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I'm kicking around the idea of starting a nid army. I've always seen them as swarms of small bugs with the occasional Carnifex zeroing in for for a good round of close combat. Sad thing is I've realized that a CC carnie will almost never make it's points back, and

everyone is praising the nidzilla list. So with that in mind I'm curious, what do other people take? Also I get the gist of nidzilla 6 carnies and 2 tyrants (they probably need to be winged). But how do you best arm them for shooting? Just asking because overall their shooting

seems kinda weak. But then again I might be spoiled, I do play guard and eldar

Can only have 1 Tyrant be winged.

Most people give them twin-linked devourers.

Look in the Army List forum, lots of Nidzilla lists there.

Winning tyranid armies start with:

Walking Tyrant with 1-2 guard and venom cannon/Tl devourer, +1 bs, +1 str

2 x Carnifex with Venom cannon/Barbed strangler, +1 BS, +1 wound


You can take your pick of whatever from there, but if you don't start with that rough shootie background you are gonna get spanked by skimmer and other vehicle heavy lists.

Once you have the ability to reliably shake 2 skimmers a turn, you can do a lot of stuff.

As far as Nidzilla goes, you add 3 dakkafexes (Elite carnifexes with 2 twinlinked devourers and +1 bs), and a flying Hive tyrant with 2 twinlinked devourers, +1 bs, +1 str and implant attack, with either warp field or psychic scream (or shadow in the warp).

You then add either another gunfex or a set of 3 zoanthropes.

The rest of the list consists mostly of cheap CC tie up and similar units (e.g. genestealers, raveners, or spinegaunts).

The shooting is plenty

Whoops! Sorry.

My wife wanted a flying nid army and the thought of buying and painting 96 gargoyles at 2 to a blister in metal was a no-go

So we did the anti-nidzilla flying tyrant, flying warriors list.

Its fun to play with(and not very common) and isn't the standard fex/tyrant/stealer list like you see in most lists now.

I agree. I am building my nids slowly (its a low priority build). I have one carnifex so far and might buy a second, yep I am a swarm player.

In test games using borrowed miniatures I love the synergy between hormagaunts and genestealers.

Hormagaunts pave the way by going in first and locking the front line of troops in close combat. Genestealers behind them therefore get into combat after taking relatively few casualties.

Some players like shooty gaunts, either as cheap bullet sinks (Spinegaunts) or for genuine firepower (Devourergaunts) with Termagants fulfilling both roles.

Warriors are known to suck, however when you put wings on them, claws, talons and adrenal glands they are quite workable, and very good backup for a flyrant. While the devourer flyrant is the most effective I like my winged bugs to be purely close combat. Two talons and wings is all I need. Unlike the warriors I dont boost any of the flyrants stats. The idea being that a flyrant is able to choose his targets and is not there to try and take out a tough IC but to slaughter rank and file. Genestealers take out IC's.

My nids depart from the collective wisdom, but I feel they need to. I wont be caught dead running nidzilla, and am uncomfortable with a bland stealershock list either. Which has problems of its own. Stealershock can be devastating, but it has only one tactic and if the neermy cann stop enough of it on the first and maybe second turnh you lose. All in all it has little to do with strategy and most to do with how well the dice go on the first turns shooting. While luck is always a big factor, with one trick armies - even good ones- it is all that matters.

Unlike the warriors I dont boost any of the flyrants stats. The idea being that a flyrant is able to choose his targets and is not there to try and take out a tough IC but to slaughter rank and file.

Given that the "rank and file" is usually T4, I would think that you'd at least benefit from Toxin Sacs.

My Flyrant is:

+1 s +1 i, 2 scything talons, implant attack, warp field, toxic miasma

He murders pretty much everyone, including squads with powerfists (killzone aiming)

One thing i do suggest for your tyrants, warriors etc... the bio plasma upgrade is wonderful if you fight skimmers(hit on a 4+ ) or high intiative armies like eldar/dark eldar.

