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I going in a competition in late Jan, and I'm got to decide on what I need to buy and what Ill use..
So here's what I was thinking
Emperors champ, Accept any challenge
140
Already brought
Master of sanctity, Teleport homer, Melta bombs, Holy orb of antioch, Terminator honours, Krak, Auspex Bolt pistol
150
Already brought
10 Initiates, Power fist, Meltagun, 8 Neophytes
265
Already brought just need lascannons
6 Initiates Lascannon, Plasmagun
117
Already brought just need lascannons
6 Initiates Lascannon, Plasmagun
117
Need
5 Terminators, 2 assault cannons tank hunters
255
Need
5 Terminators, 2 assault cannons tank hunters
255
Need
Land speeder, Asault cannon
80
Need
Land speeder, Asault cannon
80
Already brought
5 assault marines, 2 plasma pistols, powerfist, stormshield, melta bombs
143
Already brought
Venerable dread, heavyflamer 10, tankhunters, Extra armour, smoke launchers
148

If anyone has any advice on how to improve the List I'm still undecided on the Speeders. I could get 2 speeders or a Vindicator with POMS, but I'm not sure what will work better...

Am I assuming it's perfect than...

All of your squads are thin and vulnerable to shooting.

Termies need tank hunters...why? To get a shot at glancing AV13 from the front? Seems questionable.

1 vehicle in your army...the dread. Sorry, land speeders don't count since everything blows them up. So this means the dread gets popped until he can't shoot, then the heavy fire goes into your terminators.

You have alot of stuff, but no coherency.

Are you running:

Vehicles,
Terminators,
Power armor marines?

A little of everything is not actually a good thing.

I would probably drop the dread, add a jump pack to the chaplain, strengthen the assault unit, and use a vindicator or 2. Dunno what you would want to drop, definatley the dread, probably a couple of speeders too.

IMO...land speeders suck balls...flies hittin the wind shield could destroy the damned things.

1,2,3,6,9 of them don't suck.

It's all about how you use them.

They're great counterparts for Smurf Assault squads in a gunline Smurf army.

Theyd be good in large numbers, lets put it that way. For a massive battle, yeah, but for small engagments, not a fan. But as I always preach, its how you play and how you use them.

What's 'small'? I've seen 9 Speeders in a 1000 point game. Wasn't pretty. lol

The best load out for a templar chaplain is: Jumppack, Powerfist, Crozius. Depending on your play style, you can add a mantle. If you are running terminators in your army adding a homer is key. If you have extra points and you want to, you can add a orb. But the basic build never changes.

Additionally, if you are taking a chaplain on foot Grimaldus is the best choice hands down.
Your list looks all over the place. You really need to decide what it is that your army wants to do. Trying to create a stand and shoot Templar army won't work very well. If you are going that route a High Marshal should be your first HQ choice. Templars excel at closing the distance quickly. Utilize the units that create force multipliers for your troops (chaplains, etc.), back it up with multiple mobile shooting units (predators, etc.) and you will have good success with them.

Capt K

Ok I'll try again if anyone has a Idea for the list please write it in so I can ajust accordingly, and Stelek My squads are not overlly small, for what their trying to achieve as long as the dread and speeders(or Vidi are closer than my 6 man squads they can't be touched... Or am I missing something

Aristotle wrote:Ok I'll try again if anyone has a Idea for the list please write it in so I can ajust accordingly, and Stelek My squads are not overlly small, for what their trying to achieve as long as the dread and speeders(or Vidi are closer than my 6 man squads they can't be touched... Or am I missing something

Yeah bud, you are missing something.

Vehicles, Arty, and MC will all just shoot you--they autopass target priority tests.

Everyone else will just take leadership tests and shoot your infantry if they want.

Only IC's can't be shot if they are further than another friendly unit.

Ok, here's a break down analysis of your army.

Aristotle wrote:
Emperors champ, Accept any challenge
140

I highly recommend 'Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch'.

Many tournament armies have psykers, and this really screws them.

Aristotle wrote:
Master of sanctity, Teleport homer, Melta bombs, Holy orb of antioch, Terminator honours, Krak, Auspex Bolt pistol
150

He's fine I guess, but...try a power weapon so he's not a complete waste.

Aristotle wrote:
10 Initiates, Power fist, Meltagun, 8 Neophytes
265

Excellent squad. Add crusader seals.

Aristotle wrote:
6 Initiates Lascannon, Plasmagun
117

Drop the plasmagun and 1 initiate.

Aristotle wrote:
6 Initiates Lascannon, Plasmagun
117

Same here. You are a CC army with only 1 serious CC unit.

Add in another big squad of neo/inits. They are very hard to stop.

Two if you can (for a total of three).

Aristotle wrote:
5 Terminators, 2 assault cannons tank hunters
255

These units can provide a solid backup for your init/neo squads.

Aristotle wrote:
5 Terminators, 2 assault cannons tank hunters
255

Don't need TH but if you must I guess.

Aristotle wrote:
Land speeder, Assault cannon
80

These are good. Hide them until turn 3. Give him nothing to shoot at but your init/neo squads.

Aristotle wrote:
Land speeder, Assault cannon
80

Then deep strike your speeders (if you can/feel you need to) and your terminators and blow a chunk out of his army while your neos/inits prepare to assault.

Aristotle wrote:
5 assault marines, 2 plasma pistols, powerfist, stormshield, melta bombs
143

Convert these into points for an init/neo squad.

Aristotle wrote:
Venerable dread, heavyflamer 10, tankhunters, Extra armour, smoke launchers
148

Ven dread? No. Toss him out the door, you have NO vehicles with armor! Convert this into points for more init/neo units.

