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Their has been so much hate thrown at the defilers lately that I have been play testing a list using two. I don't think the list would have as much success past the 1500pt level so I have designed it with this in mind. So far it has been doing fairly well. If cover allows I hide everything out of sight and can even let my opponent have first turn and react to his movement. Tzeench prince and terms are speed bumps to tie up fast assault attack troops and Lash prince is held back for counter charge and lashing oppurtunity targets. Five templates possible in a given round that can kill marine equivalents. It also has 10 possible S7 shots available for skimmer hunting. I keep most of the army moblie heading toward the objective and shooting rapid firing on the way in. Everything kept cheap on purpose (no marks ect.) I didn't take Las cannons in the marine squads so they can also be mobile and the large squads are so they can absorb incoming fire. I have found that if you hide your lash prince and don't use him aggressively until the opponent comes to you he is more effective lashing and counter charging. The Tzeench prince goes after thier anti armor if he doesn't need to be a speed bump.

HQ
Lash prince wings
Tzeench prince (Warptime)wings

Troops
10 CSM w/fist 2Xplas gun
10 CSM w/fist 2Xplas gun

Elites
5 Terms 1 auto cannon

Heavy Support
1 Defiler Havoc upgrade
1 Defiler Havoc upgrade
3 Oblits

At first glance the list doesn't look like much but has gone 3-0 over the week end. I am trying to match up against TMC, and eldar/tau airforces to play test against this coming weekend. I am thinking if I had to go to 2000pts I would go with 2 noise marine squads kitted and a greater Daemon but for now I am concentrating on the 1500 mark. I so far have played a good BT list, Mech chaos, and a GK list.

Dude come to MG. I got something for your Defilers.

The point is I did not build it to be ultra competetive but it turned out to be not half bad and dude you need to come up to Endzone. Saturdays are when the veterans usually make it in. Fridays are extremenly busy also but it's usually about 20+ teenagers playing 40K league games. I am thinking of bringing this list to the Hastur RTT in Feb BTW just because.

They want me to go to the Hastur RTT. I think it's the 9th, but I have another MG tournament planned for that month, probably the 26th not sure if I wanna go lol.

I could go up to EZ but why can't you come to MG? :p

I didn't mean anything bad about your list, I just like Defilers without indirect fire. Nowhere as annoying. lol

Yeah I like the list Lemartes. I never gave defilers too much credit but you walked all over my knights.

I can't see this list doing anything major to a TMC list. There just is not enough fire power or even combat power to deal with 8 monsters + Rending Creatures. I also can't see this lasting more than 4 turns against any Shooty Marine army that has at least 1 Librarian.

I think the list might have some merit but it is far from competitive.

That's why I need to face a good MC list because I think it could hold it's own. The two princes alone could down MC effectively on thier own especially once the Tyrants are shot dead and thier are plenty of S7 shots (lots of plas) to handle MC at range and at 1500 pts MC,s lack a lot of stealers which is what I fear the most anyways. The lash can own Genestealers BTW. Shooty marines are so static (exception is the speeders of course) that if you can manage to get your princes into them I think it would be all over. Remember it's 1500 pts which does not allow for as much shootiness as you might think. Shoot the skimmers jump your princes threw cover and assault into those las/plas squads. Be carefull to only killzone 2-3 so your engaged until the end of your opponents assault phase and jump and assault again. Hoods usually stop one power but not both.

I played four more over the weekend and finally face a mech Tau list. Still no MC list yet and I think that will be the true test. The games made me think I may be better served taking a lash/warptime sorcerer on bike to get to combat quicker against Tau as they really have a hard time against lash and CC. The sorcerer would probably be good in the mirror match to Force weapon kill other princes? Any way 7-0 and besides one match they have been massacres so the list I think does have some merits.

Gah I challenge you to bloody hand-to-hand combat, Lemartes! Come to MG, and I'll come to EZ. I can get a whole bunch of guys to show up one saturday and play ya.

I will be coming down that way to play in a RTT along with some of my fellow Dakkaites. That's the best way to see how a list measures up. I am sure Aaron will show up and I think he's a regular at mind games.

Which one? I was about to post the one I'm running in Feb.

Aaron isn't a regular at MG. He's a cheating ass, please don't associate him with our store.

