Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Doctrines:
Mechanized
Die-Hards
Iron Discipline

Points for doctrines already added to the list.

Basicly my "Mechaized Death Korps of Kreig list", really want to add in a Commissar because I have the model and always wanted one but just cant justify the points for it.

HQ

Colonel
Lascannon
Standard

116 Pts

Chimera
Turret Multi-Laser
Hull Heavy Bolter

85 Pts

Troops

Lieutenant
Lascannon
2 Plasma Guns

95 Pts

Chimera
Hull Heavy Bolter
Turret Multi-Laser

85 Pts

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
Plasma Gun

100 Pts

Chimera
Hull Heavy Bolter
Turret Multi-Laser

85 Pts

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
Plasma Gun

100 Pts

Chimera
Hull Heavy Bolter
Turret Multi-Laser

85 Pts

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
Plasma Gun

100 Pts

Chimera
Hull Heavy Bolter
Turret Multi-Laser

85 Pts

Armored Fist Squad
Heavy Bolter
Flamer

81 Pts

Chimera
Hull Heavy Bolter
Turret Multi-Laser

85 Pts

Fast Attack

Hell Hound
Track Guards
Extra Armor

130 Points

Heavy Support

Demolisher
Plasma Cannons
Hull Lascannon
Track Guards

195 Pts

Demolisher
Plasma Cannons
Hull Lascannon
Track Guards

195 Pts

Bassilisk
IDF

125 Pts

Total Points: 1747
Total Infantry: 50
Total Tanks: 10

Critiques on the list please and also wanted! Thanks.

Do you actually have the DKK models?!

Not actuals but I have like 200+ of the old metal Steel Legion figures... Mixed and matched with the Death Korps resin models and ones that I needed, mostly for turrent models/and Commissar models (Never got the conversion kit for Steel Legion). Also have Autocannon turrents for all my Chimeras but cant really use them in tournaments unless they authorize it mostly for use in Apoc.

Oh ok...Iv been looking for SL models to buy, I looked on GW.com but I cant find them, and the DKK models are awesome, but too expensive and brittle...so I decided to go with SL...do you know where to find them?

They still sell there heavy weapons and sentinal. I know at old stores you can find them. They are like 40$ a box now probley maybe get lucky like me and find some for 30$ or find a trader. Check ebay/bardertown. Or make some emails to some of the painters you see on forums they most of the time have there own store and may have some in a crack in the corner. But you could deffiantely mix and match and it wouldn't matter or really tell the diffrence maybe I'm just blind though.

JT

So no comments on the list. Is it pretty solid for 1750 for competiveness? Only thing I'm debating with the list is dropping the Bassilisk and the Hellhound to get another Demolisher same upgrades and upgrade the last squad to a lascannon/plasma gun and add in my Commissar with a Power Weapon..... Anyways your thoughts?

Demolishers just lead the spearhead for the mech. infantry.

I'd keep Bassie and Hellhound, for diversity.
How do you plan to use the infantry squads (with lascannon, plasma gun)?

In general, I like that you take Demolishers & Hellhound - I really like these units, and they're great in Mech / semi-Mech army with lots of other Armour for the opponent to think about.

I'm not at all sold on Lascannons on Russes, though. I like HBs because they're cheaper. In the case of your Demolishers, if the main gun goes, you have the S9 Lascannon and the S7 Plasma Cannons - you'd have to be stationary to use them all, so that's not good on a tank that's supposed to move. If you were Lascannon & HBs, then you might as well be a regular Russ. So HB & Plasma Cannons on the Demolishers if you really want the sponsons. Personally, I keep my Demolishers cheap, with just HB & XA/S.

IMO, the biggest problem with Mech Guard is that you sink a lot of points into Non-Scoring Dedicated Transports. Sure, the Chimera is a great firepower source - it totally negates the requirement for Fire Support Squads.

