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Been trying to decide what army I really want to take to Las Vegas this year.

This is an idea I've been rolling around in my head.

I get the feeling there's going to be alot of swarms at LV.

So, is it crazy? Yes, it's entirely a gunline army but given my track record with them...

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1750 Pts - Witch Hunters Roster - Hammer of the Witches

1 Inquisitor Lord @ 241 Pts
Hammer of the Witches; Auspex; Excruciators; Liber Heresius; Psychic Hood
2 Chirurgeon @ [24] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
1 Sage @ [10] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
2 Warrior @ [50] Pts
Gun Servitor
1 Gun Servitor @ [15] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Heavy Bolter (x1); Targeter
1 Warrior @ [45] Pts
Gun Servitor
1 Gun Servitor @ [35] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Plasma Cannon (x1); Targeter
1 Plasma Cannon @ [0] Pts
1 Excruciators @ [5] Pts

1 Inquisitor @ 171 Pts
Hammer of the Witches; Auspex
2 Chirurgeon @ [24] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
1 Sage @ [10] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
2 Warrior @ [50] Pts
Gun Servitor
1 Gun Servitor @ [15] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Heavy Bolter (x1); Targeter
1 Warrior @ [45] Pts
Gun Servitor
1 Gun Servitor @ [35] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Plasma Cannon (x1); Targeter
1 Plasma Cannon @ [0] Pts

1 Inquisitor @ 171 Pts
Hammer of the Witches; Auspex
2 Chirurgeon @ [24] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
1 Sage @ [10] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
2 Warrior @ [50] Pts
Gun Servitor
1 Gun Servitor @ [15] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Heavy Bolter (x1); Targeter
1 Warrior @ [45] Pts
Gun Servitor
1 Gun Servitor @ [35] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Plasma Cannon (x1); Targeter
1 Plasma Cannon @ [0] Pts

1 Inquisitor [OM] @ 185 Pts
Psycannon; Auspex; Emperor's Tarot; Targeter
2 Mystic [OM] @ [12] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
1 Sage [OM] @ [10] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
2 Warrior [OM] @ [50] Pts
Gun Servitor
1 Gun Servitor [OM] @ [15] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Heavy Bolter (x1); Targeter
1 Warrior [OM] @ [45] Pts
Gun Servitor
1 Gun Servitor [OM] @ [35] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Plasma Cannon (x1); Targeter
1 Plasma Cannon [OM] @ [0] Pts

5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers @ 60 Pts
Frag Grenades; Hellgun (x3); Flamer (x2); Targeter

5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers @ 60 Pts
Frag Grenades; Hellgun (x3); Flamer (x2); Targeter

6 Retributor Squad @ 158 Pts
Bolter (x2); Heavy Bolter (x4)
1 Veteran Sister Superior @ [32] Pts
Bolter; Auspex; Book of St. Lucius

6 Retributor Squad @ 158 Pts
Bolter (x2); Heavy Bolter (x4)
1 Veteran Sister Superior @ [32] Pts
Bolter; Auspex; Book of St. Lucius

6 Retributor Squad @ 158 Pts
Bolter (x2); Heavy Bolter (x4)
1 Veteran Sister Superior @ [32] Pts
Bolter; Auspex; Book of St. Lucius

0 Infantry Platoon @ 380 Pts
0 Command Squad @ [40] Pts
1 Junior Officer @ [40] Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol
4 Guardsmen @ [0] Pts
Lasgun (x4)
9 Infantry Squad @ [85] Pts
Lasgun (x8); Lascannon
1 Sergeant @ [6] Pts
Laspistol & CCW
9 Infantry Squad @ [85] Pts
Lasgun (x8); Lascannon
1 Sergeant @ [6] Pts
Laspistol & CCW
9 Infantry Squad @ [85] Pts
Lasgun (x8); Lascannon
1 Sergeant @ [6] Pts
Laspistol & CCW
9 Infantry Squad @ [85] Pts
Lasgun (x8); Lascannon
1 Sergeant @ [6] Pts
Laspistol & CCW

Total Roster Cost: 1740

looks interesting.

You don't think you're better off with some basic, bolter carrying sisters then all the Inquisitor stuff.

