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Bravo Stelek.

Oh and between him and Lemartes I'm not sure who won 3rd place. I think technically my buddy did, but again--you sniped out something I said without reading the whole story.

That was a cluster tournament IMO also. That's one of the reasons I decided not to attend Ardboyz finals because it wouldn't have felt legit. I played on the number two table in the final round and get a massacre. In my mind that means I cannot finish no worse than third and I actually thought I was going to get second because somebody on the top table had to lose. Top table ends up being a tie some how and then I am told I am not even third? Very strange. Over all I was just trying to place as high as I could with GK's which everyone knows are sub par so I didn't do half bad I guess. That's how I like to play BTW. Take a army people say can't win and try and make it work.

Lemartes wrote:Over all I was just trying to place as high as I could with GK's which everyone knows are sub par so I didn't do half bad I guess. That's how I like to play BTW. Take a army people say can't win and try and make it work.

I applaud you for that, lemartes. I'm really keen on playing your GK...I can't imagine losing to the sweeties, but I promise I'll fall out of my chair and clutch my chest if I do.

Maybe I should finish my DA up and we can throw pillows at each other? lol

Relapse wrote:
I don't know why you'd spend all the time and money you have going to GT's if 10 out of 12 were, in your own words, lame, but I guess that's your thing. As far as the other tournaments go, once again, why do you bother if you've been cheated and beaten so many times? You tried to lose games? ok.

I edited this post quite a few times, trying to keep it as civil as I can, and I really wouldn't have bothered posting anything at all, except Aaron is a friend.

/lurk mode off/
I have to post on this one too, first a little background on me. I've been an Outrider/Kommando for the last 3 years and have run almost every 40k RTT in Utah County and helped out at the LVGT this year. People who know me know that I'm a fair judge and don't play favorites. Why according to Setek I'm a ray of sunshine!

Aaron has attended just about every event that I've run and in that time I've never seen him score low on sportsmanship or been accused of cheating. I'm not saying he's without fault, but he isn't a cheater.

Yes, Aaron is my friend, but that means that I'll just bust him that much harder if I were to catch him cheating.

OK now for the On Topic
Being a victim of the lash used against my nids at a tournament I have to agree that they are great way to stall, if not eliminate a brood of 'stealers. I've seen multiple Plasma/S7 shots to terrible things to my Mech Tau so it looks like a solid list, hope to see you further south at some of the places I've run tournaments.

/lurk mode on/

I run a very similar chaos army at 2k:
2 Winged Lash Princes
2x 4 Terminators all with Combi-plasma guns
2x 6 CSM w/ Fist, Icon and Melta w/Rhino
2x 8 Raptors w/Fist, Icon of Khorne
2x Defiliers w/ auto cannon and close combat weapon
2x Obliteraors

The oblits and Terms DS. Using the Demon Princes to Lash people together and then nailing them with the Defilier is how I use them, I'm assuming you do mostly the same. Also for the nidzilla list I try to use the demon princes to push the big bugs back away from the rest of your army.

Cogito

Well if you are who I think you are, you are a ray of sunshine. I mean that.

Since I'm the Aaron that Stelek is talking about, I suppose I should chime in on this one.

Stelek wrote:I call Aaron a cheat because in every game I've played him, friends have played him, or I've personally watched he has cheated. 12 inch deployment zones, 24" apart, yet he always shoots his dakkafexes first turn.

What are you talking about? You've never played against my Tyranids with Dakkafexes, (I've only owned Dakkafexes for a couple of monthes) and I've only brought them once to Mind Games last friday, and my Dakkafexes didn't fire until turn three, and I don't recall ever playing against your friends, so I really don't know where you are getting this from.

The regulars at MG are my friends. I came in the next day and had to listen to it.

You have a poor memory of that game in LA. I took the objective, remember? It was a minor vic for me after the judges there reviewed our scoresheets. You were unavailable, as you ran off, but I was informed of the result after. I wonder, do you remember how much of a jackass you were in that game?

You can say what you want about that GPP RTT, you lost more out of the flyers in the back than you took off. That's cheating. Do you remember what I said? If winning is so important to you that you'll cheat, then have the fething win ya big baby. My stance on that hasn't changed.

