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Hello all!

I am mainly a 40k player and I have been avoiding warhammer for a long time. I just couldnt find any race or army in warhammer interesting in any way - every single army seemed boring and dull, but I think I finally found something that really got my creative juices flowing.

My army will be based on Empire, but since I know very little of actual gameplay and mechanics of warhammer/empire army I need your help

So,
What is it that makes my Empire more fascinating than the standard issue empire? well, let me tell ya...

Anyone know the story of Gulliver's Travels? in the book, there is an island called Lilliput, and island filled with people much like us, but extremely small - Remembering this story from my childhood and looking at a big pile of warmaster empire blisters on my table gave the basic idea - and idea for a great looking army that is both fun and interesting for me to model and paint, and also very unique lookswise.

now comes the problems - I really dont have a clue of what is functional and what is not when it comes to actually choosing the units and making the list work, so I am throwing the ball to you - tell me which units I really need for it to work, and, if you have a great "lilliputish" idea for a model, dont hesitate to tell me about it

Ok, so there is the frameworks, and ive allready started thinking of what to use as what - I am not going to just clip a single warmaster-size halberdier to its own square base and claim it as a warhammer equivalent - every base will have several miniatures (for example, a halberdier would look like a small square base with 3-5 warmaster-size empire soldiers)

Im not yet decided on anything, just brainstorming, but here is some model-ideas :
-warmaster infantry as some basic infantry
-warmaster empire cannons as pistol-armed infantry (was it pistoliers or handgunners, cant remember...)
-warmaster cavalry as some sort of elite infantry

still in the thinktank :
-Is there any flying units in empire? I guess no? was thinking that maybe a flock of warmaster empire heroes on assorted flying beasts could count as a single empire hero with a griffon or similar beastie?
-Warmaster steamtanks - are they mobile enough to be cavalry with pistols, or what would you suggest? some slower, very durable unit with a shooting attack? is there any?
-Big models like steamtanks, cannons and such - I have this vision of flying ships in my head! would really like to use it to do something wild
Imagine a warmaster-size warship, but with zeppelinlike flying capabilities - maybe some real historical warships could work as a startingpoint?

So, this is what ive been planning - give me some feedback and fresh ideas!

Eagerly waiting for replies, Innom the pirate

EDIT1:

HEUREKA!

- hellblaster volleygun = a magical flying warship shooting broadside volleys to the enemy ranks - also, started thinking that maybe a ship can fly without the zeppelinlike additions - sure, zeppelinship is more realistic than a "magically flying ship" but then again, what is realistic about warhammer - and also, magic is so commonplace in games like this that I cant see any good reason not to make em "fly by magic" - old ships are beutifull, i dont want to change the silhuette too much.
- empire artillery= some smaller ship? a frigate? all ships would ofcourse have alot of warmaster empire as crew!
- State troops / militia = basic warmaster assorted empire troops
- greatswords = warmaster empire knights
- handgunners = warmaster empire cannons
- Hero on beastie = warmaster count on griffon + maybe some warmaster empire soldiers modelled on warmaster giant eagles or something - all on 1 base.
- empire wizard = a big bunch of assorted warmaster casters and blasters on a single base.

gief more!

have you thought about maybe doing an army based just on gullivers travels. possibly having lilliputians and the other island he went to...cant remember the name, but were every one was big?

hmmh, not a bad idea that - problem is, idd have to find models that are larger in size than the regular humans in warhammer, but they would still need to look like 1800ish humans, and not for example, ogres.

Alltough, dressing the new ogre range in 1800ish attires is a tempting tought.

Ive allready started on the handgunners and designing a ship that would work as a volleygun, but when I get these done (and ofc. got em photographed and planted to this thread...) I might do a prototype of a "gigantic" man.

Thanks alot for the idea Tyler!

This sounds totally frikken awesome. Just be sure to mount them on the proper bases, and I want to see them when it's done!

Very interesting and I do hope you post pics of your progress. As far as flying models in an Empire army there is the Elector Count on a Griffon (think he has a dragon option now). You could do a unit of guys flying on griffons/hippogryphs/eagles as a "counts as" for this. It would be pretty effective too.

The only thing I see wrong with the whole idea is scale to movement. We have a local game here called Armies of Arcana and you can use ANY models you want. Most people here use 15mm armies, but the rules and movements don't change when you use 25/28mm. So it looks normal when a unit of 28mm cavalry move 14', but it looks pretty crazy when a unit of 15mm (or 10mm for Warmaster) cavalry move 14'.