Meh. If I had 1850 points, yes.

Since I don't, no. lol

It'll get owned by eldar or nids. Designing to fight against just the orks strikes me as a foolish move.

ender502

Isn't designed to just fight Orks.

This list can kill nids just fine.

If you noticed it's geared entirely to kill Eldar as well.

Stelek wrote:
If you noticed it's geared entirely to kill Eldar as well.

Yep, all those flamers will do wonders against mech eldar.

Also, considering bs3, you'd be better off with autocannons over lascannons...if you are "entirely" geared for killing eldar.

The plasma cannon squads are the only decent threat against eth eldar and they are far too fragile to last. Same goes for zilla nids.

Mech eldar and nids will rule you.

ender502

Maybe we will see how it does against my 3 Falcons at the Vegas GT.

Darrian

Aren't excruciators one per army? Maybe I'm missing something.

Either way, interesting list, I've never seen anyone using hammer of the witches, much less that many of them. Would be interesting to see in action...not that I'd actually go to las Vegas, since I can't even drag myself to RTTs at game empire.

I guess I would also second that autocannons would probably be more effective than lascannons at glancing eldar skimmers, and probably as effective against T 6 and T 7 tyranids.

@Lambadomy, Ivan used "hammer of the Witches" in his WH army at the Game Empire RTT last Saturday. We missed you and Phoenix. Oh, and I won the RTT with my Eldar army. Eldrad and Avatar FTW!

Darrian

Yep, unless there's a super-secret FAQ out there that says otherwise, Excruciators are one per army.

ender502 wrote:It'll get owned by eldar or nids. Designing to fight against just the orks strikes me as a foolish move.

ender502

This is for a GT, so it needs to be a take-all-comers list.

There is plenty of things out there that you need Lascannons to kill.

Against Mech Eldar he has 4, BS3 Lascannons, and 3 Plasma Cannons with BS4 and a re-roll. Certainly not ideal against Mech Eldar, but not defenseless.

Remember also that Mech Eldar might also be gimped by the time the LVGT rolls around, so it will be less of a threat.

This army lays down a great deal of firepower at 24"+ so it will do well against almost every army.


I am thinking about taking WH to the LVGT as well. Maybe I will see if I can do better in battle points with the same army as you again Stelek.

Hmmm I wasn't aware they were one per army. No big deal really.

I guess the question for darrian is, did you play Ivan? If not, is this where I question the skill of your opponents?

Blackmoor wrote:Remember also that Mech Eldar might also be gimped by the time the LVGT rolls around, so it will be less of a threat.

Isn't 5th slated for a June/July time frame?

If it hits say early July, I wager 5th will be in place for LV.

Orks will be everywhere, Eldar...not so much.

Orks are IMO the first list really designed with 5th edition in mind.

yeha, I also thought about the 5th edition thing...seems likely, which may also explain why they've pushed every tournament so far back in the year. Puts every tournament 30 days+ after the release of 5th edition maybe? Not that this is good for me...I'm not sure Tau are going to be as competitive under 5th edition, I guess I should start playing some practice games.

Well 60 days is the 'official' cutoff for 5th to make it into a GW GT.

I don't think it'd do well for the GT 'season' to have 4th at the beginning of September and 5th at the end of it.

Who knows. Stupid decisions are pretty normal for GW.

This is the same group that made people change codexes mid-tournament for 'Ardboyz. I wouldn't be surprised.

They'd need to release 5th edition really early to have it ready for the games days, but not that early to be ready for the GTs, even with a 60 day cutoff thats July 5th. I thought I had read that the rules only needed to be out 30 days ahead of time in a recent post, but I can't find it so I'm probably just going batty in my old age.

@Darrian - Cool, I'll make the next one - I just need to go and buy the Piranha's and sniper drones I need so I'm not relying on borrowing them from people who may or may not be going themselves.

@Lambadomy, Cool, I will catch you at the next one.

@Stelek, No I did not play Ivan at this RTT, but I have played him and I have never lost to him. Actually, I have played many WH armies and I have only lost to one, ever, and the owners name was not Ivan.
What Ivan does know, is that "Hammer of the Witches" is a terrible ability to use against my army and would get his Inquisitors killed long before it killed Eldrad. I guess Ivan is a pretty smart player.

