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Greetings all.

As most of us have seen the new Leaked Ork Codex, and many questions have come up in regards to it (and those few who have seen the book in print can atest that it's the same word for word.) I figured I would pose the questing in regards to the Ork Psychic power 'Er we go!

As it is worded, if a weird boy is attacked to a squad, and he rolls this power, the unit he is with must be removed from the board and replacced anywhere on the board, as per Deepstrike rules. The book further indicates that this power must be resolved, even in the case that the mob is engaged in close combat with another unit.

My question has t do with transports. Obviously, if the weird boy is embarked on a transport, or is attached to a unit which is embarked on a transport, that unit is going for a ride, but what about the Transport it's self? Would you take the transport with you? If attached to a squad of Boyz in a trukk, do you place the truck, and Deep strike it, or do you, essentially, un-embark the squad as part of the deepstrike action? If the trukk moves over 12 inches, an as such would normally not be able to disembark units, could the squad still be 'disembarked' useing 'Er we GO!?

I am of the mind that, essentially, the vehicle would go with. The whole kitten-caboodle would blink out of existance only to pop back into reality at some random point on the battle field, Da Boyz inside disoriented but no worse for ware.

I'm not certain but are you even able to use Psychic powers in a transport as the model itself is not represented on the field and doesn't technically exsist for the purposes of rolling. The reason I'm not certain is a friend found an FAQ allowing his Space Wolf Wolf Priest use one in a transport so again not entirely sure.

Plus I don't know how the 'Er we go works as I haven't seen the leaked codex.

A psyker can do anything a normal unit in a transport can do, such as shoot out of it, etc... Unless the ability specifies that the model must me on the board, then it can use it.

In any case, the Ork Weird boy MUST use a psychic power EVERY TURN. He gets no choice in the matter. He makes the psychic test, and then rolls on a table to see what power he just succeeded in using. At least the Mob Rule rule specifies that that the Weird Boy can use the unit size of the unit he's in to make his Psychic test. He still fails and takes a Perils attack on on Boxcars, but that's due to the wording of Perils of the Warp, not because he rolled more then his LD.

Going off what you posted, I'd say no, the vehicle doesn't go. You said "the unit he is with", he's not "with" the transport, he's in it. The squad he's with and the transport are separate units, even if it's a dedicated transport.

Looking at the codex, and taking general orkiness into account, I reckon that the wierdboy and his squad will "tellyport" out of the vehicle.
It just feels right.

Maxis Lithium wrote:A psyker can do anything a normal unit in a transport can do, such as shoot out of it, etc... Unless the ability specifies that the model must me on the board, then it can use it.

In any case, the Ork Weird boy MUST use a psychic power EVERY TURN. He gets no choice in the matter. He makes the psychic test, and then rolls on a table to see what power he just succeeded in using. At least the Mob Rule rule specifies that that the Weird Boy can use the unit size of the unit he's in to make his Psychic test. He still fails and takes a Perils attack on on Boxcars, but that's due to the wording of Perils of the Warp, not because he rolled more then his LD.

Ahh ok thanks for clearing that up man. I think I'd prefere to see the entire trukk fly through the waghh just for comedy sake

Maxis Lithium wrote:A psyker can do anything a normal unit in a transport can do, such as shoot out of it, etc... Unless the ability specifies that the model must me on the board, then it can use it.

This is incorrect. The rulebook FAQ specifies:

"As transported models are not physically on the table, they cannot do anything (unless differently specified). The only exception is firing weapons (and using psychic powers and abilities that replace a weapon) from one of the vehicle's Fire Point or from an open-topped transport."


The Wierdboy rules specify that only the Frazzle and Zzap results count as having shot a weapon, so those are the only two results that have any effect while a Wierdboy is mounted in a Trukk. Any other result simply has no effect because the psyker isn't on the table.

yakface wrote:

Maxis Lithium wrote:A psyker can do anything a normal unit in a transport can do, such as shoot out of it, etc... Unless the ability specifies that the model must me on the board, then it can use it.

