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Played my first game against the new Orks last night... and was promptly destroyed by Turn 4... I played Infantry heavy DA, 3 Tac Squads, 5 devs with 3 Missile Launchers, 10 scouts for counter-assault, 5 Terminators, a Pred Destructor and Sammael in Landspeeder. He took 3 truks full of slugga boyz, a battlewagon with Shoota boyz, 3 buggies with Rocket Launchas, 10 lootas, and 20 stormboyz with a Warboss on bike.

He got first turn, dumped the shootaboyz and killed one Terminator, I then killed all shoota boyz and destroyed a buggie and killed various other guys.

Turn 2 he assaulted my flank and pretty much crumpled my flank and rolled up through the middle. He did an excellent job of hiding his truks so I couldn't target them. By Turn 4 all I had left were a few dev's in a bunker and Sammael (who was pretty much invincible).

Some things I learned:

1) Putting my Marines in cover meant that we struck simultaneously due to his grenades. If I had been in the open, I would have struck first (which is really counter-intuitive to me).
2) Orks struggle to take down vehicles
3) I need mobile firepower to take down hiding stormboyz and truks. I couldn't target them at all due to terrain/battlewagon so I need mobile firepower to make sure that I can strand his boyz far enough from my battle line.

All of these were true last edition, but the new orks just seem so much meaner now. The ability to call a Waaagh and fleet combined with the cheaper boyz (and S4 on the charge) means that they are way deadlier now when they do actually hit my lines.

I think I'll be dropping the Devs and Scouts and taking an Assault Squad and another Predator Destructo (or maybe a Vindicator). Also, I will be using the Combat Squads rule to save the other half of the combat squad for counter assault rather than being bogged down and torn to pieces. The Orks could kill 5 marines easy but could not kill 10. This meant that in my turn I couldn't shoot at the large mobs in my line. By using Combat Squads I can let the orks assault 5 of the marines in front, then shoot/counter-assault with the marines in the second line. Most key though is taking some more mobile firepower to be able to move and draq LOS to his vehicles.

What have you learned? How have you adapted to the new Ork list?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I am thinking that Orks getting turn one equals for a harder recovery. (for there opponents that is) Even more than most other armies with the only other exception being stealer shock.

I have been taking Orks 4.0 lightly since I normally take a reasonable amount of anti-horde shooting.

Perhaps I need to rethink my army, but I will know better after a few games.

Depends how many horde units there are.

Even just basic boyz will sit there a long time with say a Terminator unit, and won't run. Same with a Wraithlord--who is really tying up who?

It's a real strength. I'm having a difficult time figuring out what to do with my drop pod Legion of the Damned list. It performs decently well, then totally chunks.

The rest of my armies are handling it decently enough, though I do worry about Orks getting two teleporty mobs into range of my shooty armies. Wiping out 60 Orks isn't easy!

It seems that the 2nd turn charge is what is getting me (I'm usually on the giving end with my Dark Eldar...). I need the mobile firepower to stop his truks and Stormboyz before they hit my lines.

Ozymadias, King of Kings

My friend and I played a game vs Orks in Apoc. MUCH like your list all foot slogging DA with me being a Company of Russ's and 2 Baneblades (6k Points). He killed 48 Marines turn one with 6 templates. Then turn 2 his flank attack came and destroyed almost the entire DA force. But won on turn 4 due to getting objectives after dwindling down the Ork force.

Things learned was Orks attacking in cover are extremely strong as well as Bikes are insane now in shooting and try to flank assault them with assault marines or something to meat grind them down the first round of combat.

6 Point boys with 1 point frags with a great stat line on the charge is insane.

In a single game I think I learned the true power of orks with KFF's and try to just dwindle down orks with templates + Heavy bolters/multi lasers and keep my guard in there chimeras and just try to counter move 6" a turn and shoot same with my russ's.

Just my observations.

I've been playing lots of marine armies, but with new Orks I'll be switching to Chaos. All my units will have more attacks across the board to help thin the Ork assaults before they swing, but more importantly the Lash of Submission will help keep a few Ork units from, hopefully, ever getting to my lines.

It may sound dumb as it is generally suicide vs all other armies, but the thing I fear from marines is the land raider. We simply have no effective way to counter it. However you are mistaken if you think more predators will help you. I regularly run 2 full loota squads in my 1850, and have yet to shoot at one and not destroy it. Hell If I roll 45 shots I have a better than average shot at killing a falcon, and thats saying something. If you really want to hose orks, whirlwinds are where its at.

The best way to counter Orks with marines that I have found is to have a good solid fire base with a way of reducing all the mobs to around 7 guys. Hit them with Fear of the Darkness and you are set.

One thing I found out about Lootas though is that 2 predators shooing at them will do enough damage that they will fail their leadership test and run away.

2 Predator Destructors and 3 Tornadoes is enough to take out the Lootas on the First turn or at lest make them much less of a threat.

There is a guy in LA that runs 3 Whirlwinds with mine fields.

I think that would do well against Orks.

