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I have an almost 7 year old nephew. He loves looking at my models and I promised him when he was 5 that when he turns 8, I would show him how to play the game. He still holds me to it and always says he can't wait till he's 8 so he can play army men with me.

He's a really smart kid but I still think he's a little too young to really know what's going on and get even a small grasp on the rules. So I'm wondering, for you folks with kids, younger brothers, whatever, what age do you think is the best to start to be introduced to the hobby?

If an 8-year-old can play an RTS--and I've seen many who do--I'm sure he can play 40k. Maybe not a proper game, but if it's just Tac Marines shooting at Spiky Tac Marines, why not? "These guys all need to roll 4 or more to hit with each shot. They have to roll another die for every shot that hits, and against these guys, they need a 4 or more again, etc."

Edit: Except of course neither SMs nor CMs actually need a 4+ to hit. Doh!

yeah start small start simple. build from there.
we started with carcasonne when my son was 3 as a matching game. now he what's to play with the guys.

I got the Basic DnD boxed set when I was 7, and it was just fine for me.  Play it by ear, and like tegeus-Cromis said, start simple and go from there.  Run some small scenarios, and start with ones that are very one-sided for your nephew.

You could probably use the Battle for Macragge boxed set rules (specifically the BFG scenarios book) as a good place to start. No points values, no complicated charts, just what you have to roll to do whatever.

If you can stand pre-painted minis, I've had some success with the Star Wars miniatures with my 7 year old (D&D minis have a few more rules to them). You could also try out the Space Crusade box set, which has simplified (but accurate) gameplay between a squad of SM's and Genestealers, sort of like a proto-MacCragge.

I never got the Battle for Macragee box set.. that might be a good idea. How easy is it to build the models? Are they snap-together? Might be a fun project for when he visits, we can build his guys then play with em and start small.

Then I'd have to convince my sister that it's not devil worshiper dungeons and dragons, cuz she just doesn't know any better. Guess it doesn't help that me and his dad got him to like iron maiden and he sang number of the beast to his kindergarden class...

Not snap together, but they fit quite nicely. They're slotted so that they're
one pose pieces, so you probably still need glue.

Please tell me you guys also built him an Eddi costume! That would rock!

Start simple, I started when I was 9 or 10 with Warhammer fantasy. My brother and me were stranded without a rulebook and just a vague grasp of the rules but we continued playing. I think you can't get a more confusing game and we somehow managed it. Lighten up the rules and he will understand.
I wouldn't confront him with any chart stuff, though. Space marines are a good start.

Greets
Schepp himself

Maybe LOTR stuff would be good for starters. You can start with small
sets and fairly uncomplicated models at a good price.

Keep it lite and low points to start with is my advice.
My son started at 8, (now 10) but I sucked the fun out the game by trying to teach to much tactics to start with and 2nd guessing his every move.
Low points to start with cuz if it takes 20 mins. a turn, combined with short attention span, Lets just say hind site is 20/20.
He memorized the "to hit" and "damage " charts in no time.
So 8 is fine with short games, with 3000 pts. it might take three or more visits to complete a game.

Heck, I can't play a 3k points game...

I started when I was 10. I understood 2nd Ed rules. 4th Ed is a baby's game by comparison.

BYE

Forget the age, ccounting years can shackle a bright child who can grasp things older chidlren might not. If the child likes the game he will learn it, if he isn't interested he wont. There isnt anything in 40K that cannot be understood by a small child, except finding a logic to GW's policies. Jervis has seen to that.

The main issue is whether the subject matter of the grim darkness of the far future is suitable for children. Personally I don't think it is, but then children are exposed to stuff at far younger ages than my generation was not, and I dont think this tide can be stemmed by restricting access to 40K.

You can tone down the background for kids pretty easily.  Leave out the concepts of genocide and soul perversions and stick to "good guys versus bad guys", or even "bad guys versus bad guys". 

"Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesteryear. But it was never the streets that were evil."
- Sister Miriam Godwinson

40K background isn't that bad, I mean it's not like power rangers where a kid watches it then runs around the house kicking everything.

