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UPDATED LIST

Last update hopefully, after reading through stelek's chaos guide I changed my army around quite a bit..(yeah again)

2000 exactly

HQ 330
Lord Contagion 165
Daemon Prince, Wings, MoN, NRot
Lord "Hiv" 165
Daemon Prince, Wings, MoN, NRot

Fast Attack 620
CRN1 310
10xChaos Raptors, 2x Melta, Champ, 2xClaws, MoN, MBombs
CRN2 310
10xChaos Raptors, 2x Melta, Champ, 2xClaws, MoN, MBombs

Troops 600
PM1 300
10xPlague Marines, 2xPlasma, Champ, PFist
PM2 300
10xPlague Marines, 2xPlasma, Champ, PFist

Heavy 450
2x Obliterator 150
2x Obliterator 150
2x Obliterator 150


Figured if I was gonna drop 1 tank for 2 oblit's might as well drop em all. Number's make a bit more sense now, can't afford to be stubborn about favored.
I suppose as one other possibility I could drop one plague marine squad and downgrade 1st DP to nurgle's rot for a 2nd 310 raptor squad.

I just wanted to mention for reference my opponent's general army before whatever he's rebuilding:

-blood angels army
-owns a vindicator but does not always use it
-likes razorbacks with lascanons a lot
-has a tri-las predator
-has a lascannon or missle launcher in just about everysquad
-has a devastator squad (that usually does in fact devastate) with 3 missle launchers and a plasma canon
-still finds room for a vet assasult squad with jump packs and several other troops
-usually has mephiston riding around by himself in a land raider
-sometimes uses termies with a chainfist and assault canon

That about sums it up, few more quick notes:

-Suggestions on how to model a Nurgley daemon prince or 2 with wings?
-Extra strategy Suggestions?
-Extra modeling suggestions?

Hey, one way of modeling a Nurgle Daemon Prince might be using Chaos Spawn as a base - you get two in a box and a great selection of Nurgle-y bits including a fly-head and lots of tentacles. Add in some bits from a box of Possessed (such as the winged back-packs) and maybe some green-stuff (Destroyer-Hive style tubes and maybe little green-stuff flies) and you'll have some kick-ass Princes.

With regard to them, may I suggest Nurgle's Rot instead of either Warp Time or Gift of Chaos? They can use it whether they or their victims are in combat, and it turns them into the epicenter of a 12" S3 AP- blast. That and it's characterful!

The points you'll save will be enough to put Twin-Linked Lascannons on a Predator (both if you can scratch up an extra two points), which will increase your range and anti-tank, while complementing the horde-raping disease-bombs that will be leading your force.

Nurgles rot is a must on nurgle demon princes.

It's quite a bit bigger than 12".

Your PM squads are too small. I'd give them meltas myself, you are quite short on anti-tank power.

The predators can never move and fire more than 1 weapon, this is bad. Obliterators are IMO always better.

The defiler doesn't fit the army. Drop it and buy more PM.

Stelek: You're correct, the 6" in all directions is measured from the Daemon Princes' 40mm+ base.

However, since the original poster has pointed out that he's not going to increase the size of his Plague Marine squads for religious reasons, so there's no point in suggesting that he do so.

Predators with Twin-Linked Lascannons and Heavy Bolter sponsons would be more mobile than the Obliterators, since they could move and fire all three weapons, be pretty flexible against whatever in the Space Marine armoury he might face. Going the Predator route means keeping the Defiler as bait is a good idea, something big and scary to suck up anti-tank fire. Some Extra Armour on the Predators won't go amiss either, and could be done with the points freed up by downgrading the Lascannon sponsons to Heavy Bolters.

Actually by ye olde fluff squads had to be a MULTIPLE of seven, so a squad of 14 could work.

I thank you guys for the quick responses and interesting idea's!

The only thing's that bothered me about my "pure" nurgle army were the fact that the raptors were never part of the selection and that nurgle's rot was certainly more well.. nurgley. However I felt that fast attack was necessary, but unfortunately didn't feel the same for rot. It's an interesting idea indeed, but I just can't seem to see how useful it would be versus space marines with toughness 4, perhaps something toughness 3 sure. But wouldn't it seem a bit more effective to gain an extra 1 or 2 saveless attacks each turn from warptime?

GoC is certainly negotiable, I just wanted to use it cus it's always fun to be able to mutate a sergeant or hq (if possible) and turn them on their own men eliminating not only the model but the points value as well (ie if they have a pfist, vet skills, etc). WoC is fun and it rules too, can't beat blastin a tank with it followed by 5 charged MC attacks.

Question is, has anyone used nurgle's rot vs space marines and is it really all that effective?

Also I'm not quite sure that I understand how it's 12" range, doesn't the book state it's 6"?