I did that at the last Game Empire RTT and I won with it. It was awesome, in one game I did get all 18 minefields down. Total overkill, but funny nonetheless.
As usual, Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines will be the real bane of Ork armies.

Darrian

I play against the new Orks last thursday and got owned. My last Chaos Space Marine hit the ground on the bottom of the fourth. I made some mistakes, but I think its mostly the strength of the new list.

Tonight I face them with my crons, and I think they might have my number. That ridiculous movement + charge strength. Warbosses on bikes, Lootas, Stormboyz, The Waaargh!

Anyway, as to things I've learned:

Orks don't take a charge from a real CC unit well.
Formation is HUGE. If he lacks pie plates to push you out of CC formation you've got a good shot in combat.
Lootas will smoke any vehicle they fire at. Its like Necron shooting, death by 3-4 glances.
The Biker Warboss is pure murder.

If you can, take 2 monoliths with your crons. The ability to pull your guys out of CC will be huge. Also, the flux arc thing will be murder against orks.

I think there is a thread in discussions about Orks vs. Necrons.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Waaagh! People are really catching on to the new Orks. It seems people are seeing a lot of the same units though... Have any of you experienced games with
not-so-common units? I really want to see how Kanz, Battlewagons, and Big Gunz perfom before I buy them.. I'm against proxying...

I really think that the right IG army could handle them.
My friend has a huge DKoK army (probably 6K worth of models). In his army, he has "pie plates" galore. We're talking everything from S6 to S10.
IG can take the (Indirect Fire -- IF)Heavy Mortars with Infernus (Inferno?) shells. Those things are NASTY. If the template even TOUCHES a unit, whether any hits OR wounds are scored, the unit MUST "fall back" at the end of the shooting phase, unless it is fearless.
So, with an Ork Horde, the S6 IF infernus shell scatters. So? It's going to hit something! If you're sporting a unit of 30 Boyz & that plate targets the middle of them, even a scatter is likely to still hit the unit.

Now, granted, this is a FW model I'm talking about, but in NON sanctioned ("friendly") games, most people would allow them.

Of course, the Ork player would never want to play against them again, after the first time.

Add that to the Medusa Siege Engines, Earthshaker platform, Leman Russ Annihilator & various other goodies and those orks are hurting.
I'd LOVE to see the DKoK army my friend has play against some Orks.


While I specifically referred to IG, the point remains consistent. Large blast markers are essential for maximum carnage. I like the Whirlwind idea. LOL

Judging from the looks of things above, it seems to me that it's best to charge AGAINST orks, rather than be charged (or, at least, try NOT to be charged while in cover).


Eric

I've got two orc players at my FLGS and even though I've only seen one game against them (with the new Codex) my head has been churning with how to take them on with my Dark Eldar. I've always had trouble with orcs or anyone playing my own assault heavy game with models that are cheaper than mine tend to give me trouble. My assault units do ok against orcs, but with the opponent losing such cheap models each wound doesn't earn me as much as with MEQ's. Volume of fire threats from lootas make me worry tactically. Even if my squads win combat they are gonna take a high volume of fire as they try and get to the second assault.

With a distinct lack of big nasty template weapons (what I wouldn't give for a barbed strangler type template) I can't seem to get enough kills off.

I'll need more work vs the new Orcs before I probably pull down any real win, sparing team games of course where someone can fill my gaps.

While I prefer Wyches, I think the normally ignored Grotesque's can do wonders against Orks. Especially Trukk squads, not so much the larger foot squads.

If you really worry about taking Orks down with templates, bring 3 Haemonculi with Destructor.

Personally I'd just beat the crap out of them in close combat.

Use Wyches andl Warp Beast packs. 75 points for 20 S4 attacks @ I5, and you can assault easily. Plus 3 Agonizer attacks. It puts a hurt on, and is a cheap unit. Follow up with a Wych unit coming in somewhere else in the unit, and that should sort the Orks out.

I'd also always leave my Warriors out in the open and rapid fire the Orks whenever possible. Warrior squads I'd keep at high strength with 2 DL, but the Raider squads with a Shredder and a Splinter Cannon or Dark Lance have always done well for me. Multiple shredder hits will force him to spread out, making assaults for your throwaway assault units easier to win.

Do y'all think 3 indirect fire blast weapons are worth, say, 150 points and a heavy slot against Orks? I'm thinking a battery of shadow weavers (or mortars, or whatever) is going to help take down well-hidden trukks in turns one. Sure, the scatter is larger, but hits are doubled. Plus, bigger trukk models mean more hits.

I guess this would be weighed against taking a Prism, for example, or maybe a Russ.

Thoughts?

I played a fiends orks earlier today, i won, but i think he had some very bad luck.

Units that went well for him, lootas, flash gits, warboss.

His shock attack gun, rolled snake eye's turn one so can't really comment on anything other than it's ability to kill his own people.

6 assault marines with two flamers weighs in at around 130pts, and will absolutely murder orks by the bucket (you should kill around ten Stormboyz with flaming + charging even in suboptimal flaming circumstances).

Let them hit your firebase and trade a 200pt stormboyz squad for a 130pt las/plas squad. Woopie.