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Which Heavy Support Choice to Take

[b]I need to know the pro's and con's of each set up based on the heavy support choices in each list. I intentional left the Hq and Elites out of the list because they are set in stone so far. I use three squads of harlequins (10/10/ and 6) and an Autarch on jetbike with fusion gun and star lance. This is a 1,850 list with no fast attack choices. I was trying to builld a primarily close combat army with some fire support. I was trying to see which would work better with the harlequins. The Wraith lords are versatile in fire support and close combat but need to be babysitted. The Fire Prisms are versatile in being able to strike tanks and infantry but does not have any close combat capabilities. I have play tested both with both being undefeated so far in the last three months in pick up games. However, I am going to an RTT, and would like to balance my list to both fight space marines and ork forces. I know the orcs will be there in mass with the new release.
Anyway I need some strategic suggestions, not just critiques of the list, but input in to the use of both in conjunction with the harlequin and Autarch setup. Basically, I want to know how to better support my harlequin assault.


List One
Troops
Jet bike Squad One (6 bikes/ 2 with shuriken cannon)
Jet bike Squad One (6 bikes/ 2 with shuriken cannon)
Jet bike Squad One (5 bikes/ 1 with shuriken cannon, Warlock with destructor, jetbike, spirit seer, and singing spear)

Heavy Support
WraithLord One (Missile Launcher and brightlance)
WraithLord Two (Missile Launcher and brightlance)

Falcon (Star Cannon, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones, shuriken cannon, and holofields)
-A squad of Harlequins will ride in this

List Two
Troops
Jet bike Squad One (6 bikes/ 2 with shuriken cannon)
Jet bike Squad One (6 bikes/ 2 with shuriken cannon)
Jet bike Squad One (6 bikes/ 2 with shuriken cannon)

Heavy Support
Fire Prism (Holofields, Spirit Stones)
Fire Prism (Holofields, Spirit Stones)

Falcon (Star Cannon, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones, shuriken cannon, and holofields)
-A squad of Harlequins will ride in this

Which one better supports my harlequin assault.

I'd say both are about the same for anti-tank. Wraithlord might have a slight edge, but then it's more expensive too. (I personally don't use upgrades on Fire Prisms other than Vectored Engines).

Against infantry, Fire Prisms have shock value. They can annhilate MEQ and other squads from turn 1 whereas the Wraithlord is a long term threat. The WL is more like if you don't have a power fist he's going to munch your squads and there is nothing you can do about it. Harlies themselves are shock infantry, and this brutal offensive power is probably better complimented by Fire Prisms.

Defensively, it can go both ways. Fire Prisms have range but on the other hand Wraithlords are in your face and need to be killed.

Give me more, you can't stop there, you info was so good so far.
The fire prism set comes in about 10 points higher than the Wraithlords.

I am scared of taking the fire prism set up because I will not have a bright lance in my list. I am kind of bright lance dependent. Can the jetbike squads play a part in an anti-armor role.

Wraithlord is fine. It will eventually die against very shooty armies with lots of heavy weapons.

Falcons can be very survivable, or die first shot.

Sitting Wraithlords in buildings and forests makes for very annoying units of spammy death that are difficult to kill.

There are two reasons to bring Prisms.

Blast templates.
S9 anti-tank.

fire prisms are a better match with the mobility of your bikes. those bikes would be better in 6 groups of 3 btw.

i don't really see how bright lances do anything for you that fireprisms can't. the prism is actually better against a monolith. ground bound vehicles can be ripped up by harlies if need be.

prisms also give you a stronger victory point denial option. JSJ bikes can hide, harlies are invulnerable at range and grav tanks are the next best thing to unkillable.

List one has more anti tank fire power than list two. The dreadnaughts simply put out more anti tank fire power than the prisims do even if it is at shorter range and without the option of going anti infintry. They tend to be more reliable too since they have to be killed all the way dead inorder to keep them from shooting where as the fire prisims just have to be glanced. On the down side, the dreadnaughts are less mobile than the fire prisims, so if the enemy is hideing tanks (bassalisk or the like) you are going to have to send the falcon after it.

As for the bikes, with shuriken cannons and a turbo boost, they should be able to threaten the rear armor of just about anything. The only down side is you'll have to wait for the quins to hit the enemy lines first or you're going to be sucking up too much return fire. If you really want to bump up their anti tank power, give them warlocks with singing spears.

If babysitting your dreadnaughts is an issue, you can always include a minimum sized guardian squad with a warlock to hang out with them. Its cheep and you get a heavy weapon in it too.

Which list would fight against hordes of orks and nids best.