I just wanted to mention for reference my opponent's general army before whatever he's rebuilding:

-owns a vindicator but does not always use it
-likes razorbacks with lascanons A LOT
-has a tri-las predator
-has a lascannon or missle launcher in just about everysquad
-has a devastator squad (that usually does in fact devastate) with 3 missle launchers and a plasma canon
-still finds room for a vet assasult squad with jump packs and several other troops
-usually has mephiston riding around by himself in a land raider
-sometimes uses termies with a chainfist and assault canon

Certainly gave me more to think about, thanks again for any current or future replies!

Modeling suggestions for nurgley raptors maybe?

6" range measured from the base = more than 12" diameter.

You can easily give up Gift for Rot. Then you still have that reliable CC monster DP as well. GoC is really nothing essential, just a fun, flavourful power (but not as flavourful for this army as Rot).

Predators are more mobile than obliterators. Riiight.

If you are referring to the math of D6" vs 6", ok you win.

The game reality is of course far different.

Oblits > Predators every time, without question.

===================

So your opponent has marines with lascannons in every squad. That's every marine army.

If you are going to play nurgle, you are going to get punished by lots of S8 AP3 or better weapons.

Throw a bunch of plasma cannon shots at his troops. Unlike his move OR fire troops, you can move AND fire.

If you can't figure out how that's better mobility than pretty much everything else in the game, just let us know. We'll explain it.

I don't really think mobility will be too much of a problem, whereas my opponent will be mainly focused on the defiler, I can just park and shoot the 2 preds. Although obliterators are sweet as all hell I just don't think they'd stand up to the amount of instant death my opponent can dish out, whereas 13 front armor if it's lucky can bounce off a good many las shots.

However I was thinking about maybe dropping just Goc for nurgle's rot (keeping WT on the other DP), then swapping one predator out for a second "as is" defiler and giving the other pred tri las. This'll bring me to 1998 points (2 points anyone? <<obssessive compulsive lol). I realize my armor will be dropped by 1 but he'll have 2 two "primary" targets now, and I can park the pred and dish out 3 las shots every turn at anything that fires at the defilers, not to mention battle cannon the hell out of him.

BTW just realized defiler's get fleet, makes things a bit more interesting, especially with my dccw one! One of the main reasons I'm thinking about making this switch.. What do you all think?>

Defilers....suck. At 2000 points, they die first turn.

Give it a few playtests.

I rely on obliterators because while they have weaknesses, they keep firing until every last one is dead.

Not so with chaos vehicles. Not even the defiler.

What do you guys think about droppin a DP for typhus (force weapon I'm sure would be nice vs mephiston), and giving other nurgle's rot to even points out? That way one hq can lead the fast attack, and the other can lead the defensive "wall" of plague marines. Then last 5 points go to a personal icon if I ever want to deepstrike. Any ideas?

At this point I would say it's either that or I'm just gonna hafta give in and break my own rule and add 1 more raptor to each squad, give both DPs nurgle rot and all plague marine champs get a twin linked bolter for same amount of points (totals to 1998). Raptors are already blasphemous enough to grandfather nurgle in themselves ;D

So I guess it's really down to one or the other of those ideas. Thanks for posts so far really appreciated

Updated List ^ Thanks for infos and advice

Don't lose the Defiler. It's faster than the Obliterators, hits harder in combat, and B3 is irrelevant to its Battlecannon or any Heavy Flamethrower you may take (don't forget your smoke launchers!). Adding another one might be interesting.

I wouldn't recommend the Melta Bombs as well as the Power Fist since the Power Fist will have enough attacks to make up for its weaker armour-piecing. Ditching them should free up enough points for another Plasma Gun in the third Plague Marine squad.

Sigh. Such horrible advice.

The defiler is faster than the obliterators? Doesn't make sense.

Defilers get into close combat? Since when?

BS3 is irrelevant, till the other guy shoots off your battle cannon and you have to fleet across the table to get your heavy flamer into action. Great thinking there. :(

Typhus is a plague upon Chaos armies. Very expensive, doesn't do much of anything. Don't bring him over a Demon Prince.

My bad that 3rd squad does in fact have 2xplasma, just forgot to include the second, points add up the same. At this point I was just attempting to empty 15 points, it was a tossup between meltabombs and twin linked bolters for the aspiring champs.

As far as the defiler/obliterators go I can't see how an obliterator is faster as far as movement goes, you roll for rough terrain everytime, whereas with the defiler you get to move 6 inches and STILL shoot the battlecanon. Granted you add 1D6 to the scatter, but thats why you pick a heavily populated spot, meaning if you miss your target your bound to hit something. Not to mention with fleet you can move into positions of advantage and just park it much quicker. Not only that but a defiler has phenomenal tank crushing capabilities with BC (8+2D6) as well as MC attacks with 2 extra close combat weapons, if possible to get that close anyway..

