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 luke1705 wrote:

Also I’m excited to see what Tyranids will have for chapter tactics. -1 to hit will be huge, as that seems to be pretty stock for most new armies, especially if it can stack with the Malanthrope! All of a sudden, Guilliman lists are only re-rolling 1’s! Suck it false emperor!

While it would be nice, I don't see Tyranids getting the -1 to hit at 12'' away trait since we already have access to a -1 to hit bubble in both HQ and Elite slots. As far as recycling traits goes, I expect to see the damage table mitigating one (Behemoth, maybe Leviathan), the melee damage boosting one from the Mechanicus book (another possibility for Behemoth), 6+ FNP equivalent (probably on Gorgon, as "Hyper adaptability"), and maybe the fall back from melee and shoot at -1 to hit (probably Kraken).

The only two I'm not sure about are Jormungandr and Hydra. The former has been getting a lot of attention in fluff lately (GSC codex had a cult dedicated to them and the new AM book mentions them devouring a Catachan regiment that had been sent to quell a GSC uprising) while the latter is hyped as being the next major Hive Fleet after Leviathan, so I expect both will get traits of some sort but I'm not sure what exactly. Jormungandr in the 5th edition book was noted for its excessive use of tunneling organisms so it is difficult to say what exactly its main theme is and Hydra is flat out new for the edition apart from a brief blurb on the Dark Eldar prematurely awakening it in prior books.

If we get the -1 to hit trait, it will probably have a restriction that it doesn't work with similar rules. Otherwise malanthropes become the most broken thing in the game.

To be fair, other armies have access to similar rules and got the -1. Alpha legion Obliterators near a changeling, for example. Also Alaitoc is rumored to get the -1 trait despite the faction having access to conceal and units with -1 like warp spiders or Shadow Spectres.

Tomorrow we will get the Alaitoc attribute, so we will see if it has a restriction like the Ulthwe one.

Oh I hope we get the -1 to hit one, if only to make a near immortal deathleaper - -2 from chameleonic skin, -1 from Mal and -1 from chapter tactic means its only being hit by stuff with a 2+bs. Add in the horror or mass hypnosis to make it literally unshootable without buffs to hit

The -1 at 12" rule would be a major boon to Nids simply because it makes foot slogging more possable. And Skitari have it with Stygia, and it stacks with their wacky walkers for -2....

pinecone77 wrote:
The -1 at 12" rule would be a major boon to Nids simply because it makes foot slogging more possable. And Skitari have it with Stygia, and it stacks with their wacky walkers for -2....

That might even make Venomthropes worth taking. Especially if we get some kind of price drop on them. It's fine that they can be targetted if everyone is getting a -2 to hit.

Alaitoc got the -1 to hit at over 12" away.

I really hope tyranids get it. I also hope it is not arbitrarily based on how I painted my models the wrong way. :-/

 Niiai wrote:
Alaitoc got the -1 to hit at over 12" away.

I really hope tyranids get it. I also hope it is not arbitrarily based on how I painted my models the wrong way. :-/

You can almost guarantee it'll be based on hive fleet. Not that it really matters, most people don't know which fleets are which anyways.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Alaitoc got the -1 to hit at over 12" away.

I really hope tyranids get it. I also hope it is not arbitrarily based on how I painted my models the wrong way. :-/

You can almost guarantee it'll be based on hive fleet. Not that it really matters, most people don't know which fleets are which anyways.

First, there is no rule requiring your models to even be painted, let alone painted a certain way to get certain bonuses.

Second, nid hive fleets have changed coloration planet to planet if it was an advantage worth doing. Sometimes just adapting them to process different chemicals in the air have secondary effects on coloration.

Third, how many nid players actually follow a gw color scheme instead of just making up their own?

Well, I did. Mine are leviathan.

 Niiai wrote:
Well, I did. Mine are leviathan.

I think your part of a minority. If you google img search space marines you see all the standard chapters. If you google image search tyranids you see nothing but home brew variations.

Space Marines have colour chapters because GW has put a vast amount and years worth of marketing behind them, plus they've released niche models for each marine chapter to further help identify them even down to shoulderpads. And even after all that marketing if your Blood Angles are pure white with blue details - no one cares really. Oh that's the Arctic chapter of the Blood Angles who abandoned their classic red armour in favour of white whilst battling crafty Eldar on a far off snow world - and it worked so well that they kept the colouration - done!

No other army has had that much marketing and power put behind colour variations and Tyranids are so highly variable that they pretty much don't have a "colour" scheme that is unified. Every new codex has basically had a new colour for Tyranids.

If splinter fleets are a thing I seriously doubt that anyone would enforce correct colourations at all. The only time that you would need colour coordination would be if you're mixing hive fleets so that both players can tell which is in which fleet and ergo benefits from which abilities. And honestly you could achieve that with something really simple like a coloured dot on the base or a coloured ring around the lower part of a base or any number of other subtle identification markers (its often good to have things like gaunts with a subtle marker on the carapace so that you can identify different broods on the tabletop - 30 termagunts with are red dot - 30 with a blue dot and then if they get in a mash up you can easily tell which belongs to which).