Very cool idea though and I still think you should run with it.

Truth be told, while the Warmaster models are small, I don't think they're really small enough for what you want to do. If I'm not mistaken (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong), but Warmaster scale is bigger than Epic 40k scale, right? Seems to me that Epic 40k scale would be about what you need, but I think the Warmaster stuff may be too big for what you're talking about.

Thanks alot for the feedback fellas!

@Stormtrooper X : Valid point with the movement - and this is exactly the reason why I dont have cavalry planned, other than the pistoliers (which will use the warmaster steamtank model - maybe a tad fast for a steamtank still, but since mobility and a shooting attack is what steamtanks represent in my mind, I see no huge problem with this)
All other units will be different types of infantry, even those that are represented by warmaster cavalry.

Other than that, Im not after tournaments with this project - so I might need to "roleplay" some - i.e. not move full distances or something like this.

@open_sketchbook : yes, they are all going to be standing on the small square bases - except those that arent (what? ) - what I mean is, yes, I am planning to use correct base-size for all units I intend to use.

@Death By Monkeys : I guess this might be a matter of taste - epic size is roughly half the size of warmaster, a warmaster man is about 10mm tall - I think its small enough to count as a Lilliputian also, since the whole project started from the 30odd warmaster empire blisters I found from my closet, im not going to change the size of the models.

Ill put some pictures up soon(...ish. I hope)
Allready carved a ships basic frame from styrofoam - it started as a test just to see if I could carve anything resembling a ship, but it turned out so well that when I get it textured somewhat ill post a WIP pic.
Allso, trying to make the first handgunners (i.e. warmaster cannons and crews) and so far so good - wont promise nothing about painting tough, since atm my time is limited at best.

Hope to show yall some results soon,
Innom

EDIT

some pictures, as promised - mind you lot, that its a really early wip! alot will still happen (and I mean ALOT!!) just something to show im serious about this all!


dar she blows! mind you, this pic I post only to show you the warmaster cannons (as in the handgunners of my army) fitted on small square bases - this is the only good pic of them, since I cant bloody use my camera!)


Frontwiew to show ya how its getting slowly paneled, 3mm cardboard-plank at a time!


the naked styrofoam hull that is keeping it all together - im quite proud about how it turned out, since this is my first time ever making a ship of anykind - and the first time I actually tried to do a model out of it (I usually consider styrofoam and cardboard too "clumsy" for modeluse, but for an old ship it seems to fit in perfect)


AIRSHIP AHOY! yeah! I decided to go zeppelin afterall! it gives you the basic silhuette of it, but again - this is really early stages - bare with me, it might take me a while to make it even paintable


All aboard! this I threw in just to give you a size-perspective - may be it that the ship is a tad small to even these little fellas, but im pretty convinced it will make a great cannon / mortar still - ill make it float with a see-trough rod over a cannonsize round base (btw, what are the diameters for such a base?)

SO! im really enjoying this project so far - and feelin happy about the progress (...and about the fact that ill be able to build even MORE AIRSHIPS in the near future!!...ill just finish this one first )

Oh! realized that I gave ya some bonus footage of the Khemri bloodbowl-team I am modelling/painting to a good friend of mine (they be the yellow/black/indigo fellas in the background)

stay tuned for more!
- Innom (the pirate, now gone from naval to aerial)

Just a quick question for ya - should I change the army from being empire to dwarf?
Dwarfs got a more suitable movement value for em lil fellas and that ship im doing would pass alot better as a gyrocopter than a stagnant artillery piece.

I.e.
- Dwarf handgunners : warmaster empire cannons
- Dwarf Cannons : warmaster empire steamtanks
- Dwarf Gyrocopter : My zeppelin-ship project

Dwarfs also got a better range of slow infantry than empire, so I can have a more diverse list working under "counts as" principle.

what ya think

Nice - I like the WIP. I think your ideas for making this a Dwarf army rather than an Empire army make a lot of sense - in particular, I like the idea of the zeppelin as a gyrocopter. Great idea!

The dwarf idea probably works better since it looks like you'd like to add a little steam techno to your army. However, did Lilliputs have long ass beards?