I would tone it down for him though and explain it as big tough army men vs stinky mean scarey alien monsters. And I guess if I get him the BFM box set for xmas i'll tell him he can only build the stuff if me or his dad help.. 7 year old with a xacto knife doesn't seem like a good idea Or would I be better off waiting till next year when he's 8?

You said you were going to teach him when he's 8; I'd stick to that. I was old enough for my dad's old toy train before I was 10, but the experience of getting it for my 10th birthday was all the sweeter in the waiting.

If you decide to get him BFM, paint up all the figs yourself, even if it's only drybrush and a wash (wait, that's what I always do! ). If he's still interested after a couple of games, you can start introducing him to the hobby aspect (pre-clipped and glued, perhaps). If he just wants to play a few times and loses interest, then either he's got a nice 'board game' that he can play when he likes, or you've got some demo figs.

I started when I was 10. It took a little work, as the person introducing me was 10 as well, and had no idea what he was doing:

"I don't think I need to roll to hit or wound. Just roll a 4 or higher for those guys".

"Um, it says 2+. These are Terminators, right? What does that mean?"

"Umm, I'm not sure. But I still think you need to roll a 4 or higher to live."

After about a year, we taught ourselves enough about the game that we became proficient players; he as Dark Eldar, Nids, and Chaos Space Marines, and I as Black Templars (and later Imperial Guard). Since then, It's like second nature to us.

I would definitely recommend toning down the fluff part, or simply eliminating it altogether until he's mature enough to take a reasoned look at it without it affecting him in an adverse way. My friend got too into the fluff, and is now a bit out of it when we talk about WH40K - my parents both think the game is cultish and that it attracts the wrong kind of crowd. I'm 19, and they still frown upon it...Oh well, what can you do.

If you dole out the game in manageable portions for an 8-year old, I think you could be hugely successful at introducing him to the game. Just be sure to go out back and throw the football around with him - I remember being so hyper after one of those games that I'd run around the block just to burn off some energy (I was 10, and not that energetic. Think about an 8-year old...)

Good luck teaching him the ropes.

CK

My two lads are ages 4 and 6 and they are completely up for LotR (which is my own favourite GW game).  I wasn't going to let them get into it as I thought they'd not be able to cope and it would be an expensive way of filling up the waste paper basket, but after they nagged Santa to death last Christmas and I gave them a couple of painted up models each in their stockings for their very own they really impressed me with the care they took of them.  So for their birthdays earlier this year and their saved up pocket money they each got a few models each and I taught the 6 year old the rules. He and I and also his brother have had some fun games together since.

Some photos:



And another which is too big for the forum:

img256.imageshack.us/img256/2875/dsc00289tk0.jpg

Sure the little one is only tagging along, but he's learning to take care of things and be careful and having fun, which is great.  It is relly great for the older one though as it has really given him incentive with his reading, writing and arithmatic!

Its a great "Bonding" thing with the 3 of us too - something we genuinely share and enjoy together.  Which is a really precious thing between boys and their Dad!

It has also encouraged the 6 year-old to paint them himself.  Which totally surprised me as hitherto he showed no ability to concentrate on anything for more than a couple of minutes:



Sure, he isn't going to win any Golden Demons yet, but then neither am I.  And it is great to see the satisfaction that arises from even a simply base-coated and neatly based model!  And this also provides a great chance for us to "work together" on stuff - I often help with basing (as its a bit messy), and we have even made a few simple terrain elements together - small woods and rocky outcrops based on CDs - which was absolutely fantastic!

Sure we don't have "full on" games, but I'm careful to play "properly" (I don't cheat myself in order to let my boys win falsely), but I do carefully try to explain why I'm doing stuff, and I help them decide what they want to do - particularly as the more complicated rules (such as magic) are hard for them to keep track of as their reading isn't up to big blocks of text, although the 6 year-old is a master at memorising stat-lines!!