But at 85 pts base before you add Extra Armour & Smoke, you're really hurting. Especially if you want the extra Dakka of a PMHS. 100+ pts for a Razorback is a bit excessive - you're paying 50% more than you should. This wouldn't be so bad if the Chimera were 25-35 pts cheaper.

I'd suggest dropping the 3rd Infantry Squad (and it's Chimera), and taking Grenadiers (or Inquisitional Stormies). 6 Grenadiers with a couple Grenade Launchers wandering around is a cheap unit that isn't required to buy a Chimera, but still fills a Troops slot. This leaves about 100+ pts for Scoring units.

I'd also suggest swapping the Bassie for a regular Russ. From a practical standopoint, it's just as at direct fire, and the vastly improved armor means you can move it if you have to.

The other points can go into a single Sentinel with Autocannon. This adds more mobile, Scoring units like the Grenadiers that has some harrassment capability. At 1850 pts, take two more (another Fast & HQ attached).

Doctrines:
Mechanized
Die-Hards
Iron Discipline
Rough Riders

HQ

Colonel
Lascannon
Standard

116 Pts

Chimera
Turret Multi-Laser
Hull Heavy Bolter

85 Pts

Troops

Lieutenant
Lascannon
2 Plasma Guns

95 Pts

Chimera
Hull Heavy Bolter
Turret Multi-Laser

85 Pts

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
Plasma Gun

100 Pts

Chimera
Hull Heavy Bolter
Turret Multi-Laser

85 Pts

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
Plasma Gun

100 Pts

Chimera
Hull Heavy Bolter
Turret Multi-Laser

85 Pts

Armored Fist Squad
Heavy Bolter
Flamer

81 Pts

Chimera
Hull Heavy Bolter
Turret Multi-Laser

85 Pts

Fast Attack

Hell Hound
Track Guards
Extra Armor

130 Points

10 Rough Riders
Hunting Lances
Veteran Sgt.
Power Weapon
Laspistol

123 Points

Heavy Support

Demolisher
Plasma Cannons
Hull Lascannon
Track Guards

195 Pts

Demolisher
Plasma Cannons
Hull Lascannon
Track Guards

195 Pts

Leman Russ
Hull Lascannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Heavy Stubber
Track Guards

187 Pts

Total Points: 1750
Total Infantry: 40
Total Calvalry: 10
Total Tanks: 9

Added in the Rough Riders may drop them down to 8 or something I really wanna play with them and a excuse to sink 200$ into 10 Death Korps Rough Riders. The Chimeras shoot at infantry and possible soft walkers/apcs and the lascannons/plasmas shoot marines or target tanks.

So, are you just wanting to play an IG army using the DKoK doctrines, or...?

Now, I'm not a big IG player. I'll give you that, off the bat. I just played AGAINST them tonight in a 2500 point game, though.

Wow.

Let me tell you... the ONLY way to play DKoK is out of the Siege of Vracks book.

I played a well rounded Chaos force. Among the models in the DKoK were:

3 heavy Mortars
3 (Quad launchers?)... the Thudd-gun looking ones
Medusa Siege engine
Malcador? Macharius? (the one with the twin linked ordnance template)
Whatever the heavy tank is that has 4 lascannons on it (Turret, hull mounted & 2 sponsons)

These pieces are all MUST HAVES in a true DKoK force. DKoK is, essentially, a siege army. All the guns in the first 3 I listed are indirect fire.
Those things ANNIHILATED my army.

The Medusa ANNIHILATED (actually annihilated, from the Ordnance pen chart) THREE tanks.

Also, Grenadiers in the little centaur tanks or whatever the heck they are....

If you're going to play DKoK, you need those piece to do it right. They're beasts.


Eric

With DKoK, I would put alot of ordanance weapons if at all possible. If you think about it, WWI Germans (basically DKoK) were known for their heavy artillery, which out weighed everyone else by quite a bit, which made them effective at pinning and destroying enemy forces. And with what was stated above by, Magickal, those heavy arty weapons are the way to go. In many ways they may be static in movement, but, lol as you can tell his forces got cleaned up on the battlefield. be in mind it was a 2000+ point list, adding those in will bring a great advantage to your forces.