I love the look on the faces of the eldar players with the howeling banshies (assualting warriors) when they tell me they are intiative 10, and i say "so am i"

I don't think much of Bioplasma. Yes, it's good to hit skimmers, but it doesn't deny armour save even when on a monstrous creature. All the marine has to do is roll 3+ and he's save.

I play by theme. For example:

1) Heavy shooting (many gaunts, raveners, zoanthropes, dakka fex, warrior squads, sniper tyrants)
2) Heavy CC (lots of things with rending claws, genestealers, lictors, etc)
3) Stealth/speed army (scuttling genestealers, flying or leaping warriors, lictors, brood lord)

A themed army may not always work against another given army, but they are effective most of the time if built correctly. An army full of 'good stuff' won't win as often as you think, because it lacks a focus.

mughi3:

I love the look on the faces of the eldar players with the howeling banshies (assualting warriors) when they tell me they are intiative 10, and i say "so am i"

I can't imagine why. My reaction would be a big bucket of so-what. Yay, you get one attack with half a chance of hitting and half a chance of getting through my armour! You win the prizes!

tegeus-Cromis wrote:mughi3:

I love the look on the faces of the eldar players with the howeling banshies (assualting warriors) when they tell me they are intiative 10, and i say "so am i"

I can't imagine why. My reaction would be a big bucket of so-what. Yay, you get one attack with half a chance of hitting and half a chance of getting through my armour! You win the prizes!

i'll take being able to do something simo over having to take a beatdown first.
hitting on 4+ and wounding on 2+ in CC, while you still get a save, is still save rolls i am making you take.

last time this scenerio happened i lost 2 warriors and the eldar lost 10 banshies when the combat round was done.

For every 5 bioplasma Warriors, an average of 1 Banshee dies. Yay, a profit of 1 point!

One iteration proves nothing.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:

Unlike the warriors I dont boost any of the flyrants stats. The idea being that a flyrant is able to choose his targets and is not there to try and take out a tough IC but to slaughter rank and file.

Given that the "rank and file" is usually T4, I would think that you'd at least benefit from Toxin Sacs.

Sure, but if I started to tool up a Tyrant I dont know where to stop. It was easier to make him dirt cheap. Toxins are worth looking into and I had a long think about them but he is nasty enough as he is.

Well, you could just give him the Sacs and draw the line there. Aside from the 2+ to wound MEqs, it also also gives you two other significant benefits: instakilling T3 and being immune to the effects of Wych Weapons. I'd take it.

With a little discipline it's easy to make a Flyrant that's a reasonable cost and also can charge or be charged basically anything and not worry about the consequences (except Harlequins and genestealers).

~200pts is very reasonable versus 160 for a normal Tyrant that can't do those things.

My flyrant has +1 WS, +1 str, wings, and 2 talons. Sometimes a warp blast.

He comes in at about 170. I can't remember exactly how much. Pretty reasonable and he's scary as gak.

If you want to kill characters, you can change the warp blast to an implant attack.

There are tacticas. I'd advise playtesting and you'll quickly realize why the nidzilla armies tend to dominate the discussion. I'm running a 1500 point list in a short leagyue with only two venom fexxes and I'm really feeling it.

I havn't found any tacticas there are a couple of army lists but each of them use raveners. Part of me just want to take 700 points worth a 4 point gaunts and see what happens

If it's a hybrid approach you're looking for, the list I took to Baltimore was something like this:

Winged CC Tyrant
Walking shooty Tyrant
3 CC leaping Warriors
Dakkafex
Dakkafex
16 Spinegaunts
16 Spinegaunts
16 Spinegaunts
16 Termagants
16 Termagants
6 Genestealers
Ravener
Ravener
Venomfex
Venomfex
2 Zoanthropes w/ synapse and psyscream

