Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

List I:

Lord, Shield, Pistol, RW: First Strike & +1 hit, RT: 4+ ward, Shieldbearers (Joins Hammerers)
BSB, RB: +1 CR, -D6 enemy charge, UnitStr x2 (Joins Hammerers)
Master Engineer, Brace of Pistols, RA: 1+ save & reroll failed saves (Joins Cannon #1)
Hammerers (21+Champ+Lord+BSB), Shields, full command
Miners (19+Champ), full command
Warriors #1 (23+Champ), Shields, full command
Warriors #2 (23+Champ), GreatW, full command
Thunderers (9+Champ), Shields, full command
Cannon #1 (3+Master Engineer Hero), R: Flaming attacks, fires every turn regardless, +1 CR
Cannon #2 (3+Engineer), R: Flaming attacks, fires every turn regardless, Unbreakable
Gyrocopter

Total: 2250pts on the spot!


List II:

Lord, Shield, Pistol, RW: First Strike & +1 hit, RT: 4+ ward, Shieldbearers
BSB, RB: +1 CR, -D6 enemy charge, UnitStr x2
Master Engineer, Brace of Pistols, RA: 1+ save & reroll failed saves (Joinar Bolt Throwern)
Hammerers (21+Champ+Lord+BSB), Shields, full command
Miners (19+Champ), full command
Warriors #1 (23+Champ), Shields, full command
Warriors #2 (23+Champ), GreatW, full command
Thunderers (11+Champ), Shields, full command
Bolt Thrower (3+Master Engineer Hero), R: Flaming attacks, +1 Str, +1 CR
Cannon (3+Engineer), R: Flaming attacks, fires every turn regardless, Unbreakable
Gyrocopter

Total: 2250pts on the spot!




I havn't realy played since 5th edition, so thus I go here for advice and pointers on the lists. Yes, they both lack anti-magic and anti-fear/terror, and barely makes up on that with the strength of the Dwarves (artillery and ranged supremancy), but this is my somewhat fluffy initial approach. Feel free to hack it appart! (Constructivity gains virtual cookies! )

Units are aimed to be in 4 ranks, 6 wide.


I can see your point with the characters, only that I'd rather go with the always strike first, else I'll get killing blow:ed every single challenge.


The -D6 charge is there for the few times it DOES matter, as it will then give me a nice and juicy target to counter-charge the next turn! And I have been the victim of a full elite guard unit with full ranks, command BSB in, granted it was the flimsy pansies (HE) but between the insaane spear rank fighting and the silly always strike first racial, the stacking of CR bonuses ment that I got owned HARD. (I used my Cult of Slaanesh. ) I can't let my Lord leave the hammerers as that will loose the synergy. And tossing the BSB into a more or less sacrifical unit is folly... Then I'd rather get another 24-dwarf unit or a couple of thunderer units extra by dropping him altogether! And no BSB is bad for morale.


The Master Engineer is a protective part of my battle plan as there tend to be tons of eagles and other evil stuff that decends upon the warmachines on turn 2, he will add a nice oomph in melee for one of the cannons/BTs as well as adding some bonuses. (BS5 is nice for the BT! )


You are essentially telling me to drop the cannons and thunderers along with the Master Engineer to take 6x BTs instead? That, along with enhaced characters will kill my Comp and earn me a spot among the min-compers ( ) first round! (And thus get spelled to hell, or Chariotted / arrowed / cav charged whatever into oblivion. I will consider it, but with 6-8 warmachines (besides the high cost of getting another 7 BTs and another Gyro) my comp is getting dangerously low, from early 20s to maybe as low as 10-11(!). _IF_ I'd opt for warmachine heavy approach,I'd rather take 3 or 4 cannons. (As I got 3x skullpass ones and can easily get a 4th from a friend who quit the game, thus not needing to buy that many BTs! )


The general weaknesses of hte dwarves are the lack of Magic defence, psycology (fear/terror, partly offset by my high US) and the snail speed manuvering. (In a game where 99% of it is manuvering to outflank the enemy, can be offset by oathstones to a degree, but nothing I'd like to rely on. ) The lack of manuverable firepower (beside the Gyro) is also a pain, even my scouting elements have "move or fire" ranged weaponry!



Thanks alot for the constructive feedback! Might not be 100% to my playstyle, but it is always good to look beyond and consider other options than those one goes for per default!

