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Here is the list that I am currently working on for Adepticon. I have had some marginal success with it, though the warboss on a bike gets me every time.

HQ
Shas'el
-- Plasma Rifle, Missle Pod, Targeting Array, HW Multi Tracker
2 Body Guard
-- Plasma Rifle, Missle Pod, Targeting Array, HW Multi Tracker

Shas'el
-- Plasma Rifle, Missle Pod, Targeting Array, HW Multi Tracker
2 Body Guard
-- Plasma Rifle, Missle Pod, Targeting Array, HW Multi Tracker

Elites
3 Crisis Battle Suits
-- Plasma Rifle, Missle Pod, Multi Tracker

Troops
8 Fire Warrios
-- Shas'ui upgrade w/ bonding knife

8 Fire Warrios
-- Shas'ui upgrade w/ bonding knife

Fast Attack
8 Pathfinders
- Devilfish w/ Smart Missile System, Targeting Array, Multi Tracker, Target Lock, Decoy Launchers

Pirahna
-- Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers

Heavy
3 Broadsides
-- Advanced Stabalizer Systems

3 Broadsides
-- Advanced Stabalizer Systems

Hammerhead Gunship
-- Railgun, Smart Missile System, Multi Tracker, Target Lock, Decoy Launcher

------------------------

The main benfit that I like about this list is that I am capable of fighting hoards and MEQ lists from a safe distance and I do have the mobility to keep my self from being assaulted to quickly in the game. Using the Skimmers to block assault paths has worked to a point. Some times they get shot down and now I am dealing with an enemy with that has a 4+ cover. I played a similar list to this against orks the other night and it did well untill the biked warboss got ahold of me and took out about 65% of th army. Looking for any way to improve the list from the way it is.

What works for me for an all comers list:

Cheapy leader, plasma cyclonic ion blaster, targeting (+1 balistic)

Cheapy leader, missile pod, burst frag launcher, targeting


2x crisis missile pod, plasma, multi tracker


2x crisis missile pod, plasma, multi tracker

3x stealth suits
leader, drone controller, marker light, 3x marker drones

8x fire warriors
Devilfish,, forget what gear

8x fire warriors
Devilfish,, forget what gear

10x kroot

piranha
fusion, seeker missile, t. array

piranha
fusion, seeker missile, t. array

piranha
fusion, seeker missile, t. arra

Railhead
missiles, multi track, d pods

Railhead
missiles, multi track, d pods

Railhead
missiles, multi track, d pods

Lots of blast template shots, good for hordes. lots of vehicles to keep the squishies safe. Lots of little sets of drones to tie up devastator type squads. Lots of fun. Caution: I have been warned this list is less than friendly.

Disclaimer: This advice is all based on MathHammer (including AddHammer, MultiplyHammer and PartialDifferentialEquationHammer).

Lose the bodyguards for the HQ's and make them each an Elite choice. Adds two scoring units and drops the cost of EACH suit by 10 points. That's 40 points right there.

YMMV, but personally I'd drop the decoy launchers on the skimmers; they only work one out of six times on a glance, and even then you still have a 33% chance of biting the big one. Not good odds in my book.

If I were you, I'd seriously consider finding the points to add a pair of shield drones to each Broadside unit (it'll run you in the neighborhood of 35 points per unit) but really adds to the survivability.

All of your Crisis suits have the exact same loadout, and you may want to vary it a bit for different roles. The Deathrain (twin-linked Missile Pods) is popular and cheap, and you may want some Burst Cannons in there for anti-horde work.

Hope this helps!

They are a few things that I would consider.

I am going to toy with a list similar to Orock's later this month.

The main reason for the Body Guard is that at this point they both have BS4 and can be quite leathal mixed with the commander. I will try the separate units for the body guard and see how I like it.

I was actually considering doing a unit with flamers and burst cannons for that role but because of the short range it might be 2 to 3 turns before they see action and that is just idle points in my list that don't serve any purpose.

