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This is the codex in it's final form, minus some tweaking, renaming and editing I want to do to the Gifts.

See here for a discussion: http://forum.emperorschildren.net/viewtopic.php?t=1708
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ARMY SPECIAL RULES:

Enraptured of Slaanesh:
An EC army may take, as allies, any unit specified as Slaaneshi from the Codex: Chaos Daemons army list. Specifically: Keeper of Secrets, Fiends of Slaanesh, Daemonettes and Seekers of Slaanesh (Masque, slaanesh herald, or daemon prince marked by slaanesh may NOT be taken), which follow the same rules and points values as detailed in Codex: Chaos Daemons, following these general guidelines:
Summoning: All summoned slaaneshi daemons are always in reserve, even in scenarios that do not feature this rule, and are rolled for normally from turn 2 onwards, deep striking anywhere on the table when you get them, also normally.
Icons: Count as teleport homers to DSing daemons.

Blessing of the Dark Prince:
Such is their devotion to Prince of Excess, the Emperors Children live on the edge of excitement and experience, revelling in the joy of life and battle. They take a perverse pleasure in all experience, no matter how terrifying or bizarre. Unafraid of overwhelming numbers they are hence immune to the psychology of lesser mortals and throw themselves ecstatically at the enemy; death holds no fear for them, but is seen as a welcome consummation of experience.
EC with this ability never count as having lost a combat and thus are no longer subject to the "No Retreat" rule.

Sacred Number: 6.
Any EC CSM or daemon unit containing 6 models, or a multiple of it, is considered "Favoured of Slaanesh". Note that attached Independent Characters (such as is the case with a Lord and his retinue) DO count toward this number. A unit of 6 Chosen, plus a Chaos Lord would not be considered Favoured, for example.
- Favoured CSM units may upgrade one of their members to an Aspiring Champion for free.
- Favoured Daemon Packs MUST add +1 to their Summoning Roll when rolling for reserves, even if this means that they would arrive when you don't want them to..


(Note that any options/rules invented for this codex will be detailed in full at the end of this post)

HQ:

Special Character HQ: Lucius the Eternal:

As C:CSM 4.0, pages 54, 91

Special Character HQ: Doomrider:

Doomrider: WS6 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I6 A4 LD10 Sv3+/5+ PTS/MODEL: 180

Unit Type: Jetbike

Wargear:
- jetbike with TL meltagun
- Plasma gun
- frag, krak grenades
- bolt pistol
- Power Weapon
- Combat Drugs

Special rules:
- Fearless
- Eternal Warrior
- Mark of Slaanesh (included above)
- Warp Scream
- Wheels of Fire: Although not truly a skimmer, Doomriders bike has an unearthly ability to move over and through things, and so consequently is treated as a jetbike.
- 5+ INV save (included above)
- Summoned Daemon (in the same way as a unit of daemons)
- He Comes, He Goes: Roll a D6 for doomrider at the start of each EC players turn that he is on the table. On a 1, he is removed from play and redeployed 3D6" from the centre of the table with the use of the scatter dice. If this would mean that he is deployed off-table, count him as a casualty.

Special Character HQ: Zarakynel Greater Daemon of Slaanesh:

Zarakynel WS10 BS3 S7 T8 W6 I9 A6 LD10 -/4+ PTS/MODEL:666

Unit Type: Monstrous Creature

Wargear: The Souleater Sword

Special Rules:
- Fearless
- Summoned Greater Daemon
- Possession: The Keeper of Secrets must possess another model to enter the battlefield. See the Daemon special rules for more details.
- Fearsome: This Keeper of Secrets is both terrifying and seductive to behold. If an enemy unit has to take a Morale check after losing a close combat they must do so at -2 Leadership.
- Invulnerable: The Keeper of Secrets has an Invulnerable save of 4+.
- Living Icon: Counts as an Icon.
- Master Sorcerer: Zarakynel is master sorcerer and has the Lash of Submission, Gift of Chaos, Warptime, Doombolt, Wind of Chaos, She Who Thirsts, Taste Our Pleasures, Rapture and Delicious Excrutiation psychic powers. She may use all of these powers in one turn, though a single power may not be cast more than once.
- Daughter of Slaanesh: Zarakynel has the following abilities - Fuelled By Pain, Touch of Slaanesh, Psychic Cacophony, Allure of Slaanesh, Aura of Acquiescence.
- The Mark of Slaanesh (included above)
- Warp Scream
- The Souleater: No hits made with the Souleater will ever need worse than a 4+ to wound. Ignores invulnerable saving throws.

HQ: 0-1 Emperors Children Daemon Prince:

EC Daemon Prince: WS7 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I6 A4 LD10 Sv3+/5+

PTS/Model: 115

Unit Type: Monstrous Creature

Numbers/Squad: 1

Wargear: Single CCW

Special Rules:
- Fearless
- 5+ INV Save
- Eternal Warrior
- Mark of Slaanesh (included above)

Options:
May choose one of the following:
- Daemonic Flight for +20pts
- Daemonic Speed + 15pts
May choose any of the following Slaanesh Gifts:
- Warp Scream +6pts
- Fuelled By Pain +15pts
- Touch of Slaanesh +10pts
- Psychic Cacophony +2pts
- Taste Our Pleasures +10pts
- Doom Siren +15pts
- Combat Drugs for +25pts
The Daemon Prince may become a psyker by choosing one of the following psychic powers:
- She Who Thirsts +30pts
- Rapture +20pts
- Delicious Excrutiation +12pts
- Lash of Submission +20pts
- Doombolt +10pts
- Warptime +25pts
- Gift of Chaos +30pts
- Wind of Chaos +30pts
May have a Personal Icon for +5pts
May have any of the following:
- Doom Siren +15pts
- Combat Drugs for +25pts

HQ: Keeper of Secrets:

See Codex: Chaos Daemons, pages 29, 79

HQ: Emperors Children Chaos Lord:

EC Chaos Lord: WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I6 A3 LD10 Sv3+/5+

PTS/Model: 95

Unit Type: Infantry

Numbers/Squad: 1

Wargear:
- Power Armour
- Bolt Pistol
- CCW
- frag, krak grenades

Special Rules:
- Fearless
- Independent Character
- 5+ Invulnerable Save (included above)
- Mark of Slaanesh (included above)
- Warp Scream

Options:
May replace bolt pistol with a plasma pistol for +15pts
May take one of the following abilities:
- Infiltrate OR Tank Hunter OR Furious Charge +15pts
May replace CCW or bolt pistol with one of the following
- Power Weapon +15pts
- Power Fist +25pts
- Single Lightning Claw +25pts
- Pair of Lightning Claws (replaces pistol and CCW) +30pts
- Blissgiver +40pts
- Castigator +25pts
- Needle of Desire +30pts
- Sceptre of Degradation - 30pts
May take one of the following:
- TL Bolter +5pts
- Combi-Weapon +10pts
- Sonic Blaster +7pts
May take any of the following:
- Melta Bombs +5pts
- Personal Icon
- Doom Siren +15pts
- Combat Drugs for +25pts
May take one of the following:
- Jump Pack/Wings +20pts
- Bike +30pts (may exchange its TL Bolter for a sonic blaster for +2pts)
- Steed of Slaanesh +25pts
- Daemonic Speed +15pts
May choose up to 3 of the following:
- Daemonic Essence - 15 pts
- Daemonic Mutation - 15pts
- Daemonic Resilience - 10 pts
- Daemonic Strength - 10 pts
May choose any of the following Slaanesh Gifts:
- Fuelled By Pain +15pts
- Touch of Slaanesh +10pts
- Psychic Cacophony +2pts
- Siren +10pts
- Warp Scream +6pts
May choose a retinue from the Chosen entry in the Elites section; forms a unit with these if he does so and may not leave them.
OR:
May instead replace all wargear with Terminator Armour, TL Bolter and power Weapon for +30pts
In this case may only choose options from the following list:
May take any of the following:
- personal icon +5pts
- doom siren +15pts
- combat drugs +25pts
May replace TL Bolter with one of the following:
- Sonic Blaster for +2 pts
- Combi-Weapon for +5pts
May replace power weapon or TL bolter with:
- power fist for +10pts
- chainfist for +15pts
- Single Lightning Claw for +10pts
- Blissgiver +40pts
- Castigator +25pts
- Needle of Desire +30pts
- Sceptre of Degradation - 25pts
May replace TL bolter and power weapon for a pair of lightning claws for +10pts
May choose up to 3 of the following:
- Daemonic Essence - 15 pts
- Daemonic Mutation - 15pts
- Daemonic Resilience - 10 pts
- Daemonic Strength - 10 pts
May choose any of the following Slaanesh Gifts:
- Fuelled By Pain +15pts
- Touch of Slaanesh +10pts
- Psychic Cacophony +2pts
- Siren +10pts
- Warp Scream +6pts
May choose a retinue from the Terminator entry in the Elites section; forms a unit with these if he does so and may not leave them.

HQ: Emperors Children Chaos Sorceror:

EC Chaos Sorceror: WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I6 A3 LD10 Sv3+/5+

PTS/Model: 105

Unit Type: Infantry

Numbers/Squad: 1

Wargear:
- Power Armour
- Bolt Pistol
- Force Weapon
- frag, krak grenades

Special Rules:
- Fearless
- Independent Character
- 5+ Invulnerable Save (included above)
- Mark of Slaanesh (included above)
- Warp Scream

Options:
A Sorceror is a psyker and must have one of the following psychic powers:
- She Who Thirsts +25pts
- Rapture +15pts
- Delicious Excrutiation +12pts
- Lash of Submission +20pts
- Doombolt +10pts
- Warptime +25pts
- Gift of Chaos +30pts
- Wind of Chaos +30pts
May choose any of the following Slaanesh Gifts:
- Fuelled By Pain +15pts
- Psychic Cacophony +2pts
- Warp Scream +6pts
May take one of the following:
- Jump Pack/Wings +20pts
- Bike +30pts (may exchange its TL Bolter for a sonic blaster for +2pts)
- Steed of Slaanesh +25pts
May replace bolt pistol with a plasma pistol for +15pts
May take one of the following Veteran Skills:
- Furious Charge +15pts
- Infiltrate +15pts (not compatible with steed)
- Tank Hunter +15pts
May take a Sonic Blaster +7pts
May take any of the following:
- Melta Bombs +5pts
- Personal Icon +5pts
- familiar +5pts
- Doom Siren +15pts
- Combat Drugs for +25pts
May instead replace all wargear with terminator armour, TL bolter and force weapon for +15pts. While wearing terminator armour, he can be given all of the options listed in this entry except for melta bombs, plasma pistol, jump pack/wings, bike, steed and infiltrate. In addition, he may replace his TL bolter with a combi-weapon for +5pts.