This is incorrect. The rulebook FAQ specifies:

"As transported models are not physically on the table, they cannot do anything (unless differently specified). The only exception is firing weapons (and using psychic powers and abilities that replace a weapon) from one of the vehicle's Fire Point or from an open-topped transport."

Thats what I thought myself. So you can in theory put a Sorcerer into a Rhino and have him launch Shooting psychic attacks out of it?

Voodoo_Chile wrote:

Thats what I thought myself. So you can in theory put a Sorcerer into a Rhino and have him launch Shooting psychic attacks out of it?

Yes, but only attacks that replace shooting, so no 'gift of Chaos' out of a Rhino, for example.

yakface wrote:

Voodoo_Chile wrote:

Thats what I thought myself. So you can in theory put a Sorcerer into a Rhino and have him launch Shooting psychic attacks out of it?

Yes, but only attacks that replace shooting, so no 'gift of Chaos' out of a Rhino, for example.

Sure, No warptime and the like. Ranges measured from the top hatch yeah? Just thinking mainly for Winds of Chaos and where to put the template.

Voodoo_Chile wrote:

Sure, No warptime and the like. Ranges measured from the top hatch yeah? Just thinking mainly for Winds of Chaos and where to put the template.

Yep, you place it touching the fire point, which in this case is the top hatch. So anywhere touching the top hatch and you're good to go.

Brilliant thank you man. Thoughts of a mobile Thousand Sons uber flamer already spring to mind

Ah! thanks. That answers my quandary nicely. Marci Buckets Yakface.

Though your response does bring on a nicely off-topic question. If he is in a transport (I.E. rhino) can a Chaos Sorcerer use the Psychic ability "Lash of Submission?" It is used in lieu of making a shooting attack. It specifically reads as follows:

A Psyker may use this psychic power in the shooting phase instead of using another ranged weapon."

So one can see that the wording implies that the attack is a weapon, but it does not specify that it counts as a shooting attack. For example, it does not spessify that it counts as an assault weapon, so it does not say that you can assault after using it, but it also fails to indicate that you can NOT charge after doing so, and as such one would assume that you could assault. As such, while one might assume that you can use the Lash from a Vehicle, but psychic attacks such as Doom Bolt or Bolt of change are the only spells that actually say they count as a weapon.

I am normally not so nitpicky, but now I'm curious.

Edit: Winds also indicates that it is a shooting weapon. Specifically a Template weapon. Though, I must ask, if you measure the Winds of Chaos from the access hatch, would not then the Rhino be technically under the template, and as such be hit by the attack? Would you then not be able to fire the template, as you are not allowed to place templates over friendly models? (Before scatter in applicable cases.)

I think I would lean towards the lash being allowed to "fire" out of a vehicle based on the wording of the FAQ.

Hehe yeah I do love these cascading off topic events that happen

I'd say since you can assault after using Lash normally it'd probably work in this case. Thats how I'd play it myself anyway. Of course since an LR doesn't have firing points you can only really use it to assault out of an unmoved Rhino.

Back on the orky power table. I'm seriously considering using Old Zogwort in my army. Just going by what others have said, I'd guess that he could use his curse power out of the transport that he is riding in. Its more or less like a shooting attack. It has a target and an effect with a range limit.

I probably just over-arguing semantics, but in the weirdboy entry with Ere We Go, it says that the unit is PLACED on the table via the deepstrike rules, but does that mean they are totally under the jurisdiction of deepstrike rules, so no assault?

I'd just like to be clear since I'll be using a Warphead tomorrow and I'd like to know if I can assault out of the Ere We Go or just shoot, since that will change which big old mob of boys I put the Warpie with.

I am assuming that I am just reading into the rules and that placed does give the impression that the mob is bound by all deepstrike rules, not just how to physically put them on the table.

Yup, they're placed on the table just like a unit deepstriking in from off the table. The vehicle doesn't go to as it's a separate unit restricted to carrying only one unit. If they're placed on the table just like a deepstriking unit then they are placed on the table just like a unit that was not on the table. Units in transports are not on the table, but that's not a problem for deepstrike.