Dont know about beards, but what they will have is an airship - soon! Cant put it into words how much I am liking this project! every step gives me more and more confidence that I actually am gonna pull this off, and also - am getting really proud about the overall look of the ship.
So far, Everything is done without any schematics, drawings or whatever - it was actually fools luck that the 3mm wide cardboard planks fit the hull as they did - I didnt do any measuring when I carved the styrofoam base for the thing, and I didnt measure it after it was ready (3mm wide planks just felt the right width for it - when I glued the first one on, I didnt even count how many will fit 1 side, I just glued em there one by one untill I reached the bottom)

Anyways, enough babble - moar pictures! Deck is in place, cargohold net shows nicely and the guns came out swell















Ahh...how I love the smell of gunpowder comin from that beastie

So, what ya think so far?
I promise, I will take better pictures eventually - I am learning to use the cheap-ass camera I have - eventually the pics are gonna be less blurry and stuff.

Fantastic. Brilliant modelling and lovely idea (and it can be used for warmaster too!).

Though you should consider doing a Mordheim-esque skirmish game of HOUYHNHNMS vs. Yahoos ('cause platonic horses vs. monkey-people is made of win).

WOW! That looks fantastic! Okay, seeing that convinces me that you can pull this army off.

thanks alot fellas Nice to get positive feedback!

New stuff added - Deck fully paneled, the mast(?) in the bow - bowmast? bow...pointy...bit?...

anyways, pic :

I second the HOUYHNHNMS. A unit of "cavalry" that is in fact horses walking around on their hind legs carrying rifles would rock. In addition, you could cry "They say the things that are not so! GET EM!" when they charge.

That boat is awesome though. This is going to be such a cool army.

I've been suspiciously quiet so far ...

Great idea, love where you're headed with all this. Apart from the floating arc I actually really like the cannons on lil' bases, super effective 'handgunner' if you ask me. As much as I think dwarfs is a better fit for all the basic infantry (slow), I really want you to be able to have the swarm of flying monsters as a pegasus general and the cluster of casters as a wizard, and including some cavalry would be excellent (and impossible in the dwarf list). Which sadly still leaves the boat high and dry ... Perhaps dwarfs is doable, but then there's the T4 everywhere ...

I'll keep thinking on it, dunno if you have more ideas bouncing around for one list than the other. Luck all the same, very cool!

- Salvage

The T4 actually works for the army if you thinkk about it as its not necessarily their ability to take a hit but the fact that its easy for them to avoid being hit, and the fact that theres more than one of the little buggers on a base. Not to metion a metal cannon that the enemies would have to destroy in the case of the handgunners.

The other advantage of doing this as a Dwarf army is fewer models to convert. When doing a 100% conversion army, this can be a big factor in being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel when your focus begins to wane and you get inspired by other things.

Thanks again for the feedback, its like fuel to my fire

@Boss_Salvage : I am ofcourse kinda sad that the dwarfs dont have a flying general or any magicians for that matter, but then again - I knew that I would have to make alot of compromises in the end if I want to use a valid armybook of any kind. Also, the stats-issue is something I am trying to reason in many ways, like "but really, they have really thick overalls, made of finest linen - really!" In the end, I will find ways to justify statlines, but ofc it would be nice to allocate your own - only then it wouldnt be a valid army anymore.

Also, been thinking of the Warmaster Count of Griffon, and I think it could be passed as a single model hero from the dwarf army (some sort of slayer, maybe?) since even if its small - its still a hero on a griffon! (the model is actually a bit bigger than your standard issue dwarf)

@Death By Monkeys : ah...I know all about that stuff - valid point again, and this is the reason im not going to make horsies that walk around on hindlegs and shoot with shotguns (btw, reminds me of an old brilliant cartoon called bravestar - had an android horse that was kickass!)

Thanks again fellas, and now for something new - first passengers aboard!

Captain on the deck, avast ye slobs!
Apologies again for the blurry shots - I really dont know the difference between a digital camera and a gram of moldy cheese.


Btw, doesnt really show the details that well - anyway, there is some ;
Cut of the hand of the captain and made a hook for him out of thin wire - also shaved 1 leg into a peg.
The sailor that is holding the wheel had a sword and he was anoyingly hugging it with his face, so I had to remove it and give the bloke a shave with a scalpel.
Also, that damn wheel is probably the smallest multipart thing Ive done from plasticard, ever! when you are cutting spokes for the wheel out of plasticard that are narrower and shorter than a millimeter, you know ya keepin it small.

Next up will be some more detail work on the decks, be prepared!

