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Or rather, why are Repentia even on the army list?

I'm a Sister Player and aside from the lack of long ranged weapons the second biggest problem is, for an army that excels in less then 12" they really suck in close combat.

So Repentia were my first choice to help combat heathens and heretics in CC. Double strength, 2d6 armour pen, they charge is they fail a moral check and even in the fluff they kick more bottoms then an Eversor with a salad fork.

Then they got shot up, each and every game. Either that or the process of keeping them covered till they get to close enough means my opponent has brought their own CC troops or a large squad of cannon-fodder in as their only opponent.

Last time I believe anything may match the fluff.

And so, I am now back at square one till I faced GK Termies in an IG force.
They ate my Penitent and half of all my sisters in CC in the course of three turns. (Damn Deep Strike)

And so, once Xmas is over I'm considering getting a full squad of them (10 including psycannon)

At first glance they seem to be worth 3 repentia each and only cost a little more then two of the useless BDSM girls.

Are they really worth it in the end?

On a side note, is there anyway to ever make Repentia worth their cost or was it some kind of joke on GW behalf?

Repentia are part of the Carnival.

You want Sister CC, bring Seraphim and Canoness backup.

They are not worth it, and they're a joke.

T3 Sv4+. Swing last in HTH. Slow.

All of these things add up to a unit that should never be used.

Avoid Repentia at all costs.

BYE

I'll join in the chorus: Repentia would be an iffy choice if they were 1/2 their current cost. As is, they're likely the single worst unit in all of 40K.

Penitent Engines are right up there with Repentia for single worst unit.

I was thinking as much. The highlight of their career was a death or glory attack aginst a Land Raider with five termies inside. the twelve of them scrapped the Raider and then effortlessly slaughtered all the tin-cans within two turns. It won me the game.

But not many players field such large groups of points in a situation I can exploit so easily.

But why did GW make them so horrible? Shouldn't play-tesing reveal such horrible units for what they are before the codex gets released?

Stelek wrote:Penitent Engines are right up there with Repentia for single worst unit.

I don't know, my single Penitent normally makes up for its points per battle. I play mech sisters so I have plenty of rinos for it to hide behind till it's where I want it.

Still, are GK termies worth it or was I just suffering a perticular stroke of bad luck that day?

If I remember correctly they did a 'behind the scenes' article where they admitted to running a pitifully small number of test games with the witchhunters codex. Along with other gems like 'this seemed a little too good, so we doubled it's cost and took away fleet'.

Anyone remember the specifics of what I'm vaguely recalling here?

Stelek wrote:Penitent Engines are right up there with Repentia for single worst unit.

Normally I would agree with this statement, but in COD, penitent engines are actually really good.

Repentia are simply a perennial bad choice. Nothing makes them good. Shame.

As far as GK termies go, they are pretty much worth it. The best termies in the game some people have said.

Kettu wrote:I don't know, my single Penitent normally makes up for its points per battle. I play mech sisters so I have plenty of rinos for it to hide behind till it's where I want it.

Interesting. You cannot hide a Penitent engine behind Rhinos, buddy.

Stelek wrote:
Interesting. You cannot hide a Penitent engine behind Rhinos, buddy.

How so? I've been doing it so far and no ones said anything about it.
That was even a tactic mentioned in WD at one point.

Kettu wrote:
How so? I've been doing it so far and no ones said anything about it.
That was even a tactic mentioned in WD at one point.

Given that the Engine is taller than the Rhino, the only way to use it to completely block Line of Sight is through improper application of the Area Terrain rules (basically treating the Rhino as LOS blocking Size 3 area terrain when in fact it is not).

Oh boy. Tactics + White Dwarf Article = funny.

Alpharius Walks wrote:
Given that the Engine is taller than the Rhino, the only way to use it to completely block Line of Sight is through improper application of the Area Terrain rules (basically treating the Rhino as LOS blocking Size 3 area terrain when in fact it is not).

By half a cm?
I just lined the two up and had a look from their perspective and yeah, not much is visible at all.
Plus the fact that the Penitent is a wild machine of death that can't sit still even if the Emperor demanded it and so it would be even harder to get a bead of fire over the top of the Rhino at the half a metre worth of metal.

And as I said, I havn't had any trouble about it before. (about twelve games since I got the penitent.) Maybe the people in my suburb are just a nice bunch.

@Stelek

I know, I know... Still they have a few great tricks from time to time I've used to gain a few wins.

Best White Dwarf tip:

When new army sucks, rewrite scenario and rework points until new army ROCKS!!!!!!! Then sell.

I was always told that the best White Dwarf tip was to just look at the pretty pictures.

Iorek wrote:I was always told that the best White Dwarf tip was to just look at the pretty pictures.