While "Ere we go" isn't problematic, the "Eadbanger" seems to be more problematic for Weirdboyz inside vehicles. Two move powers are basically shooting attacks, in which case 'ard case vehicle will count as open-topped as the Weirdboy'z fizzing head is stuffed out a fire point. One power gives the Orks the option of fleeting instead of shooting, which interacts with the entire army, and one power that affects his unit, neither of which are relevant to being in a vehicle. Exploding in a tightly packed vehicle seems pretty hard though.

I think this needs further consideration, although handling it like a hit against the vehicle by the Wierdboy'z head, so center the template on the vehicle and roll armour penetration. Two hits if it's open-topped.

I'm 99% sure that you can't assault. they are placed on the table using the Deepstrike rules, and not being able to assault after doing so is part of the Deepstrike rules.

And yea, I loves me some Zogwort. Is the Curse used in the shooting phase? If yes, then it would most likely be allowable out of a transport. If not, then nope!

It just occurred to me that the relation of Ork psychic randomness to Ork vehicles permits you to use Weirdboyz in vehicles, but at the expense of benefitting from 'ard case or from at the expense of lightly armoured vehicles. A Weirdboy going boom in a trukk is bound to go badly, but a Weirdboy in a battlewagon would be safe. Can you say Weirdboy battle-towers?

Actually the 'ed banger result is a non issue. According to the rules for it, you have to place the blast template over the wierdboy. However when embarked (open topped or not) the wierdboy is not on the table. Thus it is impossible to center the blast template on him. Thus null effect.

The only powers that a wierdboy could get that actually have no effect (when riding in a transport) is Warpath as there are no orks around him to get +1 attack and 'edbanger for the reasons I stated above.

I also agree that with 'er we go you cannot assault, because you are using the deep strike rules and there is no exception listed in the power that negates the cannot move and assault portion of the deepstrike rules.

The Ork Weirdboy could have joined a unit that mounted the transport he shares with them. Likewise positioning a blast template over the vehicle containing the Weirdboy seems fairer than just waving the effect.

But, its a S6 hit. Against which armor, side, back, front? There is no top armor value and there is nothing saying where the wierdboy is in the transport. Now you gotta make stuff up. Fair or not, your making a whole new situation that the rules have absolutely no information on.

Hey, I also had a similar question: what if the wierd boy is placed in a squad that is so large that it cannot fit under the template? I haven't ever tried it and I haven't done the math but I'm not sure that a squad of 30 boyz will fit under it. It seems kind of unfair to have them "lost to the warp" or some such thing just because da rulez boyz didn't consider this happening.

Plan ahead. Its a risk you have to take. There is no template anymore. You place rings around the model in the middle. If you do not have the space to make the rings, the orks are indeed lost. So plan ahead, sticking him in a group of 30 may not be the best idea.

I'm really considering Old Zogwort with a unit of 15 tankbustas. It just seems like a great place to put him. If they do teleport, I'd think DS placement of tons of rokkits is really going to make the other guy cring.

Yes him with 30 boys would be a bad idea, its almost impossible to find that much free space to safely deepstrike, without throwing away a large chunk of your horde possibly.

Jayden63: If he's inside the vehicle then it seems fair that the roll would be against the rear armour, which on Ork transports is the thinnest and best represents the effect of a Weirdboy 'eadbangin' in a tightly enclosed space. Of course it could just be resolved like the vehicle is a bunker so the co-transportees are hit but get a cover save.

Nurglitch, just to get things staight, you are aware that this would be no more than a house rule, and acknowledge that the RAW way is that it does nothing, right? Just checking.

tegeus-Cromis: Of course I would acknowledge that interpreted in the RAW way that the 'eadbang psychic power has no effect of the Weirdboy has embarked upon a vehicle. However I would also acknowledge that RAW is not a semantically valid (aka 'Truth-preserving') method of interpretation, and as such attach no value to conclusions reached by it.