Also BELIEVE ME when I say that defiler gets into close combat a lot as is (hence the double close combat weapons instead of heavy flamer/autocannon) It gets deepstriked by terminators amongst other models constantly, which is in fact, one of the things I'm counting on for strategic purposes: IE 1 PM squad stays behind and charges deepstrikers to "hold them up" defensively while the defiler charges in and pounds on em.

Obliterators most certainly have their advantages though, so do not think I'm going to count them out as an option. In fact I'm playing a game tomorrow, gonna be using a single DP with nurgle's rot, and a defiler AND obliterators to see how well they do before I actually compile this army.

Defilers getting into close combat...sigh.

Using them to kill deep striking terminators...oh boy.

No offense stelek but you havent given me much more than a few comments stating that I shouldn't use a defiler for this this and this, rather than giving me reasons as to why exactly. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the input it's just that I could use a little more insight as to why exactly you think that.

For instance all the scenario's I've given you so far on why I personally think the defiler would be better for my army, the major one being that I can use it as bait for certain targets of my own in close combat as well as long range.

Also I can't see how a defiler would be bad in close combat, they have 4 freaking arms for crying out loud lol (2ccw in profile + 2 extra ccw) thats what, 5 attacks on a charge? They're basically a dreadnought with more attacks AND a battlecanon. Not to mention it's specifically the reason why I would keep a squad back or rush raptors/DP in to help it kill termies off quickly which is a win no matter how you look at it. Especially if I get to use my raptors and DPs in close combat like they're meant to be used.

2 obliterators just won't have that attention draw as something that could potentially whipe out a whole squad of devastators with one shot or crack a tank with a max of 20 str on the roll. And yes I have whiped out an entire 7 man squad of devastators AND not destroyed, or exploded, but annihilated a land raider+crew! all in one game. Granted that was when it had BS4 tho LOL

I'm certainly open to reasons as to why I should use obliterators instead but so far I haven't really seen much more than a few comments.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Chaos_Army_Template

Read that. Answers lie within.

How do you figure str20? I dont even think you can explode a landraider with a battlecannon since you can only glance it on a 6.

Problem for defiler is that it will get smoked in round1, with armour 12 you are just a sitting duck as the rules are nowdays.

battlecanon is 8 str to start with + 1D6 (standard) + 1 more D6 since its an ordanance. Unless I read it wrong? Don't have rulebook with me atm unfortunately but if so that adds up to a total possibility of 20 str.

Also I'm reading the template as we speak, I take back what I said cmpletely as you do have some pretty well thought out and good advice

You read it wrong. You have to pick one of the rolls. You don't add them.

List updated yet again lol ^ :S

Yeesh, don't let people bully you into taking a cookie-cutter list. Take the Predators and the Defiler. The Defiler's Battlecannon still wounds on a 2+ on Blood Angel's Marines, with no save, and it only dies in the first turn if you're silly enough to deploy it in the open. I strongly suggest that you into the rules concerning how much terrain you should have on the board - it's much more than you might think!

Beerfiend wrote:List updated yet again lol ^ :S

The list looks pretty straightforward. Those lists are the best.
A tough list to beat, really.

Heavy support aside, would you guys say I'm better off droppin the 3rd PMs and lowering the DP to rot to free up 310 pts for a 2nd identical raptor squad?

If you want another raptor squad, why not?

You should experiment with it, and see how you like it.

yea i like the idea of another raptor squad. they can be quite nasty in the hands of the right people. now whether that'll be better for you or not depends on how you use em' playtest with some proxies for a while and find out what best suits your play style. then buy the models

Playtested with a few models last night as obliterators and raptors to see how well an army like this would do and it worked out beautifully, everything happened exactly as I had hoped. Except the obliterators I made a severely poor decision with (charged em into a bottleneck with 4 last canons aimed at em) but at this point the game was practically mine.

Unfortunately it was only a 1k point game though, so I literally cut everything in half which doesn't quite work with the obliterators since they're now in either squads of 1 or 1 squad of 3. Ended up with 1 dp, 1 10xraptor squad, 1 10xplague marine squad, 3xobliterators.

In the first few turns my plague marines were charged by mephiston (just as I had hoped), and although it may have been a case of bad dice rolls on my opponents side, he didn't land a single blow and was then slaughtered by my power fist and a charged DP (not so tough after all? ;D) Followed by a near massacre of the 10 man assault squad following him by my rapid fire and DP.

My raptors then proceeded to take out of all his long range which consisted of a 10man squad with 2 las canon, and a meltabomb'd(fun toy!) predator. All while my obliterators marched to their doom (slaps forehead).

Nurgle's rot killed 2 marines.

Unfortunately it ended in a draw simpley because I had to leave, but I'm quite confident I would have whiped him off the table.

All in all I think it's a perfect list for how I like to play

I'm not sure what's so bad about the Oblits being in squads of one. That's perfect, actually.

Congrats on what should have been a win.

Was just wondering what ya guys think about the raptor champs, have 2x lightning claws as it is, but do you think power fists would be more effective?