Well this list is straight from the IG book trying to fine tune it for tournament play pretty sure the Death Korps in FW's book is not a legal army to play in a tournament unless with permission (Could be wrong *Flame shield up*)

I am actually mixing and matching SL guys with Death Korps models as I've said in the past and you really cant tell the diffrence other then the obvious bayonets, details, ect.

Spacewolverine wrote:Well this list is straight from the IG book trying to fine tune it for tournament play pretty sure the Death Korps in FW's book is not a legal army to play in a tournament unless with permission (Could be wrong *Flame shield up*)

I am actually mixing and matching SL guys with Death Korps models as I've said in the past and you really cant tell the diffrence other then the obvious bayonets, details, ect.

Okay. That's an important distinction.
You're making a tourney list.

LOL

Ignore my comments, then. All that artillery & those tanks would be useless for you, then.

Eric

Ok you've got lascannons on command squads. This is a no-no, reason being you must expose the unit to fire and it only has 4 bodies. Put lascannons on squads of 10.

ID is crap. Take chem inhalers, or don't even bother with LD modifiers for IG. Just let them die, or run. You have enough guys to not worry about it.

Demolisher never take plasmacannons. LR don't bother with a hull las. LR are anti-infantry. Give both types 3xHB + HS. Leave tank hunting to your infantry squads.

Putting things like EA, guards, dozer blades...just makes expensive vehicles more expensive. Don't bother.

Your chimeras should have HS.

If you want to make your command squads useful, give at least 1 drop troop doctrine and meltaguns. Give the other plasmaguns and hide them until someone gets close. Between them and a RR unit, you can pwn face on most enemy assaults.

By the way, Hellhounds rock. Try a couple.

Doctrines:
Mechanized
Die-Hards
Iron Discipline
Rough Riders

HQ

Colonel
Plasma Gunx3
Standard

121 Pts

Chimera
Turret Multi-Laser
Hull Heavy Bolter

85 Pts

Troops

Lieutenant
Plasma Gunx4

90 Pts

Chimera
Turret Multi-Laser
Hull Heavy Bolter

85 Pts

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
Plasma Gun

100 Pts

Chimera
Turret Multi-Laser
Hull Heavy Bolter

85 Pts

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
Plasma Gun

100 Pts

Chimera
Turret Multi-Laser
Hull Heavy Bolter

85 Pts

Armored Fist Squad
Melta Gun

75 Pts

Chimera
Turret Multi-Laser
Hull Heavy Bolter

85 Pts

Fast Attack

Hellhound

115 Points

Hellhound

115 Points

10 Rough Riders
Hunting Lances
Veteran Sgt.
Power Weapon
Laspistol

123 Points

Heavy Support

Demolisher
Hull Lascannon

165 Pts

Demolisher
Hull Lascannon

165 Pts

Leman Russ
Hull Heavy Bolter
Sponson Heavy Bolters

155 Pts

Total Points: 1750
Total Infantry: 40
Total Calvalry: 10
Total Tanks: 10


Okay revised it again. I cant take Chem-inhalers with Die Hards or Iron Disc. So I kept them both. I had stubbers on the chimera but I was 40 points short of 1750 and wanted to play around with numbers and crunch some and fit in another Hellhound. The two command platoons have Plasma guns in them to make marines and lone tyrants/carnifex's/ork boss's comming think twice or deepstriking termis (This was a blurb of thought). Armored Fist is gonna be a objective grabber its gonna miss its flamer but think the extra Hellhound will make up for it with the melta gun in the squad makes it good for single tanks comming across nabbing something at the second to last moment.

Still debating to drop the sponsons/heavy bolters on the leman russ to give it a hull mount lascannon just because in games I've played seems to always be a better pick. So hows the list look now besides Die-Hards/ID.