I might consider droping the Fusion blaster on the Pirahna for a Burst cannon though. This will make it effective at 18" rather than 12"

I'll be play testing heavily this month and finish building once I have a list that I feel will work for me in the long run.

I actually am looking at running suits with Burst Cannon and Plasma or Missile Pods, just for volume of fire.

-=Edit=- I just checked my codex, and unless you pay the additional cost for a Targeting Array, the bodyguards are still BS3. That makes them almost TWICE as much as a normal suit.

With the new Ork Dex coming into the mix it is not that bad of an Idea. I am in general not worried about TMCs as much now and if I am able to get enough SMS I don't need to worry about what they are protecting.

Thinking about it I should have just bought a bunch of Rare Earth Magnets for my Suits. Though buying another Rapid insertion force doesn't seem like a bad idea now.

Edit: Yeh I do pay for the Targeting array on them, and I do see your point when it comes to Bang for the Buck. I'll rework the list tomorrow to add some shield Drones to the Broadside Units. Hell I might just drop some fire warriors for it.

there are a few things i would change up. First up, the broadsides definatly need to have shield drones with them. Also I wouldnt run two squads of three unless you are really counting on that. I am under the firm belief that 2 hammer heads w rails and 3 broadsides is a very very strong heavy setup for tau. 3 broadsides is just asking for it. If anything gets into your back lines they die and you just took a huge kick to the pants in points.

I agree that suit squads need to be made to elites, there really isnt a need to use them as hq choices. I play every week at least 3 games and in my experince the TA is a worthless upgrade. TL your weapons and youll be happier.

So off of the points we have just freed up you can add a squad of TLMP xv8s and a hammer head.

Next up, no need to have the bonding knife on your fire warriors. Heck dont even take a squad leader. If they are taking casuilties they are done for anyways. Save the points and your already half way toward another pirahna. Or heck just add 3 more fire warriors. I think throwing shield drones on your xv8s is gonna save them alot too. theres another good spot to drop that extra 30 points.

Next up, no need to have the bonding knife on your fire warriors. Heck dont even take a squad leader. If they are taking casuilties they are done for anyways.

Yes, if the enemy continues firing at them. With no bonding knife, there's no need for him to do that; he can immediately switch to the next target instead.

Save the points and your already half way toward another pirahna. Or heck just add 3 more fire warriors.

Are three FWs worth two bonding knives? I'm inclined to say no.

The main reason for the Shas'ui upgrade is to bump the squad's leadership up to 8 which will help when it comes to FotD podding Librarians. Leadership 7 is just to low and I would gladly spend the points to bump them up to 8.

I am still toying around with the Heavy Support Configuration and right now I have found that having 2 units of Broadsides tend to help against TMCs and AV 14 Heavy Armies. Also having an additional 2 SMS in the list helps thin hoard armies down just as much as a template would from a Hammerhead.

I am coming around to the idea of dropping the TA and getting 2 more suits in the list.

This is probably pretty good against gaunt light godzilla and anything power armor based, but I think you'll have a tough time with gaunt based godzilla and walking orks. Like you said, just one warboss on a bike eats half your army.

And I strongly agree you need shield drones on the broadsides. They will be caught in the sights of a lascannon at some point.

These lists posted are confusing me.

No sniper drones?

Stealth markers cost too much.

Pathfinders cost too much.

Those two HQ's are not needed to be so expensive.

Not sure if you know this, but since you didn't post your points I wasn't sure what points level you were using, but it comes to 1854 in AB. Hopefully no one will have a tantrum about it. Might want to check that.

I'm going to give you a copy of my list in a seperate post, hopefully it'll give you some food for thought.

The list is brutal and most of the suggestions here are probably worthwhile and aren't going to make the army any worse, just different.

The only thing I'd like to see are some shield drones on the Broadsides, but that's just because I'm paranoid.

