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...what's the best payload to put in them?

Farseer and warlocks?
Just warlocks?
Fire dragons?
Banshees?
Harlies?

2x Harlies + 1x Fire Dragons ('combined arms' approach)
1x Harlies + 2x Fire Dragons (uber-bang-bang)
1x Harlies + 1x Fire Dragons + 1x Warlocks (because you want to)
2x Harlies/Dragons + Farseer + Banshees or Warlocks (because you need an HQ)

Or you could take advantage of the other excellent A level Heavy Support options the Eldar have .

Oh how the malfred has fallen! From Cheesemaster Solar to "how do I shot web."

Fire Dragons or Harlies. FDs can either be 5 or 6 with no Exarch, or 6 with a DBF + CS Exarch. Harlies are always 6 with Kisses, including Shadowseer.

For people avoiding Harlies for whatever reason, Scorps can work, despite the nerfed hidden fist. Banshees aren't killy enough in small numbers to go in the Falcon.

Warlocks? Maybe if you anticipate lots of 'liths, I guess.

3x harlies. Seriously, why do anything else. There's adequate antitank elsewhere in the list that doesn't compromise the dirtiest delivery combo in the game.

Crackers, to go with all that cheese.

Seriously, I'd put Harlequins in 2 and Fire Dragons in 1. But I'd never play eldar to begin with.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Oh how the malfred has fallen! From Cheesemaster Solar to "how do I shot web."

Malfred? Do you mean Mauleed?

Wow.

Malfred put Mauleed up to it!

It's ALL YOUR FAULT MALFRED!

Just a tip of the slung. Of course I know it was long ago conclusively proven that mauleed is almost certainly probably not a malfred.

I've seen pictures of Ed, and he looks nothing like a messenger's bag.

(Confused? Look at Malfred's avatar!).

mauleed wrote:...what's the best payload to put in them?

Well, your options are the Elite choice in the Eldar Codex. So you are looking at:

Banshees
Pros: Fleet (which is huge when assaulting from a Falcon). High Initiative, and will go before Genestealers, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, etc. on the charge.
Cons: Weak armor, Strength 3.
Comments: The strength 3 is the thing that cripples them. Look at how many things with T4 you can kill on the charge with 6 of them, and it is unimpressive.


Scorpions
Pros: Lots of attacks. They have a lot of attacks at strength 4, so they good against both Hordes and MEQs. Also you can give the Exarch a strength 6 powerclaw for anti-MEQs, TMCs etc.
Cons: No fleet. Hard to get into assault range from the rear of a falcon.
Comments: I like them. They are very good at killing all kinds of things

Fire Dragons
Pros: Will kill anything they shoot at. You can give the Exarch a Flamer so they can kill hordes as well as armor/high toughness things.
Cons: No armor.
Comments: Not a big fan of them. They get out, kill one thing, then die.

Harlequins
Pros: Have every special rule in the book.
Cons: Weak armor save. Anything left alive to swing back will hurt them.
Comments: You need a Shadowseerer for the grenades. Also if you are not good at rolling “6”s then they will not do much on the charge. I like to run them with a troupe leader not only for the extra leadership, but for 5 attacks with a power weapon, so you do not have to depend on rending so much.

Harlies do everything. Just take 3 squads of them.

There was a now famous army at the Baltimore GT that had Eldrad, Y’riel, 3 falcons and 3 squads of harlies. (oh, and 2x5 rangers). Had 4 massacres in 4 games, and was on table #1 where he lost do to some bad fleet-of-foot rolls.

Depends on the point level.

At 1500, it needs to be 2 x harlies and 1 x fire dragons, because the only way you're going to kill enough to win is in assault with the number of points sunk into falcons. And you need to be able to threaten enemy tanks with certain death.

At 1700 I'd use the same layout.

At 1850, you get some options, because the rest of your army can put out enough pain for you to use all fire dragons if you want (which gets you the best antitank you can get in the Eldar list, which is great!).

