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I was down and checked on the codex today, but of course I got to thinking after I'd already left. When do you roll for Red Thirst? After deploying the unit, or in the deployment phase but before deploying?

JohnHwangDD wrote:I'm guessing the Storm Raven will split the difference between the Thunderhawk and Valk.

In transport capacity and size, yes. Design may follow the thunderhawk.
( liked all those valk-based conversions, still space marine vehicles tend to differ from Imperial guard vehicles ).

Ravajaxe wrote:Who would want to carry along in his FLGS (or worse : in a tournament) such a huge figurine that does not fit in any available bag ?

Removable wings wouldn't be impossible.
Another option could be a wings setting like the MRCA Tornado. Spread out for atmospheric travel, pull in for orbital travel.

Really no piece of fluff to base any guesses on in the codex?

Mahu wrote:

Techmarines are there. they even have bolster defenses.
And I'm pretty sure vanguard don't have descent of angels.

I will double check to be sure, but I am pretty sure the whole "Vangaurd don't get decent of angels" issue was solved by the jump pack entry in the wargear section. I will confirm tonight.

AgeOfEgos wrote:Any model with a jump pack has the Descent of Angels rule. Which means 20 point Vanguard now reroll reserve rolls, only scatter 1d6 and can assault the turn they arrive. You can also throw inferno pistols on whomever you want and have the usual goodies inside (Power fists, storm shields, etc). Unfortunately, I'm not sure if attaching a priest to them would remove their heroic intervention rule. If it does, then they're still an interesting choice. If it doesn't.....oh my deep strike.

Attaching the Priest might jack the Heroic Intervention, but it shouldn't be too hard to position another unit with the Priest where you intend to deep strike the Vanguard. In a transport, that 6" bubble is a lot bigger.

So, I just saw the preview codex at the shop.
Techmarines are not independent characters like vanilla marines.
Their unit has the option to upgrade their servo-arms to servo-harnesses. Servitors have servo-arms. . .

Read the codex at my local store today.

Fast Vindicators blow my mind.

davidson wrote:Read the codex at my local store today.

Fast Vindicators blow my mind.

I just tried a test battle with the new Dex (I remember a lot of the important stuff) against 'Nids, and came to a few conclusions:
- Fast Vindicators are hilarious. Moving 12" then letting a Genestealer Brood have a Demolisher shot is lethal.
- Predator Annihilators don't suck as much now. Moving 6" and firing any amount of weapons you like is great.
- Mephiston is a beast, but you have to play him carefully. He got assaulted by a Trygon, which he promptly killed in one round of Assault (Trygon was on 4 wounds left). Easiest way to kill him is gonna be plasma weapons I think. Even with T6 and 5 Wounds, Plasma should drop him fast. BA players might need to give him Cover Saves with other squads since he has no Inv save.
- Dante is...ok. His Death Mask ability is really nice, but at the end of it all he's still only S4 with a master-crafted power weapon. He's decent when you can Deep Strike in (with no scatter), and Melta a tank but aside from that he's not amazing. Not sure he's worth the points value.
- TH/SS Termies are so much better with the 3+ SS save. I know vanilla Marine players know this, but being stuck with the 4+ Inv in CC only was a pain as BA/DA/BT? A squad of 5 went through a Scythed Hierodule (a 6W T8 S10 Gargantuan Creature with 7 attacks), a Hive Tyrant and 2 Tyrant Guard. They lost 4/5 members on the way (to the Tyrant), but it was amazing seeing a 200+ point unit take out a 600 point Apoc 'Nid and then a HT
- Happiness is finally being able to field Sternguard

I need to try a few lists out (and get a Baal Predator...) but I was surprised with some of the results.

I'm eager to see some of the TH/SS builds...with FNP priests. I often lose/kill TH/SS terminators with volume of fire...and a 2+/3++/4+ FNP is going to be hell to get rid of.

Downside on the TH/SS termies is that in order to get the TH/SS on the assault terminators in the BA codex, you have to pay extra points for each model taking them.

I'm really intrigued by the Priests, they seem to be pretty much head and shoulders above the rest of the book in terms of the "wow that is really really good" factor.

All of the rhino hulls being fast also seems pretty solid, even if I have to spend a few more pionts per tank to get them. Moving and shooting the guns on my meched up phalanx just seems to be pretty good, especially with dakka preds, razorbacks and vindicators being involved.

Caffran9 wrote:Downside on the TH/SS termies is that in order to get the TH/SS on the assault terminators in the BA codex, you have to pay extra points for each model taking them.

I'm really intrigued by the Priests, they seem to be pretty much head and shoulders above the rest of the book in terms of the "wow that is really really good" factor.

All of the rhino hulls being fast also seems pretty solid, even if I have to spend a few more pionts per tank to get them. Moving and shooting the guns on my meched up phalanx just seems to be pretty good, especially with dakka preds, razorbacks and vindicators being involved.