Having 3 units of 15 going across the field is not something most people want to see. Especially if they can't obliterate them (which they can't really, 15 marines is tough to down in one turn). Find a place you want to assault, and start going towards it.

Just a couple of things, Stelek:

He's fine I guess, but...try a power weapon so he's not a complete waste.

He's a chaplain. He comes with one.

Don't need TH but if you must I guess.

With TH, a rend autoglances AV14 and autopens AV13. It also doubles the chances of glancing a Falcon. For 15 points, it seems worthwhile to me, even if he doesn't end up making use of it every game.

Concur with the rest of your analysis, especially dropping the VDread.

Oh thought he was the master version. Black Templars have dumb names for their characters.

TH isn't bad, but I don't use AC to drop tanks with 12 or better armor.

TH TL Las drop them better.

But the OP doesn't have that in his list, does he? He'll have to work with what he's got to bust tanks, and TH AC is still very good. It's also strictly superior to the TH TL las in the special case of skimmers (Monolith excepted, of course) or anything else that can't be penned.

I dunno, I like my TL TH Lascannons. Eldar can't dodge them like they can AC.

Ok I'll tell you what I've got and we can work from their (also note their will no longer be land speeders)

17 initiates BP CCW
4 Powerfists
2 meltaguns
8 neophytes BP CCW (Had 10 but converted 2)
Venerable dread
15 terminators 3 assault cannons rest with SB PF
Vindicator possibly 2
5 inntiates jump troops 2 plasma 1PF with Storm shield
New devastator box so I can have (2 las/2 plas cannon/ 2 Hb/ 1missile/ 1 multimelta)
Chaplain with jumppack and BP (can just swap the packs)
emperors champion
8 marines with bolters from maccrage set
2 veterans
2 Nid hunters (Dont know why I brought them)
1 flamer 1 missile launcher

so I was thinking

Already brought
Master of sanctity, Teleport homer, Melta bombs, Holy orb of antioch, Terminator honours, Bolt pistol Frag 147
Joins 18 man squad

Emperors champion with Abhor 110
Joins 18 man squad

10 initiates, PF MG 8 Neophytes 265
Charges up front fearless

5 intiates PF 95
gives extra punch on counter assault

5 initiates PF 95
Same as above

6 initiates Las plas 117
Anti-tank Terminator MC fire support

6 initiates Las plas 117
Same as above

Vindicator POMS EA SL 163
Doom bringer/fire magnet fire till weapons destroyed or blown up

Vindicator POMS EA SL 163
Same

10 Terminators 2 assault cannons tank hunters 2 chain fists 480
comes in from chap to provide fire support cover fire

My aim is to place the Vindies and Las Plas squads over 1 edge of the board or both edges of the board (either theyll waste time popping it or they will be compacted for the crusaders to close in. since the Squads will be damaged on their charge the termies will fill gaps in the line and become a secondary tank hunter if thing become bleak the 2 small squads will advance with the large squad. Most people will ignore the smaller unit in favour of the large 1. When enemy tanks popped the Las Plas will advance to claim objectives..

If you can fill any more gaps please try Cheers

Hello anybody

Now thats an army that would scare my new orks. But you cant have the emperors champ join anyone unfortunatley, its in his special rules.

Where does it saw that it says that he can't lead join or be attached to command squads, he is just an independant charactor

Don't take a chain fists and split the Terminator squad up. (2x5 with a total of 4 assault cannons. Should be easy to convert/get.)

Drop the 5 man initiate squads, they're no good. Add 2 Tornado Landspeeders.

As Stelek already said:
Add another big, bloodthirsty, xenoslaughtering, fanatic squad of Initiates.
Drop the meltabombs and maybe the lasplas squads or one of the land speeders and keep a sinlge shooty squad.

Black Templars are a CC army that works in the new rules, IF you have enough bodies to suck up the shooting.

Don't bring Land Raiders or try to make a super shooty army, just bring enough shooting to tackle mechanized and the troops will do the rest.

Crusader Seals are key.

Stelek wrote:Oh thought he was the master version. Black Templars have dumb names for their characters.

TH isn't bad, but I don't use AC to drop tanks with 12 or better armor.

TH TL Las drop them better.

No, twin-linked lascannons do not drop things with more than AV 12 better than tankhunting assault cannons. The tank hunting assault cannon causes, on average:
Armour Glances Penetrations 10 0.44 1.56 11 0.44 1.19 12 0.37 0.81 13 0.00 0.44 14 0.07 0.37

While a twin-linked lascannon causes:
Armour Glances Penetrations 10 0.15 0.74 11 0.15 0.59 12 0.15 0.44 13 0.15 0.30 14 0.15 0.15

The lascannon is at best, equal to the assault cannon.

that comparison isn't for tankhunting lascannons though.

personally i'm a fan of tankhunter on anything that might be pointed at tanks. venerable dreads with TLLC and tank hunter sniping from the far corners of the board or tank hunting AC termies getting their hands dirty up close, it's all good. tank hunting devastators with missile launchers in an elites slot is also a staple of my marines list. the tank hunter upgrade is very points efficient on any of those units provided you actually shoot tanks.

food for thought: adding tank hunter to assault cannons doubles the number of glances they put on a falcon.

corinth wrote:that comparison isn't for tankhunting lascannons though.

Tankhunting twin-linked lascannons are marginally more effective per turn, but are less effective per point spent. Black templars also can't get tank hunting lascannons on anything other than a venerable dreadnought, so there's little point in mentioning them.

Can we try and do it without buying anything more

So noone has anymore Ideas

I'll take a TL TH Lascannon vs a TH Assault Cannon anyday.

Especially when facing *lower* armor vehicles.

Run some more math for me, it's really amusing.