Thanks,
JT

If you drop the AF and bring grenadiers, you get a slightly better unit. At least I prefer them to AF. AF with 1 meltagun aren't reliable. Grenadiers with 2 meltaguns, however, are...BS4 vs BS3.

Problem with 10 rough riders is, to hide the big mob of cavalry from shooting, it must be super clustered. That gives everyone a nice target for indirect fire. I always recommend 8 men/women in an assault unit...easier to hide, but you can still spread out vs indirect.

Try a junior officer in command...you don't have 200 guardsmen, so you really don't need all the LD modifiers.
Honest.

I think the plasmaguns on your infantry squads (not command squads, those are fine but see next comment) are questionable, and the PW on the RR sarge is too.

Since you have the points, why not bring hardened vets and give them plasma guns instead? They are BS4, better than your command squads. Command squads are best with meltaguns or flamers. BS3 plasmaguns are...sh**. Really.

What to drop/swap in for the points for the Hardened Vets or Grenadiers? I can free up 64 Points by dropping the Command to a Junior Officer+bringing 3 Flamers as well as dropping 2 Rough Riders (Making the changes swapping the 4 Plasmas in the LT's group to Meltaguns). Dropping ID/DH would free up 40 more points. So total is 105 points (1 point was what I had left 1749 original). Grenadiers would be 70 points with 5 w/ 2 Meltas instead of the AF (Keep in mind just swapping the squad not the chimera). So another 5 points, 110 Points. Max out my Grenadier platoon and its 60 points left. What to do with my 60 points?

Thanks,
JT

I'll post another list tomarrow after some more critique/suggestions.

For 50 pts, you buy a Sentinel with Autocannon.

Don't max out grenadier platoons. No point really. 5 man IG units are annoying, most shooting at them won't get to the crunchy SW/HW, and at best you took a cheap unit below half...and have to keep shooting it to make it go away.

Sentinels with AC are also good backups when someone is running an assault unit towards you and you can't stop it. They aren't great, and PF blow them to bits...but every now and then, they hold the other guy just when you need them to. With so many targets (part of what makes IG such a pain) often Sentinels get overlooked.
Scouts will help your list, which has alot of stuff that sucks in escalation.

Doctrines:
Mechanized
Rough Riders
Grenadiers
Storm Troopers
Iron Disc

HQ

Junior Officer
x4 Flamers

69 Pts

Chimera
Turret Multi-Laser
Hull Heavy Bolter

85 Pts

x2 Sentinel
Autocannon

100 Pts

Troops

Junior Officer
x4 Meltaguns

85 Pts

Chimera
Turret Multi-Laser
Hull Heavy Bolter

85 Pts

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
Plasma Gun

95 Pts

Chimera
Turret Multi-Laser
Hull Heavy Bolter

85 Pts

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
Plasma Gun

95 Pts

Chimera
Turret Multi-Laser
Hull Heavy Bolter

85 Pts

x5 Grenadier
x2 Melta Gun

70 Points

Chimera
Turret Multi-Laser
Hull Heavy Bolter

85 Pts

Fast Attack

Hellhound

115 Points

Hellhound

115 Points

8 Rough Riders
Hunting Lances
Veteran Sgt.
Hunting Lance

94 Points

Heavy Support

Demolisher
Hull Lascannon

165 Pts

Demolisher
Hull Lascannon

165 Pts

Leman Russ
Hull Heavy Bolter
Sponson Heavy Bolters

155 Pts

Total Points: 1748
Total Infantry: 35
Total Calvalry: 10
Total Tanks: 10
Total Walkers: 2


Okay made changes, edited again put in Iron Disc for the 10 points I had left. So let me know what else I need to fine tune.

Thanks for the help and comments/critique,
JT

I've only got 2 bits of advice.

1. If you want to use your guy, find a way to get him in the list. No one ever regretted putting their cool conversion into an army. You might make up for any lost battle points with soft scores he brings in. Besides, Commissars are cool.

2. Basilisks are like Monoliths or raincoats. If you don't bring one, a situation is going to come up where you wish you had it.