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nice.

Does this replace the Medusa V kind of campaign?

Seems better than that. If it weren't Apocalypse.

I have absolutely no desire to play an Apocolypse campaign. The concept of spending multiple weekends playing one game excites me about as much as going to the dentist. Having said that, good for those who would like such.

I be one of those...I really dig Apoc and am glad to see the support

Yes, there are two flaws in GW's cunning plan.

1. The 40K player community seems to be evenly divided between people who love Apoc and people who hate it.

2. They've just been closing a bunch of stores (game venues.)

How could number 1 be a flaw? The people who buy into
Apoc buy big, and maybe make up for the playa hatas.

For the business, if you think driving customers away is a good thing--that's pretty damn stupid.

I know Apoc is crap in my view and I have no interest in playing it.

If I want a big game, I'll play FOW where it scales and is very playable not some gimmick.

I think it's a cool idea. As for the split between people who love Apoc vs. those who hate it, I'm not sure if it's as even a 50/50 split as some people think.

In addition, I'd be curious to see how much GW product is bought on average by the two groups. I'm going to guess, based on absolutely nothing other than a hunch, that even independent of Apocolypse, the people who like Apoc buy more and are more likely to play in a store than those who don't. While I certainly could be wrong, Apoc is aimed at the creamy center of the hobby: those that like to play, paint, and collect, but would rather have more or larger armies than one smaller army that's painted great. They're also the gamers who enjoy long games, big games, and can, at least situationally, subdue their competitive nature.

Finally, I'm notu certain how on earth a massive supported campaign could actually drive away customers. At worst I'd imagine there would be some difficulty getting a table for open gaming a few saturdays. At best you can show multiple painted armies off during the busiest retail day of the week.

Dave Taylor posted the link in a new thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/206594.page

InquisitorMack wrote:From Belisarius over at Warseer:

Wait, so am I to understand that this document is the Belisarius memorandum? Does the name "Robert Durant" mean anything to you?

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Wait, so am I to understand that this document is the Belisarius memorandum? Does the name "Robert Durant" mean anything to you?

No. Should it?

For anyone who owns lots of Apoc-only minis (like multiple Warhounds or an Imperial Air Wing), this is a godsend. For the other 99.999% of us, I doubt the average joe will make it to more than an event or two. Still, nice option to have. Thanks, Dave and co.!

malfred wrote:How could number 1 be a flaw? The people who buy into
Apoc buy big, and maybe make up for the playa hatas.

I offer you two alternative strategies for a company running a special promotional event:

1. Run an event that can appeal to all of your customers.
2. Run an event that can appeal to half of your customers.

Strategy 2 is clearly worse unless the half of customers it appeals to are twice as enthusiatic as all of the customers.

GW may have decided that it will be much cheaper to do a very limited campaign based in local stores, than a worldwide campaign run via an web site.

Hellfury wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Wait, so am I to understand that this document is the Belisarius memorandum? Does the name "Robert Durant" mean anything to you?

No. Should it?

Yes? Robert Durant! C'mon anybody? You will provide the reference owed to us by the time I finish this cigar!

Our groups running an Apocalypse Campaign. The final three games are in two weeks over the course of a long weekend.

I don't see what the problem is, and I don't think Apoc is a gimmick. I actually enjoy it. Then again, I have 25,000 points of Guard, so it's quite easy to enjoy something of this scale...

BYE

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Hellfury wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Wait, so am I to understand that this document is the Belisarius memorandum? Does the name "Robert Durant" mean anything to you?

No. Should it?

Yes? Robert Durant! C'mon anybody? You will provide the reference owed to us by the time I finish this cigar!

I don't really see how the villain from Darkman is relevant here ?

I don't defend GW's business practices much, but I think this is a better idea than some people are making it out to be. First, no GW campaign/event/whatever is going to appeal to the entire community. Ard boyz, for example, appealed a pretty narrow band of player, and those were considered by many to be an outstanding success.

Second, I do think it's possible that the half that is excited about Apoc are twice as likely to spend money in a summer event.

Finally, I'm certainly not calling anybody out, but this is a classic example of the internet presenting GW with a Catch-22. If they support apocolypse with a major event, they are ignoring the hobbyists who don't like Apoc. If they do not have a major event, than they are failing to support Apocolypse and those people who bought it.

Essentially, I don't think this is any more a bad marketing strategy than the Golden Demons, Ironman battalion painting contests, Ard boys, or the previous web based campaigns such as Medusa IV.

Why is it impossible for GW to do both?

The value of the main summer campaign is that it could involve the entire 40K community in a fluff-driving scenario that even non-participants could enjoy via the means of the campaign site and weekly updates etc.

Apoc being essentially a knockabout game for a sub-set of players, it cannot involve the whole community to that extent.

OTOH, since it is run as a series of one-day events at stores, there is nothing to stop GW putting on the traditional 40K campaign as well.

reds8n wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Hellfury wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Wait, so am I to understand that this document is the Belisarius memorandum? Does the name "Robert Durant" mean anything to you?

No. Should it?

Yes? Robert Durant! C'mon anybody? You will provide the reference owed to us by the time I finish this cigar!

I don't really see how the villain from Darkman is relevant here ?

Well you see, it all makes sense when you remember that Peyton's girlfriend Julie has the Belisarius memorandum, so Strack sends Durant to get it, and then there's the fire and the explosion and the lab assistant and the dippy bird thing and and and...! Oh, nevermind.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Our groups running an Apocalypse Campaign. The final three games are in two weeks over the course of a long weekend.

I don't see what the problem is, and I don't think Apoc is a gimmick. I actually enjoy it. Then again, I have 25,000 points of Guard, so it's quite easy to enjoy something of this scale...

BYE

I don’t mean this in a derogatory way, but how is a 25,000 point game “enjoyable”? I’ve played big games like that and “enjoyable” is not the description I would use. Boring, time consuming, non-tactical, etc.. Those are the descriptions I would use.

Again I don’t mean to flame your post. But I’m curious to know why a 25,000 point battle excites you.

Apocalypse is championed as the game without limits. But I honestly think 3,000 is about the limit (for me). You can use the Apocalypse rules to create a cool fiction-based army and still play on a reasonable scale. But that’s just me.

~Logic

Logic wrote:I don’t mean this in a derogatory way, but how is a 25,000 point game “enjoyable”? I’ve played big games like that and “enjoyable” is not the description I would use. Boring, time consuming, non-tactical, etc.. Those are the descriptions I would use.

Again I don’t mean to flame your post. But I’m curious to know why a 25,000 point battle excites you.

It provides a spectacle. I personally don't get the point behind Apoc games around the 3,000 to 5,000 range, that just feels like a slightly longer regular game, albeit with some variant rules. Beyond that, though, when you start getting into 10,000 points or more for each side you get into the kind of scale you won't forget in a long time. It's something to do with your mates or your gaming club once or twice a year.

But turning up to a GW store to play against strangers in games that would probably have pretty tight time limits... not for me. I don't doubt for a second this is a solid campaign idea, it's bound to appeal to the kids just entering the hardcore stage of the hobby, when they're really, really committed to playing and expanding their armies. But definitely not for me.