ELITES:

Elites: Emperor's Children Chosen

EC Chosen: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A1 LD10 Sv3+ PTS/MODEL23
- EC Chosen Champion: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A2 LD10 Sv3+ PTS/MODEL+10


Unit Type: Infantry

Numbers/Squad: 4-10

Wargear:
- Power Armour
- Bolt Pistol
- Frag, Krak Grenades
- CCW
- Bolter

Special Rules: Mark of Slaanesh (included in profile), Fearless.
Veterans of the Long War: EC Chosen may choose between one of the following Veteran Skills:
- Infiltrate
- Furious Charge
- Tank Hunters

Characters:
Any EC Chosen may be upgraded to an Aspiring Champion at +10pts-
May replace bolt pistol with a plasma pistol for +15pts
He may replace his CCW with one of the following;
- Power Weapon +15pts
- Power Fist +25pts
- Lightning Claw +25pts
- Pair of Lightning Claws (replaces BP, Bolter and CCW)+20pts
... any of which may be master-crafted for an additional +10 pts
He may take any of the following:
- Doom Siren for +15pts
- Melta Bombs +5pts
- Combat Drugs +15pts

The Champion(s) may choose one of the following abilities:
- Daemonic Strength for +10pts
- Daemonic Mutation for +15pts

Icon:
One member of the squad may carry an Icon for +5pts
- Alternatively, one model may carry the Rapturous Standard for +40pts

Options:

The entire squad may be given the Warp Scream ability for +10pts

Any models may have Meltabombs for +5pts per model

Any models may replace their Bolters with Sonic Blasters for +5pts per model

One model may replace his bolter with one of the following:
- Blastmaster for+20pts
- Heavy Bolter for +15pts
- Missile Launcher for+20pts
- Autocannon for +20pts
- Lascannon for +35pts
- Doom Siren for +15pts
- Meltagun for +10pts
- Plasma gun for +15pts
- Flamer for +5pts

Up to 4 models may choose one of the following 4 options:
Either replace bolt pistol with plasma pistol for +15 pts

Or replace CCW with one of the following:
- Power Weapon for +15pts
- Lightning Claw for +25pts
- Power Fist for +25 pts

Or replace BP, CCW and Bolter with a pair of Lightning Claws for +20 pts per model

Or replace bolter with one of the following:

- TL bolter for+5pts
- Plasma gun for +15pts
- Meltagun for +10pts
- Flamer for +5pts
- Combi-weapon (plasma, flamer, melta) for +10pts

Transport:
The squad may have a Chaos Rhino dedicated transport (see below)

Emperor's Children Terminators:

EC Terminator: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A2 LD10 Sv2+/5+ PTS/MODEL35
- EC Terminator Champion: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A3 LD10 Sv2+/5+ PTS/MODEL+10

Unit Type: Infantry

Numbers/Squad: 3-10

Special Rules: Mark of Slaanesh (included in profile), Fearless.

Wargear:
- Terminator Armour
- Power Weapon
- Twin-Linked Bolter

Character:
Any EC Terminator may be upgraded to a Terminator Champion at +10pts
- may master-craft his PW, LC(s), PF etc. for an additional +10 pts
He may take any of the following:
- Doom Siren +15pts
- Combat Drugs +15pts (see 3.5, page 55)

The Champion(s) may choose one of the following abilities:
- Daemonic Strength for +10pts
- Daemonic Mutation for +15pts

Icon:
One member of the squad may carry an Icon for +5pts
- Alternatively, one model may carry the Rapturous Standard for +40pts

Options:

The entire squad may be given the Warp Scream ability for +10pts

- Veterans of the Long War: an EC Terminator squad may choose between either the Furious Charge or Tank Hunters Veteran Skills for +3pts/model

Any model may replace his Power Weapon with one of the following:
- Lightning Claw for +10 pts
- Power Fist for + 10 pts
- Chainfist for +15pts

Any models may replace their TL Bolter for:
- combi weapon for +5pts
- a Sonic Blaster for +2 pts

Any models may replace their TL Bolter and Power Weapon for a pair of Lightning Claws for +10 pts

One model in 5 may replace their TL Bolter with one of the following:
- Blastmaster for +25pts
- Reaper Autocannon for +25pts
- Heavy Flamer for +10pts

One further model may have a Doom Siren for +15pts

Transport:
The Squad may have a Chaos Land Raider dedicated transport (see HS section)

Emperors Children Possessed Chaos Space Marines:

EC Possessed: WS4 BS4 S5 T4 W1 I5 A2 LD10 Sv3+/5+ PTS/MODEL28
- EC Possessed Champion: WS4 BS4 S5 T4 W1 I5 A3 LD10 Sv3+/5+ PTS/MODEL+10

Unit Type: Infantry

Numbers/Squad: 5-20

Wargear:
- Power Armour
- CCW

Special Rules: Mark of Slaanesh (included in profile), Fearless, 5+ INV save, Daemonkin

Character:
One EC Possessed may be upgraded to an Aspiring Champion at +10pts-

Icon:
One member of the squad may carry an Icon for +5pts

Transport:
- The Squad may have a Chaos Rhino dedicated transport
- Vehicle may be upgraded to carry the Warp Amp Vehicle Gift +20pts

Elites: Emperor's Children Sonic Dreadnought

WS4 BS4 S6 F12 S12 R10 I5 A3

PTS COST: 80

Unit Type: Vehicle (walker)

Wargear:
- Smoke Launchers
- Searchlight
- Dreadnought CCW incorporating a TL bolter in one arm

Special rules:
- Mark of Slaanesh (included above)
- Crazed;
D6
1: Blood Rage - May not fire. 6" + D6" inches towards nearest enemy model or unit. Must Assault, if able; doubles base attacks. If already in CC, doubles base attacks.
2-5: Behaves Normally.
6: Fire Frenzy - May not move or assault. Shoots all weapons TWICE at nearest enemy model or unit. If no enemy targets visible or in range, shoots TWICE at nearest friendly instead. No ranged weapons or in CC, treat this as BR instead.

Options:
The other arm must be armed with one of the following:
- TL Autocannon for +20pts
- TL Lascannon for +35pts
- TL Heavy Bolter for +15pts
- Multi-Melta for +10pts
- Plasma Cannon for +15pts
- Blastmaster for +20pts
- TL Sonic Blasters for +10pts
- an additional Dreadnought CCW incorporating a TL bolter for +10pts. This will add +1 to the number of attacks on the profile above.

May have extra armour for +15pts

A single TL bolter may be upgraded to one of the following:
- a heavy flamer for +5pts
- a doom siren for +10pts

One close combat arm (along with its TL bolter) may be replaced with a missile launcher for no additional cost. If the Dreadnought is left with no CC arms, its attacks are reduced to 2 and it is no longer armed with a Dreadnought CCW.

The Dreadnought may take the Warp Amp Gift for +20pts.
The Dreadnought may have Daemonic Possession for +15pts
The Dreadnought may have the Aura for +10pts

ELITES: Fiends of Slaanesh:

See Codex: Chaos Daemons pages 37, 82

TROOPS:

Troops: Emperor's Children Chaos Space Marines

EC Marine : WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A1 LD9 Sv3+ PTS/MODEL20
Aspiring Champion: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A2 LD10 Sv3+ PTS/MODEL+15

Unit Type: Infantry

Numbers/Squad: 5-20

Wargear:
- Power Armour
- Bolt Pistol
- Frag, Krak Grenades
- CCW
- Bolter

Special Rules: Mark of Slaanesh (included in profile), Fearless.

Character:
One model may be upgraded to an Aspiring Champion for + 15 pts
May replace bolt pistol with a plasma pistol for +15pts
He may replace his CCW with one of the following;
- Power Weapon +15pts
- Power Fist +25pts
- Lightning Claw +15pts
- Pair of Lightning Claws (replaces BP, Bolter and CCW)+20pts
... any of which may be master-crafted for an additional +10 pts
He may take any of the following:
- Doom Siren for +15pts
- Melta Bombs +5pts
- Combat Drugs +15pts (see 3.5, page 55)

The Champion may choose one of the following abilities:
- Daemonic Strength for +10pts
- Daemonic Mutation for +15pts

Icon:
- 1 model in the Squad may be given an Icon for +5pts

Options:
The entire squad may be given the Warp Scream ability for +10pts
Veterans of the Long War: an EC squad may choose between either the Infiltrate, Furious Charge or Tank Hunters Veteran Skills for +3 pts/model
Any model may replace his bolter with a Sonic Blaster +5pts
One model may replace his bolter with one of the following:
- Plasma Gun +15 pts
- Meltagun +10pts
- Flamer for +5pts
If the squad numbers 10 or more models, a second model may replace his bolter with one of the following:
- Blastmaster for+20pts
- Missile Launcher for +10pts
- Autocannon for +10pts
- Heavy Bolter for +10pts
- Lascannon for +20pts
- Plasma Gun +15 pts
- Meltagun +10pts
- Flamer for +5pts

Transport:
- The Squad may have a Chaos Rhino dedicated transport

Emperors Children Chaos Rhino:

Rhino: BS4 F11 S11 R10 PTS/MODEL35

Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank)

Wargear:
- TL Bolter
- Smoke Launchers
- Searchlight

Fire Points: 1

Access Points: 3 - side and rear hatches.

