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I hope it's competitive anyway. I've never run a List like this, but I'm tired of setting up 100+ models for a SIGAFH approach. If it looks familiar I spent a couple days trolling and looking at some of the other guard lists, particularly one of stelek's lists which inspired the core of this army. What I'm wondering is what major problems this list might run into, and if I should replace some more of the vet's plasma guns with meltaguns.



Doctrines
Drop troops
Light infantry
Special Weapon Squads
Veterans


[HQ]
Schaeffer
Kage
20x Last Chancers specialists w/ plasma guns
The Last Chancer's fill 2 troop FOC slots

SO
4x flamers
Light infantry
Drop troops

2xCatachan pattern sentinels
Drop troops

Speacial Weapons Squad
Demolition charge
2x flamers
Light infantry
Drop troops
Speacial Weapons Squad
Demolition charge
2x flamers
Light infantry
Drop troops

[Elites]
5xVeterans w/ plasmaguns
Drop troops
5xVeterans w/ plasmaguns
Drop troops
5xVeterans w/ plasmaguns
Drop troops

[Fast Attack]
Hellhound
Hellhound
Hellhound

[Heavy Support]
Demolisher
3xHeavy Bolters
Demolisher
3xHeavy Bolters
Demolisher
3xHeavy Bolters

Leman Russes are just as good vs 90% of the stuff out there, cost 10 points less, don't eat every lascannon on the board until dead, and don't have to be within 24" of the enemy to fire their main gun.

The hellhounds should have EA. They will always be stunned if they aren't destroyed, and they'll block your LOS for your LR when you don't want them to.

Having improved comms on at least one vehicle is highly recommended. Two really helps.

The sentinels don't do much for you in an army like this except (A) give people a place to charge and hide in CC, or (B) give people a place to create some terrain and hide from your shooting. Don't bring 'em.

If SO means senior officer, don't bring a SO. He's useless in a list like this.

I'd drop the demo charges (you don't really need them and they're not really scary anyway) and bring more flamers. Flamers, plasmas, heavy bolters, meltas. I'd run the command squad with sharpshooters and 3xmeltaguns +1 flamer so you can zap tanks and maybe some infantry if you are lucky.

I know it might make it a copy of my lists, but I played it alot and learned what was needed. Besides, it's easy enough to playtest things and see how you like it.

There's nothing wrong with Demolishers, especially when you've got 3 of them.

Anyway, I hate special characters in general, so armies based around them I like even less, but wouldn't it be a good idea to give some of those Specialists a Meltagun, just for some extra tank killing power?

Those 20 Plasma Gunners will also kill themselves over time, so might as well put some guns in that won't explode.

BYE

Just in case ya don't know how the LC work, you usually split them up into 5 groups of 4 and add the special characters to whichever group you want. You could run more meltas, but given 4th editions relative lack of serious armor armies...usually 1 melta unit is enough and the plasmas can handle all the AV12 stuff if they need to.

the sentinels are really useless here, they act at most as a pin in the opponents side. make the senior officer a junior, and drop the special weapon teams, to add some guard basic units to the list. those extra bodies and special weapons could end up really helping in some games

Why are the sentinels so useless? I assume he's just dropping them in to use the heavy flamer, which seems like a fine idea to me. They'd be dumb to start on the board, but as drop troops it's a fairly inexpensive way to get a good anti-horde weapon on the board. Sure they're easy to blow up, but is a 5-man vet squad in rapid fire range of the enemy any tougher?

I'm curious to see how well the tanks survive the first turn or two if they're alone on the board. I don't bring tanks to games normally (they just seem too fragile to me) and not having any fire support for (potentially) 2 turns seems risky.

Stelek wrote:Just in case ya don't know how the LC work...

Stelek I could recite the Guard Codex to you with one hand tied behind my back... umm... I'm not exactly saw what tying my hand up would do, but you get what I mean.

In any case, I'm no stranger to the Last Chancers, I just tend to dismiss armies that rely on special characters out of hand. They're gimmick armies, whether they work or not. They work on potential, and I perfer to be consistent in everything I do.

That said, given the fact that most vehicles in 40K aren't AV14/14/14, there isn't anything particulary wrong with that many Plasma Guns. Side and rear shots should cover it. I guess this army would give 'Zilla 'Nids a headache. How much AP2 firepower wounding on a 3+?

BYE

The Sentinels are also scoring units and can be anywhere he needs them to be. Remember that.

BYE

Hey, thanks for all the responses and the once over on the list. After looking over everyone's suggestions I've made some small changes to the core list but the final bit is being a real pain.


Doctrines
Drop troops
Light infantry
Veterans
Special Weapon Squads or
Grenadiers



[HQ]
Schaeffer
Kage
20x Last Chancers specialists w/ plasma guns
The Last Chancer's fill 2 troop FOC slots

JO
4x flamers
Light infantry
Drop troops

[Elites]
5xVeterans w/ plasma guns
Drop troops
5xVeterans w/ plasma guns
Drop troops
5xVeterans w/ Meltaguns
Drop troops

[Fast Attack]
Hellhound w/ Extra Armour
Hellhound w/ Extra Armour
Hellhound w/ Extra Armour

[Heavy Support]
Demolisher
-3xHeavy Bolters
-Extra Armour
Demolisher
-3xHeavy Bolters
-Extra Armour
Leman Russ
-3xHeavy Bolters
-Improved Comms

At this point I like what I see and have a little under 200 points left, and I've come up with two choices that seem ok, not great but not real bad.

4 grenadiers
-Vet. Srg.
-Plasma pistol
-2 plasma guns

Chimera
-Multilaser
-Heavy Bolter
-Storm Bolter
-Extra armour
-Smoke

OR

Special Weapons Squad
3 flamers
Light infantry
Drop troops

2 Armageddon Pattern Sentinels (Lascannons)
Drop troops

Do either of the last fit well to you all, or is there something I can change that could free up points for something else?

i like the list a lot more than the first. it's got plenty of vehicles, and nasty guys who can take lots of stuff out on their own, plasma being good at ant tank and MEQ's. for the second part to make up the extra points i think that the second option would work much better as the special weapons will be quite nice vs. nids and such, and the sentinels (even though i don't like em' could end up doing quite well)

Drop some of the Last Chancers. It's most effective to take them as an HQ choice and a single Troops choice.

I think it could be extremely nasty, however if you cant deep strike you are screwed.