its special rules from its statline rules unit by unit, and thus couldn't be broken (as a doctrine) by inserting a cadian unit -- although the cadian unit's cadian doctrine would be broken by a dkok (or elysian) unit in the detachment back in eighth.

Without going down to my car (packed to the gills with crap, actually) and digging both books out of the bottom of a 500 pound pile of stuff, I can't reference either book directly, other than by memmory.

Note that the limit was that the custom (old style) regiment gained only stormtrooper doctrine -- it did NOT become miliatrum tempestes with stormtrooper doctrine.

Anyway, I fear we are devolving into confusion of terminology and some of that is probably my fault for typing stuff while at work.

A lot of folks have commented on DKok, Cadian, and Catachan doctrines. My question is what do you guys think of the Armageddon doctrine in 9th edition? My guard force is the Steel Legion models because I started it when the old Armageddon campaign codex was out. I play my force like the fluff with everything in Chimeras and loads of Russ's for heavy firepower support. I haven't had a chance to play test my force out yet in 9th but I think it would work well in the objective based play of 9th edition.

How I see my force working in 9th edition is to steam roll all Chimeras and infantry to the middle of the board turn 1 and establish a gun line. The regimental doctrine of rapid fire at 18 inches with double the shots sounds extremely useful in ensuring the gun line holds at mid table, plus the Chimeras are there for infantry support. I'll deep strike tempestus ahead of the gunline to sow confusion and to push for objectives on the far side of the table. If they make it, they make it. If they don't they don't. This edition seems focused on table control, and controlling the middle of the table seems like the key. I think this doctrine may be useful with the number of shots you can take mid-range. What do you guys think of this strategy and the Armageddon doctrine in 9th?

It sounds as solid as anything else we have had in here -- you are going to put a fairly resilient mechanized minihorde midtable with decent rate of fire to make up for lackluster bs4+.

I would give out lots of plasma and hide the better units like command squads in the chimeras, so they can step out and fire with almost the efficacy of a scions squad -- doubleshot on dismount with 3 inch dismount, 6 inch move, and 18 inch fir range = anything within 27 inches of your chimera is getting short range plasma fire. That's pretty damn good, and a single rr1 order should minimize the self harm.

Or yarrik! you can run yarrik for armywide rerolls! Sounds solid.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
It sounds as solid as anything else we have had in here -- you are going to put a fairly resilient mechanized minihorde midtable with decent rate of fire to make up for lackluster bs4+.

I would give out lots of plasma and hide the better units like command squads in the chimeras, so they can step out and fire with almost the efficacy of a scions squad -- doubleshot on dismount with 3 inch dismount, 6 inch move, and 18 inch fir range = anything within 27 inches of your chimera is getting short range plasma fire. That's pretty damn good, and a single rr1 order should minimize the self harm.

Or yarrik! you can run yarrik for armywide rerolls! Sounds solid.

Nice! I didn't even think about running Yarrik!

Isn't he thematically perfect for that army?
He also gives rerolls to things like crusaders when they didn't charge or get charged, or to masses of catachans in melee, or to the occasinoal baneblade or flyer.

I loves me a yarrik!

Just threw this list together this morning, wanted to get the tactics opinion on it:


++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [29 PL, -3CP, 520pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [-3CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Astra Millitarum, Gunnery Experts, Jury-rigged Repairs

+ Lord of War +

Doomhammer [29 PL, 520pts]: Steadfast Leviathan, Twin heavy bolter
. Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponson: Lascannon, Twin heavy bolter
. Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponson: Lascannon, Twin heavy bolter

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [75 PL, 11CP, 1,480pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

Regimental Doctrine: Astra Millitarum, Gunnery Experts, Jury-rigged Repairs

+ Stratagems +

Tank Ace [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 35pts]: Chainsword, Display Astra Militarum Orders, Laspistol, Relic: The Deathmask of Ollanius

Tank Commander [12 PL, 225pts]: Battle Cannon, Display Tank Orders, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters, Heavy Stubber, Steel Commander, Warlord

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 75pts]
. 6x Guardsman: 6x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Heavy Weapon Team: Autocannon
. Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Power sword

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 75pts]
. 6x Guardsman: 6x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Heavy Weapon Team: Autocannon
. Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Power sword

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 80pts]
. 6x Guardsman: 6x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Power sword

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 80pts]
. 6x Guardsman: 6x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Power sword

+ Elites +

Tech-Priest Enginseer [2 PL, 35pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Armoured Sentinels [3 PL, 50pts]
. Armoured Sentinel: Plasma Cannon