2x Harlequins and 1x Dragons. For troops as many biker squads with destructor spearlocks as possible. Now everything in your army can pop av14 AND wipe off hordes.

Throw in Eldrad for deployment tricks, and thats an army and half there.

Therion wrote:2x Harlequins and 1x Dragons. For troops as many biker squads with destructor spearlocks as possible. Now everything in your army can pop av14 AND wipe off hordes.

Have you tried out the destructor spearlocks?

My suspicion is they are a big, vulnerable pointsink and not much more. But that's based only very little firsthand evidence.

Longshot wrote:
Have you tried out the destructor spearlocks?

Sazzlefrats used them to good effect against me at the LA Gamesday tournament. I liked them so much I then adopted them, and they took me into the 'Ardboys finals.

They are pretty cheap, and they are good for:
#1. Killing tanks (strength 6 shooting, and strength 9 spear).
#2. Fast moving to claim table quarters.
#3. Turbo boost to get behind the enemy lines if they need to.
#4. Good against Hordes with shooting and destructor
#5. Very hard to kill. You can use JSJ to hide with the 6" assault move.
Etc.

My suspicion is they are a big, vulnerable pointsink and not much more

It's a 4 model unit with T4 and 3+ armor saves with an added invulnerable save for the champ. It doesn't cost much more than a 5 model Pathfinder squad which is let's face it the only viable alternative for troops choices. The bikes are faster, harder to kill because of their speed and JSJ and armor saves, and are overall much more versatile. They can grab objectives in the end of the game but also pose a very serious threat to those 15 point Orks we will all start seeing, all the while having that S9 spear to take some pressure off the Fire Dragons. So I repeat Blackmoor's sentiments. I like the units so much that since I can't get any more Falcons and Harlequins I'd take four or five of these Bike units in 1850 points. Remember that because of their speed you can combine each units' firepower against a few select targets.

The pattern of my liking is thus Bike Autarch, 3 Falcons, 2 Harlequin units, 1 Fire Dragon unit, 3 Bike units in 1500 points, and when going up I just add a second Bike Autarch and as many Bike units as I can. They do everything better than anything else available at that point so no need to get fancy.

It's funny that you strongly support Biker Autarchs Therion, everyone around by me thinks that I am crazy for endorsing them. Oh well. I guess it's the metagame in my area.

Capt K

Therion wrote:2x Harlequins and 1x Dragons. For troops as many biker squads with destructor spearlocks as possible. Now everything in your army can pop av14 AND wipe off hordes.

That's actually very close to what I was thinking of building. It's small and I have most of the models.

I like the idea that you can always pick your battles with this army (assuming standard amounts of terrain).

The pattern of my liking is thus Bike Autarch, 3 Falcons, 2 Harlequin units, 1 Fire Dragon unit, 3 Bike units in 1500 points, and when going up I just add a second Bike Autarch and as many Bike units as I can. They do everything better than anything else available at that point so no need to get fancy.

I have played against this army sans the extra Harlequins (more bike squads) and it is rock hard. Usually the Autarch has the lance and uses his IC status behind the Falcons to never get shot at the whole time. Sometimes you will see the Autarch substitiuted for a Farseer on bike also.

mauleed wrote:

Therion wrote:2x Harlequins and 1x Dragons. For troops as many biker squads with destructor spearlocks as possible. Now everything in your army can pop av14 AND wipe off hordes.

That's actually very close to what I was thinking of building. It's small and I have most of the models.

I like the idea that you can always pick your battles with this army (assuming standard amounts of terrain).

Just be aware it suffers from similar issues to the Tzeentch Flying Circus or the RAF - people quickly dislike playing against avoidance-style armies.

(I brought a weaker version to the Adepticon Gladiator last year - 2 Prisms, Falcon, 2x Shining Spears, 4x Spearlock squads, 1x Harlies, Eldrad, and Biker Autarch. Went 3-1, and lost to Godzilla Nids on one of the very few low LoS-blocking terrain tables there. Falcon-chasis vehicles are brutal for objective-based missions, as you can largely push your enemies off objectives through simple tank-shock on turn 6.)