Darrian

Indeed. I'm curious how it kills his inquisitors. It doesn't kill mine. Guess I'm smarter.

Of course if all you have is Eldrad not sure how long the Ghosthelm is going to hold up to it, but I do wonder how long any Warlocks you might have will live with Hammer going off. Maybe your rune armor saves you. lol

I used to be pretty good with my Sisters. That was back in the day of CA2K, their 'golden age' IMO. Till my buddy stjohn did really well with his I had the best record for Sisters at a GW GT. I think he's better than I ever was, he did really well with the 'Witchhunters' list and no IG.

By the way, you should lose games to opponents you play at your FLGS. They won't think you're a prick. Well, not as big of one, anyway.

Well, let's see, Your Inquisitor lord is L:10, Your Inquisitors are L:8. Eldrad has Runes of Warding meaning that every time your Inquisitor try to cast a psychic power they are going to test on 3d6. That means that the lord has a slightly greater than 50% chance of it failing and almost 50% chance of himself taking a perils of the warp test himself. Your Inquisitors have around a 65% chance of the power failing and around 60% chance of a perils of the warp test. Now, here is where it gets good, all of your Inquisitors have a T:3 meaning that the wound from the failed warp test will insta kill them.

Eldrad has a ghosthelm that negates 66% of the perils of the warp attacks AND a T:4 meaning that he survives the wound and is no insta killed.

I hope this all makes sense to you Stelek. Feel free to ask for further assistance. I am here to help.

Darrian

@Stelek, BTW, I won the last 3 RTT's at my FLGS and I have not scored lower than a 22 on sportsmanship for any of them. I believe that is a higher sportsmanship score than you got at the Vegas GT last year and the GT had 5 games to get sportsmanship scores instead of the 3 games that an RTT has. But, thanks for the advise anyhow.

Darrian

Well, let's see. I have instadeath protection on all of my inquisitors. Woops.

So let's work over that math again:

Inq Lord casts it every other turn.
Inq cast it two turns per game, twice.

So over a 6 turn game, that means I roll 7D6 to see how many perils of the warp tests you take. What'll be real fun is stopping your psychic powers with my LD10 psychic hood, but strangely you left that out of your otherwise witty reparte. Probably something to do with a LD10 psychic hood really hurts Eldrad, but hey what do we know? Maybe being the bully of south pasadena makes your Eldrad immune to it.

Should kill all of your warlocks, who I note you probably just realized will melt away in the face of Hammer since they do not have Ghosthelms.

Eldrad has 3 wounds, and if I roll very low you might not have to take a test on him every turn...but once the Warlocks are zapped, doesn't that cripple the usual Eldatar army scheme since without warlocks you lose a significant edge? (The answer is yes, even though you'll come up with some bs saying otherwise.)

You can claim you'll suddenly be in cover against all my heavy bolter shots, but everyone who plays knows it's both unlikely and probably won't matter anyway--guardians will just die to the massive bolter rounds, but I guess your friend Ivan doesn't run Witchhunters like this. Out in the open, without conceal to protect you...you'll suffer. Wait, I know! You run ALL Eldar missile launchers, don't ya.

I bow before your ability to win a RTT at a store with all of your friends. I'm sure everyone else is impressed with your honest take on sportsmanship.

Why don't you step up and be a man, and run a better RTT yourself since obviously you're above the local competition. Or does being a bully make you feel better?

I know I'd rather have friends at my local FLGS than beat their heads in repeatedly at tournaments just because I *can*.

Maybe all of this is beyond you. I guess we'll see by how much venom, and how little reconciliation, you put in your response.

Won't we.

I would think the Chirurgeons would keep the Inquisitors from worrying about any Perils of the warp. All three of them would still need to cast like 4 or 5 turns in a row to have any chance of even bothering Eldrad, but they'd probably lay waste to any warlocks and even normal farseers in a couple turns, even with runes of warding - he'd get about one cast off a turn.