Probably two then if thier not in the same weekend. I don't personally know the guy so maybe there different guys?

Well there are 3 I think. One is a former outrider (the one I was talking about), one is a buddy of mine, and I think there's another one but I don't know him.

I think the Hastur's one is Feb 9, mine is Feb 23.

could the 10 csms be 6 plague marines with the same armament? seems like they'd be tougher overall, and a little cheaper (183 points). feel no pain, t5 and fearless to boot seems stronger to me.

how have you been deploying? What have been you're basic strats with this list?

Or even consider dropping the terminators for some berzerkers you could get more bang for your buck

Berzerker's are no good idea without a transport.
A sinlge Rhino...too...just isn't a good idea.

gamefiend said it! Switch your generic Marines out for some plagued ones. Also you might consider an icon for your Termies? Maybe just IoCG? Just to have one.

PS: Aren't those Defilers shot down quite quickly? Pretty big, only two AV targets and not very durable at all...

I like the ten man squads so I can spread them out and recieve a charge. Kilezone usually ends up being 3-4 leaving the units engaged so my Prince/defiler can counter assault. What has been funny in playtest is that I usually lose 1 defiler and have one left in the end game. Defilers have been very good in the counter assault game after shooting for a few rounds. Fleet has made them more flexible than I thought possible. I don't invest to many points in the terms on purpose and points are exact in my list so no room. Terms are a better fire magnet and recieve punishment better than zerkers. Between the oblits and terms it gives me durable units who can take fire.

how have you been deploying? What have been you're basic strats with this list?

Deployment: I like to keep everything out of sight as most of the army can move and shoot at set up. Terrain permiting oblits in the middle, Defilers on the flanks. DP and prince on opposite flanks with defilers. Everything usually about 18 from the middle oblits so prince defilers can counter into the middle if needed. 1 squad CSM in the middle with oblits along with terms. Last squad out to either side to pull a refused flank or to go against a weak flank. First turn everything move up staying in cover wherever possible for better fire lanes. Second turn DP/sorcerer on bike, terms, and 1 CSM squad continue to advance toward objectives. The two DP's or soon to be 1 sorcerer1 prince advancing up opposing flanks while terms and 1csm squad up the middle puts a lot of pressure on shooty armies in 1500 pt games. All the while continue hammering with oblits and defilers it often confuses opponents as to what takes priority in the shooting phase. If you ignore the CC elements to take out defiler and oblits your in trouble and vice versa. Lash as soon as possible on move or shoot units at 1500pts is also damaging to opponents heavy slots. When you lash you have two pie plates and 3 plasma cannons to thin the heard. If you lash towards the middle you have 3 twin linked plasma guns and 4 more rapid firing plas to help.

I really like the idea of two defilers and with lash it really sells me. I've seen Lemartes play a couple times with this army and it owned everything. A good Knights army and an even better BT army. Hail the righteosness!!!

Hey stelek do you know a guy named Shawn? I know he plays at MG all the time.

Stelek wrote:
Aaron isn't a regular at MG. He's a cheating ass, please don't associate him with our store.

Why do you call Aaron a cheating ass? I've never seen the guy cheat in a game in all the time I've known him.

Batnob, nice to see you join up. You thinking of running two prince/defilers.

Thinkin bout it yeah.

I played three more over the weekend and one was a campaign game. The sorceror is not as good as the second prince btw. Play testing has shown that he is just not as survivable as a Daemon prince. I went 2-0-1.
The draw was because I was just messing around with a friend who was demorilized early with a lashed 10 man tac squad that went away from a direct battle cannon hit. I just played for fun and tried out some new tactics. My biggest problem is I forget to warptime every player turn sometimes.

What armies did you play?

I know a Shawn. He's a jackass. I won't play him.

I call Aaron a cheat because in every game I've played him, friends have played him, or I've personally watched he has cheated. 12 inch deployment zones, 24" apart, yet he always shoots his dakkafexes first turn. Just 1 example, but pretty much he's always in range to shoot/assault. It's amazing when it's impossible...watching him roll his eyes because you make him play by the rules...yeah. What a piece of crap.