Special Rules: Repair

Options:
- Dozer Blade for +5pts
- Extra Armour for +15pts
- Daemonic Possession for +20pts
- Warp Amp for +20pts
One of the following:
- TL Bolter for +5pts
- Sonic Blaster for +7pts
- Combi-Weapon for +10pts
- Havoc Launcher for +15pts

Transport:
- The chaos rhino can carry up to 10 models.
- Terminators, Daemons cannot be transported.

TROOPS: Daemonettes:

See Codex: Chaos Daemons, pages 33, 84


FAST ATTACK:


Emperors Children Chaos Bikers

EC Biker: WS4 BS4 S4 T4(5) W1 I5 A1 LD9 Sv3+ PTS/MODEL38
Biker Aspiring Champion: WS4 BS4 S4 T4(5) W1 I5 A2 LD10 Sv3+ PTS/MODEL+15

Unit Type: Bikes

Number/Squad: 3-10

Wargear:
- Power Armour
- Bolt Pistol
- Frag, Krak Grenades
- CCW
- Chaos Bike with TL Bolter

Special Rules: Mark of Slaanesh (included in profile), Fearless.

Icon:
- One model may be given an Icon for +5 pts

Options:
The entire squad may be given the Warp Scream ability for +10pts
- Veterans of the Long War: an EC squad may choose between either the Furious Charge or Tank Hunters Veteran Skills for +3 pts/model, or the Skilled Riders Veteran Skill for +2pts/model
Up to two models may replace their CCW with one of the following:
- Plasma gun for +15pts
- meltagun for +10pts
- flamer for +5pts

Any model may replace their bikes' TL bolters with a Sonic Blaster for +2pts

Character:
He may replace his bolt pistol with a Plasma Pistol for +15pts
- One model may be upgraded to a Biker Aspiring Champion for + 15 pts
He may replace his CCW with one of the following;
- Power Weapon +15pts
- Power Fist +25pts
- Lightning Claw +15pts
... any of which may be master-crafted for an additional +10 pts
He may take any of the following:
- Doom Siren for +15pts
- Melta Bombs +5pts
- Combat Drugs +15pts
The Champion may choose one of the following abilities:
- Daemonic Strength for +10pts
- Daemonic Mutation for +15pts

Emperors Children Assault Marines:

EC Assault Marine: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A1 LD9 Sv3+ PTS/MODEL23
EC AM Aspiring Champion: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A2 LD10 Sv3+ PTS/MODEL+15

Unit Type: Jump Infantry

Numbers/Squad: 5-20

Wargear:
- Power Armour
- Bolt Pistol
- Frag, Krak Grenades
- CCW

Special Rules: Mark of Slaanesh (included in profile), Fearless.

Character:
He may replace his bolt pistol with a plasma pistol for +15pts
- One model may be upgraded to an Aspiring Champion for + 15 pts
He may replace his CCW with one of the following;
- Power Weapon +15pts
- Power Fist +25pts
- Lightning Claw +15pts
- Pair of Lightning Claws (replaces BP and CCW)+25pts
... any of which may be master-crafted for an additional +10 pts
He may take any of the following:
- Doom Siren for +15pts
- Melta Bombs +5pts
- Combat Drugs +15pts (see 3.5, page 55)
The Champion may choose any of the following abilities:
- Daemonic Strength for +5pts
- Daemonic Mutation for +10pts

Icon:
- One model may be given an Icon for +5 pts

Options:
- The entire squad may be given the Warp Scream ability for +10pts
- Veterans of the Long War: an EC squad may choose between either the Furious Charge or Tank Hunters Veteran Skills for +3 pts/model
Up to 2 EC Assault Marines may replace their bolt pistols with plasma for +15pts/model, or take one of the following:
- Plasma gun for +15pts/model
- meltagun for +10pts/model
- flamer for +5pts/model
Hallucinogen Gas:
- the entire squad may be given plasma grenades at +2pts/model.

FAST ATTACK: Seekers of Slaanesh:

See Codex: Chaos Daemons, pages 41, 86

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Heavy Support: Emperors Children Havocs

EC Havoc : WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A1 LD9 Sv3+ PTS/MODEL20
Aspiring Champion: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A2 LD10 Sv3+ PTS/MODEL+15

Unit Type: Infantry

Numbers/Squad: 5-20

Wargear:
- Power Armour
- Bolt Pistol
- Frag, Krak Grenades
- CCW
- Bolter

Special Rules: Mark of Slaanesh (included in profile), Fearless.

Character:
He may replace his bolter with a combi-weapon for +10pts
He may replace his bolt pistol for a plasma pistol for +15pts
- One model may be upgraded to an Aspiring Champion for + 15 pts
He may replace his CCW with one of the following;
- Power Weapon +15pts
- Power Fist +25pts
- Lightning Claw +15pts
- Pair of Lightning Claws (replaces BP, Bolter and CCW)+20pts
... any of which may be master-crafted for an additional +10 pts
He may take any of the following:
- Doom Siren +15pts or Shrieker for +8pts
- Melta Bombs +5pts
- Combat Drugs +15pts
The Champion may choose any of the following abilities:
- Daemonic Strength for +5pts
- Daemonic Mutation for +10pts

Icon:
- 1 model in the Squad may be given an Icon for +5pts

Options:
- The entire squad may be given the Warp Scream ability for +10pts
- Veterans of the Long War: an EC squad may choose between either the Infiltrate, Furious Charge or Tank Hunters Veteran Skills for +3 pts/model
- Any model may replace his bolter with a Sonic Blaster +5pts
Up to 4 Havocs may either:
replace their bolter with one of the following:
- Lascannon for +35pts
- Missile Launcher for +20pts
- Autocannon for +20pts
- Heavy Bolter for +15pts
- Blastmaster for +30pts
- Plasma gun for +15pts
- Meltagun for +10pts
- Flamer for +5pts
OR:
Be equipped with a Doom Siren for +18pts

Transport:
- The Squad may have a Chaos Rhino dedicated transport (see 4.0, page 96)
- Vehicle may be upgraded to carry the Warp Amp Vehicle Gift +20pts

Heavy Support: Emperors Children Chaos Predator:

Predator: BS4 F13 S11 R10

PTS COST: 70

Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank)

Wargear:
- Turret-mounted Autocannon
- Smoke Launchers
- Searchlight

Options:
Upgrade the turret's autocannon to a:
- TL lascannon for +35pts
- Blastmaster for +20pts
Take side sponsons with:
- heavy bolters for +30pts
- lascannons for +60pts
- Blastmasters for +50pts
- TL sonic blasters for +20pts
May take any of the following:
- Dozer blade for +5pts
- Extra armour for +15pts
- Daemonic Possession for +20pts
- Parasitic Possesion for +30pts
- Warp Amp for +20pts
One of the following pintle-mounted weapons:
- TL bolter for +5pts
- Sonic Blaster for +7pts
- Combi-weapon for +10pts
- Havoc Launcher for +15pts

Emperors Children Chaos Defiler:

Defiler: WS3 BS3 S6 F12 S12 R10 I3 A3 PTS/MODEL:150

Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker)

Wargear:
- 2 dreadnought CCWs (extra Att included above)
- Battle Cannon
- Reaper Autocannon
- TL heavy flamer
- Daemonic Possession
- Smoke Launchers
- Searchlight

Special rules: Fleet

Options:
The heavy flamer can be replaced with one of the following:
- CC arm (+1 attack) for free.
- Havoc launcher for +5pts
- Doom Siren for +10pts
The reaper autocannon can be replaced with one of the following:
- TL heavy bolter for free
- CC arm (+1 attack) for free.
- Blastmaster for +10pts
- TL Lascannon for +20pts
The Defiler may be given any of the following:
- Mutated Hull for +30pts
- Parasitic Possesion for +30pts
- Warp Amp for +20pts

Emperors Children Chaos Land Raider:

EC Chaos Land Raider: BS 4 F14 S14 R14 PTS/MODEL:220

Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank)

Wargear:
- 2 TL lascannon sponsons
- 1 TL heavy bolter
- Smoke Launchers
- Searchlight

Special rules:
Assault Vehicle

Options:
- Dozer blade for +5pts
- Extra armour for +15pts
- Daemonic Possession for +20pts
- Parasitic Possesion for +30pts
- Warp Amp for +20pts
One of the following pintle-mounted weapons:
- TL bolter for +5pts
- Sonic Blaster for +7pts
- Combi-weapon for +10pts
- Havoc Launcher for +15pts

Transport:
- 10 models
- Terminators count as 2 models
- Daemons cannot be transported

Fire Points: 0

Access Points: Front access ramp and a hatch on each side of the hull.