The only way GW could really empower splinter fleets is if they start releasing unique models/details for each splinter fleet.

Personally I kind of hope that they do; its a great way to expand the Tyranid range with new models without having to bloat the core army. IF Leviathan can't take biovores, but instead get access to a new unique unit that does something that ties with a theme of them - eg lest say a long range sniper specialist etc.... - then that adds flavour and means that we get a new model without bloat.

Special characters are also something I wish they'd expand on - more unique Tyranids that are limited in number but still appear on the battlefield - more Red Terrors and such - and hopefully not just evolutions of kits we currently have (swarmlord is great but would be greater still if he had his own unique looking kit)

I'm on the other side of the barricade, i would prefer if special snowflakes nids were in there but not as unique entities with a backstory. There should be no "characters" except for the swarmlord. What i can understand are prototype broods that are deployed for testing.

And even the Swarmlord isn't really a character.

Spoletta wrote:
I'm on the other side of the barricade, i would prefer if special snowflakes nids were in there but not as unique entities with a backstory. There should be no "characters" except for the swarmlord. What i can understand are prototype broods that are deployed for testing.

Aye by characters I mean specialist/prototypes/unique evolutions etc...

Ergo a way to add models that are limited in availability like other factions have.

My thoughts are that Tryanids are in a really good position model variety wise at present for the tabletop. The monstrous creature block has gone from a jack-of-all Carnifex into a series of big specialist monsters; we've got air units; troops a plenty etc... Basically most slots that need filling in a Tyranid army are filled. There's always arguments over how good things are in their respective slots; but by and large Tyranids have got most things they need.


The only real gap I can see is in a titan slot from GW. A modest titan like the knights and stompas other factions have would suit Tyranids well. But beyond that the only way I can see adding new models is to start with specialists/uniques/characters so that they can add things without breaking the army balance or resulting in units that are just worse than others and thus invalidating some options.

Splinter fleets is the other approach; fleets that might not have access to some core models but instead replace them with something else etc....

Remember, Hive fleets don't really exist. Hive Fleet is a classification the IoM uses to to talk about the different clusters of hive ships floating about. They are all part of the same macro organism.

Unless the new codex drops some radically new fluff there is only 1 Hive Mind.


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It's not going to happen but I would love to see http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Parasite_of_Mortrex

Fleets will get a Stratagem, Warlord and Faction Trait.

It’s unlikely that there’ll be Fleet specific characters, as Old One Eye and the Swarmlord both arrived in the Tyrannic War, and the latter has been universal and ubiquitous for too long to suddenly make him exclusive to a Hive Fleet of which there’s only the bare minimum scattered remnants necessary to satisfy Behemoth collectors who don’t want their colour scheme to be the Xenos equivalent of loyalist Luna Wolves.

It’d be like if they gave Guilliman another three editions of buffing IMPERIUM units as he leads militarily diverse crusades all across the galaxy, then suddenly made him affect only ULTRAMARINES - and only then if they don’t have Cassius or Chronus or Telion or him with the sword.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Well, I did. Mine are leviathan.

I think your part of a minority. If you google img search space marines you see all the standard chapters. If you google image search tyranids you see nothing but home brew variations.

I would like to point out my SW are purple with orange. :-)

 Lance845 wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Alaitoc got the -1 to hit at over 12" away.

I really hope tyranids get it. I also hope it is not arbitrarily based on how I painted my models the wrong way. :-/

You can almost guarantee it'll be based on hive fleet. Not that it really matters, most people don't know which fleets are which anyways.

First, there is no rule requiring your models to even be painted, let alone painted a certain way to get certain bonuses.

Second, nid hive fleets have changed coloration planet to planet if it was an advantage worth doing. Sometimes just adapting them to process different chemicals in the air have secondary effects on coloration.

Third, how many nid players actually follow a gw color scheme instead of just making up their own?

I never said anything about colors or paint so... chill?

I just said it'll be based on hive fleet, which is quite likely because every single book so far has been based on sub-factions.

Yeah you know we will see Leviathan, Behemoth, Kraken, Gorgon for sure.

Yes they have colors tided to them but NO one is going to tell you to repaint your army for a small bonus, everyone knows paint doesnt equal rules.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Alaitoc got the -1 to hit at over 12" away.

I really hope tyranids get it. I also hope it is not arbitrarily based on how I painted my models the wrong way. :-/

You can almost guarantee it'll be based on hive fleet. Not that it really matters, most people don't know which fleets are which anyways.

First, there is no rule requiring your models to even be painted, let alone painted a certain way to get certain bonuses.

Second, nid hive fleets have changed coloration planet to planet if it was an advantage worth doing. Sometimes just adapting them to process different chemicals in the air have secondary effects on coloration.

Third, how many nid players actually follow a gw color scheme instead of just making up their own?