Armoured Sentinels [3 PL, 50pts]
. Armoured Sentinel: Plasma Cannon

Armoured Sentinels [3 PL, 50pts]
. Armoured Sentinel: Plasma Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Hydras [6 PL, 115pts]
. Hydra: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [22 PL, 430pts]
. Leman Russ Demolisher: Heavy Stubber, Lascannon, Multi-meltas, Turret-mounted Demolisher Siege Cannon
. Leman Russ Executioner: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber, Plasma Cannons, Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chimera [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Multi-laser

Chimera [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Multi-laser

++ Total: [104 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I have a ton of various tanks and Infantry, plans are to drop 2 Infantry squads in the roomhammer and start rushing enemy deployment, leave an infantry squad in home deployment with the Co Commander, pretty much everything else sweeps across the board for other objectives.

Might add a Heavy Weapon Squad for the firing decks, swapping a few things around for the points.

So my advice, shift warlord from vulnerable and exposed tank commander to deathmask protected character commander, drop hydra, drop sponsoons, buy a leman russ and 2 buffing astropaths, and shift tank ace strat on tankcommander to be "master mechanic" to synergize the roudn 2 to 3 buffing from the astropaths. As big tanks die and cheaper tanks get in place, you shift the buffers from tank to tank, protecting each in turn with -1 to be hit, +1 to save, and up to about 5 repair woudns a round. That + the extra leman russ means your enemy will start by trying to kill the doomhammer, and probably succeed, but not necessarily roudn 1 or 2 as he hopes, and then, your armor is in good shape for the game, 4 leman russ is not bad for turn 3, especially if the lead element is a tank commander with -1 to be hit, +1 to save, and -1 to incoming per shot damage!...compared to he kills it in turn 1 or 2 and you have only 3 left and a hydra -- but he brought no flyers, and the lead tank commander isn't particularly tough to kill.

The reason I say this is, it looks like your list is all about the armor -- you don't have the depth of infantry most ninth lists that are trying to "horde obsec" bring, and that means you will need to win the armor vs armor battle (or whatever they have that is like armor) or at minimum, keep the enemy occupied firing his armor at yours till the end of the game, so that your relatively small gaurd contingent of soldiers isn't overrun. Probably you have to win that fight, and to do that, you need your tanks to not die as long as they can .. and to not be trapped by the hydra, which ends up firing 8 autocannon shots at bs 5+ into enemy armor on the ground, doing all of maybe 3 hits, and then only forcing ONE save at ap-1. So your hydra is ok against a horde of bikers that come directly in front of you but can't quite reach your lines, but its going to be utterly ignored if you fight against another gaurd army with maybe 5 or 6 leman russes in a line. Suddenly 6 leman russ can probably blow up oyur big tank + 3 leman russ, and start working on your infantry, while the hydra just sort of wishes it could harm them.

As a simple example. I am sure deathgaurd or chaos would be a less simple example but I mostly play gaurd so I just think of them as targets.

WL on TC Ace was mostly to have Battlescribe shut up(throwing up 2 different Error Codes: 1 too many Tnk Ace and 1 Too many WLT).

Hear you on the Hydra vs extra Russ, was hoping for extra +1 to hit on non-flyer, FLY, models; All through 8th and so far in 9th I have been sleeping on most "Anti-air" weapons while simultaneously seeing jump pack enemies and grav tanks.

Part of the whole situation was ensuring I had fairly mobile armor saturation, mainly to help protect the super heavy. I agree with the need for astropaths; sort of forgot about them with selecting the enginseer(who is really unnecessary with Regiment selections: already healing 1-d3 W on every vehicle)

Instead of Deathmask I was thinking of the Dagger and deploying the Co Commander with an infantry squad to run for an enemy objective/pull secondary Objective Actions in enemy territory(Since the Co Com is already not going to be handing out very many Orders).

Looking at it all I can Drop Enginseer, Hydra, Stubbers on russes, MM Sponsons on Demolisher, and 1 Sgt's wargear and still fit the 2 Astropaths, turn TC into a MBT-Classic and gain an MBT with Hull Las.

The Other thing I am somewhat looking into is saying "Screw the CPS" and taking the main force as a Spearhead, dropping an Infantry squad but gaining Obsec on the Russes as well(and freeing up Points and Slots for HWS to sit on the Firing Deck and Blast away).

I have a pretty interesting game coming this weekend: I'll face renegade using the Imperial Guard codex, mainly based around infantry, using my a mechanized army. He will still have around 5 vehicle though.
It's the first time I'll face the guard. Gonna be a pretty interesting game with all those weak infantry and those lasguns !

