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there are two goals - screen our DP and only then deliver tzaangors

Hey there fellows, I've been reading tactics, and somehow thousand sons seems to struggle against some armies. I'm asking for advise about list building, and tips for what is actually working at the moment. So, heres a sample;

Battalion
- lord of change
- some other hq (maybe fluxmaster)
- 20x pink horrors
- 20x pink horrors
- 20x pink horrors

Battalion
- not sure about HQ, want to go magic heavy here
- rubric marines in rhino
- tzaangor (2x big units in the webway)
- some sort of anti tank support (lasc helbrute or lasc predator)

So, what I'm aiming with this list, deep striking horrors and tzaangor, while rubric marines go for objectives. Definately want to go magic heavy, maybe even squeeze in magnus. Can this really work, or do I have to make a new list?

If your running deamons in support of tsons there are a few things to know.

First, depending on what kind of list you want, tsons and deamons can be stupid good in synergy. Mutalith vortex beasts can do amazing things to deamons making them stupid scary in cc. If you go with the lord of change give it the impossible robe, you want that 3++ save that can get boosted to a 2++ with a stratagem. I like a single big squad of tzaangors on the table already, not ds. That way you can use a dark matter crystal to get them into assault range turn 1. A deamon prince with aetherstride can also get into cc turn 1. That leaves your t2 drops being those pink horrors, which can do a great deal of work. Leave points for splitting and they can sit on objectives throwing out shots like champs.

Rubrics i personally like to run in groups of 10, drop them into a rhino, and run them to wherever you need to support your lines the most. Rubrics dont care about genestealers or noise marines for example.

Finally tson deamon princes are amazing. We have the best ones. Take 3 if you can. Magnus will be a fire magnet. If you dont get t1 he can get easily wiped.

Gl, there are lots of ways to do what your thinking about, the question becomes where do you want to focus.

Hi, I'm considering a Chaos army list that is heavily based on fire and flame weapons, and obviously this means that Flamers and Exalted Flamers are a big option from Tzeentch.

But the bulk of the army was going to be CSM, and so I was considering the option of Thousand Sons being the legion of choice. Are the flame weapon options of TS actually worthwhile to field? What kinds of options would I have?

The current alternative is death guard... much less fitting on the looks of the models, but with Drone Plague Spitters and the Plague flame weapons available on the basic marines and terminators and the Prince (and foul blightspawn being a flamer character), they are currently a strong contender even if it means having to convert all the models!

Hopefully someone will point out some options

Tzeentch Flamers of both variety are the best two flamer models available to Chaos for sure. You could give a nod to the list theme and stick a warpflamer in each MSU Rubric squad?

 grouchoben wrote:
Tzeentch Flamers of both variety are the best two flamer models available to Chaos for sure. You could give a nod to the list theme and stick a warpflamer in each MSU Rubric squad?

If that's the extent of it, I may try and mix in death guard instead... the Drone and the Foulspawn are at least as good as exalteds (but sacrificing range for durability). Means mixing nurgle and tzeentch though, which is a bit of a pain and not very fluffy.

I was considering running a whole squad of rubrics with warp flamers, but not sure how I'd actually get them to do anything that is worthwhile for the big points cost.

Jumping in here with an odd note, but does anyone else, after reading the Thousand Sons Helbrute fluff, feel like the unit should be a psyker? I mean the Thousand Sons lure people in with the promise of learning from arguably the greatest sorcerers in the galaxy, which means the victims have some level of psychic potential.

I mean I'm not asking for much more than maybe a baby smite or some kind of unique power (perhaps a psychic scream of sorts as their madness bleeds into the Immaterium and drops the leadership on units within a range of him?), but it feels like the ol' Brute should be bringing something more the table than he currently does based on lore (but it's not like it isn't the first time it's happened).

Less lore related, I've been looking at the army because of Kill Teams, and while tournament wise it looks like we're more mid-tier for high level tournaments (at least right now, maybe new surprises will shake out in the future we see changes this fall from Chapter Approved and future beta rules), what do people feel about pure Thousand Sons for more local level tournaments and casual play? Do we still struggle to see results in less crunchy environment without running Daemons?

And I have to say, that without special scenarios, I'm having trouble seeing a use for Magnus outside of Apoc sized games. Basically with his size he's too easy to shoot and too hard to protect without massive threat saturation on the table that can rip larger chunks out of the opponent's army than Magnus can in a single phase.