I made it to table 6 until my lack of playing (my GT games were literally my 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th games of 40k this YEAR) caught up to me on day 2. A hybrid approach isn't as straightforward as Nidzilla or Stealer shock. You have to play it well (i.e. deal with synapse), and it takes some practice to work out the synergies between the h2h and shooting stuff. My mistakes (and I made some dumb ones) along those lines cost me on day 2. But I have no doubt that with some practice, a hybrid approach can be quite strong while looking more like a traditional Tyranid army on the table.

gorgon wrote:If it's a hybrid approach you're looking for, the list I took to Baltimore was something like this:

Winged CC Tyrant
Walking shooty Tyrant
3 CC leaping Warriors
Dakkafex
Dakkafex
16 Spinegaunts
16 Spinegaunts
16 Spinegaunts
16 Termagants
16 Termagants
6 Genestealers
Ravener
Ravener
Venomfex
Venomfex
2 Zoanthropes w/ synapse and psyscream

I made it to table 6 until my lack of playing (my GT games were literally my 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th games of 40k this YEAR) caught up to me on day 2. A hybrid approach isn't as straightforward as Nidzilla or Stealer shock. You have to play it well (i.e. deal with synapse), and it takes some practice to work out the synergies between the h2h and shooting stuff. My mistakes (and I made some dumb ones) along those lines cost me on day 2. But I have no doubt that with some practice, a hybrid approach can be quite strong while looking more like a traditional Tyranid army on the table.

I love it.
Nidzilla might be awesome, but I just feel wrong takeing so few models in something tha was suppose to be a horde army. I'll probably tweak the list and start from there.
Also you get extra point in my book for using warriors. I can't help but feel if they started out with a base 4+ save and the same points, horde armie would be much more viable.

Warriors are the key to fixing hordes. Personally, I just want to see them become cheaper, especially when it comes to shooting. That's their natural niche, but they grossly overpay for their guns (and everything else). Make them a cheap synapse unit with solid shooting AND rending claws (just in case), and you'd have a nice unit.

They're still terrific models. Why Phil Kelly didn't give them a bump is the biggest headscratcher in the Tyranid codex.

P.S. I also had scream on one Tyrant and Shadow in the Warp (Lash defense) on the other.

gorgon wrote:Warriors are the key to fixing hordes.

I've only ever run 3 Warriors, so maybe running lots is the key. Even when mine are in hard cover, they're such a tempting target that they get nailed consistently.

But give me Zoanthropes any day. The amount of fire I've seen people pour into 3 Warp-Blast/Synapse Zoeys trying to take them down is unbelievable, especially if they hug cover to protect against the inevitable Lascannon shots. That really takes the heat off the rest of my army. Many players will try to take out my synapse by shooting everything at Zoeys and the Tyrants for the first few turns. Often they'll only manage to take out one, possibly two Zoeys (and knock both Guards off my walking Tyrant) by turn 3 or 4, at which point they give up and turn to the Fexes and gribblies. By that time it's too late...

Gaunts on the flank that crumbles when a Zoey goes down will generally make it to the central Synapse in one turn and recover anyways.

I usually run mixed Nids. I start with a core of:

Walking VC/TwDev Tyrant (Enh. Senses, Toxin Sacs, Shadow in the Warp) with 2 Tyrant Guard (rending)
Flying Tyrant with 2 pairs of ST, Flesh Hooks, Toxic Sacs, Implant, +WS, +I, Miasma, Warp Field or Psychic Scream

2 Gunfexes (VC/BS, Enh. Senses, Reinf. Chitin...sometimes Bonded Exoskeleton to help with plas/lances/missiles)
1 Dakkafex (2x TwDev, Enh. Senses)

3 Zoanthropes (Synapse/Warp Blast)

4 Raveners (RC) in 2 or 3 squads

Then add Spinegaunts, Termagaunts, Hormagaunts, Gargoyles, Genestealers to taste. I do have a squad of 3 Warriors with ST/RC which I field as leaping/+I/+WS sometimes.