Er, how did it go?

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Keep in mind that you now can deepstrike literally anything. It's not cheap, as it costs additional 3 CP but you can get one round of undisturbed shooting guaranteed.

IF the enemy also brings a titanic unit, one round of shooting can be enough for a shadowsword to bring back its points, especially with reroll or Vostroyas +1to hit buff.

Though if it has sponsons isn't it bigger than 6" at smallest side? Thus unable to fit fully within 6" of board edge and thus unable to do anything.

So for that skip sponsons.

tneva82 wrote:

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Keep in mind that you now can deepstrike literally anything. It's not cheap, as it costs additional 3 CP but you can get one round of undisturbed shooting guaranteed.

IF the enemy also brings a titanic unit, one round of shooting can be enough for a shadowsword to bring back its points, especially with reroll or Vostroyas +1to hit buff.

Though if it has sponsons isn't it bigger than 6" at smallest side? Thus unable to fit fully within 6" of board edge and thus unable to do anything.

So for that skip sponsons.

Pff when small game rules get in the way of intended playing purposes, fight back by modeling your tank to have both sponsons on one side, thereby keeping the tank under 6". It doesn't specify where the sponsons have to go...

tneva82 wrote:

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Keep in mind that you now can deepstrike literally anything. It's not cheap, as it costs additional 3 CP but you can get one round of undisturbed shooting guaranteed.

IF the enemy also brings a titanic unit, one round of shooting can be enough for a shadowsword to bring back its points, especially with reroll or Vostroyas +1to hit buff.

Though if it has sponsons isn't it bigger than 6" at smallest side? Thus unable to fit fully within 6" of board edge and thus unable to do anything.

So for that skip sponsons.

If the model can't fit within 6", place it touching the board edge.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Keep in mind that you now can deepstrike literally anything. It's not cheap, as it costs additional 3 CP but you can get one round of undisturbed shooting guaranteed.

IF the enemy also brings a titanic unit, one round of shooting can be enough for a shadowsword to bring back its points, especially with reroll or Vostroyas +1to hit buff.

Though if it has sponsons isn't it bigger than 6" at smallest side? Thus unable to fit fully within 6" of board edge and thus unable to do anything.

So for that skip sponsons.

If the model can't fit within 6", place it touching the board edge.

Yes. And in case you have missed it there's additional restriction when that happens. Specifically you are sitting duck there.

You don't get to come and act normally. If you can't fit you can still COME there. It just comes with additional penalty. So yes you can put baneblade into reserves but if you build it with sponsons opponent will get to shoot at you once anyway before you get to shoot.

As for above comment: Modeling for advantage is big no no. You try that, opponent is fine to model 0.5" tall wraithlord.

I have always thoguht the cadian ability to interloc fields of fire -- and give the tank a +1 to hit, the guys in or near it a +1, the other artillery pieces all a +1, was WAY better than a single unit of vostroyan armor firind its dozen or so shots at +1.

If you pick a doomhammer rather than a shadowsword or similar, you can also load a brace of command squads or veterancs into it, and pour out your melta and plasma and lascannon fire at a bs3+ (which is the same effect as a +1 strat, only no command points blown). Then when the tank dies, they just pile out, a few regular infantry die, and they can fire again while grabbing for terrain.

Compared to an extremely well armed baneblade that just poof! can do nothing once dead, cause sponsoons don't jump out ot fight.

overlappiing fields of fire require to deal unsaved wound to the target. In case of knight with 4++ it can be an issue, and also it costs 2CP. Vostroyan strategem costs only 1CP and is for unit shooting, not target, so e.g. you can split fire with Baneblade and get +1 to hit roll for every target you shoot at.

Baneblade even with sponsons on single side is just above 6'' width so it cannot be deepstriked (well it can but it is not viable in any way).

Also Doomhammer in deepstrike is 4CP as it is 30PL :(. for 3CP Baneblade has the biggest firepower thanks to demolisher cannon and autocannon on top of twin heavy bolters and main cannon.

Tallarn ambush stratagem is still very viable as one can fit there squadronned vehicles (e.g. 3 Leman Russes / Hellhounds or Baneblade with sponsons as it can be set up 7'' from board edge) alongside 2 infantry units (melta command squad with platoon commander) and can be set alongside any edge (even your opponent's board edge) from turn 2 onwards so yea, tallarn is still valid with ambush and advancing hellhounds/flame chimeras/ flame LRBTs and so on.