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Hi,

An interesting question that I could not find answered here on the boards yet through searching or in yak's pdf files.

Firstly Phoenix Lords joining harlequins, I know they are allowed to do it but who else finds the fact that the harlequins not only ignore every special rule in the game but also "Don't count as an aspect" amongst all other aspects in the elites section sickening?

I am confused as to what the Phoenix lord confers or does not confer to the unit of harlequins it joins at the beginning of the game, also what the unit confers/does not cofer. If anyone would like to clear that up for me that'd be dandy.

My question (that came up in our gaming group) is whether Phoenix Lords are able to benefit from the shadowseer's psychic ability to make 'harlequins' unable to be targeted unless you roll 2d6 spotting distance first (Of course not having the eldar codex handy makes RAW hard).

I thought that an IC that joined the harly unit with VOT would be visible (and targetable) whereas their unit would not be, so if declaring shooting at the unit and outside VOT range (and in shooting range) the only model that can be seen/shot in the unit would be the IC standing there (effectively cancelling their IC protection).

Note that this isn't a problem in 4th edition as the character just says "Ok I'll stand right behind the harlies" and not be targetted.

Wondering if things will change with respect to 5th edition.

Thoughts?

The Veil of Tears ability works for everyone in the squad, including any attached Independent Characters. I personally like to use Prince Yreil. The Phoenix Lords on the other had usually don't give any bonus to the harlequins. Their special rules usually state that they can only be used on specific aspect squads.

BeefyG wrote:Firstly Phoenix Lords joining harlequins, I know they are allowed to do it but who else finds the fact that the harlequins not only ignore every special rule in the game but also "Don't count as an aspect" amongst all other aspects in the elites section sickening?

Since Harlequins aren't Aspect Warriors, I'm not sure why you would expect anything different.

I am confused as to what the Phoenix lord confers or does not confer to the unit of harlequins it joins at the beginning of the game, also what the unit confers/does not cofer. If anyone would like to clear that up for me that'd be dandy.

Have a look at the rules for Independant Characters joining units, which can be found on page 50 and 51 of the rulebook.

My question (that came up in our gaming group) is whether Phoenix Lords are able to benefit from the shadowseer's psychic ability to make 'harlequins' unable to be targeted unless you roll 2d6 spotting distance first (Of course not having the eldar codex handy makes RAW hard).

The VOT doesn't specify that it only works on Harlequins... it simply affects the unit that the Shadowseer is a part of.

So if a Phoenix Lord joins the unit, he would be included in the VOT's effect.

Gee, post a list and the questions come out. lol

Phoenix Lords give Harlequins the guaranteed kills they need to win combat and run people down.

Harlequins give Phoenix Lords protection from shooting.
This has little bearing now, but in 5th will be quite handy.

My non-mech Eldar list is still being tooled up, but I expect to run this combination in it.

LOL Stelek,

Actually this was a question that came up a while ago...but your list was the catalyst that prompted the question again

Insaniak "Since Harlequins aren't Aspect Warriors, I'm not sure why you would expect anything different."

For a unit that breaks every special rule in the game, I don't know why I'd even consider them to follow the rest of their codex design either, colour me stupid for expecting balance from GW.

Thanks for the direct responses.

I was hoping for more Swiss army knife units in codex's ruin the game for me atm.

Here's to hoping that 5th edition RAW for direct fire blast/ordnance templates totally ruin the shadowseers day by choosing a point visible to the shooter to place the template and bypass the VOT power directly. -Not related to the question exactly but helps add to the harlequin bash

Cheers,

BeefyG wrote:
Here's to hoping that 5th edition RAW for direct fire blast/ordnance templates totally ruin the shadowseers day by choosing a point visible to the shooter to place the template and bypass the VOT power directly. -Not related to the question exactly but helps add to the harlequin bash

Thus why the Emperor saw fit to bestow his people with Vindicare assasins!

cervidal wrote:

BeefyG wrote:
Here's to hoping that 5th edition RAW for direct fire blast/ordnance templates totally ruin the shadowseers day by choosing a point visible to the shooter to place the template and bypass the VOT power directly. -Not related to the question exactly but helps add to the harlequin bash

Thus why the Emperor saw fit to bestow his people with Vindicare assasins!

The veil of tears isn't night fight, so the vindicare still needs to roll sight. The calidus on the other hand would probably do a number on them though. Another point of note is that the shadow seer is a psyker so the calexus might also do the trick.

Phoenix wrote:The calidus on the other hand would probably do a number on them though.

That depends on what exactly the Neural shredder is gonna do to a PLord if it wounds! I kid, I kid!

Oh my.

BeefyG wrote:
For a unit that breaks every special rule in the game, I don't know why I'd even consider them to follow the rest of their codex design either, colour me stupid for expecting balance from GW.

You can argue that harlequins are not balanced, but regardless of their power to point ratio, harlequins are not and have never been aspect warriors. If the new codex made them aspect warriors, that would be a contradiction of roughly 15 years of fluff.

A phoenix lord joined to a unit of harlequins does benefit from the veil of tears. He does not benefit from furious charge, but he does not prevent the harlequins from using this ability. He does not benefit from hit and run, and the harlequins lose this ability while the phoenix lord is joined to their unit. He also does not benefit from the flip belts but may still benefit from the move through cover rule (since he is a character).

Shirou has it correct.

So what you do is, split the Phoenix Lord off during movement.

Then assault something else, or assault with the Harlequins and leave the Phoenix Lord behind. Most will survive multiple rounds of combat against line troops, and your Harlequins can always come back for 'anuver go' as the Orks would say.