Damn right I won't let it go. It's not a 'slip' it's cheating. He always manages to crawl into MG when I'm not there cause he doesn't like me stirring up the whole store and making him leave. We don't want cheaters at MG.

Stirlings Mech Tau, Dark angels, and chaos. Friend was playing DA and probably plays them better than almost any one I have seen. He plays with a balanced list and hist tactics are solid. He just returned from Afghan? and wasn't as familiar with the new chaos dex so I won't cut any slack next time.

It seems you have a theme going on about people that beat you. The post among your many negative ones, that makes me take your comments with a grain of salt, is what you said about your adventures at Endzone which I'll quote in part:


"Endzone runs a pretty good tournamet?

Let me recap for everyone just how good this tournament was:

All of my opponents cheated.

The only thing I can't fault the store for are the rubbish scenarios. (Rant incoming.)

GW US wants GW UK to stop making fun of their tournament scene, so they decide to run a 'Ard Boyz' tournament.

Real serious stuff. Better come prepared.

Scenarios 1 + 2 are scenarios Jervis plays in his basement for fun with 10,000 points of stuff using the Apocalypse rules. They aren't skillfests, they are luckfests not designed for the basic 40k rules.

GW US doesn't get it--if you want to be "serious", play a Swiss single elimination tournament with Infiltrate, Deep Strike, and a varying 12" deployment zone in EVERY game.

I tried my best to lose all of my games, as I have a invite to the tournament already (wife said I can't go, which is awesome), but in the end Scenario 3 wasn't some luckfest scenario and my opponent was dead first.

Someday, I'll be impressed with a GW run tournament. No luckfests, no fanboy winners, no dumbasses telling me their way of playing the game is correct...but I've only been to two GT's that even remotely qualified. 2 of 12 attended is pretty lame.

As far as tournaments here in Utah, I run the only ones that are "fun". Run them as if you were playing, and you'll have happy players. Run them any other way, and you get posts like this pointing out all of your flaws."


I don't know why you'd spend all the time and money you have going to GT's if 10 out of 12 were, in your own words, lame, but I guess that's your thing. As far as the other tournaments go, once again, why do you bother if you've been cheated and beaten so many times? You tried to lose games? ok.

I edited this post quite a few times, trying to keep it as civil as I can, and I really wouldn't have bothered posting anything at all, except Aaron is a friend.

Well I'm glad all you have to say is quote a huge block of what I say, and then don't read it.

"I tried my best to lose all of my games"

I'm used to people cheating. At Endzone, I got two draws *despite* trying to lose AND being cheated on.

Thankfully, the judges decided you really can contest two quarters with 1 unit and/or decide what quarter your unit is in when it straddles multiple quarters instead of rolling for it.

You think I'm a sourpuss and can't handle losing? Not in a fair fight. You like cheats? You play with 'em and tell everyone how fun it is.

You like RTT's run like gak? You play in 'em and tell everyone how good you are. In my RTT's, I don't allow cheating and people that aren't regulars can and do win.

Anyone that knows me, knows I am terribly honest.

I was impressed with the GT doubles tournament at Las Vegas. Not so much with the GT itself, but it was fun.

By the way, let's count the number of times I've been beaten in a tournament fair and square? Zero?

I play lots of games over at MG, and I do lose games. I don't accuse them of cheating, they beat me and that's all there is to it. It doesn't matter if it's once a year for some people, it's still a loss, right?

Everytime I've played at a RTT and had a loss, it always had something to do with the people running the event not having the balls to stand up to cheats. Endzone was run so well, my buddy got a battleforce because a KNOWN CHEAT got the same fething prize he did! Oh and between him and Lemartes I'm not sure who won 3rd place. I think technically my buddy did, but again--you sniped out something I said without reading the whole story.

Aaron is a cheat, and he got his one cheat win out of me. I've refused to play him at all RTTs and GTs since. If you think I'm afraid of him, well only at RTT's where he can pull his shenagins. At GT's he might get away with it against others, but I'll have the organizer sit at our table if I have to. Done it before vs other cheaters, I'll do it again without batting an eye.

Oh and the LV GT was decently run. Horrible venue, but that's ok it's going to be at a real one this year so hopefully the small problems will be fixed.

I'm glad that's all you've got to say. I've set the record straight, so no more out of you then, right?