Which list would fight against imperial guard infantry list best.

Which list would fight against tank heavy list best.

Which list would fight against space marine infantry list best.

Which list would fight against Tau list best.

How do you guys feel about the fact that a wraithlord cannot be stunned hence it can keep firing as long as it has wounds left. However a fire prism with spirit stone that gets stunned can keep moving but it cannot keep shooting. Is taking two fire prism worth this risk. What are the negatives for taking two wraithlords. I intend to use them as a walking fire base that slowly threatens the enemy by approaching their lines along with the harlies. However, the fire prism scheme is also a mobile fire base that blasts away at the enemy from a distance where as the wraithlord get closer and closer.

rcm2216 wrote:I intend to use them as a walking fire base that slowly threatens the enemy by approaching their lines along with the harlies. However, the fire prism scheme is also a mobile fire base that blasts away at the enemy from a distance where as the wraithlord get closer and closer.

I actualy wouldn't recomend getting the dreadnaughts closer to your enemy. Doing so only gets you closer to being in range for short range weapons that are likely to kill you (melta guns, plasma, power fists and the like). If you keep them back at range (30"-36") you can dish out almost as much damage as you do in hand to hand and take significantly less damage then you would if you moved up. Sitting back in cover adds even more survivability.

List #2 is better, but you will not win any friends.

rcm2216 wrote:Which list would fight against hordes of orks and nids best.

Tough call. I would say Wraithlords because of flamers and close combat. Note that neither has particularly good anti-skimmer fire power and you're already bringing a Falcon. They can however handle Wraithlords.

what do you mean by no friends. Can you explain why list 2 is better.

rcm2216 wrote:what do you mean by no friends. Can you explain why list 2 is better.

He probably meant that while the Prisms and Falcon may be shaken for most of the game they will soak up firepower, deny victory points and can hold objectives in the end. It's very frustrating for an opponent.

This is opposed to the Wraithlords which will probably quite boringly present themselves, shoot a few times and get taken down to one or two wounds between them at best.

@what do you mean by no friends. Can you explain why list 2 is better.

Eldar skimmers are said to be totally broken and almost unkillable because Holo-fields combined with the other upgrades make the odds downing them like 1/36 I think so 3 of them flying around is common place Mech Eldar. This makes them great for VP denial and objective grabbing.

rcm2216 wrote:what do you mean by no friends. Can you explain why list 2 is better.

The others have explained it.

You have what is called a “victory point denial” list.

That means that it is very hard to get victory points off of. You have fast moving Jetbikes that can shoot and move behind cover (and turbo boost), Harlequins that have Veil of Tears, and then you have nearly unkillable skimmers.

Since a lot of armies can’t do anything to hurt you, they really don’t like it. You will win a lot of games, but your opponents will not have any fun playing you.

rcm2216 wrote:Which Heavy Support Choice to Take

[b]Basically, I want to know how to better support my harlequin assault.

Which one better supports my harlequin assault.

Is it OK to suggest 2 Falcons carrying Harlequins and 3rd Falcon carrying Fire Dragons?

I have saw a lot of hate directed towards harlies being put in falcons. I hate deamon bombs, but I found a way to compensate, soon people will compensate for the three falcon harlie attack. Me personally will not field that type of army. This list I posted has only been played once, because I like having as many scoring units as possible. I use to field two wave serpents in my list and found that it caused me to lose sometimes because of all the points placed in the wave serpents could not be used by myself to claim objectives. So it was my intent to build an all scoring list Eldar army with the exception of the HQ.

How could I make the wraithlords work with first list.

i don't think you have to worry about them not working. wraithlords are great units. it's just that the second list is more competitive.

but if you want to build around wraithlords you could make a firebase of guardian squads with an avatar. a warlock with the guardians takes care of the wraiths. throw in eldrad for guide and whatnot.

but i like mobile lists better.

Basically, I want to know how to better support my harlequin assault.

You basically need to approach with the Falcon so that next turn the Harlies can dismount, move, fof, and charge.
Remember that you cannot turn the Falcon around for disembarking as vehicles can only be turned around in the shooting phase.
So this needs planning.

i cut out the middle man in my eldar army. my 2000 point list runs 3 fire prisms and i rarely regret it. you have alot of options wit three prisms runnign around the board.

linking is great. when you definatly want to knock out something i always link up at least 2 prisms. ive never linked all 3 prisms before, but i have double linked to destroyed a LRC and a squad of marines with the big template, which becomes str 6 AP 3 when double linked.

for apoc i add a squad of reapers, and im planning on a wraithlord too.