Or simply moving 18 inches, setting up a very quick second-turn assault.

SS/TH FNP termies sounds pretty nice, but that's a pretty damn expensive units. Being more or less twice as survivable as regular termies against small-arms fire (which in my experience is always what ends up taking them down) is pretty nice, I know I have enough trouble trying to take out 2+/3++ units with my 'crons.

Caffran9 wrote:Downside on the TH/SS termies is that in order to get the TH/SS on the assault terminators in the BA codex, you have to pay extra points for each model taking them.

I'm really intrigued by the Priests, they seem to be pretty much head and shoulders above the rest of the book in terms of the "wow that is really really good" factor.

All of the rhino hulls being fast also seems pretty solid, even if I have to spend a few more pionts per tank to get them. Moving and shooting the guns on my meched up phalanx just seems to be pretty good, especially with dakka preds, razorbacks and vindicators being involved.

*Shrug*, 5 points more is nothing. If TH/SS terminators were 45 points in the Vanilla dex, people would still buy them.

The priest FNP becomes a larger force multiplier when he's with an expensive unit. For example, if those TH/SS terminators only make one FNP roll all game...the priest has essentially paid for himself. He doesn't even necessarily need to get out of the Raider with them!

Of course, let's not forget furious charge makes their TH str. 9...or those mixed units of LC/TH terms striking at ini. 5 become really nasty.

Right, 5 points for what you're getting from the upgrade is absolutely worth it. I won't disagree. I've always been upset that vanilla marines got them for no extra points cost. However, because they get them for free, I'm a bit upset that as a BA player, I have to pay for them. It feels like consistancy would be nice I guess.

Caffran9 wrote:Right, 5 points for what you're getting from the upgrade is absolutely worth it. I won't disagree. I've always been upset that vanilla marines got them for no extra points cost. However, because they get them for free, I'm a bit upset that as a BA player, I have to pay for them. It feels like consistancy would be nice I guess.

Well, they were likely under cost in the vanilla dex. Just be glad you aren't a SW player wanting to build TH/SS Terminators .

If you're that bothered by having to pay more then play with the Space Marines codex.

I'm obviously not "that bothered" at all, I was merely pointing out that I find it to be an unfortunate inconsistancy between the books. I think the ones in the vanilla book are undercosted, but I would rather them also have to pay 5 points more, or BA not have to pay any points. It isn't something that keeps me awake or bothers me to any degree that is relevent to well, anything. I was just pointing it out as an interesting difference and inconsistancy.

Well, if you're sticking a Sanguinary Priest inside a unit of Terminators, you want to give him a suit of TA as well. With the smaller unit size, it will be harder to keep him out of combat, which means he will be targeted with extreme prejudice (if faced with such a unit and not packing power weapons by the score, I'd throw everything at the priest before any of the terminators). It's only 20 or 25 points, and he gets a power weapon in the bundle, so it's definitely worth it. 300 points for 5 TH/SS terminators and a priest in terminator armor isn't bad.

Caffran9 wrote:I'm obviously not "that bothered" at all, I was merely pointing out that I find it to be an unfortunate inconsistancy between the books. I think the ones in the vanilla book are undercosted, but I would rather them also have to pay 5 points more, or BA not have to pay any points. It isn't something that keeps me awake or bothers me to any degree that is relevent to well, anything. I was just pointing it out as an interesting difference and inconsistancy.

Well in fairness access to furious charge and deep striking off of land raiders does alter their performance slightly (though only slightly). This is realistically a case of a price adjustment going forward to correct a past mistake. They can't alter the costs on assault terminators (they were too cheap), but they can sure as hell do so on blood angels terminators (still too cheap at 45, but it's a start). Your vanguard marines and devastator weapons are cheaper as far as I've seen so it swings both ways.

Blood Angels have a really crowded elites section. So many good choices: sanguinary priests (!), assault terminators, furioso librarians, vanguard, sternguard, all are great.

I'm thinking of using the following as a nice little elite base for my blood angel side project. How does this sound?

- Dante (HQ)
- Sanguine Guard (5)
- Assault Marine sqaud (5, power weapon)

Later up a large section of DC ;p

I actualy think the +5 TH/SS is not bad. Mabye we will see more LC out there.

Caffran9 wrote:I'm obviously not "that bothered" at all, I was merely pointing out that I find it to be an unfortunate inconsistancy between the books. I think the ones in the vanilla book are undercosted, but I would rather them also have to pay 5 points more, or BA not have to pay any points. It isn't something that keeps me awake or bothers me to any degree that is relevent to well, anything. I was just pointing it out as an interesting difference and inconsistancy.

Why should they be consistent though? I realize a Marine is a Marine is a Marine, but if the books are all exactly the same, except the BA's or SW's or whatever get all the extras on top of that, why would you ever play with the vanilla codex?

At 70 pages and with the codex info and models now all being pretty well know time to let this thread die. Further discussion can and indeed should be continued in the relevant boards.