That said, I'm likely to end up caving and buying him anyways for the inevitable collection, but I'm just struggling to justify him since he falls hard to many lists, especially since a lot of armies seem to be pushing more towards firebase builds post April's FAQ.

Or am I just not opening my third eye enough to see the true method of using the big man properly?

I'd leave Magnus in the basket for a while, personally, and focus on getting a 30-tzang flerd, 3 daemon princes and Ahriman. I think that's the core of any competitive Sons list, personally.

 grouchoben wrote:
I'd leave Magnus in the basket for a while, personally, and focus on getting a 30-tzang flerd, 3 daemon princes and Ahriman. I think that's the core of any competitive Sons list, personally.

did you have any experience with Ts (beside playing the obvious supreme command)? do you see any list having a decent degree of success? ty
the only try i had with a Ts list was this

 grouchoben wrote:
I'd leave Magnus in the basket for a while, personally, and focus on getting a 30-tzang flerd, 3 daemon princes and Ahriman. I think that's the core of any competitive Sons list, personally.

Honestly I'm looking at putting more Rubrics into a list, if only a single unit to serve as a solid anvil for the army. But that's likely because I lean towards a hammer and anvil style of list building (or sword and shield depending on the army involved). Basically if I've got something aggressive and looking to throw it at my opponent I usually want something with some staying power to help take and hold objectives so I can play the mission if my plans fail (which they have done many times).

If your interested this is my Tson list for myocal meta. Its been pretty successful.



1500 pt list, i put the dark matter onto the wingless prince to send up with the warlord, they are my alpha strike. Then my rhinos move for secondary support and pop smoke, defiler gets buffed and kills something dead, and the beast moves up and also supports with mortal wounds.

What normally happens in my games is my enemy gets hit turn 1, the warlord kills something then gets focused to death (yes i lose slay the warlord but i he soaks up so much firepower its worth it), the tzaangors hit a flank and will slowly kill their way through a side, the rubrics take the center and put down fire support, mutalith will get half way there then get killed, but not before getting some good mw's off, and defiler gets ignored until t3, but ny then he has killed his points value. Rhinos are running around capturing objectives. And normally my opponents just get into a reaction mode and are never able to really focus on the mission because i take 2/3rds of the table and hold them to their corner.

I hope this helps give you some ideas.

Azuza001 wrote:
If your interested this is my Tson list for myocal meta. Its been pretty successful.

Spoiler:

+HQ +

Ahriman: Diabolic Strength, Prescience, Temporal Manipulation

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: 3. Aetherstride, Glamour of Tzeentch, Malefic talon, Warlord, Warptime, Wings

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Gaze of Fate, Malefic talon, Prescience

+ Troops +

Rubric Marines
. . Aspiring Sorcerer: Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Weaver of Fates
. . 8x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 8x Inferno boltgun
. . Rubric Marine w/ Soulreaper cannon: Soulreaper cannon

Rubric Marines
. . Aspiring Sorcerer: Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Weaver of Fates
. . 8x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 8x Inferno boltgun
. . Rubric Marine w/ Soulreaper cannon: Soulreaper cannon

Tzaangors: Brayhorn, 11x Tzaangor w/ Tzaangor Blades
. . Twistbray: Tzaangor blades

+ Heavy Support +

Defiler: Defiler scourge, Twin lascannon

Mutalith Vortex Beast

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter

Chaos Rhino: Combi-bolter

1500 pt list, i put the dark matter onto the wingless prince to send up with the warlord, they are my alpha strike. Then my rhinos move for secondary support and pop smoke, defiler gets buffed and kills something dead, and the beast moves up and also supports with mortal wounds.

What normally happens in my games is my enemy gets hit turn 1, the warlord kills something then gets focused to death (yes i lose slay the warlord but i he soaks up so much firepower its worth it), the tzaangors hit a flank and will slowly kill their way through a side, the rubrics take the center and put down fire support, mutalith will get half way there then get killed, but not before getting some good mw's off, and defiler gets ignored until t3, but ny then he has killed his points value. Rhinos are running around capturing objectives. And normally my opponents just get into a reaction mode and are never able to really focus on the mission because i take 2/3rds of the table and hold them to their corner.

I hope this helps give you some ideas.