____________________________________________________________________________________________
Emperors Children Armoury



General Vehicle Options:
Sonic Weaponry:
- May purchase the Warp Amp Vehicle Gift for +20 pts
- May replace a TL (combi) Bolter with a Sonic Blaster for +2 pts
- May replace a Heavy Flamer with a Doom Siren for +10pts
- May replace a Heavy Bolter with TL Sonic Blaster for free
- May replace an Autocannon for a Blastmaster for +20pts
- May replace a Reaper Autocannon or TL Autocannon for a Blastmaster for +10pts.
Legion Vehicle Gifts:
- Mutated Hull: +1 AV all round (max 14) +30pts
- Parasitic Possesion: At the end of the Chaos players turn any "Immobilised" or "Weapon Destroyed" results are repaired on a roll of 4+ (+30pts)

Slaanesh Psychic Powers:
She Who Thirsts
During the EC players shooting phase, the Sorceror nominates a single model within 12" and line of sight; He then compares his own LD value plus D6 to the target's LD+D6. If the sorcerors score is equal to or less than the target's, than the target is unaffected, if not, then the target suffers the difference in wounds with no save possible. (Mind War, basically) The amount of wounds caused may then be used to restore any lost wounds the sorceror may have suffered, up to the same amount as it started the battle with.
Rapture
The power may be cast during either player’s assault phase, after charge moves have been made, but before attacks are resolved. Any single enemy model, nominated by the EC player, that charges the caster or any unit he accompanies must immediately pass a standard leadership test. If they fail, then they may make NO attacks that turn, nor be attacked. The sorcerer and any unit he accompanies may attack unaffected models as normal.
Delicious Excruciation
The power may be cast in the owning player’s shooting phase instead of firing another weapon. Nominate a single enemy IC or unit with at least one model within 12 inches and line of sight. That unit must pass a standard leadership test, or immediately take a toughness test (roll equal to or less than it's T on a D6 - 6 is always a fail) or suffer D3 wounds, resolved as shooting for the purposes of casualty removal.
Lash of Submission
(see codex 4.0)
Others - see 4.0

Gifts of Slaanesh:
Warp Scream
Enemy within 12" of a model with this ability are at -1 to their LD value, in BTB contact at -2 to their LD.
Note that this is not cumulative with other Warp Scream or Warp Amp models; apply the highest modifier only. For example:
An enemy unit is within 12" of a warp scream model (-1), in BTB with another (-2) and has been tank-shocked by a Warp Amp tank (-3)
The highest modifier, obviously from the tank, would then be applied. The other, lower modifiers being ignored in this instance.
Beam of slaanesh
Used instead of shooting during the EC turn. In its next turn, a single non-vehicle enemy unit within 36" counts as having moved for the purposes of firing their weapons.
Taste Our Pleasures
In the assault phase, enemy models with a LD value engaged in CC with a model bearing this ability, or a unit he is part of or has joined must pass a leadership test following any modifiers they might be subject to. If they fail then they will immediately become Fearless (if they aren't already) for the remainder of the phase, and will become subject to the rules for "No Retreat", should they lose the combat.
Titillating Visions
Used instead of shooting. A single non-vehicle enemy unit within 36" becomes Slow and Purposeful for the duration of its following turn.
Fuelled By Pain
For every CC attack that wounds the champion, but is stopped by his save, he may make an additional attack after all other attacks (including his own) are made, but before combat results are determined.
Touch of Slaanesh
Enemy in btb at -1 WS
Psychic Cacophony
The champion forces any enemy psykers on the battlefield to take their tests on 3D6; picking the highest.
Siren
In the enemy players assault phase, enemy seeking to charge the champion must first take a LD test in order to do so. If they fail, they are pinned. This power has no effect if the champion has joined, or is part of, a unit. - 10pts

Slaanesh Daemon Weapons:
Blissgiver
A power weapon which causes Instant Death on any unsaved wounds
Castigator
The castigator is a 1-handed power weapon that may be used to full effect in CC even if the model wielding it is not in base contact but is within 2" of of enemy in CC with the unit he is with. A unit in CC with the bearer of the Castigator that loses 1 or more models to it that turn will be at -1 LD if they lose the combat and have to take a Morale check.
Needle of Desire
2-handed. Never ignores armour saves, does ignore INV saves. Always wounds on a 2+. Unsaved wounds = D3 wounds
Sceptre of Degradation
May not be used in combination with other CCWs. Instead of wounding an enemy, roll on the chart below whenever the champion scores a hit on an enemy model in btb (no effect on vehicles:
1 - WS, T reduced by 1 point for the remainder of the battle
2 - I, LD reduced by 1 point for the remainder of the battle
3 - S, W reduced by 1 point for the remainder of the battle
4 - BS, A reduced by 1 point for the remainder of the battle
5 - A, W reduced by 1 point for the remainder of the battle
6 - W reduced by D3 points for the remainder of the battle
Should any of the enemies characteristics reach 0, remove the model as a casualty.

Slaanesh Wargear:
Combat Drugs
Choose up to 3 of the below powers, which last for the duration of the present Assault phase; for each power chosen, roll a D6. If a double is rolled, suffer instant wound, no saves. If triple is rolled, model is killed, no saves. Note that the model cannot be harmed in this way if only one power is chosen.
- +1 WS
- +1 Strength
- +1 Attack
- The model ignores the 1st unsaved wound taken in this Assault phase as long as it does not inflict Instant Death.
- If charging through difficult terrain, the model may roll an additional dice to determine how far it moves
Hallucinogen Gas
Enemy who have lost a CC with EC and are forced to fall back, will test for Sweeping Advance at -1 Initiative.
Steed of Slaanesh
The model gains +1 attack and the ability to move as cavalry. Cannot be combined with daemonic mutation and/or daemonic speed.
Rapturous Standard - (Chosen/Terminator units only)
Counts as an Icon. Once per game, in either players Shooting Phase, its special power may be invoked; any model within 6" of the bearer gains the Feel No Pain ability for the remainder of the turn.

Sonic Weaponry:


Blastmaster - 40/50pts
Single Frequency - R: 48" STR:8 AP:3 S: Heavy 1 Blast Pinning
Varied Frequency - R: 36" STR:5 AP:4 S: Assault 2 Pinning

Doom Siren - 15pts
R: Template STR:5 AP:3 Assault 1, no cover save

Sonic Blaster - free/2/5/7pts
R: 24" STR:4 AP:5 S: Assault 2 or Heavy 3

Warp Amp - 20pts
Enemy within 12" of the vehicle are at -1LD, at -2LD within 6" or at -3 LD in base contact.


_____________________________________________


Contributors:
EC.Net: Sakura, Lord Dumah, Cenobite, holydiver, gaoCU, Arx
Dakka: JohnHwangDD, Fester, Wehrkind
B&C: Dammeron, Bannus ( :rolleyes: ), Nightstalker, Cale

Thanks to you all .....

Here is a sample list I put together this evening; it's probably <DELETED BY THE INQUISITION> choice-wise, but it's only an example .....

:HQ:

1: Keeper of Secrets (170), Warptime (free), Lash of Submission (20) - 190pts


:Elite:

1: EC Terminators

5 terminators (175), AC (10) with Lightning Claws (10), Doom Siren (15). 3 Sonic Blasters (15), 1 combi-weapon (5), Icon (5) - 235pts

2: Sonic Dreadnought

EC Dread (80) with Plasma Cannon (15) and Doom Siren (10) - 105pts


:Troops:

1: 6 Daemonettes - 90pts

2: 6 Daemonettes - 90pts

3: Noise Marines

6 EC marines (120), 5 Sonic Blasters (25), Blastmaster (50), AC (15) with Power Weapon (15), Icon (5) - 205pts

4: Noise Marines

6 EC marines (120), 5 Sonic Blasters (25), Blastmaster (50), AC (15) with Power Weapon (15), Icon (5) - 205pts


:FA:

1: Daemonettes on Steeds
5 mounted Daemonettes - 140pts


:HS:

1: NM Havocs
6 EC Havocs (120), AC (15), Lascannon (35), Missile Launcher (20), Blastmaster (50) - 240pts


TOTAL: 1500pts

So, straight off, you'll probably notice that blastmasters are increasing the units cost so much that they will be unlikely to be fielded.

Again, I advocate abandoning AP3 and its hefty price tag and reinstating AP4 and hence reducing the BM's cost to 20 pts.

Nothing to say?

If anybody still cares, I have now added an option of taking "light" sonic weaponry in lieu of 4.0's overcosted/overpowered stuff. This "light" weaponry simply utilises the profiles given for BMs/DSs in 3.5.

Credf for this goes to Sakura on EC.net.

Regards ....

IMO, you're going about this the "wrong" way for 5th Edition.

Sacred Number should be mandated for Cult units, and it should NOT give anything for "free" to non-Cult units.

The primary advantage of a Emperor's Children Codex is that it combines Cult Marines with full-power Daemons (of Tzeentch). You can have Cult Terminators. You have the ability to take NM Havocs with multiple Blastmasters. You can take Warp Amps on your vehicles. These are things that are not otherwise possible.

So:

HQ SCs
- Lucius the Eternal
- M'Shen

HQ
- Chaos Lord of Slaanesh
- Sorceror of Slaanesh
- Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
- Greater Daemon of Slaanesh (Keeper of Secrets)

Elite
- 3 or 6 Noise Marine Terminators
- MoS Chosen
- MoS Possessed
- MoS Spawn
- Dreadnought (Noise option)

Troops
- 6 Noise Marines
- 6 Daemonettes of Slaanesh
- MoS Chaos Marines

Fast
- 6 Fiends of Slaanesh
- 6 mounted Daemonettes of Slaanesh
- MoS Raptors
- MoS Bikers


Heavy
- 6 Noise Marine Havocs (Blastmasters)
- MoS Havocs (NO Blastmaster)
- Defiler (Noise option)
- Vindicator
- Predator (Noise option)
- Land Raider (Noise option)

IMO, you're going about this the "wrong" way for 5th Edition.

I haven't been following the rumours on this one.

Sacred Number should be mandated for Cult units, and it should NOT give anything for "free" to non-Cult units.

I disagree; the option should be given, and it should give a clear benefit - but it shouldn't be mandatory.

Which "non-cult units" do you mean? Spawn, vehicles?

You have the ability to take NM Havocs with multiple Blastmasters.

Indeed. Each of which cost 50 pts; if not more since they're going on Havocs who generally should pay more for their weapons.

This is why I suggested the reintroduction of lower-AP sonic weapons; it reduces prices and doesn't result in no-one ever taking blastmasters.

So:

HQ SCs
- Lucius the Eternal
- M'Shen

HQ
- Chaos Lord of Slaanesh
- Sorceror of Slaanesh
- Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
- Greater Daemon of Slaanesh (Keeper of Secrets)

Elite
- 3 or 6 Noise Marine Terminators
- MoS Chosen
- MoS Possessed
- MoS Spawn
- Dreadnought (Noise option)

Troops
- 6 Noise Marines
- 6 Daemonettes of Slaanesh
- MoS Chaos Marines

Fast
- 6 Fiends of Slaanesh
- 6 mounted Daemonettes of Slaanesh
- MoS Raptors
- MoS Bikers


Heavy
- 6 Noise Marine Havocs (Blastmasters)
- MoS Havocs (NO Blastmaster)
- Defiler (Noise option)
- Vindicator
- Predator (Noise option)
- Land Raider (Noise option)

Yup.