Dwarf Lord @ 296 Pts
General; Shieldbearers; Great Weapon; Gromril Armour
Runic Armour [5]
Rune of Stone
Runic Talisman [45]
Master Rune of Spite
Runic Weapon [70]
Master Rune of Kragg the Grim
Rune of Fury
Rune of Snorri Spangelheim
BSB @ 190 Pts
Gromril Armour; Battle Standard
Runic Banner [100]
Master Rune of Fear
Rune of Stoicism
Master Engineer @ 130 Pts
Brace of Pistols; Gromril Armour
Runic Armour [50]
Master Rune of Gromril
Rune of Resistance
21 Hammerers @ 303 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield; Full Command
20 Warriors @ 205 Pts
Heavy Armour; Shield; Full Command
20 Longbeards @ 315 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Full Command
Runic Banner [30]
Rune of Courage
10 Thunderers @ 155 Pts
Dwarf Handgun; Light Armour; Musician, Kaptain
20 Miners @ 275 Pts
Blasting Charges; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Full Command
1 Bolt Thrower @ 95 Pts
Engineering Runes [50]
Rune of Burning
Rune of Penetrating
Valiant Rune
3 Crew @ [0] Pts
Light Armour
1 Cannon @ 145 Pts
Engineer
Engineering Runes [35]
Rune of Forging
1 Engineer @ [20] Pts
Brace of Pistols; Light Armour
3 Crew @ [0] Pts
Light Armour
1 Gyrocopter @ 140 Pts

Dispel Pool: 4
Models in Army: 104
Total Army Cost: 2249


I would realy like to ad a brace of pistols to the Thunderer Kaptain, but lack 1pts to do so(!). Silly, I know... :( Maybe if I include a Runesmith, and thus shave points anyway I might find room for it! Speaking of that, in order to actuly afford a Runesmith, I need to drop the Gyro or shrink units, both hard losses IMO. IF I take a Runesmith I will most likely go for the Ballance rune, as it removes a PD for the enemy and gives me an extra DD. Fair play, eh? For survivability of BSB and Runesmithy, I can "grow a beard" and plant them both in the middle of the Hammerer Unit, untargetable but still fill their role. :evil:


Longbeards in there, and banner-immuned to fear/terror and will thus act as one cornerstone to the army in their own right!


The miners? They are somewhere inbetween Warriors and Longbeards, and their Blasting Charges can be handy at times too. They are fluffy and moreso even FUN. (Jokes about "lost dwarves" are so easy to come by if they fail to turn up, or "just" turn up too late... ) And Having an unit "automatically" in the enemy deployment midgame is never wrong. It is handy for threatening Warmachines, grabbing objectives and generally force the opponent to consider this threat at his rear. (Fleeing troopers nearby? Let's chase them with the Gyro toward the Miners! )



BTW, thanks ALOT for the _extreamly_ constructive critisism, Chaoslord! It sure made an inpact! How do you rate my changes above? And is a Runesmith a worthy enoth addition to loose the ever so usefull Gyro?

Chaoslord wrote:The 2k list(s) look pretty good to me, and I like the 2250 list better now,
[...]

Good to hear!

Chaoslord wrote:
[...]
Here's some additional comments for the latter 2250 list, though.
If I'd run a bsb with plethora of banner runes, I generally try to squeeze in rune of guarding so he's less likely to be killed outright. All dwarf shooting units should generally get shields as with small investment you get some extra protection vs shooting. The 4+ save in cc is the killer here, though. You can trade the champ for that for example.
[...]

Good idea on them Thunderers, consider it done!

Chaoslord wrote:
[...]
The miners should really swap the charges for a steamdrill for the champ, as the fact is they are one of the few dwarf units that will usually be charging if they come out of the tunnels. (standard scenario without anvil: miners come in, opponents turn/shuffle/run, miners charge...).
[...]

Noted, and will be play-tested. (I made two versions of my Miner Kaptain, one with and one without the drill to have the option available without any hassle! )

Chaoslord wrote:
[...]
Also a worthwile upgrade would be to give engineer for the bt too as it a) makes it better to hit things, as there are times when you don't want to keep the master engineer there and b) gives it chance to hold table quarters if the master engineer is attached to it.
[...]

Master Engineer is BS5, and the Engineer is "only" BS4. The D3 -> D6 wound bonus is negligable on the cannon 80% of the times I will shoot it, so with that in mind I hink that he is best used to make my BT hit home another 16.6% of the times... Or is that reasoning illogcal? As I said, I am very much a noob on the "new edition", so I might prioritice badly...

Chaoslord wrote:
[...]
Regarding the runesmith situation, I'll say it's better to probably experience first hand what opposing magic can do so you can weight in your mind if you need scrolls (or equivalents) and extra dispel dice. Most experienced players will not leave for battle without some magic defense, though.
[...]

I played my Cult of Slaanesh the other day in a local tournament and encountered a VampC player. Necrarch with the +6" spell range bloodline and then did that nova spell. (Originally 12" nuke, turned into a 18" nuke from hell. )

Needless to say, I got creamed pretty much(!).

Chaoslord wrote:
[...]
(btw. rune of balance is generally better vs medium magic and with multiple runesmiths, and multiple spellbreakers are better vs heavy magic)
[...]

Understood. Will look into the matter,have already put a Runesmith on the painting table. (Old OOP Anvil-guard, will look awesome as a "lowly" Runesmith. Not too busy and not too lame, his pose reflects his statue and place in the army IMO. )

However, what to do to get room for him? Drop all 20-units to 15? Or simply get rid of my Gyro?




Thanks once again for your outstanding analysis and comentary on the subject!

Remind me why a bolter is better agains chariots than a cannon? S6/7 vs S10? :S