The main weakness of the army is the unblockable assaults, even with just one IC will rip you up as long as the person doing so knows when to turn the power weapons on/off depending on what phase it is. It's going to be near impossible to land Deamons onto you now, but IC's on Bikes (think Sorcerers w/ Lash, etc), Snikrot, and though not assaulty, Pods will give you troubles.

1850 Pts - Tau Empire Roster

1 Shas'el @ 102 Pts
Missile Pod; Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Plasma Rifle; Hard-wired Target Lock; Targeting Array OR Command and Control Node (see below)

3 Crisis Battlesuit @ 186 Pts
Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker

3 Crisis Battlesuit @ 186 Pts
Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker

3 Crisis Battlesuit @ 186 Pts
Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker

5 Fire Warrior @ 80 Pts
Add Shas'ui; Pulse Rifle (x5)
1 Shas'ui @ [30] Pts
Pulse Rifle; Markerlight

5 Fire Warrior @ 80 Pts
Add Shas'ui; Pulse Rifle (x5)
1 Shas'ui @ [30] Pts
Pulse Rifle; Markerlight

5 Fire Warrior @ 80 Pts
Add Shas'ui; Pulse Rifle (x5)
1 Shas'ui @ [30] Pts
Pulse Rifle; Markerlight

20 Kroot @ 140 Pts
Kroot Rifle (x20)

1 Piranha Light Skimmer @ 70 Pts
Fusion Blaster (x1); Gun Drones (x1); Targeting Array (x1)
2 Gun Drones @ [0] Pts
Twin Linked Pulse Carbines

1 Piranha Light Skimmer @ 70 Pts
Fusion Blaster (x1); Gun Drones (x1); Targeting Array (x1)
2 Gun Drones @ [0] Pts
Twin Linked Pulse Carbines

1 Piranha Light Skimmer @ 70 Pts
Fusion Blaster (x1); Gun Drones (x1); Targeting Array (x1)
2 Gun Drones @ [0] Pts
Twin Linked Pulse Carbines

1 Sniper Drone Controller @ 240 Pts
Sniper Drone Controller; Sniper Drone Controller; Pulse Pistol; Networked Markerlight; Drone Controller; Targeting Array; Stealth Field Generator
3 Sniper Drones @ [0] Pts
Rail Rifle and Target Lock (x3); Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array
1 Sniper Drone Controller @ [80] Pts
Pulse Pistol; Networked Markerlight; Drone Controller; Targeting Array; Stealth Field Generator
3 Sniper Drones @ [0] Pts
Rail Rifle and Target Lock (x3); Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array
1 Sniper Drone Controller @ [80] Pts
Pulse Pistol; Networked Markerlight; Drone Controller; Targeting Array; Stealth Field Generator
3 Sniper Drones @ [0] Pts
Rail Rifle and Target Lock (x3); Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array

1 Hammerhead Gunship @ 180 Pts
Railgun; Smart Missile System; Targeting Array; Multi-Tracker; Target Lock; Decoy Launchers; Landing Gear

1 Hammerhead Gunship @ 180 Pts
Railgun; Smart Missile System; Targeting Array; Multi-Tracker; Target Lock; Decoy Launchers; Landing Gear

Total Roster Cost: 1850

Tactics:

The Fire Warriors are cheap markerlight units. Fire Warriors are really terrible unless you bring alot of them, but that army isn't very viable in tournaments.

The Sniper Drones are good against marines and vehicles, and provide more markerlights. They have stealth, so usually are alive until assaulted.

Command Crisis suits are alot of points but with markerlights on other units, you can do without all the pricey upgrades and simply get more stuff in your army.

The Piranhas run cover for your Hammerheads, run them in front of 'em and force those target priority tests. When a lascannon shot goes into one, you'll be glad you did. I don't bother with trying to save Piranhas. They aren't strong enough or good enough to bother in my experience. If there's no tanks hiding in the back, you have units that don't have much to do.