I already had worked out with the organizer of the events in question that I'd walk if I was paired with you, but you seem to misunderstand something--I was on the top boards the whole time, since BATTLE POINTS were used to determine pairings. YOU were soundly beaten and moved off the top boards. I got lowest sports, big deal. Doesn't make me a poor sport. Makes 4 of 5 of my opponents poor sports. Only 1 took his ass beating like a man and didn't mark me down for it. Painting doesn't figure in either, but since I didn't PAY SOMEONE to paint my army and not mark it on my fething sheet like you did--what's your point? A pro painter paints better than me? Oh no, really. And yeah, you didn't mark it. I saw your score sheet. I was kind enough to point out your error to the judges. Why don't you kiss the blarney some more when your playing your games, by the way? I had to listen to you thankfully for only 2 games before you were far enough from the top tables for me not to have to listen to you go on and on about how sucky your army was. Whatever that 'terrain piece' was you brought along, by the by, it was ugly. Pay others to do that kind of work for you, you're no good at it. If you did pay, pay MORE.

Regardless of all that, I watched you play at the 'Ard Boyz and of all the cheaters there...you were picked out as the biggest. Oh last thing about that--I won two games at the 'Ard Boyz and drew 1. The Endzone staff were kind enough to remove a victory by allowing a Terminator unit to claim two quarters, but being stiffed out of a win doesn't change the fact I won that game nor that he was a cheat with a FW model being used as one and the staff didn't give a crap about that either. Cheaters heaven, is what I call it. By the way, I lost 8 marines to my final opponent who quit when all he had left was Ahriman and Typhus left. Think that was a loss too?

Now that I've said all that...

I don't know what 'regulars' you spoke to, or whatever it is you're trying to say. You aren't liked at MG. Take it as a poison barb from me if you want to. You don't know me, so you don't know how truthful I am.

I also don't hate you, I just don't like cheaters. You've cheated in EVERY tournament game I've played you, and EVERY tournament game I've watched you in you've cheated. You even cheat in friendly games because you're NOT a friendly player, Aaron. You got called on cheating this last Friday, or as we like to call it 'Playing by the rules'. You rolled your eyes alot, apparently, on certain peoples stubbornness in making you play by them. At least you had luck on your side, so you pulled out a win anyway. So why cheat in the first place? Are you THAT insecure? Geeze.

I will take care of not playing each other in events, I always call ahead and get us on the 'don't play each other list'.

In case word hasn't reached you, if you insist on coming to a tournament I run and I catch you cheating, I'll toss you. I don't want you to, because every opponent you played in a tournament that I've had a chance to talk to has said playing you was like being tarpitted...which I take to mean 'not fun'. At least I don't have a gak eating grin on my face when I beat someone--I just do it and move on, doesn't make me friends but doesn't make people hate me. I have more fun playing that other former RT guy from GPP because at least we don't have to pretend like we like each other or want to do more than crush each others armies and have a good go of it.

Maybe when you change and other people tell me you've changed, an olive branch will be available. Funny thing is, I'm one of the most forgiving put-up-with-endless-bs people around, but you've tweaked me so bad I just can't do it. I don't even hate you, had to like you first and I never have.

What's it say I'd rather go to Endzone and play Lemartes, who I've seen for all of 3 seconds (I think), than even run into you at MG?

I don't know if he's a prick or not (I don't think so) but he took GK to a tournament full of asswipes (including myself) with full on balls and won.

You brought...a fex list. Gee, it's the ard boyz but still couldn't you do something a little more demanding of ones tactical skill? I left mine at home.

Says a hell of a lot to me. Personally I hope Lemartes kicks my ass when we do get a chance to play, it's been a long damn time since anyone has kicked my trash.

Stelek wrote:
You have a poor memory of that game in LA. I took the objective, remember? It was a minor vic for me after the judges there reviewed our scoresheets. You were unavailable, as you ran off, but I was informed of the result after.

That's not how I remember it. The judges can't change scores without informing both players, so I highly doubt your version, but since it was like five years ago, I suppose it doesn't matter to me.