Sorry Iorek, but that was only true half a decade ago.

The best White Dwarf tip now is "DO NOT BUY! GO AWAY! SAVE YOUR MONEY!"

I believe that is a direct quote from Andy Chambers...

::donning bullet proof vest::

Here we go.
Seemingly LONE dissenting voice.

I disagree on the uselessness of Repentia. They are better than anyone's giving them credit for.

I have to ask, though... What size unit are you using?
Repentia begin to excel at about 13 (15 - 16 is best) strong with a mistress and a preacher (give the preacher 4+ armor & an Eviscerator).

They die rather easily. I'll give you that. But you should understand... First off, anything they manage to get into HtH with is going to get a whooping. Secondly, even if they all die to shooting, that's a whole lot of shots (barring lucky/unlucky dice rolls) that aren't going into the rest of your army.

I play Repentia in almost every WH army I play, and I've only regretted them once (good & bad dice rolls combined to lose the whole unit in Turn 1 with FAR LESS shooting than it should have taken).
I've seen them walk through just about everything on the board, at one time or another (including 2 tricked out MOT Daemon Princes with Warptime and a greater daemon at the same time).

It's about how you play them. If they're the biggest threat, then sure. You're in trouble.
If the force is properly balance, your opponent is in trouble if he wastes too much shooting on them.

Is the Sister Superior the first casualty you take from the unit? If no, then why not? As soon as you take her out, they get their extra d6 move on every turn.

While I can understand that some people don't like them, I think they're maligned.

Oh. I guess it's important to note, also, that we play 2500 point games.


Eric

Yeah, at 2500 points you can run horrible units and not mind their loss.

At 1000-1750, you can't run Repentias as they run way too many points.

Last time I played against them, my Ulthwe Seer Council killed all of them in a single assault phase, sans the Priest.

Repentia are one of the worst units in the game. I mean really. Sure the giant chain saw looks good, but there is no way to get them into hand to hand. Without a 3+ or better save on them (which they don't have) they just get chewed to bits by anything with a gun that shoots farther than 12 inches. Heck, a rhino full of anything can just drive up, jump out and rapid fire them off the board. They really suck. Heck, any unit in the game can just walk 6" away from them every turn and be just as well off. Hand to hand units that don't have some sort of enchanced movement ability (fleet, 12" charge, jump packs, or a transport) are just pretty shelf decorations / paper weights.

Kettu wrote:But why did GW make them so horrible? Shouldn't play-tesing reveal such horrible units for what they are before the codex gets released?

Hahahahahaha! Oh that's great. You think GW play tests the stuf they write.... ahhhh that's a good one.

MagickalMemories wrote: Repentia begin to excel at about 13 (15 - 16 is best) strong with a mistress and a preacher (give the preacher 4+ armor & an Eviscerator).

They die rather easily. I'll give you that. But you should understand... First off, anything they manage to get into HtH with is going to get a whooping. Secondly, even if they all die to shooting, that's a whole lot of shots (barring lucky/unlucky dice rolls) that aren't going into the rest of your army.

I've seen them walk through just about everything on the board, at one time or another (including 2 tricked out MOT Daemon Princes with Warptime and a greater daemon at the same time).

I must agree that anything (including big deamon princes and land raider) that ends up in hand to hand with the repentia will end up dead. That's not the problem with repentia. The problem is that if they ever end up in hand to hand, its because your opponent let them and thus he deserves to lose whatever he put there. All you have to do to completely nutralize them is walk away. That's the crux of them sucking. That and the fact that they die quickly to small arms fire.

On the 'can I hide a Penitent behind a Rhino?' question, am I right in thinking you can convert the Penitent so that it can easily be hidden?
I'm thinking a conversion based off of a Necron Tomb Spider would do this quite well.

Kalkyrie wrote:On the 'can I hide a Penitent behind a Rhino?' question, am I right in thinking you can convert the Penitent so that it can easily be hidden?
I'm thinking a conversion based off of a Necron Tomb Spider would do this quite well.

yeah, as yak's signature proclaims, you can use modeling to your advantage.

but it's still a penitent in a slot meant for exorcists.

Kettu wrote:
Still, are GK termies worth it or was I just suffering a perticular stroke of bad luck that day?

If you go with Termies, go with two squads of 4 (HQ and Elite ally). You can get 4 Psycannons if you equip the Brother-Captains with one each and get the one through the squad.

MagickalMemories wrote:::donning bullet proof vest::

Here we go.
Seemingly LONE dissenting voice.

I disagree on the uselessness of Repentia. They are better than anyone's giving them credit for.

