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Well I was asked what Ork army DO I have a problem with.

So here are two, both I think are troublesome for everyone--the 180 Orks are troublesome, but you really can kill a ton of Orks and not lose much in return.

These lists, you will have a hard time punking these lists even with lists designed to kill them.

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The No Boyz army.

Warboss, Big Choppa, Bike: 105 points.
Warboss, Big Choppa, Bike: 105 points.
Nobz, Elite. x3. Transport: Battlewagon, Kannon, 4 big shootas, ard case, grot riggers: 200 points.
Nobz, Elite. x3. Transport: Battlewagon, Kannon, 4 big shootas, ard case, grot riggers: 200 points.
Nobz, Elite. x3. Transport: Battlewagon, Kannon, 4 big shootas, ard case, grot riggers: 200 points.
Nobz, Troops. x3. Transport: Battlewagon, Kannon, 4 big shootas, ard case, grot riggers: 200 points.
Nobz, Troops. x3. Transport: Battlewagon, Kannon, 4 big shootas, ard case, grot riggers: 200 points.
Warbuggies, x3, 90 points.
Deffkopta, x1, Buzzsaw. 60 points.
Deffkopta, x1, Buzzsaw. 60 points.
Battlewagon, Heavy. Kannon, 4 big shootas, ard case, grot riggers. 140 points.
Battlewagon, Heavy. Kannon, 4 big shootas, ard case, grot riggers: 140 points.
Battlewagon, Heavy. Kannon, 4 big shootas, ard case, grot riggers: 140 points.

1840 points.

Comments:

Find your opponents nasty tank hunting unit, drop the Warbuggies in front of it.

Any units that are indirect and a threat, take them out with the Warbosses and the Deffkoptas.
Warbosses are true terrors in this configuration against poor save troops like Guard, but he is S8 when he charges so don't forget he can tackle most tanks on the side.
Sit back with your Kannons and shootas, and pummel the other guy. Most armies really can't handle 8 Leman Russes.
The Nobs are there to give you the units, and essentially are countercharge units. Save your Waaagh! till he gets close, then unload some Nobs. Most units don't handle Nobs very well, and getting 2-3 of these units into one squad will effectively disrupt the PF attacks which are your real weakness. 15 S5 attacks on the charge is usually enough to give people pause, but being able to shoot that out of your army 5 times is scary enough. If you are facing a mechanized list, the Warbosses and the Deffkoptas are 4 more units with high strength attacks to tackle enemy tanks with. Inaccuracy and low number of shots vs tanks is an issue, but as Tau and Eldar have few options that are really good at killing the horde you can sit and wait.

I didn't think of taking Warbosses and thereby getting Nobz as troops to get more battlewagons.

I would want the Wagons kitted out more. Give them all Deff Rollas, red paint jobs and extra armor. Now they can steam forward 7" a turn and still fire all their weapons. When they are close enough, have them Tank Shock units for d6 str 10 hits and still shoot them with your guns. If an enemy vehicle or armor 13 or less is nearby, Roll over the vehicle and give it d6 str 10 hits.

Could you actually push a unit off the table edge? What happens when you get an enemy unit sandwiched between 2 battlewagons and push into it with another wagon in such a way that the unit has no where to go, but off the board? Is it pushed off the table and destroyed?

Oh you can kit them out, that's taking the army up to 2000 points.

I don't think you can push them off the board, but if you were say using a really big model like say a Baneblade for your Battlewagons (I know some crazy ass is gonna do it) you could push them so far out of coherency they'd spend the whole game trying to get back into it.

In essence I think the other guy would just keep moving his unit, even if it 'teleported' models 12" away it would probably meet the needs of the tank shock rules.

Do the big shootas on the heavy support and the regular battlewagons not need people to shoot them? I thought they needed someone to pull the trigger, making one on the transport ones useless and the heavy support ones useless as well.

Orock wrote:Do the big shootas on the heavy support and the regular battlewagons not need people to shoot them? I thought they needed someone to pull the trigger, making one on the transport ones useless and the heavy support ones useless as well.

I think that was the case in the last codex, but I haven't seen it written in the new codex anywhere. If it is there, let me know.

Nope. Only the heavy weapons (Kannon) say 'no krew is included'. Thus, the big shootas are fired by the krew of the battlewagon. Until FAQ'ed, anyway.

Sadly, what I'd do is when the Kannons get knocked out, I'd move nobs to wagons with Kannons.

Alternatively you can bring gretchin units and krew the heavy wagons kannon.

I'd just not bother. You'll lose some battlewagons eventually, and the nobs can move over to new ones.

Seems orky.

Because of these type of armies I will almost never take an Anti-Armor/Heavy Infantry Unit that can't fire on the move.