As things stand, my eldest lad has beaten me more often than I have beaten him (although that is perhaps due to many games being ones where my youngest has picked my army for me - so I end up with something like 3 heroes and nothing else...! :-D )

So I would say that they are "never to young".  Sure you have to be mindful of their ages and not expect them to have adult attitudes.  Also, physically they can't help but be a little clumsy and of course their Maths and English skills are only at a rudimentary level.  But my 2 have really surprised and impressed me with their attitude and their ability to cope with and enjoy the hobby at a far more "grown up" level than I imagined was possible!

About the only advice I'd give other than "go for it and enjoy!" is to try and help them pick the more "robust" models available as inevitably accidents will happen (which is still all part of the learning process) - long plastic pikes and vulnerable plastic horse ankles are not great choices necessarily, but big metal Trolls actually bounce if you pin them sturdily enough!!  Also, don't swamp them with loads of "free" models: mine have learned to appreciate them and take care of them because each one has been either saved for out of pocket money or been a special present.  In fact because the "reality" of the transaction has helped them understand it, I actually take them along to a store to buy in person with cash over the counter stuff they have saved up for rather than buying stuff online at a discount or just giving them my surplus stock (although they have also picked up some bargains in "Bring and Buy" sales as well :-D).  I reckon the couple of quid extra pocket money it costs me is worth it because of the lessons it helps them learn.

My only regret is that I don't have the energy and time to play more often with them!  This time when they are young and look up to you and value something just because "Daddy did it" is so fleeting and precious!

You've got to go for it!!

EDIT: (To add something else I just thought of).  The whole "Dads teaching their sons their hobby" thing can be tricky depending mostly on the temperament of the Dad!  I've no idea what your temperament is, but I know I've found it tricky to try and see things from their perspective and bring out of the game stuff they will enjoy rather than try and shoehorn them into enjoying the game like I do.  For instance, both of them (yes, even the 4 year-old) have sat through the films (and not suffered any noticeable harm).  Consequently they really identify with the characters - both "goodies" and "baddies".  They (just like Jervis') kids want to act out games where there are big (anti-)heroes stomping around all over the place.  So that's what we do together, and we just have fun.  There's plenty of time for learning about tactics and so on later once they are getting a bit bored with things, but for now its all about charging Aragorn into a Troll Chieftain and rolling buckets of dice and then learning important lessons about sportsmanship and being gracious in victory or defeat! :-D

Nice story. I think they feed off your enthusiasm for the hobby reinforcing the love you have for your kids. That may sound condescending, so let me explain. What I mean is that many Dads love their kids but dont openly enthuse in a level way by showing an inner child themselves, the gaming may be a vessel to doing so.

An excellent posting Osbad!!! I have two boys myself (ages 3 and 1) and your post makes very useful reading for if/when they want to get into the hobby.

My three year old is already interested although to be honest he's interested in everything I do Not very gentle with my mini's though........

On the what age question though I don't think there's any 'right' age as long as thier old enough to stop trying to eat space marines As long as you steer away from the fluff it's all toy soldiers that you spend extra time painting. It'll have no more a negative effect than airfix F15's or the Playmobil castle and knights my son's got.

Osbad made one particularly strong point in his post that struck home with me. He mentioned how his eldest was getting along better with his reading since he really wants to read the rule books for this game. I had a very similar experience myself when I was a child. I was basically illiterate up till the third grade. This was mostly due to a lack of interest on my part. However when I managed to get my hands on a copy of the old "blue box" D&D books, it all changed. I found something I really really wanted to be able to understand and I found I couldn't. So I learned to read and I learned fast all due to a burning desire to play a game. I might have ended up as one of those failure statistics had that not happened. I had another friend who learned to spell because he needed those skills to play the old Sierra games on his fairly new IBM 286 computer (wow that dates me). Things like this can really be useful educational motivations for children so I would encourage parents to give their children access to these things if they really show interest. Start them off slow and make sure you're not just blowing a bunch of money on something that they are going to lose interest in, but if they keep up with it, let them. Sooner or later they may get all the way up to sitting around on message boards discussing probability distributions of rending attacks and harping on the mathematical superiority of the auto cannon over the las cannon when shooting at eldar skimmers.