That is pretty close to something I was looking at running, though I was looking at an Exalted instead of a DP and just using a CP to swap for Flickering Flames so he could support the Defiler in the back (he'd be cheaper leaving room for dropping a couple of flamers in the Rubric squads for example), but otherwise that looks pretty close to something I was considering as a list, so it's good to know it works. Plus it has Ahriman who has been a favorite character of mine for a while now. Plus he basically has the coolest character model ever on the table (his old one was good, his disc riding one is even more awesome).

I won an event last weekend playing pure thousand sons.

Daemon Princes, Ahriman, ton of tzaangor, enlightened (bows) and a tzaangor shaman.
Tabled every opponent, lowest score on ITC missions was 35.

I also had magnus but he's useless, only in the list until i have another 60 tzaangor painted up.

Sneggy wrote:
I won an event last weekend playing pure thousand sons.

Daemon Princes, Ahriman, ton of tzaangor, enlightened (bows) and a tzaangor shaman.
Tabled every opponent, lowest score on ITC missions was 35.

I also had magnus but he's useless, only in the list until i have another 60 tzaangor painted up.

Glad to hear it went well. I've never played ITC format so I can't comment on list design or tactics, but outside of that I don't feel running AoS Beastmen in Space is quite as strong. Don't get me wrong, they're effective, but I feel like the Rubrics can pull some weight outside of the higher tournament formats.

Sneggy wrote:
I won an event last weekend playing pure thousand sons.

Daemon Princes, Ahriman, ton of tzaangor, enlightened (bows) and a tzaangor shaman.
Tabled every opponent, lowest score on ITC missions was 35.

I also had magnus but he's useless, only in the list until i have another 60 tzaangor painted up.

who you played against? and what did you play, i mean how many tzaangors and enlightened, thx

I always find my rubrics do well as an anchor, but they need something else keeping the enemy busy. A great example of how rubrics can be amazing is last time i used them, had a single squad of 10. They got charged by genestealers (20 of them, down to 17 from overwatch) and only lost 3 thanks to the beauty that is our 3+/4++ save vs them. Killed 4 more in cc. Then i dark matter crystaled them out of cc to 9" away and unloaded on them. That left 4 of them left.

My point is if you need a rock vs units that normally get torn apart by certain "scarry" units an enemy can take Rubrics can do a great job.

Hows the thoughts on TS maulerfiends?
I'm hoping to use Arihman to slingshot one up the board turn 1 with warptime and diabolic strength with my tzaangors following in behind and rubrics to hold the backline

Azuza001 wrote:
I always find my rubrics do well as an anchor, but they need something else keeping the enemy busy. A great example of how rubrics can be amazing is last time i used them, had a single squad of 10. They got charged by genestealers (20 of them, down to 17 from overwatch) and only lost 3 thanks to the beauty that is our 3+/4++ save vs them. Killed 4 more in cc. Then i dark matter crystaled them out of cc to 9" away and unloaded on them. That left 4 of them left.

My point is if you need a rock vs units that normally get torn apart by certain "scarry" units an enemy can take Rubrics can do a great job.

or he rolled very bad or you were very lucky to lost only 3 marines, 17 genestealers delivers 68 hits (average 45 get trough) then wound 22 considering each 6 have ap-4 and basically 5 of them have ap -3 you cant lost just 3 marines, also without 6's you save at 3+ so you get average 8-9 dead. U were very lucky.

Azuza001 wrote:


1500 pt list, i put the dark matter onto the wingless prince to send up with the warlord, they are my alpha strike.

So you mean that you Teleport your Wingless DP? DMC only works on Infantrie. DP ist Monster even without Wings.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Sneggy wrote:
I won an event last weekend playing pure thousand sons.

Daemon Princes, Ahriman, ton of tzaangor, enlightened (bows) and a tzaangor shaman.
Tabled every opponent, lowest score on ITC missions was 35.

I also had magnus but he's useless, only in the list until i have another 60 tzaangor painted up.

Glad to hear it went well. I've never played ITC format so I can't comment on list design or tactics, but outside of that I don't feel running AoS Beastmen in Space is quite as strong. Don't get me wrong, they're effective, but I feel like the Rubrics can pull some weight outside of the higher tournament formats.

Rubrics are a mid tier unit, the tzaangor are one of the most buffable units in the game and incredibly powerful with the right support.

blackmage wrote:

Sneggy wrote:
I won an event last weekend playing pure thousand sons.