Janthkin wrote:
(I brought a weaker version to the Adepticon Gladiator last year - 2 Prisms, Falcon, 2x Shining Spears, 4x Spearlock squads, 1x Harlies, Eldrad, and Biker Autarch. Went 3-1, and lost to Godzilla Nids on one of the very few low LoS-blocking terrain tables there. Falcon-chasis vehicles are brutal for objective-based missions, as you can largely push your enemies off objectives through simple tank-shock on turn 6.)

That's a cool army. You guys are really selling me on Spearlocks, especially when mixed up with Shining Spears + Autarch.

With all the animosity for multi falcon forces, what is the concensus on waveserpents?

I ask because I was planning on a very mobile force of Eldar, with all units mounted, but now I am having doubts. I just don't want people calling me a cheesemiester

Laserbait wrote:With all the animosity for multi falcon forces, what is the concensus on waveserpents?

I ask because I was planning on a very mobile force of Eldar, with all units mounted, but now I am having doubts. I just don't want people calling me a cheesemiester

With wave serpents and Dire Avengers, you can attempt a setup similar to the mechanized Tau "Fish of Fury" tactic. It's reasonably effective, but has good potential to annoy people, what with all the AV 12 skimmers whipping around the board. Though most will understand that Serpents die a LOT easier than Falcons.

Tacobake wrote:That's a cool army. You guys are really selling me on Spearlocks, especially when mixed up with Shining Spears + Autarch.

Two problems I encountered:
1) It can be hard to find enough jump-shoot-jump positions for that many bikes; they're on 50mm flying bases, remember.

2) 4 man bike squads take morale tests after 1 casualty, and are only Ld 8. And they fall back fast.

Janthkin wrote:

Tacobake wrote:That's a cool army. You guys are really selling me on Spearlocks, especially when mixed up with Shining Spears + Autarch.

Two problems I encountered:
1) It can be hard to find enough jump-shoot-jump positions for that many bikes; they're on 50mm flying bases, remember.

2) 4 man bike squads take morale tests after 1 casualty, and are only Ld 8. And they fall back fast.

I didn't consider the flying bases, I'm going to have to make lots of hmming sounds when I field them. I was thinking specifically of two squads working in concert with 2x Destructors. And yeah Guardian leadership is their achilles heel.

As far as Wave Serpents are concerned, you want to avoid expensive cargo and as mentioned Dire Avengers are a perfect fit.

I've been wanting to try Wave Serpent + Jain Zar + Doom/Fortune + 10 basic banshees, even if it gets shot down you might lose half your banshees and then it's GO TIME and you're even fearless. Meanwhile you have a WS or two with DA and Falcons w/ Harlies. Good times. Definately something I'm going to have to try out if I make to one of the tournaments, it's a bit much for beer and pretzels.

If you're running DA it's a good place to put an Autarch to get some shuripult shots not to mention ld 10 and another I6 power weapon.

Aren't bikes on the 30mm flying stand?

I thought that the 50mm is only for tanks and vypers?

What's the though process that guides a successful use of assault troops from a Falcon?

Is it the whole, rush up to the target with Falcon and shoot... Next turn jump out and kill?

whitedragon wrote:Aren't bikes on the 30mm flying stand?

I thought that the 50mm is only for tanks and vypers?

You are correct: small bikes, small base. Vypers & falcons/prisms/serpents have the larger base.

Laserbait wrote:

whitedragon wrote:Aren't bikes on the 30mm flying stand?

I thought that the 50mm is only for tanks and vypers?

You are correct: small bikes, small base. Vypers & falcons/prisms/serpents have the larger base.

Nope, he's not. I bought 24 jetbikes for Adepticon about 10 months ago; all but 3 ancient ones came with the 50mm flying base. (The ancient ones, btw, were the shuri-cannons.) Given the "use a base at least as large as the one they came with" rule, I was pretty stuck.