You can say what you want about that GPP RTT, you lost more out of the flyers in the back than you took off. That's cheating. Do you remember what I said? If winning is so important to you that you'll cheat, then have the fething win ya big baby. My stance on that hasn't changed.

It was a tables quarter mission. You had zero table quarters and I had two. Even if I had removed every single gargoyle, the result would have been the same. I still would have had one table quarter. So, it didn't impact the end result in the slightest. Again, however, it was so long ago that I suppose it doesn't matter to me.

I got lowest sports, big deal. Doesn't make me a poor sport. Makes 4 of 5 of my opponents poor sports.

Occasionally people get dinged, but no one gets the lowest score in the whole tournament by accident. I mean, the next lowest score above you was a 24. Dave Taylor had to assign a Kommando to watch over you. Shouldn't that be a wake-up call?

In case word hasn't reached you, if you insist on coming to a tournament I run and I catch you cheating, I'll toss you.

Would you even let me play? I mean, I've been avoiding the events you run because I always assumed that you wouldn't let me participate in the first place.

I don't even hate you, had to like you first and I never have.

Okay, well the olive branch is extended if you ever chose to accept it. I'll try to maintain my distance at Mind Games when you are there as well, and I won't come to any of the events you run (Not that I wouldn't want to. I'd love to come to your events, but I feel like it would irritate you too much to have me there.)
Anyway, so the olive branch is there. You'll never have to play against me again, so hopefully that will help your anger subside over time.

Well Aaron, Sam got 2nd lowest place in sportsmanship at that tournament.

Nicest. Guy. Ever.

What's that say about sportsmanship?

I note regarding a Kommando watching me, I noticed being watched in some games, and when I asked about it I was given an apology since I wasn't a poor sport. It was the judges opinion my opponents were. So why should I wake up? I complained about the lousy scores meant entirely to lower my ability to win the tournament, but was given the 'well the scoring system has it's flaws' concession speech.

Which is pretty much what happens and has had happened at EVERY GT I've attended.

I'm used to it. I'm NOT a troublesome player, so I still get invited to GW events. They do and have banned people for less than what you're accusing me of.

Anyone who doesn't stink the place up is welcome at my tournaments. If you cheat, you get tossed. If you are a jackass and I hear about it through multiple tournaments, I'll ask you not to attend one. So far everyone's figured out not to be a jackass and the events have been fun, I plan on them staying that way.

Stelek wrote:Well Aaron, Sam got 2nd lowest place in sportsmanship at that tournament.

Nicest. Guy. Ever.

What's that say about sportsmanship?

Sam had to leave after his third game, that's why his sportsmanship score was only 24, because he had zeroes for his other games because he wasn't there, and he still scored higher then you.

I had my score changed on me at LV without being notified, fyi. I was out to lunch.

You remember our tournament games as fun games and solid victories for you, I suppose.

I had 2 units of oblits still scoring plus vehicles, 1 in each quarter with your flyrants. That means they're contested. That's why the gargoyles were shot dead, since you had only the 2 flyrants at half strength each and couldn't afford to come into close combat and maybe lose the game. But you refused to take them off. I remember gak like that, Aaron.

At any rate: Since we remember things differently, I'll give you an example of Jackassery I don't tolerate. These are some examples.

Moving your figs, then moving again, then re-moving and suddenly your in range to shoot/assault.

Not rolling dice, just turning them over. It's not allowed in Vegas for a reason!

Premeasuring. Unless your army has gitfinders or IG scopes, there is no premeasuring in 40k. Using your arm, sticking your tape measure out past where your maximum move or range of your weapon is, etc.

Trying to browbeat your opponent into your interpretation of the rules.

All things YOU do. Your friends might not care or notice, but people who play you do notice.

You want to call it metagaming or creative thinking? Fine. I call it cheating.

Don't do it in my tournaments. Everyone knows it's fun because I know the rules for most things (the actual rules, and the armies) and I read the FAQ's...and I don't allow people to cheat or be donkey-caves. I have absolutely no problem calling people to the mat for it, and I've done so. People keep coming back for that reason.

I keep running them for that reason--getting a fun tournament without cheats or dickheads is hard!