I don't PLAN on killing Eldrad, but things like:

Lash Sorcerors on Bikes or with Wings.
Thousand Sons unit champions.
Zoanthropes
Warlocks
Shadowseers
DH Inquisitors
Farseers
Demonhunters unit champions
Warpheads

Lesser chance, call it the 'BONUS!' if you do:

Eldrad
Demon Princes
Hive Tyrants
Fury Librarians

The list keeps getting longer, so I'll just leave off.

Hopefully people see my point. Almost everyone but Necrons and Tau are vulnerable in the 'normal' army builds floating out there.

It isn't a perfect list, it's just as perfect as I can make it without compromising the theme of anti-psyker/heavy bolters.

Who said I use warlocks? The only time I have used warlocks is if I use a wraithlord as my third HS. I have no problem with your hood, I still get more than 50% of my powers off.

Strangely Stelek, you keep talking about all these "friends" of yours, but, A) they never post here. B) no one has ever posted that they have played you and had a positive experience. The funniest/saddest thing I have ever heard in reference to playing you was that your opponents at the Vegas GT said "they looked like they had the life sucked out of them" and that was from an official at the event.
There are over 20 members of Dakka that I have played in RTT/GT's and I challenge you to find a single negative comment that any of them have written about me or a game that they have played with me. BTW, there are at least 5 threads in the batrep section that I am mentioned in, if you would like to check. Any with your games?

Darrian

You fail.

Grats.

Ok mister 18 sportsmanship at the Vegas GT.

BTW, if you do show up to the Vegas GT this year, I will ask the judges to pair me against you in round one. Talk is cheap Andrew Sutton.

Darrian

Lol...why does every thread with Stelek turn into some kind of pissing-contest?

Anyway, the list is pretty interesting. I can honestly say I've never seen anything like it, and it does a pretty good job of covering most of the bases for a successful list. I think you'll possibly have trouble against Tau, as you lack the mobility to threaten most of their units which will pick away at you.

I'm thinking a fight with a very shooty army, like all infantry IG, could be rough, too. You have a lot of heavy bolters, though, so it could get ugly either way. Basilisks, too, could be troublesome, as again, you don't have any means to really hit them.

Still, I think you've got a fighting chance against bad match-ups, so that's a good start.

Am I the only one enjoying this? Would very much like to be at that game.

Darrian13 wrote: The funniest/saddest thing I have ever heard in reference to playing you was that your opponents at the Vegas GT said "they looked like they had the life sucked out of them" and that was from an official at the event.

BTW, if you do show up to the Vegas GT this year, I will ask the judges to pair me against you in round one. Talk is cheap Andrew Sutton.

Darrian

Don't do it, he will steal your soul!!!

Grimaldi wrote:
Anyway, the list is pretty interesting. I can honestly say I've never seen anything like it, and it does a pretty good job of covering most of the bases for a successful list. I think you'll possibly have trouble against Tau, as you lack the mobility to threaten most of their units which will pick away at you.

I'm thinking a fight with a very shooty army, like all infantry IG, could be rough, too. You have a lot of heavy bolters, though, so it could get ugly either way. Basilisks, too, could be troublesome, as again, you don't have any means to really hit them.

Still, I think you've got a fighting chance against bad match-ups, so that's a good start.

I have seen an army that is similar to Stelek's. 2-time GT winner Marc Parker has playing a similar army with a lot of Inquisitors, only it was allied with with Space Marines instead of IG.

Every army has bad match ups...there is no way to account for all armies.

This army will do well against static shooting armies, and horde armies. Since a game against IG will be a gun duel at 24"+, the heavy bolters will shred IG infantry, with just a few IG BS3 heavy weapons and the tank fire coming back. Stelek's army can take also take some fire because the Inquisitors have Chirurgeons, and the Retributors have Spirit of the Martyr.

The weakness of this army is that if there is enough terrain (and no one knows right now how terrain will work in 5th edition) that fast armies will be able to out-maneuver this army, armies like Eldar, Tau and Dark Eldar.

The other weakness of this army is in the anti-tank department. If an army had a lot of AV with 13+ front armor, this build will struggle. Armies like Mech IG, Necrons with 2+ monoliths, lots of Predators etc.

Another army that this list will have trouble with is against 2+ armor saves. Armies with 9 oblits, and terminators (Lysander and Deathwing etc).

And the last army it will have trouble with Space Marine Drop Pods.