The Raveners, Warriors and/or Stealers will hide behind a small semicircle of MCs (Walking Tyrant, all 3 Fexes). Gaunts range wide with Zoey support. The Flyrant will go on a flank with Gargoyles and/or Hormagaunts since they can sort of keep up. On my third turn I'm usually close enough to open the MC wall and launch the Ravs/leaping Warriors/Stealers out. I find it's better to keep a small number of Stealers hidden rather than using fleet - they're just too fragile even with 4+ saves. "Let them shoot Gaunts"

I've tried the Psychic Choir thing, but so many Fearless and ATSKNF troops makes it hit or miss. I usually don't want marines to flee in combat; they'd be able to shoot me instead of being locked in their own turn! Also it limits tactics: the Choir is most effective when bunched up to apply as much LD penalty as possible to the same locations, and usually I have to drop Synapse on two of the Zoeys to get the Scream. I like my flanks mobile.

Catalyst can be fun in a gaunt-heavy list when you have opponents who hide in cover against assaults. When I'm shaving points I'll sometimes replace Warp Blast with Catalyst on a Zoey or two, or sometimes even on the walking Tyrant. The short range of the Bonesword (and the fact that it takes up a weapon slot) makes it pointless, but the 18" range of 'real' Catalyst is nice. It can even net you a couple of kills when a Fex goes down in CC.

The forced march rule that is rumored to be coming in 5th edition will be a big boost for warriors...Warriors with leaping will be nasty in hth.

everyone uses devourers, what about death spitters

Strangelooper wrote:But give me Zoanthropes any day. The amount of fire I've seen people pour into 3 Warp-Blast/Synapse Zoeys trying to take them down is unbelievable, especially if they hug cover to protect against the inevitable Lascannon shots.

I feel like we lose every time we have to throw points at Zoeys, though. They're kind of dead points and take up a HS slot that could be used on a gunfex.

@skyth: Yeah, I think forced march will help them keep up. Still wish they were cheaper, though.

gorgon wrote:

Strangelooper wrote:But give me Zoanthropes any day. The amount of fire I've seen people pour into 3 Warp-Blast/Synapse Zoeys trying to take them down is unbelievable, especially if they hug cover to protect against the inevitable Lascannon shots.

I feel like we lose every time we have to throw points at Zoeys, though. They're kind of dead points and take up a HS slot that could be used on a gunfex.

I don't know, having three identical gunfexes is kind of boring (I'd rather have two identical gunfexes and 3 identical Zoeys, heh.) Three Warp Blast/Synapse Zoeys isn't much more than a Gunfex in points, especially if you like to Bond your Exoskeletons. Also, I like having a few S10 shots that can penetrate, even if they're short range and miss half the time. They're nice for taking out Monoliths. And people seem to often forget about the no-test AP3 blast as well, and leave marines sitting in the open nearby. But I really like them as they often make it just *too* difficult to eliminate all the Synapse on the table (2 tyrants, three Zoeys, maybe a unit of Warriors).

Although I realize it was a fluke, I once had a Zoey (with one wound left, hiding in hard cover) who was charged by a C'tan (also with one wound, having just won a throwdown with an Uberfex) - and the C'tan went DOWN to the Zoey's claws! Priceless. I've had a soft spot for my Zoeys ever since.

YMMV though...

gdurant wrote:everyone uses devourers, what about death spitters

As soon as they are AP2, they'll be a viable choice.

Till then, TL Dev are better by far.

Strangelooper wrote:Although I realize it was a fluke, I once had a Zoey (with one wound left, hiding in hard cover) who was charged by a C'tan (also with one wound, having just won a throwdown with an Uberfex) - and the C'tan went DOWN to the Zoey's claws! Priceless. I've had a soft spot for my Zoeys ever since

I'd have a soft spot too.

C'Tans are immune to Zoanthrope melee attacks, fyi.