Daemon Princes, Ahriman, ton of tzaangor, enlightened (bows) and a tzaangor shaman.
Tabled every opponent, lowest score on ITC missions was 35.

I also had magnus but he's useless, only in the list until i have another 60 tzaangor painted up.

who you played against? and what did you play, i mean how many tzaangors and enlightened, thx

I ran:
ahriman on disc
2 winged princes
60 tzaangor
5 rubrics (backfield objective holders and occasional firestormers, largely useless)
9 enlightened with bows
tzaangor shaman
magnus.

Round 1 I faced custodes and a knight castellan. Went second, survived the castellan turn one (barely, magnus on 5 wounds) Then moved up, engaged the custodes with tzaangor, magnus warptimed and charged the castellan. Didn't kill it but pinned it to a wall so it couldnt fall back.
Game just turned into a churn fest as I smited/other mortal wound powers and buffed up the tzaangor and the tzaangor chewed through his custodes.
Tabled him turn 3.

Game 2 I played vs tau.
Dark matter crystal put 30 tzaangor in combat with his whole army turn one. they ate everything. Took me until turn 4 to finish off the 3 riptides.

Game 3 played vs shining spear and reaper ynnarri. he went first, magnus died. spears went straight into the tzaangor and tried to get my characters. I lost a prince and some tzaangor. Then the tzaangor churn machine started up and all the spears died to a combination of vets, fight twice and my psychic phase the next turn. Then just a matter of dark matter crystal the other unit up and engage his lines. Tabled him turn 3.

the only reason i didnt max score every round was tabling my opponent too early (and the custodes player having an impossible to max out secondary build)

tzaangor are incredible. I'm painting up another 30, possibly 60. magnus is freakin' useless and rubrics are super expensive and just not punchy enough for my money.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

elodingens wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:


1500 pt list, i put the dark matter onto the wingless prince to send up with the warlord, they are my alpha strike.

So you mean that you Teleport your Wingless DP? DMC only works on Infantrie. DP ist Monster even without Wings.

DMT affects either the bearer or infantry. So if the daemon prince is holding it he can use it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sneggy wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

Sneggy wrote:
I won an event last weekend playing pure thousand sons.

Daemon Princes, Ahriman, ton of tzaangor, enlightened (bows) and a tzaangor shaman.
Tabled every opponent, lowest score on ITC missions was 35.

I also had magnus but he's useless, only in the list until i have another 60 tzaangor painted up.

Glad to hear it went well. I've never played ITC format so I can't comment on list design or tactics, but outside of that I don't feel running AoS Beastmen in Space is quite as strong. Don't get me wrong, they're effective, but I feel like the Rubrics can pull some weight outside of the higher tournament formats.

Rubrics are a mid tier unit, the tzaangor are one of the most buffable units in the game and incredibly powerful with the right support.

blackmage wrote:

Sneggy wrote:
I won an event last weekend playing pure thousand sons.

Daemon Princes, Ahriman, ton of tzaangor, enlightened (bows) and a tzaangor shaman.
Tabled every opponent, lowest score on ITC missions was 35.

I also had magnus but he's useless, only in the list until i have another 60 tzaangor painted up.

who you played against? and what did you play, i mean how many tzaangors and enlightened, thx

I ran:
ahriman on disc
2 winged princes
60 tzaangor
5 rubrics (backfield objective holders and occasional firestormers, largely useless)
9 enlightened with bows
tzaangor shaman
magnus.

Round 1 I faced custodes and a knight castellan. Went second, survived the castellan turn one (barely, magnus on 5 wounds) Then moved up, engaged the custodes with tzaangor, magnus warptimed and charged the castellan. Didn't kill it but pinned it to a wall so it couldnt fall back.
Game just turned into a churn fest as I smited/other mortal wound powers and buffed up the tzaangor and the tzaangor chewed through his custodes.
Tabled him turn 3.

Game 2 I played vs tau.
Dark matter crystal put 30 tzaangor in combat with his whole army turn one. they ate everything. Took me until turn 4 to finish off the 3 riptides.