Tyler and Monkeys make good points and I can deal with T4 for the buggers - particularly in the case of cannon thunderers, armored knight hammerers and 3 spearmen per base warriors

And that is the tiniest converting I could imagine - the pirate's lil' tiny hook looks great, and the wheel is insane!

- Salvage

I have to throw my hat in as well and say that not only is this a fantastic theme idea, but so far your execution is top notch. Your attention to the small details on the ship pay off big time for a project like this. From the planking and the port and starboard cannons, to the crew details. Excellent stuff, really. You should stop by the model ship area of your local hobby shop sometime, I'm sure just looking at all the various miniature supplies there (rigging, planking, brass accents, etc) will provide even more inspiration.

I'm excited to see where you take this Lilliputian Army, keep it up!

that is a sweet army, keep the pics coming!

Thanks alot, again

@Teek : tell ya the truth, your flying choppers were pretty much the spark that made me want to do something wild out of plasticard - I thank you for that (em bikes seriously kick arse)
There is alot of other threads that gave me huge ispiration before I actually started doing it myself again after a very, very long break, but your choppers just simply take the cake.

@Salvage : thanks boss! that is exactly the lineup I need! also, what ya think of using Warmaster Volleyguns as crossbowmen? there is dwarfs with xbows, right? Or should I just stick to thunderers with all my cannons?

Thanks again fellas, alot of good ideas ya fellas spawned sofar!

Now, last update before I go to bed - did some detailwork on the deck ; the doors, the cargohold railings and the steps to the wheel.





Might be that my progress will slow down soon - school starting monday, really heavy period takes its toll.
We will see what weekend brings (...if I dont go tenderize my brainz outside)

More pictures - not much progress (outer railings, rest of the crew and masts added - also started to play around with the balloon)

This time around tough, I really tried to make the pictures less blurry, but just as I started to get it, my cameras batteries died. grr.

Hopefully I can take the final pictures of the ship myself when its finished, but still got a long way to go at photographing stuff.

anyhows, the pics ;





those masts are going to double up as the fuselage of the balloon - they will have some sort of nozzle at the top, with a flame rising into the openings - much like a real hotairballoon. They will also have some more detail - maybe some sort of crows nest (I will fit same kind of metal loops to both masts too and weave some rope from loop to loop, so it seems that the balloon isnt getting away from the fuselages)

There is still ALOT of detail ahead - gundoors, the ornamented windows at the stern (prolly gonna greenstuff this part), the crowsnests/mast details, anchor (maybe? dunno), figurehead (meaning the bonnie lass below the foremast, at the bow of the ship), all the ropeworks and ofc the balloon and all its details, too numerous to start rambling on...oh yeah! and then there is the question of steering - im thinking of 2-3 propellers to the stern of the ship, but havent decided on anything yet.

More stuff incoming soon

Hokey smokes, man! You are absolutely mad! The level of detail on that thing is incredible! How are your eyes not burned pits in your skull from staring at the teeny-tiny pieces?

Woot. Another crazy on Dakka!

This is really turning out great so far.

I like it. Nice idea to go with, question tho. what are you gonna use as your block troops? Just wondrn if your gonna have just lots of little guys or some of the guys from the gian island mixed in, and some normal size peeps (such as gulliver himself) spread around your force, because i think done right this could be one of the most unique/cool fantasy armies i've seen in a while.

I demand you construct this inside of a glass bottle. Dooooo iiiiiit!

I have no background in Warhammer whatsoever (40k only) so I'm probably wrong but won't this mess up line of sight? Or are all of these troops non-missile? Don't get me wrong, it looks cool and it's an amazing idea but aren't you going to have a really hard time drawing line of sight over anything larger than a tree stump?

1. You're gonna make an ork blush! I'm glad you dig the Deff Choppas! And if more people look at others work and get inspired to create their own masterpieces, the whole hobby benefits. I can only imagine whom will see Lilliputian Fury and decide to sit down and create.

2. The ship looks incredible so far, the detail is superb.

3. Re: core troops and line of sight, I picture a mob of tiny lilliputians geared similarly to normal troops manning a castle siege. Perhaps a couple in the front lines with ladders (All the better to stab those "tall folk" in the face!) Or a few carrying a ladder upright, with a single brave soul "riding" the top, screaming on the charge! He could serve as the point for LOS or height focus, if need be.

I'll say it again, such a wonderful idea, and you're definitely doing it fair justice. Keep it up!