Hmm not what he told me. Guess I'll have to ask him when I see him next.

Doesn't change the fact my opponents didn't like my Eldar (can't blame 'em, they're dead hard) and didn't like me sitting there without a care in the world as I blew their army up (can't blame 'em for that either, they don't know I'm always that way).

Giving me poor sportsmanship scores because I won't kiss the blarney like you do, well...that's GW's fault, isn't it?

Since I have time today, I'm going to work on my scoring system and sheet for the upcoming tournament. I'm trying to fix the 'oh I lost well feth you and your sportsmanship/comp' crap. Guess we'll see if it works.

By the way, nice edit--way to toss in that extra barb at the end. You were doing so well, too.

Stelek wrote:
Giving me poor sportsmanship scores because I won't kiss the blarney like you do, well...that's GW's fault, isn't it?

What is this kissing the blarney stuff you keep saying?

I say nice things about my opponent's models because I think they're nice.
I say nice things about my opponent's skills because I honestly think that.
It's not an act. I think player's should get praise when praise is due.

Isn't that the way people are supposed to act during tournaments? I was always taught that you should be doubly-nice to an opponent when they are losing.

Come to think of it, that's my favorite part of tournaments. Meeting new players and seeing some really nicely converted and painted armies.

I think I was pretty clear about it.

Anyway, I put in the prelim scoring system.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/206383.page

Is this really the place to bicker and argue?
I sincerely hope any new players to the hobby looking for some hints on what to do with their new defiler/s ,don't come across this whole page's worth of unsportsmanly accusations and ''i don't like you and neither does anyone else i game with'' crap. Especially if you are nervous about meeting new people in an environment you know nothing about, and are hoping for the friendly atmosphere you would expect in tournament gaming.
Be men about it and sort it out face to face like adults or use e-mail.
Enough said?

Sam wasn't present for the last two games of the LVGT, I know I wandered down each row several times and would have seen him.

I really don't think that Stelek should be throwing stones (glass houses and all).

For the record I Dave Taylor asked the Kommandos watch Stelek during the LVGT, his opponents looked like they had the life just sucked out of them and we were considering removing him from the tourney.

Also Stelek is the only player that I know of has requested not to play Aaron (although the stores have never told me that he requested this), but at the events that I've run several people requested not to play against Stelek (just in case he was wondering why he would up playing me or the store manager at the RTT's at GPP). In fact a year or so ago some of the players from MG commented to me that they really didn't like being around Stelek.
I also undestand that MG was the only store in SLC that hadn't banned Stelek from playing.

I'd say that the reason Aaron gets good sportsmanship scores is because he is actuall fun to play against even when he kicks in their teeth. In fact I usually overhear his opponents say that they had a fun game regardless of the outcome.
And I'll say it again Aaaron isn't a cheater, I've hardly had to bust anyone for cheating at an event that I've run and I've never heard anyone accuse Aaron of cheating before this.
As far as Aaron browbeating someone into accepting his rules judgement, I've run enough events to find that most of the players will ask the rules judge when a ruling is a big deal, that's what we're here for.
And I can say the same thing about Stelek, he knows his rules pretty well, he's just not as fun to play against, the fact is he's the only player that I've ever walked out of a game with.

I don't know why Stelek thinks Aaron cheats and is making such a big deal out of this.
If someone had called Stelek a cheat I'd be defending him too, so don't feel like I'm picking on Stelek, I get pissed when someone calls someone else a cheat and all the evidence I've seen makes it unfounded.

I think you should both just lay off and try to stay out of each others way, or dealing with it privately and Stelek should have never taken to hijacking someone elses thread to deal with it publicly, the only reason this whole thing isn't in a PM is I think that others reading this thread should see end of this thing.

OK I'm done, at the end of the day this just a game we play with toy soldiers and I think it's stupid that anyone is making a big deal and almost feel dirty to have involved my self in this at all.

So I'm sorry to those that started this thread and haven't taken it OT, and I wish you luck with your Defiler Themed list (I hope that you convert them so they look more like brass scorpions, I just think that's cool) and hope to see all of you around!

Defiler Army? What?

Locked.