I never said anything about colors or paint so... chill?

I just said it'll be based on hive fleet, which is quite likely because every single book so far has been based on sub-factions.

Im chill man. I was responding to the whole little discussion there and not with a single fragment of confrontation. I am sure the rules will be based on "hive fleets". But alitoc has nothing to worry about paint. Paint is meaningless.


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 Amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah you know we will see Leviathan, Behemoth, Kraken, Gorgon for sure.

Yes they have colors tided to them but NO one is going to tell you to repaint your army for a small bonus, everyone knows paint doesnt equal rules.

That should be true but it didnt stop a massive argument about guard regiments with models/paint equating to rules. Some people cant seem to let go of wysiwyg as a rule.

My angelic vampires in armour of crimson and gold are actually Ultramarines, this man here who came straight out of Castlevania is Tigurius...

There is no problem painting things in your own colour sceme. But there is a problem painting them in a known sceme they are not. Because the colour will contain gameplay information. It is like seeing a unit with a powerfist, asume it is a powerfist, but actually your opponent is using it as a melta gun. WYSIWUG is about having a clean play experience.

Tyran wrote:
If we get the -1 to hit trait, it will probably have a restriction that it doesn't work with similar rules. Otherwise malanthropes become the most broken thing in the game.

The Malanthrope would certainly be even more auto include than it currently is, but the thing about that -1 to hit is that there's a 12" restriction. It's not like melee bugs would become invincible. To be honest, it would just help our poor shooting gunlines have a chance against armies like IG and Robbie G...even then, I'd be pretty surprised if that WASN'T one of our hive fleet traits. I feel like Nids need something like that to stay with the curve, especially since so many other armies have a similar trait.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And FWIW about paint, I know that some events won't allow you to play an "ultramarines" army that cleary is in a DA, BA, or Salamanders color scheme. But I feel like that's not something you run into a ton any more, plus, as has been said, the Tyranid Hive fleets suffer less from a widely recognizable paint scheme. Hardly something to worry about.

Should I worry that I STILL can't come up with a paint scheme for my Tyranids army that I've been playing since the dawn of 6th edition? PROBABLY! And I swear, it's not for lack of trying!

The nice thing about the 12" is that if they are within 12", they're gonna get charged on your turn if they don't completely wipe everything out. Most people will not risk that if they can avoid it.

The other situation is resisting first turn shooting so we aren't going in to our first turn with <50% of our army left.

 Niiai wrote:
There is no problem painting things in your own colour sceme. But there is a problem painting them in a known sceme they are not. Because the colour will contain gameplay information. It is like seeing a unit with a powerfist, asume it is a powerfist, but actually your opponent is using it as a melta gun. WYSIWUG is about having a clean play experience.

Paint isnt WYSIWYG, you asking players to know ALL the fluff for ALL the armies... thats ridiculous, 1/2 the players dont even have painted models let alone a scheme to go with rules and re-paint the army.

Mine are Red, if Leviathan is the rules i like, i'm going ot have Red Leviathan.

I dont know Orks, IG, GSC, Eldar colors, Heck i have 10k+ DE and I dont know the DE colors without looking them up.

Your asking something that on one cares about other than internet argument.

How can you make a claim that no-one cares? That is a huge hyperbole. I have players in my aria I know cares about this. They have even gone to great lenghts about it.

Your "opponent" will NOT care what color your models are, as long as if you are using "different" fleets they are not identical in looks.

If you think players are suppose to know 80-90 essential "chapter tactics colors", then you are the exaggerated one.

ESPECIALLY when its NEVER been a rule before and STILL isnt a rule now to have painted models based on rules.

 luke1705 wrote:

Tyran wrote:
If we get the -1 to hit trait, it will probably have a restriction that it doesn't work with similar rules. Otherwise malanthropes become the most broken thing in the game.

The Malanthrope would certainly be even more auto include than it currently is, but the thing about that -1 to hit is that there's a 12" restriction. It's not like melee bugs would become invincible. To be honest, it would just help our poor shooting gunlines have a chance against armies like IG and Robbie G...even then, I'd be pretty surprised if that WASN'T one of our hive fleet traits. I feel like Nids need something like that to stay with the curve, especially since so many other armies have a similar trait.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And FWIW about paint, I know that some events won't allow you to play an "ultramarines" army that cleary is in a DA, BA, or Salamanders color scheme. But I feel like that's not something you run into a ton any more, plus, as has been said, the Tyranid Hive fleets suffer less from a widely recognizable paint scheme. Hardly something to worry about.

Should I worry that I STILL can't come up with a paint scheme for my Tyranids army that I've been playing since the dawn of 6th edition? PROBABLY! And I swear, it's not for lack of trying!

And the thing about -2 is that it will make Tyranids unbelievably strong against any shooting army. Space Marines would hit us on 5+, IG on 6+ and Orks wouldn't even bother shooting.

It would be basically halving the firepower of the best shooting units in the best case scenario, completely nullifying it in the worst case scenario.