Game 3 played vs shining spear and reaper ynnarri. he went first, magnus died. spears went straight into the tzaangor and tried to get my characters. I lost a prince and some tzaangor. Then the tzaangor churn machine started up and all the spears died to a combination of vets, fight twice and my psychic phase the next turn. Then just a matter of dark matter crystal the other unit up and engage his lines. Tabled him turn 3.

the only reason i didnt max score every round was tabling my opponent too early (and the custodes player having an impossible to max out secondary build)

tzaangor are incredible. I'm painting up another 30, possibly 60. magnus is freakin' useless and rubrics are super expensive and just not punchy enough for my money.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

elodingens wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:


1500 pt list, i put the dark matter onto the wingless prince to send up with the warlord, they are my alpha strike.

So you mean that you Teleport your Wingless DP? DMC only works on Infantrie. DP ist Monster even without Wings.

DMT affects either the bearer or infantry. So if the daemon prince is holding it he can use it.

i didn't understand if you used crystal+warptime same turn, what i knew is you cant


this is a list i have in mind to try at tournament

 blackmage wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:


i didn't understand if you used crystal+warptime same turn, what i knew is you cant

I would suggest not to take rulings from the warhammer facebook page. It repeatedly states they are not the rules or faq team on their page.
Thats an extremely contradictory ruling made in those comments if it holds true.

You can use the dark matter crystal to leave your deployment zone turn one purely because you are not entering reinforcements (at no point does the dark matter crystal use the word or phrasing for reinforcements.)
Units are only prohibited from being warptimed if they arrived from reinforcements this turn (which dark matter crystal units didn't by definition else they wouldn't be able to leave their own deployment zone.)

So either you can't leave your own deployment zone via dark matter crystal (something which has been explicitly stated as legal) and you cannot be warptimed. Or you can do both.
To do one but not the other is entirely contradictory to the logic of either working.
I've attached the relevant part of the FAQ clearly stating the block on warptime only applies to units which arrived from reinforcements and the wording for dark matter crystal to show it never states reinforcements.

i also sent this information to a rules judge prior to the event and they confirmed it would be played as I have described as its the only logical way to read it.

Yes i admit he rolled bad and i rolled well with my rubrics vs those genestealers, but not stupid amazing on either side. I think he only got like 30 hits or so on me, i remember he did average from hit to wound. Ap-4 makes us a 4++ save on rubrics, and not that big of a deal. That was the point i was trying to make. What other troop choice in the game gets a 4++ vs genestealers for the cost?

math-hammer is an incredibly useful tool but real experience with a said situation can make difference as well. Cant tell how many times math hammer said i should be able to do something no problem and then i failed anyways. Like the dreaded reroll a 1 and it becomes a 1 when you need a 2.

Anyways i don't normally dmc then wartime the same unit in a turn, i prefer to warptime my aetherstride lord for an incredibly fast alpha hit, but yes its a legal move if you want to. As Sneggy pointed out, the ruling on warptime after deep strike is only on reinforcements and does not apply to units that start the game on the table.

Sneggy wrote:


So either you can't leave your own deployment zone via dark matter crystal (something which has been explicitly stated as legal) and you cannot be warptimed. Or you can do both.
To do one but not the other is entirely contradictory to the logic of either working.

This is a great point. If DMC is reinforcements then it cannot leave your deployment T1. If it is not, then warptime after it is used would be allowed. So the Facebook post contradicts itself.

Maxwell00 wrote:

Sneggy wrote:


So either you can't leave your own deployment zone via dark matter crystal (something which has been explicitly stated as legal) and you cannot be warptimed. Or you can do both.
To do one but not the other is entirely contradictory to the logic of either working.

This is a great point. If DMC is reinforcements then it cannot leave your deployment T1. If it is not, then warptime after it is used would be allowed. So the Facebook post contradicts itself.

Combined with the fact we know you can use the dark matter crystal to leave your deployment zone as that has been officially ruled its permissive to warptiming the dark matter crystalled unit.

Yes i admit he rolled bad and i rolled well with my rubrics vs those genestealers, but not stupid amazing on either side. I think he only got like 30 hits or so on me, i remember he did average from hit to wound. Ap-4 makes us a 4++ save on rubrics, and not that big of a deal. That was the point i was trying to make. What other troop choice in the game gets a 4++ vs genestealers for the cost?

well considering they should hit about 45 times yes far below average you were lucky indeed, btw if you think rubrics are worth is ok.
pink horrors and they cost just 7pts and shoot as hell, if genestealers charge 30 pink horrors with a prince with demonspark near they suffer average 9-10 wounds means about 7 dead then they crash into 3++ save if i want. Then of course pure Ts wont play horrors but anyway for me rubric is really a waste of point, the only rubrics i would like to try are those with flamers in rhino.