That's pretty much what I was hoping the list would look like when it is finished. Though, isn't M'Shen the assassin who killed Curze? What's she doing above? Wouldn't Eidolon be a better SC?

Aren't Fiends just Slaanesh Spawn? We can differentiate the two, though. Say Fiends are daemons with the profile and movement of Chaos Hounds with the MoS. Good enough?

My stumbling block is the HQ choices for lords/princes. It is felt that Gifts need to be reincluded, in limited form. Below are my suggested rules/prices (higher for DP, lower for Lord;

Daemonic Essence - 15/10 pts
- +1 Wound
Daemonic Flight - 20 pts
- Model moves as jump infantry. May not be combined with Infiltrate, Daemonic Speed, bike, steed or Terminator Armour.
Daemonic Mutation - 15/10 pts
- +1 attack
Daemonic Resilience - 10 pts
- +1 Toughness
Daemonic Speed - 15/10 pts
- Counts as Cavalry. May not be combined with Infiltrate, Wings/jump pack, bike, steed or Terminator Armour.
Daemonic Strength - 10/5 pts
- +1 Strength

.... limiting the lord to a max of 2-3 powers, but reducing their cost for him would seem to even things out.

I'll get to editing in the rest of the unit options ....
EDIT: Done, except for the HQ choices, spawn and fiends.

apaosha wrote:

IMO, you're going about this the "wrong" way for 5th Edition.

I haven't been following the rumours on this one.

An EC book should feel more like the DA / CSM revamp than the old CSM book.

Sacred Number should be mandated for Cult units, and it should NOT give anything for "free" to non-Cult units.

I disagree; the option should be given, and it should give a clear benefit - but it shouldn't be mandatory.

Yes, it should. If Loyalist SM are required to be 5 /10 strong to receive the full benefits of their patron God (the Emperor), then the devoted followers of Slannesh should be forced to conform to their Sacred Number.

Which "non-cult units" do you mean? Spawn, vehicles?

Yes, along with CSM.

You have the ability to take NM Havocs with multiple Blastmasters.

Indeed. Each of which cost 50 pts; if not more since they're going on Havocs who generally should pay more for their weapons.

This is why I suggested the reintroduction of lower-AP sonic weapons; it reduces prices and doesn't result in no-one ever taking blastmasters.

An EC book should feel more like the DA / CSM revamp than the old CSM book.

True, but NMs in 4.0 don't follow weapon restrictions, so this would seem to suggest that EC Marines shouldn't either. For this reason, the only HW EC CSMs can have is the Pulse Amp (3.5 Blastmaster)

Yes, it should. If Loyalist SM are required to be 5 /10 strong to receive the full benefits of their patron God (the Emperor), then the devoted followers of Slannesh should be forced to conform to their Sacred Number.

These benefits being hevy/special weapon restrictions?

Hows about this (coontributed to my more general c:csm revision thread by malisteen on Warseer);

1 marine may take a heavy OR a special - the heavies are at the more expensive havocs price, however.
If squad numbers 10 models or more, an additional special may be taken.

I think this quite neatly solves the whole min-maxing problem, while ensuring that a whole 10-man squads fire potential is not wasted whenever you want to fire their heavy ....

But with regard to squad sizes for EC, you'll notice that Chaos restrictions are not identical to DA, in that you can take 5-20 models per squad, generally.

I don't own the DA codex, though I've played it; is the restriction "5 TO 10" models per unit or "5 OR 10?"

In either case, though I agree that this WIP codex needs to be balanced against current, official publication, I don't see how squad size restrictions relate to divine favour, or lack thereof. For example, forcing somebody to take a 6-man CC squad is only going to discourage the use of the option, through making it cr*p.

Yes, along with CSM

Besides spawn and vehicles, there are no non-slaanesh-cult units in this list, including obliterators, zerks, PMs, TSs etc.

The fact that EC can take S8 AP3 weapon on a 6-man squad is worth it. For NM Havocs, maybe they're only 45 pts. But a barrage of S8 AP3 firepower is still good. Arguably better than Plasma Cannons.

Exactly. I play EC (you may have guessed) and even I think this is needlessly powerful, and as a result needlesly overpriced. Between Inferno bolts, blastmasters and doom sirens, there is far too much AP3 being thrown about by chaos.

So, to remedy this, instead of changing the current BM profile to the old one, I've restricted it's application to vehicles/havocs/termies and invented the PA, which simply uses the AP4 single frequency profile from the 3.5 Blastmaster. This avoids over-pricing and should, I hope, also avoid confusion.

There are the unridden boobworms and the ridden boobworms, along with the MoS Spawn. I don't recall whether things have special names beyond the Daemonette and KoS.

Fiend of Slaanesh: http://www.farseertyross.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Images/Artwork/Img_Fiend.jpg (magnify to see clearer)

An ancient 2nd edition model, but it still looks really cool to me ....

I dunno. A couple optional Slaanesh-specific gifts as options for the Chaos Lord & Sorceror would be appropriate. Fold a couple gifts into the DPoS to make it different.

Pretty much my thoughts, also.

Some names from 3.5:

Fuelled By Pain
Touch of Slaanesh
She Who Thirsts
Warp Scream
Allure of Slaanesh
Aura of Acquiescence
plus DWs;
Needle of Desire
Lash of Torment (now exclusive to Lucius, so discount this - instead maybe use 3.5 rules under the name of "Castigator")

To which I'd like to add something called the "Sceptre of Degradation", my own invention, though no rules as yet ....

Any inspiration strike you while reading 'em?

apaosha wrote:True, but NMs in 4.0 don't follow weapon restrictions, so this would seem to suggest that EC Marines shouldn't either.

They also pay 20pts per model for this privilege against a 15-pt basic CSM.

If Loyalist SM are required to be 5 /10 strong to receive the full benefits of their patron God (the Emperor), then the devoted followers of Slannesh should be forced to conform to their Sacred Number.

These benefits being hevy/special weapon restrictions?

The benefit being ATSKNF.

1 marine may take a heavy OR a special - the heavies are at the more expensive havocs price, however.
If squad numbers 10 models or more, an additional special may be taken.

All this does is restore 5-man Heavies.

But with regard to squad sizes for EC, you'll notice that Chaos restrictions are not identical to DA, in that you can take 5-20 models per squad, generally.

CSM is much less structured, but it's still 10+ men for the Heavy or 2nd Special.

They also pay 20pts per model for this privilege against a 15-pt basic CSM.

They pay the 5pts for having inherent MoS and Fearless; they are identical to normal marines, otherwise. Sonic Weapons are upgrades - extra. If you want to include their BM in that; fine.

The new CSM clearly distinguishes between "Cult" Noise Marines (Fearless, +1I, access to noise weapons) and "Marked" Mark of Slaanesh CSM (normal Ld, +1I, no access to noise weapons). C: EC would have NM and MoS CSM.

And what would be the difference between a hth EC unit and a NM EC unit, besides the lack of sonic guns? Both would need MoS and fearless inherent, not as abilities conferred by an icon: the EC are devoted slaves to their god - they don't lose their abilities if someone drops the pole ....

If you want hth units, I could put together a unit option that had no bolters, short-ranged weapon options and an expanded AC CC option list .....

I don't see the problem. EC don't have access to Inferno Bolts, and they pay 40+ pts for a Blastmaster. It's OK for EC to have broad access to Blastmasters in their NM units. It's not cheap, and it's not overpowered.

str8 ap3 templates aren't overpowered?

Consider a 6-NM Havoc unit (120 pts base) with 4 BM (160 to 200 pts for the guns). That's 280 to 320 pts for 6 guys! Standard CSM Terminators are only 30 pts, and CSM Land Raiders are only 220 pts. So for those kinds of points, they had better be good.

You'd pay around 300pts for a 6-man squad? Alright, then; I'll put the option in, if you feel it's necessary. Pulse Amp will stay as the cheaper alternative, however ....

apaosha wrote:And what would be the difference between a hth EC unit and a NM EC unit, besides the lack of sonic guns? Both would need MoS and fearless inherent, not as abilities conferred by an icon: the EC are devoted slaves to their god - they don't lose their abilities if someone drops the pole ....

Not all EC are Noise Marines. "Codex: Emperor's Children" is really Codex: Slanneshi Marines & Daemons & Vehicles. Codex: 4 flavors of Noise Marines would be too limited and boring.

str8 ap3 templates aren't overpowered?

Not at 40+ pts each, they aren't.

You'd pay around 300pts for a 6-man squad? Alright, then; I'll put the option in, if you feel it's necessary.

It's necessary.

Pulse Amp will stay as the cheaper alternative, however ....

This, necessarily, should be removed to force the issue. Slaanesh has Doom Siren as the Special Weapon, available to Characters; Sonic Blaster as the Basic Weapon; and Blastmaster as a Heavy Weapon. Because NM have a full suite of weapons, they don't need or deserve another weapon.

Meh. Why bother with this. We have the old book [great, awesome, amazing, wow, omg fun] and the new book [boring, weak, lame, flavorless, with a cool psychic power!]

Choose which you want to play with and run with it. It's neat, but why try to make a new in-between codex? It wouldn't be received any better [and likely considerably worse] than saying you were running the old codex instead of the new.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Not all EC are Noise Marines. "Codex: Emperor's Children" is really Codex: Slanneshi Marines & Daemons & Vehicles. Codex: 4 flavors of Noise Marines would be too limited and boring.

I get you, but the only real difference between this unit and NMs as they stand now would be lack of fearlessness and sonics. Assuming that MoS for regular marines is 2pts/model this would mean 17pt regular EC marines with inherent MoS.

Do you think this is a difference great enough to warrant the inclusion of an entirely different unit?