I find a big Kroot unit is really helpful, in tournament lists people often have just 1 assault unit. The kroot can negate it. I usually stick my HQ in there with them, to keep them around against shooting. If it's too dangerous, you can just seperate from the squad. If I see alot of targets coming, I try to keep my leader near my crisis suits--I give mine the C&C Node, but if you really want BS5 shooting you can take the targeting array instead. I'd rather have better odds of passing target priority tests myself.

Anyway with 6 markerlights, you can usually get your 3 Crisis suit units to BS4 or get the Hammerheads to BS5, depending on your need. This is only a few less than what you have, but your markerlight units are expensive and fragile.

I prefer Hammerheads over Railgun suits because marines just blow the suits away, even with shield drones. The Hammerheads die too, but they aren't taking a morale check everytime a lascannon hit gets registered.

So to recap:

There's alot of shooting in this list. You can keep close combat units away from your lines with the kroot and the piranhas. Once people get to 24", your plasmaguns come into play and that really starts to hurt.

Anyway I think the important parts of this list are:

2 Railguns is usually enough anti-tank. 6 is excessive.
At long range, you have 9 S6 AP3 shots. That puts a hurt on shooty marines and godzilla that they can't do anything about until they are within your crisis suits death zone.
Speaking of which...at 12" the 3 units with a little markerlight help, can put out a stunning array of fire.
20 Plasmashots can cripple alot of armies already weakened by the 10 shots at long range. The missile pods firing the whole time is also key, and lets you down light vehicles without much fuss. If you face a horde of light vehicles, having 7 units with S6/S7 available will take them down pretty reliably.

I've had great success with this list. I hope that helps.

One question about your list, Stelek; why the Target Lock on the Shas'el? Do you join him to a Crisis Suit unit?

I join him to the Kroot so they are LD9 and don't run away when shot at. If someone gets within 24" of the Kroot, the Shas'el is often still firing at something I need his fire on, and the kroot aren't going to help (like light vehicles or MCs) so the kroot shoot one way and he shoots another. If the kroot aren't being shot at, I can move him around to a crisis suit unit where I may or may not want to fire him with them. If I get say a termie squad markerlit, and my leader is with a crisis suit team; the 4 suits firing (3 at BS4, 1 at BS5) really wipes them out and I don't need to burn extra markerlights for my leader.

Often with his BS4 he is the punker--he finishes off single model units.

Sometimes, your crisis suits get lit up and you only have 1 left, ya know? So I'll move the Shas'el into that unit, so the unit won't have to take Last Man Standing tests anymore. Usually only happens once a game, if that.
Being able to keep my leaders shots where I need them is helpful, and since I only have 1 LD9 BS4 guy...

Those are all the reasons why I can think of.

Negativemoney wrote:I was actually considering doing a unit with flamers and burst cannons for that role but because of the short range it might be 2 to 3 turns before they see action and that is just idle points in my list that don't serve any purpose.

I would like to know why your crisis suits would ever be close enough to the enemy to use a flamer, thats just poor tactics mate.

I have had a few games (against Eldar mostly) where having at least a single DSing suit with a flamer would have turned the game in my favor. Having a single suit that can scorch out units like Lootas, Pathfinders/Rangers, and IG Heavy weapons squads on the drop is invaluable. Yes you can put enough fire into them to do some damage but in the end if you are able to go Boo and drop a key part of your opponents fire base.

If you want a flamer buy one model with that indirect pie plate thing instead. 6" move models aren't going to get to use flamers often or well enough to make it worthwhile most of the time.

mauleed wrote:If you want a flamer buy one model with that indirect pie plate thing instead. 6" move models aren't going to get to use flamers often or well enough to make it worthwhile most of the time.

He's right, and it pairs very nicely with a Burst Cannon.

If you really want to have a flamer on a battle suit equip it as the third weapon and have your support system, it better be a multi tracker, hardwired that way you get the options you want and still keep regular combat effectiveness.