So how would this list handle mec Tau/Eldar?

Negativemoney wrote:Because of these type of armies I will almost never take an Anti-Armor/Heavy Infantry Unit that can't fire on the move.

So how would this list handle mec Tau/Eldar?

Tou would need Deff Rollas and red paint jobs to crunch the enemy skimmers with d6 str 10 hits when you plow into them. I don't think many skimmers can withstand those many str 10 hits on their armor.

Stelek wrote:
Find your opponents nasty tank hunting unit, drop the Warbuggies in front of it.

Then eat a zero in sportsmanship for modelling buggies tall enough to block LOS to battlewagons.

This is an almost interesting list. But it's certainly not going to work by 'sitting back and pummeling the other guy'.

.....and then you go up against Necrons and lose.

Dark Eldar lists at 1850 could also have quite enough Blasters and Dark Lances to do well against this list. Although my most generic 1850 DE list only has 9 Lances and 4 Blasters because this many vehicles is pretty rare.

I would hate to be the one buying this list to build though, time to butter up that rich relative.

You might see something like this after the Adepticon team tourney. Someone might take all four 1000pt armies in a team and all they would need to do it add a few more wagons. All of the wagons based off of the baneblade hull would look forminable indeed.

Extra armor and grot riggers can keep most of the wagons rolling against even Necrons. It's not unbeatbale, but it is forminable.

mauleed wrote:

Stelek wrote:
Find your opponents nasty tank hunting unit, drop the Warbuggies in front of it.

Then eat a zero in sportsmanship for modelling buggies tall enough to block LOS to battlewagons.

Well, you can do it with the basic buggy that they sell in the box. It isn't about modelling the buggy huge, it's about putting the buggy that close to the shooty unit, and about angles.

Redbeard wrote:

mauleed wrote:

Stelek wrote:
Find your opponents nasty tank hunting unit, drop the Warbuggies in front of it.

Then eat a zero in sportsmanship for modelling buggies tall enough to block LOS to battlewagons.

Well, you can do it with the basic buggy that they sell in the box. It isn't about modelling the buggy huge, it's about putting the buggy that close to the shooty unit, and about angles.

They must sell a different box of buggies where you live.

Well actually, the plan is to have the buggies get blown up.

Figured everyone knew that...sorry.

Stelek wrote:Well actually, the plan is to have the buggies get blown up.

Figured everyone knew that...sorry.

And what difference does it make if the buggies get blown up? Unless you've modelled them to be taller than stock, their wrecks won't block any more LOS than the did when they were alive.

Why do I bother with you?

Most players and most tournaments treat wrecks as area terrain. It's KISS, not RAW. Yes, I know what the 'rules' say, thanks.

That said, I'd never use the actual buggy model because it's a serious POS and I don't own any of the crap Ork models thankfully.

I'd use the new trukk model, like pretty much every Ork player I know is going to (because it isn't a POS) and guess what? Those block LOS, even for you 'fun' guys that like to not have a blown up vehicle block LOS. Where's the fun for you? Sticking it to your opponent with a rules FAQ? Jesus.

So to be perfectly clear, your entire army is based on convincing your opponent to ignore a clearly unambiguous rule to your advantage.

If that works for you out there in Utah, no wonder you're such a king of the local scene.

Again with the insults, again I ask myself why I bother with you.

Actually I've been told at every GT to 'play nice' and allow it.

Maybe you haven't seen the new Ork Trukks. They block LOS pretty well. You can shoot AT Land Raiders and Leman Russ Turrets (maybe), that's about all. Monoliths are unaffected, but then...who cares?

Again, thank you for the diatribes. If you're done and have something useful to add to the discussion, now would be a great time.

I'm fairly confident pointing out that your army and it's tactics depend on either liberal modelling or ignoring the rules is a pretty useful addition to the discussion.

Really? When I say it's a new Ork Trukk, why don't you say you're wrong and apologize then?

Seems like you're trolling hard.

I got it.

You're saying that you're going to intentionally use ork trukks that are several times the size of a buggy to be buggies specifically to block LOS.

....and I'm saying that's at least liberal modelling (though I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you'd have a tough time pulling that off anywhere outside your local schoolyard).

But that was only revealed after you admitted your first angle was to get people to play wrecks as area terrain, contrary to the rules.

Remind me again what I was wrong about?

This list and the strategy involved in playing it will go to the Stelek hall of fame army lists. The scary lists that this Utah hero has stayed unbeatable with for the last decade. We already got the holo-field Vyper army of doom and the Piranha horde there so this is a welcome addition.

Legoburner hurry up with those new features, for gods sake!

Ding! This thread is done.