Another thing: since I am solely portraying Legion marines here, I want something to truly set them apart from C:Chaos Renegades - Fearlessness. The entire army is fearless and will not run away, portraying 10K vets, or newer recruits trained to levels above and beyond the reach of ordinary space marines, loyalist or traitor. Veteran Skills also reflect this. Therefore, making one unit in the army un-fearless would detract from this, and then you're just left with non-access to sonics, which is a non-issue anyway, because you can just decide to not give them to your guys if you so wish.

Sorry, but if what you want is to include basic CSMs, a la C: Renegades, whose only association with Slaanesh is to carry a banner-pole around, I'm afraid I'm going to have to let you down .....

If you like, I can edit back in the heavy/special restrictions and give them access to lascannons, heavy bolters etc.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Not at 40+ pts each, they aren't.

Yeah, alright, but you have to ask yourself, how is your opponent going to feel when he knows he's going to face some tricked out uber-unit that can, on average, wipe out whole squads of his space marines every turn. He's going to make the havocs his primary target each turn and you'll soon find that your games will get predictable, boring and hence no fun to play. It's like Siren under 3.5; too effective and boring. There needs to be less powerful heavy sonics; I would prefer blastmasters as they are now to be 0-1 per unit, my pulse amps filling out the other slots, but that's just me ....

JohnHwangDD wrote:This, necessarily, should be removed to force the issue. Slaanesh has Doom Siren as the Special Weapon, available to Characters; Sonic Blaster as the Basic Weapon; and Blastmaster as a Heavy Weapon. Because NM have a full suite of weapons, they don't need or deserve another weapon.

Well, PA aside, it's always been felt that NMs needed more sonic variety; there's no pistol version, for starters. Sonic Walkman(TM) FTW!

I reckon they do need another weapon. I think the more variety and craziness chaos has, the better. But the reason, the only real reason, that I even came up with the idea, was as I pointed out above: namely the fact that multiple blastmasters crowd the list points-wise and prevent an already small army body-wise from fielding a realistic amount of men. 4 Havoc BMs, for example cost the same as 10 regular Emperors Children, as I have costed them. There has to be some give there, and the PA is the compromise.

Giving BM ap3 was a stupid move by GW. It stored up a whole load of sh*t for any prospective EC list ....

Spellbound wrote:Meh. Why bother with this. We have the old book [great, awesome, amazing, wow, omg fun] and the new book [boring, weak, lame, flavorless, with a cool psychic power!]

I care because I'm a fan of EC and I want to see them done justice under 5th ed. As for your summation of 3.5 vs. 4.0, I couldn't agree more. Though f*cked in many respects, 3.5 more accurately portrayed the Legions than Codex: Renegades could ever aspire to ...

I see no reason why you couldn't still use it as Codex: Legions, if you like.

Spellbound wrote:Choose which you want to play with and run with it. It's neat, but why try to make a new in-between codex? It wouldn't be received any better [and likely considerably worse] than saying you were running the old codex instead of the new.

I have this going on ec.net, b&c as well as here. I'd have it on warseer if I wasn't banned, but that's another story, and it is early ....

Perhaps my activities on this will grab the attention of some GW goon who will incorporate some/any/all of it into the theoretical legion codex that's supposed to be coming. Only time will tell ....

EDIT: Added in Zarakynel as a SC HQ choice, slightly modified for clarity.

FWIW, I think I'm done here. You've gotten my comments about what I think the 5th Edition Codex: Slaanesh will look like. We disagree on a few points, and I don't think it's worth arguing over.

It'll be interesting to see which approach GW takes when they finally get around to doing the Codex for Slaanesh (after Khorne, then Nurgle).

The only thing that makes me sad is a T8 greater daemon. Still, it isn't the T9 monstrosity of Nurgle FW put out...

I do congratulate you on what looks like a fun codex, and admire your dedication to your force! (Vile, traitorous heretics though they are.)

JohnHwangDD wrote:FWIW, I think I'm done here. You've gotten my comments about what I think the 5th Edition Codex: Slaanesh will look like. We disagree on a few points, and I don't think it's worth arguing over.

It'll be interesting to see which approach GW takes when they finally get around to doing the Codex for Slaanesh (after Khorne, then Nurgle).

Fair enough. Thanks for your contributions.

Wehrkind wrote:The only thing that makes me sad is a T8 greater daemon. Still, it isn't the T9 monstrosity of Nurgle FW put out...

I do congratulate you on what looks like a fun codex, and admire your dedication to your force! (Vile, traitorous heretics though they are.)

Doomrider is now in; as a special character.

He now counts as a jetbike!

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=123503

Some rewording of the B&C powers (I really need to PM Dammeron if I don't want to be sued ...);

Taste Our Pleasures:

- This power may be cast in the owning player’s shooting phase instead of firing another weapon. Nominate an enemy model in BTB contact with the sorcerer. This model must pass a standard leadership test. If it fails then it will immediately become Fearless for the remainder of the phase, but any CC attacks made against it will never require worse than a 2+ to wound.

Rapture:

- The power may be cast during either player’s assault phase, after charge moves have been made, but before attacks are resolved. Any single enemy model, nominated by the EC player, that charges the caster or any unit he accompanies must immediately pass a standard leadership test. If they fail, then they may make NO attacks that turn, nor be attacked. The sorcerer and any unit he accompanies may attack unaffected models as normal.

Delicious Excruciation:

- The power may be cast in the owning player’s shooting phase instead of firing another weapon. Nominate a single enemy IC or unit with at least one model within 12 inches and line of sight. That unit must pass a standard leadership test, or immediately take a toughness test (roll equal to or less than it's T on a D6 - 6 is always a fail) or suffer D3 wounds, resolved as shooting for the purposes of casualty removal.

... I think this is better.

More:

Fuelled By Pain: for every CC attack that wounds the champion, but is stopped by his save, he may make an additional attack after all other attacks (including his own) are made, but before combat results are determined. 15-20pts
Touch of Slaanesh: enemy in btb at -1 WS - 10pts
She Who Thirsts: During the EC players shooting phase, the Sorceror nominates a single model within 12" and line of sight; He then compares his own LD value plus D6 to the target's LD+D6. If the sorcerors score is equal to or less than the target's, than the target is unaffected, if not, then the target suffers the difference in wounds with no save possible. (Mind War, basically) The amount of wounds caused may then be used to restore any lost wounds the sorceror may have suffered, up to the same amount as it started the battle with. 30-40pts, I'd say.
Warp Scream: The champion forces any enemy psykers to re-roll any psychic tests that they initially pass; they may never be forced to re-roll more than once. Enemy psykers that normally auto-pass their psychic tests (warlocks, for example) lose this ability while the champion is on the battlefield. 15pts
Allure of Slaanesh: In the enemy players assault phase, enemy seeking to charge the champion must first take a LD test in order to do so. If they fail, they are pinned. This power has no effect if the champion has joined, or is part of, a unit. - 10pts
Aura of Acquiescence: Enemy in CC with the champion are fearless, and hence will not be required to take a morale check if they lose the combat. - 5pts

Daemon Weapons:
(These all follow the general DW rules given in 4.0, in addition to the rules below. Where rules conflict, treat the weapons description as over-riding the general DW rules)
Blissgiver: power weapon which causes instant death on any unsaved wounds
Castigator: the castigator is a 1-handed power weapon that may be used to full ecceft in CC even if the model wielding it is not in base contact but is within 2" of of enemy in CC with the unit he is with. A unit in CC with the bearer of the Castigator that loses 1 or more models to it that turn will be at -1 LD if they lose the combat and have to take a Morale check.
Needle of Desire: 2-handed. Never ignores armour saves, does ignore INV saves. Always wounds on a 2+. Unsaved wounds = D3 wounds
Sceptre of Degradation: May not be used in combination with other CCWs. Instead of wounding an enemy, roll on the chart below whenever the champion scores a hit on an enemy model in btb (no effect on vehicles:
1 - WS, T reduced by 1 point for the remainder of the battle
2 - I, LD reduced by 1 point for the remainder of the battle
3 - S, W reduced by 1 point for the remainder of the battle
4 - BS, A reduced by 1 point for the remainder of the battle
5 - A, W reduced by 1 point for the remainder of the battle
6 - W reduced by D3 points for the remainder of the battle
Should any of the enemies characteristics reach 0, remove the model as a casualty.
Points for this? I haven't a clue ...

Thoughts on this?

I may be wrong here but what this list looks like is a merger between the old codex and the new giving wider selections of gear and bringing back parts that have intentionally been removed.

Additionally you seem to be lowballing prices for upgrades.

Ex: chosen CSM squad, elite choise:
base cost 18, your cost 23.
Benefits:
Altered number/squad from 5-10 to 4-20.
mark of slaanesh.
choise between Infiltrate, Furious charge or tank hunter.
The unit gets a free asp upgrade if a multiple of 6 models.
The asp may in addition to 4 troopers get CCW upgrade, get shriekers (not sure what this is), get combat drugs, daemonic strength and daemonic mutation.
They may all replace their bolters for sonic blasters.
One model may get a blastmaster, Pulse amp or shrieker.
Upp to for models may get cheap lightning claws (10pts rather than 20), or shriekers.

Edit:
missed one here, you can master craft the chosen asps CC weapons upgrades.

thus in those 5 points you have increased the points value you include a free asp (10pts), free icon of slaanesh (20pts) and reduced lightningclaw cost (10pts per model, max 40). Lets say that you buy 12 models and get all 4 claws... you would actually save 0.8333 points per model as compared to the basic chosen CSM in the codex despite the increased points cost.

To be honest only allowing the option between infiltrate furious charge and tank hunter is worth atleast 2 pts.

As far as I can tell this is like a thread that runs right through your entire list.
Old codex fun stuff you want back are put back in, prices are shaved, free asps given...

Another good example, you are actually allowing a possessed asp get powerweapon/powerfist.