I have ran a flamer squad before. 10 men, 1 w/ soulreaper, 4 with flamers, in a rhino and it went well. My opponent was using a hemlock flyer and he flew it forwards to hit me, doing some serious damage to my defiler. But that allowed my rubrics to just get into range jumping out of their rhino and moving towards it, dropped it between the flamers and the smites / infernal gaze from the rest of the army.

I found it to be a bit too expensive, though the versatility was useful. I am thinking of using a small 5 man squad in a rhino with 4 throwers to use as a deatraction / more immediate threat option. I find tsons work best when we force the opponent to choose between multiple threats.

elodingens wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:


1500 pt list, i put the dark matter onto the wingless prince to send up with the warlord, they are my alpha strike.

So you mean that you Teleport your Wingless DP? DMC only works on Infantrie. DP ist Monster even without Wings.

The bearer can use the DMC. So if the DP carries it he can use it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azuza001 wrote:
I have ran a flamer squad before. 10 men, 1 w/ soulreaper, 4 with flamers, in a rhino and it went well. My opponent was using a hemlock flyer and he flew it forwards to hit me, doing some serious damage to my defiler. But that allowed my rubrics to just get into range jumping out of their rhino and moving towards it, dropped it between the flamers and the smites / infernal gaze from the rest of the army.

I found it to be a bit too expensive, though the versatility was useful. I am thinking of using a small 5 man squad in a rhino with 4 throwers to use as a deatraction / more immediate threat option. I find tsons work best when we force the opponent to choose between multiple threats.

5 man units definitely look like a good use of going all flamers/Mortal Wound producing units, but at 10 man sized blobs I'd probably keep the unit at 2 flamers to keep the price down. Plus the extra points could go towards a Havoc Launcher for the Rhino which basically makes it like a diet Whirlwind that can carry troops (or a weaker Razorback that has more transport capacity0. Don't forget about the Warpfire Gargoyle strat for the Rhino if you're being aggressive with it as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I almost feel like anyone who runs a lot of Rubrics (say 6+ squads, even if they're all MSU flamer squads) should look at running the Icon of Flame on them as that'll give you on adverage at least extra one mortal wound output a turn which can always be helpful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I had another look at the MVB today and I think we've been overlooking a utility for the big guy: a self buffing distraction carnifex. He's a reasonably decent melee unit, isn't too fragile and all the vortex buffs can be poured onto himself as you ram him into your enemy's squisher units. The only buff that doesn't really help him is the leadership one but outside of that it's still a solid option for the unit if you want something big and scary looking to cause a ruckus while the rest of your army does its thing.

I personally like the mvb, i have 2 of them and they do a great job as a distraction. Once the opponent starts shooting at them they know they have to kill it asap, or it gets stronger below 7 wounds. Problem is its cost and certain things like a knight can one shot it off the board without even blinking while the rest of its shots go somewhere else. Its crazy how strong knights are now with their d6 str 14 ap-5 3d3 dmg guns (who ever thought that was a fair weapon to put into the game should be slapped, it makes land raiders look like old school rhinos. I know you want your 600 pt pretty toy to be strong but i would also like my 350 pt best tank out there before you get to lords of war to be.... semi tough to kill).

Azuza001 wrote:
I personally like the mvb, i have 2 of them and they do a great job as a distraction. Once the opponent starts shooting at them they know they have to kill it asap, or it gets stronger below 7 wounds. Problem is its cost and certain things like a knight can one shot it off the board without even blinking while the rest of its shots go somewhere else. Its crazy how strong knights are now with their d6 str 14 ap-5 3d3 dmg guns (who ever thought that was a fair weapon to put into the game should be slapped, it makes land raiders look like old school rhinos. I know you want your 600 pt pretty toy to be strong but i would also like my 350 pt best tank out there before you get to lords of war to be.... semi tough to kill).

150 for a MVB is a steal for what is basically a mortal wound/buffing-centric Giant Spawn (seriously, read the fluff, I've seen some complaints that it's not a daemon when it's basically a massive Tzeentch touched spawn) so a Knight committing to kill that is basically overkill.

That said, Knights are in that place right now where they're a little too good and I'm hoping some points changes in CA will bring them more in line with other armies.