I have to ask, though... What size unit are you using?
Repentia begin to excel at about 13 (15 - 16 is best) strong with a mistress and a preacher (give the preacher 4+ armor & an Eviscerator).

They die rather easily. I'll give you that. But you should understand... First off, anything they manage to get into HtH with is going to get a whooping. Secondly, even if they all die to shooting, that's a whole lot of shots (barring lucky/unlucky dice rolls) that aren't going into the rest of your army.

I play Repentia in almost every WH army I play, and I've only regretted them once (good & bad dice rolls combined to lose the whole unit in Turn 1 with FAR LESS shooting than it should have taken).
I've seen them walk through just about everything on the board, at one time or another (including 2 tricked out MOT Daemon Princes with Warptime and a greater daemon at the same time).

It's about how you play them. If they're the biggest threat, then sure. You're in trouble.
If the force is properly balance, your opponent is in trouble if he wastes too much shooting on them.

Is the Sister Superior the first casualty you take from the unit? If no, then why not? As soon as you take her out, they get their extra d6 move on every turn.

While I can understand that some people don't like them, I think they're maligned.

Oh. I guess it's important to note, also, that we play 2500 point games.


Eric

I normally have a full unit of twenty along with a priest so I can get the penitent. (Now he's with a battle sister squad armed with flamer and heavy flamer.)
At first I hid them behind a squad of IG but they got shot up and so I would field them behind my rhinos or cover hug. If my opponent can't shoot them then he'll just get his cc troops to charge me (as almost every single one moves faster) or large squads of useless troops eg IG conscripts.

HQ, Heavy support, Tanks and MC all die very quickly, even termies. (Especially termies)
However they are an amazingly heavy points sink for a kamikaze glass hammer.
I also field two Exorcists (love those pipe organs) and if not the penitent then a Retribution squad with heavy bolters and an Immolator.

I'm normally in 1000+/- point games and so even then it'll normally be just one Exorcist with my Penitent as any more means less troops in the field.
The few times I've played a 2000+ games the points issue is basically a null argument but I still need a cc squad for smaller battles and Repentia are a real hit and miss affair with more misses then hits.

@Moz

That would explain so much about the codex.

Kettu wrote:I disagree on the uselessness of Repentia. They are better than anyone's giving them credit for.

Might I ask at wich point level you field them?

They are the second worst unit next to the Necron Pariahs and Priests. The Pentinent Engine wouldn't be that bad, if you wouldn't loose an Exorcist and must bring a totally useless, overcosted Priest without a unit you can put him into.

As somebody who has seen arco, repentia and penitents on the table numerous times, often in the same army, i can say with conviction they all suck horribly.

As CC units go, the only one the sisters have that is good is the seraphim.

In addition to all the problems listed previously(fragile, high points, costs, slow) the fact that all of these CC units go berserk and become uncontrollable (even being forced to attack things they cannot hurt) only adds to thier uselessnes.

Sisters excell at short range shooting and the strategic use of faith. thats thier stongest assets, not their CC units.

corinth wrote:

Kalkyrie wrote:On the 'can I hide a Penitent behind a Rhino?' question, am I right in thinking you can convert the Penitent so that it can easily be hidden?
I'm thinking a conversion based off of a Necron Tomb Spider would do this quite well.

yeah, as yak's signature proclaims, you can use modeling to your advantage.

but it's still a penitent in a slot meant for exorcists.

Yeah, ran into a guy had a 'low' penitent engine at a GT.

Another doofus had Wraithlords lying down.

Shot both anyway.

GW doesn't like modeling cheats.

mughi3 wrote:As somebody who has seen arco, repentia and penitents on the table numerous times, often in the same army, i can say with conviction they all suck horribly.

As CC units go, the only one the sisters have that is good is the seraphim.

Maybe you should try the assassingoodness of 1 Eversor and 3+ DCAs.

vogelfrei wrote:

Kettu wrote:I disagree on the uselessness of Repentia. They are better than anyone's giving them credit for.

Might I ask at wich point level you field them?

They are the second worst unit next to the Necron Pariahs and Priests. The Pentinent Engine wouldn't be that bad, if you wouldn't loose an Exorcist and must bring a totally useless, overcosted Priest without a unit you can put him into.

That wasn't Kettu. That was me.
S'all good, though. LOL

In my original post, it says that we play 2500 point games.

I agree with everyone on how to avoid neitralize them (avoid them). it's not always possible, though.

A unit in 4+ cover in the middle of the deployment zone has a nice strong foothold on the board. If they're played off to one side or the other, you can usually avoid them (more difficult for less mobile armies).

I don't know that I agree on the uselessness of certain units, though. Chaos bikes are pretty useless now, if they're not MoT (Possibly MoN, but that's debatable).

Eric