Sadly this often happens when you create rules for yourselfI have seen it time and time again and have myself fallen into the trap more than once.

If the armylists arent balanced then there is no point playing the game.

This list sadly simply feels like a big red "I win" button list.

Upp to for models may get cheap lightning claws (10pts rather than 20), or shriekers.

Typo with the LCs. Fixed.
Shriekers are basically flamers that allow the bearer to ignore enemies cover benefits in CC. The old DS rules. Cheap alternative, as I said to johnhwang.

thus in those 5 points you have increased the points value you include a free asp (10pts), free icon of slaanesh (20pts) and reduced lightningclaw cost (10pts per model, max 40). Lets say that you buy 12 models and get all 4 claws... you would actually save 0.8333 points per model as compared to the basic chosen CSM in the codex despite the increased points cost.

Wrong. The MoS is inherent in every model in this list, just about; therefore not conferred by an icon. These are purchaed separately for 5pts.

To be honest only allowing the option between infiltrate furious charge and tank hunter is worth atleast 2 pts.

So I should make them 25pts each??

As far as I can tell this is like a thread that runs right through your entire list.
Old codex fun stuff you want back are put back in, prices are shaved, free asps given...

There is a difference between legion marines and renegade marines. vet skills, fearless, access to more varied weaponry/upgrades reflects this.

If you like, I can increase individual models costs by 1-2 points or so to account for the small, elite nature of the force.

Another good example, you are actually allowing a possessed asp get powerweapon/powerfist.

Why do you think they disallowed this in C: Renegades?

This list sadly simply feels like a big red "I win" button list.

Yeah, right.

I like the special Psychic powers and daemon weapons. Taste Our Pleasures calls out for the Huron Blackheart model so hard. "Who wants candy?"

I don't know how much the Blissgiver should cost, but probably a lot. Power weapon that causes force weapon instant death on every hit, no psychic check seems like it should be ~60 points, maybe limited to 1 per army. I might be over thinking that though. Maybe allow a Ld check on the affected model(s) to see if they can resist instant death? Maybe a Ld check on 3 dice.

Funny, my Needle of Desire is also two handed. Nailed it!

I might consider boosting the prices up 1-2 points, but I don't know that it is as overpowered as people think. Old school CSM were pretty pumped though, so I don't think it is out of the question. There is a fine line between "Old Chaos Broken" and "Pretty nicely balanced". I think not having Obliterators helps, though it might also work to pull some of the tank options, maybe the Vindicator. That doesn't strike me as being a super Slaaneshi type vehicle.

Still, I like it!

apaosha wrote:

Upp to for models may get cheap lightning claws (10pts rather than 20), or shriekers.

Typo with the LCs. Fixed.
Shriekers are basically flamers that allow the bearer to ignore enemies cover benefits in CC. The old DS rules. Cheap alternative, as I said to johnhwang.

Fair enough, typos happens to us all.

On the shrieker, how many shriekers do you have to have in a unit to ignore a units cover benefits?

As is cover allowes the player in cover to strike first, if a single shrieker negates this completelly for the whole unit then this is a very powerfull weapon, especially for slaanesh with its +1 I. I meen 8 points seems low.

They seem to work like plasma grenades but as you at most can have 6 in a unit of potentially 20 I very much doubt this weapon only boosts the model using it like grenades do. Additionally I cant find a points cost for the plasma grenades as I can find no eldar unit that has the option to buy them, they are however better than frag grenades and thus should cost at the very least as much as them ie minimum 1pt per model.

And please, no if one has frags then all benefit BS, I play orks and never expected my whole unit to benefit from potential frag stikkbombs on the nob under the old codex.

Also, is the shrieker a one or two handed weapon?

fester wrote:...free icon of slaanesh (20pts)...

Wrong. The MoS is inherent in every model in this list, just about; therefore not conferred by an icon. These are purchaed separately for 5pts.

So what you are saying is that every chosen should get the mark for free?
I used the icon as a points reference as the icon convays the exact same benefits to the unit as marking all the models would.
Marked model -> +1 I to the model.
Icon carried by unit -> +1 I to each model in the unit.

Admitedly there is a secondary effect with the summoning and all but you cant give all the models +1 I for free but then if all the individual models are marked then the icon bearer can not be sneakilly killed.

To be honest only allowing the option between infiltrate furious charge and tank hunter is worth atleast 2 pts.

So I should make them 25pts each??

Like I said earlier, a common chosen in the new chaos codex comes at 18 points, this meens you pay only 5 points more for the bonuses I listed above, I would say they are cheap.
25pts, no probably above that to be balanced.

There is a difference between legion marines and renegade marines. vet skills, fearless, access to more varied weaponry/upgrades reflects this.

True.

This however is no reason to alter the balance of the game in favor of this or that army.

In a perfect world a "vanilla" chaos codex army and a slaanesh codex army should be perfectly balanced, the deciding factor on who should win is the player. When the codex is altered however slightly balance shifts so that every bonus should be balanced out by a penalty. This is why GW takes such time to playtest their codexes... sadly due to their "honor gaming" style they still more often than not fail but the concept is good.

When reading this list I see alot of advantages, better and wider choise ranges, new and cool weapons... I however se very few drawbacks and if there are few if any ingame drawbacks then the points values must be upped accordingly, somthing I sadly do not see here ither.

This is not as extreme as a hommade Khornate WHFB DP I have read about, he was a monster with 3 or 4 really powerfull magical items, he had a terrifying Khornate sword that could all but instakill all it wounded, it was pointwise very cheap as any model wielding it was completely barred from casting magic, the suit of armour denied the model from using any shooting attacks and the two last items ither barred the model from magic or ranged, all the items were player designed and unique to the DP and all were very cheap because of their serious downsides.

The fact that a Khorne warrior in WHFB were denied magic and ranged from start aparently affected the situation not at all.

In short, you have to balance the list, give the army flaws to bring down the points costs, drop the shrieker and allow the unit to upgrade their frag grenades to halucenogen gas grenades that you equip the entire unit with for say 2pts per model, they could work just like plasma grenades (the fumes particles are small/sinister enough to bypass any airclencing filters).

The Necrons, poorly designed codex as it is, is a perfect example. Necrons are dirt cheap for what you get but the drawback is that they phase out, dump the phase out rule and I expect a common necron warrior would be priced well above 25 pts/model.

If you like, I can increase individual models costs by 1-2 points or so to account for the small, elite nature of the force.

I dont want you to increase the points values, I want you to create a list with slaaneshi feel with strengths and weaknesses that can be used to the advantage or disadvantage of ither player. An "I can do anything army" that is cheap is not balanced and this sadly is what slaanesh was in the old codex and what I see mirrored here.

Another good example, you are actually allowing a possessed asp get powerweapon/powerfist.

Why do you think they disallowed this in C: Renegades?

I think they removed it as posessed marines have so deformed limbs that they can no longer hold weapons, their hands and arms have burst their gloves and forarm guards and are now the weapons.
Simply looking at the models tell me this.

Now get me right, going down the list you have given a better weapon selections to each unit type, added new weapons, brought back very powerfull daemonic powers, you have even provided the list with a stripped down version of the blastmaster (oddly enough you have removed the doom siren option for troops but this is probably another typo).

Im sorry but I just dont feel like the list you have is balanced, I think in the hands of a good player the list will simply prove too powerfull.

Sadly I have the feeling you do not live in Luleå Sweden, if you did I would gladly meet you and play a few games with and against your list to see if I am correct, I would love to hear feedback from battles with them but my advice if you intend to keep them as they are is to play ONLY against them the first coupple of games, playing against somthing you are better equipped to see if they have balance issues as if you play them then its your superior tactics that claims the victory, not the power of the army

fester wrote:On the shrieker, how many shriekers do you have to have in a unit to ignore a units cover benefits?

As is cover allowes the player in cover to strike first, if a single shrieker negates this completelly for the whole unit then this is a very powerfull weapon, especially for slaanesh with its +1 I. I meen 8 points seems low.

They seem to work like plasma grenades but as you at most can have 6 in a unit of potentially 20 I very much doubt this weapon only boosts the model using it like grenades do. Additionally I cant find a points cost for the plasma grenades as I can find no eldar unit that has the option to buy them, they are however better than frag grenades and thus should cost at the very least as much as them ie minimum 1pt per model.

And please, no if one has frags then all benefit BS, I play orks and never expected my whole unit to benefit from potential frag stikkbombs on the nob under the old codex.

Also, is the shrieker a one or two handed weapon?

The shrieker replaces the doom siren in this list. On ec.net, the user Sakura put forward the idea that their should be "heavy" and "light" sonic weaponry. The "heavy" being the sonics under present publication, and the light being the reinstated old.
Purely as a cheaper alternative to having to pay 200pts for a havoc units weapons. That sort of thing.
Now; the pulse amp is the 3.5 (last edition) chaos codex blastmaster; the only difference to 4.0 (current) being the single frequencu fire setting is AP4.
The Shrieker is the doom siren alternate. It is not one or 2-handed, but is actually attached to its users face in the same manner as a DS, so he can still hold a pistol and a CCW for example. In the shooting phase, it is treated as a flamer. In the CC phase, it permits it's bearer (and only its bearer) to ignore the enemies covers benefits with regard to Initiative- from the 3.5 Doom Siren; "In CC, a model with a doom siren will always strike in initiative sequence even if attacking enemy in cover ... Enemy who strike 1st regardless of Initiative are unaffected." So you can see, it wouldn't give a huge advantage to a whole unit, only the model equipped with it. The bearer, and only the bearer, basically counts as being equipped with plasma grenades.
I'll also restrict EC Chosen to 4-10 models per unit; the 4 because I want to give them the capability of forming retinues for an IC; unless there's a reason you think I can't - I'm all ears ....

fester wrote:Admitedly there is a secondary effect with the summoning and all but you cant give all the models +1 I for free but then if all the individual models are marked then the icon bearer can not be sneakilly killed.

They aren't given it for free; they pay for it by having the individual models points cost increased. Since NMs have inherent mark of slaanesh, and since EC are just one big slaanesh cult, I figured they should get it too; just like I think death guard, world eaters and thousand sons should ....

fester wrote:Like I said earlier, a common chosen in the new chaos codex comes at 18 points, this meens you pay only 5 points more for the bonuses I listed above, I would say they are cheap.
25pts, no probably above that to be balanced.

For extra 7pts/model, you would be paying for fearlessness, MoS, choice between vet skills and access to sonics and a special banner. Don't tell me that they should be higher cost solely because of their options; make their options cost more, if that's the bone of contention.

fester wrote:When reading this list I see alot of advantages, better and wider choise ranges, new and cool weapons... I however se very few drawbacks and if there are few if any ingame drawbacks then the points values must be upped accordingly, somthing I sadly do not see here ither.

The Vindicator: I have no attachment to this, as it was never seen as a particularily EC tank. Consider it dropped. Good enough?

fester wrote:In short, you have to balance the list, give the army flaws to bring down the points costs, drop the shrieker and allow the unit to upgrade their frag grenades to halucenogen gas grenades that you equip the entire unit with for say 2pts per model, they could work just like plasma grenades (the fumes particles are small/sinister enough to bypass any airclencing filters).

I like this a lot; do tell more. Probably too powerful, though ....

fester wrote:I think they removed it as posessed marines have so deformed limbs that they can no longer hold weapons, their hands and arms have burst their gloves and forarm guards and are now the weapons.
Simply looking at the models tell me this.

Well, ok; but do you know of any balance issue that could have led them to this restriction? I mean, possessed are a CC unit - not being able to give their champ a power weapon/fist just seems ... odd.

fester wrote:Now get me right, going down the list you have given a better weapon selections to each unit type, added new weapons, brought back very powerfull daemonic powers, you have even provided the list with a stripped down version of the blastmaster (oddly enough you have removed the doom siren option for troops but this is probably another typo).

Deliberate actually; again, they get the lighter "shrieker" with the toned-down profile.

fester wrote:Sadly I have the feeling you do not live in Luleå Sweden, if you did I would gladly meet you and play a few games with and against your list to see if I am correct, I would love to hear feedback from battles with them but my advice if you intend to keep them as they are is to play ONLY against them the first coupple of games, playing against somthing you are better equipped to see if they have balance issues as if you play them then its your superior tactics that claims the victory, not the power of the army

Good advice; and appreciated.

Wehrkind wrote:I don't know how much the Blissgiver should cost, but probably a lot. Power weapon that causes force weapon instant death on every hit, no psychic check seems like it should be ~60 points, maybe limited to 1 per army. I might be over thinking that though. Maybe allow a Ld check on the affected model(s) to see if they can resist instant death? Maybe a Ld check on 3 dice.

You do know that my Blissgiver is identical to the one that appears in codex:renegades and follows the same rules, don't you? I think the points cost is 40, correct me if I'm wrong.

I might consider boosting the prices up 1-2 points, but I don't know that it is as overpowered as people think. Old school CSM were pretty pumped though, so I don't think it is out of the question. There is a fine line between "Old Chaos Broken" and "Pretty nicely balanced". I think not having Obliterators helps, though it might also work to pull some of the tank options, maybe the Vindicator. That doesn't strike me as being a super Slaaneshi type vehicle.

Yeah; anything to balance this out would be nice. Vindie has to go ....

I have missinterpreted the shrieker, it seems interesting now, I am asuming it counts as a ranged weapon with assault 1 stats, this would balance the weapon out very nicelly, especially as it only gives its cover countering capabilities to the model holding it.

Gas grenades were just an Idea, at +2pts /model they may be cheap but I had nothing to go on, eldar are nasty in that way that not a single unit can buy them extra, units ither have them or dont.

Then we have unit size, this is actually one of the most important factors of the game, I dont mind that you dropped minimum by one even if I cant really see why, I meen you want 6 models for slaanesh, 5 + and IC makes 6, remember that you proposed to get the asp upgrade for free, not the entire model.

The upper end of the spectrum however is very important, if you are only able to get 10 models in a unit it will be at half strength fast and it will have fewer models to spare.

Again Necrons is an excelent example on failed design, if Necron warriors came in units of 5-10 they become alot less powerfull than the current 5-20, knocking over 10 necrons in a single shooting phase is doable, 20 is almost impossible.

The reason why possessed asps can not buy power weapons is actually very simple, at the start of the game after deploying the posessed roll for their daemonkin special rule, on a 6 they all count as having powerweapons, on a 4 they all have rending.

A more interesting question is why Tzeench could have them at all in the old codex, true they are not mutants as such but they are not psykers nor automations ither... to me very odd indeed.

Just out of curiosity, have you posted this list on Bolter&chainsword?
Dakka dakka is a very good forum for normal armies but bolter&chainsword is specialized on 3+ save armies and have a whole forum dediceted to slaanesh, as far as I know its the forum to be on to talk about SM's and CSM's (sorry dakka dakka but its true).

I am sure you will be able to get more experienced slaanesh players to respond there

I have edited in the prince and the lord. Only the sorceror, spawn and fiends to go and we're all done, bar the quibbling ...

I have missinterpreted the shrieker, it seems interesting now, I am asuming it counts as a ranged weapon with assault 1 stats, this would balance the weapon out very nicelly, especially as it only gives its cover countering capabilities to the model holding it.

Yup; flamer template, str4 ap5, assault 1 no cover save, plus, the CC ability.

Gas grenades were just an Idea, at +2pts /model they may be cheap but I had nothing to go on, eldar are nasty in that way that not a single unit can buy them extra, units ither have them or dont.

What about calling them hallucinogens and giving them to EC assault marines as a +2pts/model upgrade, counting as plasma grenades?

Then we have unit size, this is actually one of the most important factors of the game, I dont mind that you dropped minimum by one even if I cant really see why, I meen you want 6 models for slaanesh, 5 + and IC makes 6, remember that you proposed to get the asp upgrade for free, not the entire model.

Chopsen are 4 minimum as with an IC, this makes 5. For the retinue option of the Lord/sorceror.

The reason why possessed asps can not buy power weapons is actually very simple, at the start of the game after deploying the posessed roll for their daemonkin special rule, on a 6 they all count as having powerweapons, on a 4 they all have rending.

Alright, I suppose; they now have lost the option.
I suggest making them a point or two cheaper, thoug, to make them a bit more competitive as a choice. They're too random effectiveness-wise as is.

Just out of curiosity, have you posted this list on Bolter&chainsword?
Dakka dakka is a very good forum for normal armies but bolter&chainsword is specialized on 3+ save armies and have a whole forum dediceted to slaanesh, as far as I know its the forum to be on to talk about SM's and CSM's (sorry dakka dakka but its true).

I am sure you will be able to get more experienced slaanesh players to respond there

Yeah; http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=128802

The response was not particularly invigorating .....

EDIT: Anyone have any idea what Fiends should play like? They've got to be distinct from mounted daemonettes ...

And .... it's done! Phew, what a week ....

On veteran skills:
It's come to mind that all the other 4 cult legions could be said to have their own intrinsic abilities. For example:
World Eaters -> berzerkers -> furious charge, +1WS
Death guard -> plague marines -> feel no pain, -1INI
thousand sons -> rubric marines -> INV save, S&P

I think EC should -maybe- be denied vet skills in general (save for termies, chosen, characters etc) and instead get some sort of ability that reflects their nature, besides the +1 Ini conferred by MoS. We get sonic weaponry, sure, but I'm thinking some sort of minor ability, or detraction. Perhaps being unable to sweeping advance, due their being "distracted" by the bodies of the fallen, or something ....

Now, what do we know about EC? Their brains were altered by Fabius Bile to allow them to experience higher sensations, weren't they?

What else? Can anybody think of anything?

The Gifts need more:

What do we want EC to play like?
For example, dark eldar have a very distinct style of being fast and deadly but fragile. 13th Company has the horde of elite infantry, as do Templars to a degree, and Blood Angels has rabid assault, while Guard has a horde of puny mortals backed up by powerful battle tanks and artillery.
These are all very stylised.
How should we define the Emperors Children playstyle and how do we encourage this style to be employed on the tabletop, successfully?

Emperors children have I5, so they will be able to strike before most of the opponents you should be facing in CC.
They are Fearless; they never run away.
They have very effective, short-ranged weaponry which can devastate Guard-equivalent units in one turn of shooting.
They have a (official) psychic power which can matipulate enemy troop movements to EC wishes, though it is, again, short-ranged.
They have a LD-based vehicle upgrade whose effect increases the closer it is to the enemy.
They have a daemon-weapon which causes instant death.

All these things seem designed (even the sonics) to encourage close-quarters engagement, as soon as possible, with the enemy, while blastmaster havocs rain down fire-support from the rear, while psychic powers and warp amp screw with the enemy leadership and formation.
The idea is Shoot and Assault, together, backed up by lash shenanigans.
So maybe the direction we need to go is give abilities or rules that allow more interaction with enemy behaviour and also encourage rapid movement toward the enemy.
I don't know about you, but hate to see I5 wasted by gunline EC armies.
What do you think?

How is troop behaviour influenced nowadays ...
In 2nd Ed, you had Stupidity, hatred, Terror etc.
Frenzy.

Now you have pinning, fearless, Lash, fall back, counting as moved for the purposes of shooting, disallowing sweeping advances or consoladation moves, outnumbering in CC, ATSKNF, Slow and Purposeful etc.
Most of these could be used offensively if included in some sort of ability which forced a LD test on the enemy.
An ability that would be more effective the more LD-altering models you had in the vicinity (Warp Scream, Amp).
Which neatly gives the player a good reason to include Amp or Scream in the first place: tactics.

A nasty abilty would be to give a dreadnought or monstrous creature (counting as 10 models) the ability to make his CC foes fearless - increasing the amount of wounds he could cause, through "No Retreat!" (Aura of Acquiescence)
This is just one idea.